Quote
Topi
No worries. We got Macca on board now. The guiding light.

Well if I was not uneasy before, I'm certainly uneasy now! Macca, bless him, is not cut from the same cloth as The Stones. Yes he has written some sublime music, then he does stuff like Mull of Kintyre, Ebony & Ivory, The Girl Is Mine. So his presence alone, if he was PHYSICALLY there at all, and didn't just phone in his contribution electronically, is hardly a guarantee of quality. To me the fact his name keeps getting dropped into conversations by Stones insiders makes me think the album needs some kind of external boost to generate a positive response. In other words it may not stand on its own two feet.

But actually all of this, including my own contribution here, is just background chatter. None of us KNOW. None of us have HEARD the music. Or any excerpts from the contents. So, as has been said with beautiful simple directness by others here...RELEASE IT! Stop faffing about and release it. You don't need to wait until the tour starts. The tour will sell out regardless. Any momentary boost the ticket sales get will have disappeared after the first day of album release.

By week two it will have disappeared from the charts again.And be forgotten by almost everyone, except us here...

Quote
lem motlow
The good thing to me is they knew when to stop and hopefully did an autopsy on the last few records.
Mick had clearly lost his fckng mind at some point. He actually said “ it can’t be that hard playing bass in The Rolling Stones” when Bill left.I thought he was joking but he PLAYED BASS on about five songs!
In his defense he thought what was released as Bigger Bang ( that sounds like the title of a WHAM album) was demos.

Jagger was heading to the studio when Was and Keith told him this half baked mess was it, they were done.does Don Was have some sort of blackmail material on the band? It’s the only reason I can think of why he’s allowed near them.

10 songs, the best ones you got, don’t brick wall the shit out of them. That’s it.
You don’t have to “give us more because it’s been so long” 10 songs we’ll be fine.

I agree on the 10 songs remark. For the rest, it was never unusual for band members to switch instruments before, plus the fact simply is that Bill wasn't a member anymore at the time ABB was recorded. Also, where does this story that Mick wanted to record (re-record?) the "half baked mess", the "demos", come from? It may be true, I'm just asking.

Speaking of ABB, I for one liked the fact that it offered more of a classic, stripped down sound, with less extra people on it, like in the old days, instead of the extensive arrangements of the 'Vegas' sound.
Sound quality, hmm, but, I mean, we wouldn't call the songs on Some Girls demos either, or criticize it for having a sh*tty sound, would we? Or else we better listen to Dire Straits instead (g*d forbid ), but I think sound quality was never what the Stones were about.

But ABB being what it is, I do have some confidence that the new album will have a number of good songs on it so I'm not at all doomy & gloomy about it (yep, play on words there, isn't it fun?).

Quote
emotionalbarbecue
Rolling Stones is a gigantic freight train traveling at full speed. This train has always traveled on a rail named Bill Wyman and Charlie Watts. (Keith being the propeller on stage and so on).

No Bill and no Charlie means what you may imply.

Mick and Keith know it. But they may be thinkning "why should we stop anyway? should we stay at home watching tv?".



Besides in that train travelled Brian, Taylor, Booby Keys, Ian Stewart, Nicky Hopkins...

Do we have any pix of this Booby Keys??? I'd very much love to see a pic or two. Wonder if she's as divine as Baby Jane......

Quote
VoodooLounge13

Quote
emotionalbarbecue
Rolling Stones is a gigantic freight train traveling at full speed. This train has always traveled on a rail named Bill Wyman and Charlie Watts. (Keith being the propeller on stage and so on).

No Bill and no Charlie means what you may imply.

Mick and Keith know it. But they may be thinkning "why should we stop anyway? should we stay at home watching tv?".



Besides in that train travelled Brian, Taylor, Booby Keys, Ian Stewart, Nicky Hopkins...

Do we have any pix of this Booby Keys??? I'd very much love to see a pic or two. Wonder if she's as divine as Baby Jane......

Those pictures belong to my private collection.

They paid hush money to Booby?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2023-04-10 22:49 by doitywoik.

Quote
SomeGuy

Quote
lem motlow
The good thing to me is they knew when to stop and hopefully did an autopsy on the last few records.
Mick had clearly lost his fckng mind at some point. He actually said “ it can’t be that hard playing bass in The Rolling Stones” when Bill left.I thought he was joking but he PLAYED BASS on about five songs!
In his defense he thought what was released as Bigger Bang ( that sounds like the title of a WHAM album) was demos.

Jagger was heading to the studio when Was and Keith told him this half baked mess was it, they were done.does Don Was have some sort of blackmail material on the band? It’s the only reason I can think of why he’s allowed near them.

10 songs, the best ones you got, don’t brick wall the shit out of them. That’s it.
You don’t have to “give us more because it’s been so long” 10 songs we’ll be fine.

I agree on the 10 songs remark. For the rest, it was never unusual for band members to switch instruments before, plus the fact simply is that Bill wasn't a member anymore at the time ABB was recorded. Also, where does this story that Mick wanted to record (re-record?) the "half baked mess", the "demos", come from? It may be true, I'm just asking.

