Quote
Rocky Dijon
Yes, can you imagine? It would be like tacking High Wire and Sex Drive on the end of Flashpoint or mixing up Don't Stop, Keys to Your Love, Losing My Touch, and Stealing My Heart on the second half of 40 Licks or tossing Doom and Gloom and One More Shot randomly on the second half of Grrr. I can't