Speaking of ABB, I for one liked the fact that it offered more of a classic, stripped down sound, with less extra people on it, like in the old days, instead of the extensive arrangements of the 'Vegas' sound.
Sound quality, hmm, but, I mean, we wouldn't call the songs on Some Girls demos either, or criticize it for having a sh*tty sound, would we? Or else we better listen to Dire Straits instead (g*d forbid ), but I think sound quality was never what the Stones were about.

But ABB being what it is, I do have some confidence that the new album will have a number of good songs on it so I'm not at all doomy & gloomy about it (yep, play on words there, isn't it fun?).

Here's one source regarding Mick wanting to take what they recorded at his house and go into a studio:

Only Mick still thinks you have to take things into "real" recording studios to really make a real record. He got proved totally wrong on our latest - at the time of writing - album, A Bigger Bang, especially, because we did it all in his little château in France. We had got the stuff worked up, and he said, Now we'll take it into a real recording studio. And Don Was and I looked at each other, and Charlie looked at me... @#$%& this shit. We've already got it down right here. Why do you want to spring for all that bread? So you can say it was cut in so-and-so studio, the glass wall and the control room? We ain't going nowhere, pal. So finally he relented.
- Keith Richards, Life (2010)

[timeisonourside.com]

C'mon Stones! We need this album!!!

Steven Wright: “The Stones, they are great, I can’t believe they’ve been doing it after all these years ... Fred and Barney.”

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GasLightStreet

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SomeGuy

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lem motlow
The good thing to me is they knew when to stop and hopefully did an autopsy on the last few records.
Mick had clearly lost his fckng mind at some point. He actually said “ it can’t be that hard playing bass in The Rolling Stones” when Bill left.I thought he was joking but he PLAYED BASS on about five songs!
In his defense he thought what was released as Bigger Bang ( that sounds like the title of a WHAM album) was demos.

Jagger was heading to the studio when Was and Keith told him this half baked mess was it, they were done.does Don Was have some sort of blackmail material on the band? It’s the only reason I can think of why he’s allowed near them.

10 songs, the best ones you got, don’t brick wall the shit out of them. That’s it.
You don’t have to “give us more because it’s been so long” 10 songs we’ll be fine.

I agree on the 10 songs remark. For the rest, it was never unusual for band members to switch instruments before, plus the fact simply is that Bill wasn't a member anymore at the time ABB was recorded. Also, where does this story that Mick wanted to record (re-record?) the "half baked mess", the "demos", come from? It may be true, I'm just asking.

Speaking of ABB, I for one liked the fact that it offered more of a classic, stripped down sound, with less extra people on it, like in the old days, instead of the extensive arrangements of the 'Vegas' sound.
Sound quality, hmm, but, I mean, we wouldn't call the songs on Some Girls demos either, or criticize it for having a sh*tty sound, would we? Or else we better listen to Dire Straits instead (g*d forbid ), but I think sound quality was never what the Stones were about.

But ABB being what it is, I do have some confidence that the new album will have a number of good songs on it so I'm not at all doomy & gloomy about it (yep, play on words there, isn't it fun?).

Here's one source regarding Mick wanting to take what they recorded at his house and go into a studio:

Only Mick still thinks you have to take things into "real" recording studios to really make a real record. He got proved totally wrong on our latest - at the time of writing - album, A Bigger Bang, especially, because we did it all in his little château in France. We had got the stuff worked up, and he said, Now we'll take it into a real recording studio. And Don Was and I looked at each other, and Charlie looked at me... @#$%& this shit. We've already got it down right here. Why do you want to spring for all that bread? So you can say it was cut in so-and-so studio, the glass wall and the control room? We ain't going nowhere, pal. So finally he relented.
- Keith Richards, Life (2010)

[timeisonourside.com]

As far as I know, this quote by Keith is the only source for such a claim. There surely is some truth there, but it would be interesting to know at which point Mick suggested the idea (or was he really initially seeing those sessions at his place just writing and demo sessions). And how much the final result had changed if they had done it? I mean, would they had re-recorded the whole lot, or just over-dubbing a bit the already recorded backing tracks?

Anyway, when he was promoting the album Mick seemingly supported Keith's vision:

We did this record with minimal technology, just suitcases of computers. I didn't want to go into a massive glass-and-stone $10 million studio with all the bells and whistles. All that technology can change the way you play. We pared it down, and the intimacy worked.
- Mick Jagger, July 2005

Anyway, in regard to Lem's observation about Mick's careless attitude to bass playing, I just find out the following remark by Mick amusing:

I did play some bass. I've never done that before. I kept looking at it and going, Four strings, that can't be that difficult. Ha! So that was all interesting
- Mick Jagger, August 2005



- Doxa



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2023-04-12 14:37 by Doxa.

I think the only significiant thing in Steven's casual comment (I am a bit late in the party) was that it confirms again that the album is in the can and ready to go. People in business now freely talk about it and refer to it as it being an existing fact. This was not the case some months ago.

That of him saying it being "pretty good" according to someone can mean anything. And actually means nothing.

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-04-12 15:28 by Doxa.

Quote
Doxa
I think the only significiant thing in Steven's casual comment (I am a bit late in the party) was that it confirms again that the album is in the can and ready to go. People in business now freely talk about it and refer to it as it being an existing fact. This was not the case some months ago.

That of him saying it being "pretty good" according to someone can mean anything. And actually means nothing.

- Doxa

Except for the tweet about the new Stones album being amazing a little less than a year ago or so. Can't remember who tweeted this, but it might have been one of the producers.

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DandelionPowderman

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Doxa
I think the only significiant thing in Steven's casual comment (I am a bit late in the party) was that it confirms again that the album is in the can and ready to go. People in business now freely talk about it and refer to it as it being an existing fact. This was not the case some months ago.

That of him saying it being "pretty good" according to someone can mean anything. And actually means nothing.

- Doxa

Except for the tweet about the new Stones album being amazing a little less than a year ago or so. Can't remember who tweeted this, but it might have been one of the producers.

I have missed that, I think. But there've been sessions since then, so who knows how complete the album was at the time (of course, we do not know that exactly either now).

But what is positive and important is that we have seemingly gone a long road since the days of "Don't hold your breath" and "It's early stages yet"...

- Doxa

By the way, Mick's been pretty quiet for some time. But the last thing we know is that he's been thinking about album covers...

- Doxa

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Doxa

By the way, Mick's been pretty quiet for some time.

It's the silence before the storm ....

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Doxa

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GasLightStreet

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SomeGuy

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lem motlow
The good thing to me is they knew when to stop and hopefully did an autopsy on the last few records.
Mick had clearly lost his fckng mind at some point. He actually said “ it can’t be that hard playing bass in The Rolling Stones” when Bill left.I thought he was joking but he PLAYED BASS on about five songs!
In his defense he thought what was released as Bigger Bang ( that sounds like the title of a WHAM album) was demos.

Jagger was heading to the studio when Was and Keith told him this half baked mess was it, they were done.does Don Was have some sort of blackmail material on the band? It’s the only reason I can think of why he’s allowed near them.

10 songs, the best ones you got, don’t brick wall the shit out of them. That’s it.
You don’t have to “give us more because it’s been so long” 10 songs we’ll be fine.

I agree on the 10 songs remark. For the rest, it was never unusual for band members to switch instruments before, plus the fact simply is that Bill wasn't a member anymore at the time ABB was recorded. Also, where does this story that Mick wanted to record (re-record?) the "half baked mess", the "demos", come from? It may be true, I'm just asking.

Speaking of ABB, I for one liked the fact that it offered more of a classic, stripped down sound, with less extra people on it, like in the old days, instead of the extensive arrangements of the 'Vegas' sound.
Sound quality, hmm, but, I mean, we wouldn't call the songs on Some Girls demos either, or criticize it for having a sh*tty sound, would we? Or else we better listen to Dire Straits instead (g*d forbid ), but I think sound quality was never what the Stones were about.

But ABB being what it is, I do have some confidence that the new album will have a number of good songs on it so I'm not at all doomy & gloomy about it (yep, play on words there, isn't it fun?).

Here's one source regarding Mick wanting to take what they recorded at his house and go into a studio:

Only Mick still thinks you have to take things into "real" recording studios to really make a real record. He got proved totally wrong on our latest - at the time of writing - album, A Bigger Bang, especially, because we did it all in his little château in France. We had got the stuff worked up, and he said, Now we'll take it into a real recording studio. And Don Was and I looked at each other, and Charlie looked at me... @#$%& this shit. We've already got it down right here. Why do you want to spring for all that bread? So you can say it was cut in so-and-so studio, the glass wall and the control room? We ain't going nowhere, pal. So finally he relented.
- Keith Richards, Life (2010)

[timeisonourside.com]

As far as I know, this quote by Keith is the only source for such a claim. There surely is some truth there, but it would be interesting to know at which point Mick suggested the idea (or was he really initially seeing those sessions at his place just writing and demo sessions). And how much the final result had changed if they had done it? I mean, would they had re-recorded the whole lot, or just over-dubbing a bit the already recorded backing tracks?

Anyway, when he was promoting the album Mick seemingly supported Keith's vision:

We did this record with minimal technology, just suitcases of computers. I didn't want to go into a massive glass-and-stone $10 million studio with all the bells and whistles. All that technology can change the way you play. We pared it down, and the intimacy worked.
- Mick Jagger, July 2005

Anyway, in regard to Lem's observation about Mick's careless attitude to bass playing, I just find out the following remark by Mick amusing:

I did play some bass. I've never done that before. I kept looking at it and going, Four strings, that can't be that difficult. Ha! So that was all interesting
- Mick Jagger, August 2005



- Doxa

I don't see anything strange about it, these are things that happen in a band, I don't understand what surprises us.
I'm not ruling out that it also happened with material brought in by Keith, it's in the logic of a band to bring in material that the person who made it considers it excellent and to a "new" ear sounds ugly.

Quote
Testify

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Doxa

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GasLightStreet

Quote
SomeGuy

Quote
lem motlow
The good thing to me is they knew when to stop and hopefully did an autopsy on the last few records.
Mick had clearly lost his fckng mind at some point. He actually said “ it can’t be that hard playing bass in The Rolling Stones” when Bill left.I thought he was joking but he PLAYED BASS on about five songs!
In his defense he thought what was released as Bigger Bang ( that sounds like the title of a WHAM album) was demos.

Jagger was heading to the studio when Was and Keith told him this half baked mess was it, they were done.does Don Was have some sort of blackmail material on the band? It’s the only reason I can think of why he’s allowed near them.

10 songs, the best ones you got, don’t brick wall the shit out of them. That’s it.
You don’t have to “give us more because it’s been so long” 10 songs we’ll be fine.

I agree on the 10 songs remark. For the rest, it was never unusual for band members to switch instruments before, plus the fact simply is that Bill wasn't a member anymore at the time ABB was recorded. Also, where does this story that Mick wanted to record (re-record?) the "half baked mess", the "demos", come from? It may be true, I'm just asking.

Speaking of ABB, I for one liked the fact that it offered more of a classic, stripped down sound, with less extra people on it, like in the old days, instead of the extensive arrangements of the 'Vegas' sound.
Sound quality, hmm, but, I mean, we wouldn't call the songs on Some Girls demos either, or criticize it for having a sh*tty sound, would we? Or else we better listen to Dire Straits instead (g*d forbid ), but I think sound quality was never what the Stones were about.

But ABB being what it is, I do have some confidence that the new album will have a number of good songs on it so I'm not at all doomy & gloomy about it (yep, play on words there, isn't it fun?).

Here's one source regarding Mick wanting to take what they recorded at his house and go into a studio:

Only Mick still thinks you have to take things into "real" recording studios to really make a real record. He got proved totally wrong on our latest - at the time of writing - album, A Bigger Bang, especially, because we did it all in his little château in France. We had got the stuff worked up, and he said, Now we'll take it into a real recording studio. And Don Was and I looked at each other, and Charlie looked at me... @#$%& this shit. We've already got it down right here. Why do you want to spring for all that bread? So you can say it was cut in so-and-so studio, the glass wall and the control room? We ain't going nowhere, pal. So finally he relented.
- Keith Richards, Life (2010)

[timeisonourside.com]

As far as I know, this quote by Keith is the only source for such a claim. There surely is some truth there, but it would be interesting to know at which point Mick suggested the idea (or was he really initially seeing those sessions at his place just writing and demo sessions). And how much the final result had changed if they had done it? I mean, would they had re-recorded the whole lot, or just over-dubbing a bit the already recorded backing tracks?

Anyway, when he was promoting the album Mick seemingly supported Keith's vision:

We did this record with minimal technology, just suitcases of computers. I didn't want to go into a massive glass-and-stone $10 million studio with all the bells and whistles. All that technology can change the way you play. We pared it down, and the intimacy worked.
- Mick Jagger, July 2005

Anyway, in regard to Lem's observation about Mick's careless attitude to bass playing, I just find out the following remark by Mick amusing:

I did play some bass. I've never done that before. I kept looking at it and going, Four strings, that can't be that difficult. Ha! So that was all interesting
- Mick Jagger, August 2005



- Doxa

I don't see anything strange about it, these are things that happen in a band, I don't understand what surprises us.
I'm not ruling out that it also happened with material brought in by Keith, it's in the logic of a band to bring in material that the person who made it considers it excellent and to a "new" ear sounds ugly.

Quite often the person who brought it in will think it sounds "ugly" after a while, too

Quote
GasLightStreet

Quote
SomeGuy

Quote
lem motlow
The good thing to me is they knew when to stop and hopefully did an autopsy on the last few records.
Mick had clearly lost his fckng mind at some point. He actually said “ it can’t be that hard playing bass in The Rolling Stones” when Bill left.I thought he was joking but he PLAYED BASS on about five songs!
In his defense he thought what was released as Bigger Bang ( that sounds like the title of a WHAM album) was demos.

Jagger was heading to the studio when Was and Keith told him this half baked mess was it, they were done.does Don Was have some sort of blackmail material on the band? It’s the only reason I can think of why he’s allowed near them.

10 songs, the best ones you got, don’t brick wall the shit out of them. That’s it.
You don’t have to “give us more because it’s been so long” 10 songs we’ll be fine.

I agree on the 10 songs remark. For the rest, it was never unusual for band members to switch instruments before, plus the fact simply is that Bill wasn't a member anymore at the time ABB was recorded. Also, where does this story that Mick wanted to record (re-record?) the "half baked mess", the "demos", come from? It may be true, I'm just asking.

Speaking of ABB, I for one liked the fact that it offered more of a classic, stripped down sound, with less extra people on it, like in the old days, instead of the extensive arrangements of the 'Vegas' sound.
Sound quality, hmm, but, I mean, we wouldn't call the songs on Some Girls demos either, or criticize it for having a sh*tty sound, would we? Or else we better listen to Dire Straits instead (g*d forbid ), but I think sound quality was never what the Stones were about.

But ABB being what it is, I do have some confidence that the new album will have a number of good songs on it so I'm not at all doomy & gloomy about it (yep, play on words there, isn't it fun?).

Here's one source regarding Mick wanting to take what they recorded at his house and go into a studio:

Only Mick still thinks you have to take things into "real" recording studios to really make a real record. He got proved totally wrong on our latest - at the time of writing - album, A Bigger Bang, especially, because we did it all in his little château in France. We had got the stuff worked up, and he said, Now we'll take it into a real recording studio. And Don Was and I looked at each other, and Charlie looked at me... @#$%& this shit. We've already got it down right here. Why do you want to spring for all that bread? So you can say it was cut in so-and-so studio, the glass wall and the control room? We ain't going nowhere, pal. So finally he relented.
- Keith Richards, Life (2010)

[timeisonourside.com]

Thanks for clearing that up. I even own the book, but apparently it didn't register...

Quote
GasLightStreet


Here's one source regarding Mick wanting to take what they recorded at his house and go into a studio:

Only Mick still thinks you have to take things into "real" recording studios to really make a real record. He got proved totally wrong on our latest - at the time of writing - album, A Bigger Bang, especially, because we did it all in his little château in France. We had got the stuff worked up, and he said, Now we'll take it into a real recording studio. And Don Was and I looked at each other, and Charlie looked at me... @#$%& this shit. We've already got it down right here. Why do you want to spring for all that bread? So you can say it was cut in so-and-so studio, the glass wall and the control room? We ain't going nowhere, pal. So finally he relented.
- Keith Richards, Life (2010)

[timeisonourside.com]

Keith sounds like he's overselling how cool that method was as if he actually knows that sonically, it's a hard sell. When someone says "we ain't going nowhere" that usually means something different

Quote
Nikkei

Quote
GasLightStreet


Here's one source regarding Mick wanting to take what they recorded at his house and go into a studio:

Only Mick still thinks you have to take things into "real" recording studios to really make a real record. He got proved totally wrong on our latest - at the time of writing - album, A Bigger Bang, especially, because we did it all in his little château in France. We had got the stuff worked up, and he said, Now we'll take it into a real recording studio. And Don Was and I looked at each other, and Charlie looked at me... @#$%& this shit. We've already got it down right here. Why do you want to spring for all that bread? So you can say it was cut in so-and-so studio, the glass wall and the control room? We ain't going nowhere, pal. So finally he relented.
- Keith Richards, Life (2010)

[timeisonourside.com]

Keith sounds like he's overselling how cool that method was as if he actually knows that sonically, it's a hard sell. When someone says "we ain't going nowhere" that usually means something different

Well, that's my impression as well. It is pretty hard to understand what Keith is actually trying to say there, other that he is bashing Mick there (a constant theme of the book). To me it doesn't sound it is anything about sonical matters at all: only that Mick - and only him - is so vain that he just wants to work in a fancy 'real' studio an sich, despite it not, as Keith seem to maintain, mattering to the final result at all.

When I looked those A BIGGER BANG related quotes on timeisonourside.com it looks like that what Keith is selling there is another EXILE myth, A BIGGER BANG being EXILE VOL 2. The same intimate French magic happening this time at Mick's place as it once happened in Nellcote. And like it all happened there in those archaic cirmustances - as EXILE myth says - and not counting, say, the highly important and inspired LA over-dubbing and mixing sessions in regard to EXILE that gave the album its final killer form (based on raw material from Nellcote, Stargroves and Olympic Studios). But simplifying things and editing 'non-essential' out makes a good story, right? Who knows if in reality Mick had something similar in mind if Keith's words are ringing true. That of 'okay, let's take this pretty raw material out and see what we can do with it'. But seemingly the others were pretty content with the stuff already in the can - or lazy - and Mick okayed it.

But as far I am concerned, A BIGGER BANG material sounds a bit half-baked and underworked. Sometimes being 'raw' is a real strenght, but I am afraid that is not the case here. So in my book Keith is actually shooting his own feet there when trying to make Mick look bad. What A BIGGER BANG prove was that Mick was right.

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2023-04-12 20:43 by Doxa.

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Doxa

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Nikkei

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GasLightStreet


Here's one source regarding Mick wanting to take what they recorded at his house and go into a studio:

Only Mick still thinks you have to take things into "real" recording studios to really make a real record. He got proved totally wrong on our latest - at the time of writing - album, A Bigger Bang, especially, because we did it all in his little château in France. We had got the stuff worked up, and he said, Now we'll take it into a real recording studio. And Don Was and I looked at each other, and Charlie looked at me... @#$%& this shit. We've already got it down right here. Why do you want to spring for all that bread? So you can say it was cut in so-and-so studio, the glass wall and the control room? We ain't going nowhere, pal. So finally he relented.
- Keith Richards, Life (2010)

[timeisonourside.com]

Keith sounds like he's overselling how cool that method was as if he actually knows that sonically, it's a hard sell. When someone says "we ain't going nowhere" that usually means something different

Well, that's my impression as well. It is pretty hard to understand what Keith is actually trying to say there, other that he is bashing Mick there (a constant theme of the book). To me it doesn't sound it is anything about sonical matters at all: only that Mick - and only him - is so vain that he just wants to work in a fancy 'real' studio an sich, despite it not, as Keith seem to maintain, mattering to the final result at all.

When I looked those A BIGGER BANG related quotes on timeisonourside.com it looks like that what Keith is selling there is another EXILE myth, A BIGGER BANG being EXILE VOL 2. The same intimate French magic happening this time at Mick's place as it once happened in Nellcote. And like it all happened there in those archaic cirmustances - as EXILE myth says - and not counting, say, the highly important and inspired LA over-dubbing and mixing sessions in regard to EXILE that gave the album its final killer form (based on raw material from Nellcote, Stargroves and Olympic Studios). But simplifying things and editing 'non-essential' out makes a good story, right? Who knows if in reality Mick had something similar in mind if Keith's words are ringing true. That of 'okay, let's take this pretty raw material out and see what we can do with it'. But seemingly the others were pretty content with the stuff already in the can - or lazy - and Mick okayed it.

But as far I am concerned, A BIGGER BANG material sounds a bit half-baked and underworked. Sometimes being 'raw' is a real strenght, but I am afraid that is not the case here. So in my book Keith is actually shooting his own feet there when trying to make Mick look bad. What A BIGGER BANG prove was that Mick was right.

- Doxa

And at the time, it was 8 years since the last album. EIGHT YEARS...and eternity. Mick probably was just happy to get it and get it done and capitulated to the pressure.

I like a lot of the material, not all of it, but agree that some additional studio wizardry could only have helped.

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treaclefingers

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Doxa

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Nikkei

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GasLightStreet


Here's one source regarding Mick wanting to take what they recorded at his house and go into a studio:

Only Mick still thinks you have to take things into "real" recording studios to really make a real record. He got proved totally wrong on our latest - at the time of writing - album, A Bigger Bang, especially, because we did it all in his little château in France. We had got the stuff worked up, and he said, Now we'll take it into a real recording studio. And Don Was and I looked at each other, and Charlie looked at me... @#$%& this shit. We've already got it down right here. Why do you want to spring for all that bread? So you can say it was cut in so-and-so studio, the glass wall and the control room? We ain't going nowhere, pal. So finally he relented.
- Keith Richards, Life (2010)

[timeisonourside.com]

Keith sounds like he's overselling how cool that method was as if he actually knows that sonically, it's a hard sell. When someone says "we ain't going nowhere" that usually means something different

Well, that's my impression as well. It is pretty hard to understand what Keith is actually trying to say there, other that he is bashing Mick there (a constant theme of the book). To me it doesn't sound it is anything about sonical matters at all: only that Mick - and only him - is so vain that he just wants to work in a fancy 'real' studio an sich, despite it not, as Keith seem to maintain, mattering to the final result at all.

When I looked those A BIGGER BANG related quotes on timeisonourside.com it looks like that what Keith is selling there is another EXILE myth, A BIGGER BANG being EXILE VOL 2. The same intimate French magic happening this time at Mick's place as it once happened in Nellcote. And like it all happened there in those archaic cirmustances - as EXILE myth says - and not counting, say, the highly important and inspired LA over-dubbing and mixing sessions in regard to EXILE that gave the album its final killer form (based on raw material from Nellcote, Stargroves and Olympic Studios). But simplifying things and editing 'non-essential' out makes a good story, right? Who knows if in reality Mick had something similar in mind if Keith's words are ringing true. That of 'okay, let's take this pretty raw material out and see what we can do with it'. But seemingly the others were pretty content with the stuff already in the can - or lazy - and Mick okayed it.

But as far I am concerned, A BIGGER BANG material sounds a bit half-baked and underworked. Sometimes being 'raw' is a real strenght, but I am afraid that is not the case here. So in my book Keith is actually shooting his own feet there when trying to make Mick look bad. What A BIGGER BANG prove was that Mick was right.

- Doxa

And at the time, it was 8 years since the last album. EIGHT YEARS...and eternity. Mick probably was just happy to get it and get it done and capitulated to the pressure.

I like a lot of the material, not all of it, but agree that some additional studio wizardry could only have helped.

In my minority view, "Sweet Neo Con", while I quite like it, I consider it especially as half-finished, "Streets of Love", in contrast to live versions for instance in Rome, does not sound right, and "Back of My Hand", despite quite good, does come over as somewhat sterile. Those songs most of all could have profitted by a rerecording, I think. But not only those.

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Witness

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treaclefingers

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Doxa

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Nikkei

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GasLightStreet


Here's one source regarding Mick wanting to take what they recorded at his house and go into a studio:

Only Mick still thinks you have to take things into "real" recording studios to really make a real record. He got proved totally wrong on our latest - at the time of writing - album, A Bigger Bang, especially, because we did it all in his little château in France. We had got the stuff worked up, and he said, Now we'll take it into a real recording studio. And Don Was and I looked at each other, and Charlie looked at me... @#$%& this shit. We've already got it down right here. Why do you want to spring for all that bread? So you can say it was cut in so-and-so studio, the glass wall and the control room? We ain't going nowhere, pal. So finally he relented.
- Keith Richards, Life (2010)

[timeisonourside.com]

Keith sounds like he's overselling how cool that method was as if he actually knows that sonically, it's a hard sell. When someone says "we ain't going nowhere" that usually means something different

Well, that's my impression as well. It is pretty hard to understand what Keith is actually trying to say there, other that he is bashing Mick there (a constant theme of the book). To me it doesn't sound it is anything about sonical matters at all: only that Mick - and only him - is so vain that he just wants to work in a fancy 'real' studio an sich, despite it not, as Keith seem to maintain, mattering to the final result at all.

When I looked those A BIGGER BANG related quotes on timeisonourside.com it looks like that what Keith is selling there is another EXILE myth, A BIGGER BANG being EXILE VOL 2. The same intimate French magic happening this time at Mick's place as it once happened in Nellcote. And like it all happened there in those archaic cirmustances - as EXILE myth says - and not counting, say, the highly important and inspired LA over-dubbing and mixing sessions in regard to EXILE that gave the album its final killer form (based on raw material from Nellcote, Stargroves and Olympic Studios). But simplifying things and editing 'non-essential' out makes a good story, right? Who knows if in reality Mick had something similar in mind if Keith's words are ringing true. That of 'okay, let's take this pretty raw material out and see what we can do with it'. But seemingly the others were pretty content with the stuff already in the can - or lazy - and Mick okayed it.

But as far I am concerned, A BIGGER BANG material sounds a bit half-baked and underworked. Sometimes being 'raw' is a real strenght, but I am afraid that is not the case here. So in my book Keith is actually shooting his own feet there when trying to make Mick look bad. What A BIGGER BANG prove was that Mick was right.

- Doxa

And at the time, it was 8 years since the last album. EIGHT YEARS...and eternity. Mick probably was just happy to get it and get it done and capitulated to the pressure.

I like a lot of the material, not all of it, but agree that some additional studio wizardry could only have helped.

In my minority view, "Sweet Neo Con", while I quite like it, I consider it especially as half-finished, "Streets of Love", in contrast to live versions for instance in Rome, does not sound right, and "Back of My Hand", despite quite good, does come over as somewhat sterile. Those songs most of all could have profitted by a rerecording, I think. But not only those.

My problem with Sweet Neo Con was that it was lyrically too 'obvious'. At least with Dangerous Beauty, the lyrics while in your face were hilarious.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-04-13 18:24 by treaclefingers.

"Back Of My Hand" sounds "somewhat sterile"? I beg to differ. The "detached" vocals, the dystopian lyrics ("Goya's paranoias" indeed) and the rawness of the recording add up to anything but sterile. Great track.

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mkbbcmr
"Back Of My Hand" sounds "somewhat sterile"? I beg to differ. The "detached" vocals, the dystopian lyrics ("Goya's paranoias" indeed) and the rawness of the recording add up to anything but sterile. Great track.

Yes, this is a standout track from ABB.

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treaclefingers

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mkbbcmr
"Back Of My Hand" sounds "somewhat sterile"? I beg to differ. The "detached" vocals, the dystopian lyrics ("Goya's paranoias" indeed) and the rawness of the recording add up to anything but sterile. Great track.

Yes, this is a standout track from ABB.

Agreed, I too enjoy it. I always regarded this track as being similar to a "You Gotta Move" part 2.

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Doxa

It is pretty hard to understand what Keith is actually trying to say there, other that he is bashing Mick there (a constant theme of the book). To me it doesn't sound it is anything about sonical matters at all: only that Mick - and only him - is so vain that he just wants to work in a fancy 'real' studio an sich, despite it not, as Keith seem to maintain, mattering to the final result at all.


- Doxa

I think that all Keith had in mine was he didn't want another Bridges to Babylon production. Probably he was afraid that "Hand" could receive the "Juice" treatment or that the tracks in general could be over polished (compare the sound of the recent Babylon outtakes to the official release).

C

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liddas

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Doxa

It is pretty hard to understand what Keith is actually trying to say there, other that he is bashing Mick there (a constant theme of the book). To me it doesn't sound it is anything about sonical matters at all: only that Mick - and only him - is so vain that he just wants to work in a fancy 'real' studio an sich, despite it not, as Keith seem to maintain, mattering to the final result at all.


- Doxa

I think that all Keith had in mine was he didn't want another Bridges to Babylon production. Probably he was afraid that "Hand" could receive the "Juice" treatment or that the tracks in general could be over polished (compare the sound of the recent Babylon outtakes to the official release).

C

That is certainly plausible. Good hypothesis!

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liddas

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Doxa

It is pretty hard to understand what Keith is actually trying to say there, other that he is bashing Mick there (a constant theme of the book). To me it doesn't sound it is anything about sonical matters at all: only that Mick - and only him - is so vain that he just wants to work in a fancy 'real' studio an sich, despite it not, as Keith seem to maintain, mattering to the final result at all.


- Doxa

I think that all Keith had in mine was he didn't want another Bridges to Babylon production. Probably he was afraid that "Hand" could receive the "Juice" treatment or that the tracks in general could be over polished (compare the sound of the recent Babylon outtakes to the official release).

C

The “Juiced” outtake still has quite a few electronica bells and whistles. If memory serves, one of the Dust Brothers said that track already sounded like they’d produced it when Mick brought it to them.

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treaclefingers

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liddas

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Doxa

It is pretty hard to understand what Keith is actually trying to say there, other that he is bashing Mick there (a constant theme of the book). To me it doesn't sound it is anything about sonical matters at all: only that Mick - and only him - is so vain that he just wants to work in a fancy 'real' studio an sich, despite it not, as Keith seem to maintain, mattering to the final result at all.


- Doxa

I think that all Keith had in mine was he didn't want another Bridges to Babylon production. Probably he was afraid that "Hand" could receive the "Juice" treatment or that the tracks in general could be over polished (compare the sound of the recent Babylon outtakes to the official release).

C

That is certainly plausible. Good hypothesis!

Of course, but my first impression is still standing - on some tracks, the "rawness" works, while some others like Back Of My Hand, Biggest Mistake and Streets Of Love for example simply sound like more or less cheap demos, too one-dimensional, too much "in your face", whatever one wants to call it - these could have used a bit more production finesse, more "air", more interesting textures/soundscapes.

That and the impression that the album is simply too long for such an one-dimensional "rawness exercise" in general and the songwriting quality of certain tracks in particular ("Infamy", "Driving Too Fast", "Dangerous Beauty" and the like). A bit like "Voodoo Lounge", the longer it plays, one increasingly loses interest.

A shortened tracklist, the addition of "Under the Radar" and a bit more imaginative production on certain tracks while keeping the "rawness" of some others could have helped the album tremendously.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-04-13 20:01 by retired_dog.

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retired_dog

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treaclefingers

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liddas

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Doxa

It is pretty hard to understand what Keith is actually trying to say there, other that he is bashing Mick there (a constant theme of the book). To me it doesn't sound it is anything about sonical matters at all: only that Mick - and only him - is so vain that he just wants to work in a fancy 'real' studio an sich, despite it not, as Keith seem to maintain, mattering to the final result at all.


- Doxa

I think that all Keith had in mine was he didn't want another Bridges to Babylon production. Probably he was afraid that "Hand" could receive the "Juice" treatment or that the tracks in general could be over polished (compare the sound of the recent Babylon outtakes to the official release).

C

That is certainly plausible. Good hypothesis!

Of course, but my first impression is still standing - on some tracks, the "rawness" works, while some others like Back Of My Hand, Biggest Mistake and Streets Of Love for example simply sound like more or less cheap demos, too one-dimensional, too much "in your face", whatever one wants to call it - these could have used a bit more production finesse, more "air", more interesting textures/soundscapes.

That and the impression that the album is simply too long for such an one-dimensional "rawness exercise" in general and the songwriting quality of certain tracks in particular ("Infamy", "Driving Too Fast", "Dangerous Beauty" and the like). A bit like "Voodoo Lounge", the longer it plays, one increasingly loses interest.

A shortened tracklist, the addition of "Under the Radar" and a bit more imaginative production on certain tracks while keeping the "rawness" of some others could have helped the album tremendously.

I've always agreed with almost all of those points, in particular the inclusion of UTR whilst trimming some of the fat, though we'll disagree on Dangerous Beauty.

Exactly, someone's finally hit the nail on the head, ABB sounds like a collection of demos for the most part. Even worse, demos that they tried to spruce up in the studio but since you "can't polish a turd" like Keith likes to say, they ended up making them worse, ONNYA for instance sounded a lot better when they first played it at Juilliard. It stood to reason that getting help from seasoned players and producers like they did for B2B could only have produced something a lot better and memorable...

Too bad Mick didn't put his foot down after also being downvoted for VL and then later complaining about it very publicly in the long Wenner interview in 1995. Maybe he got pressed for time (like he did for WS) and couldn't delay the tour.

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IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-04-14 06:12 by gotdablouse.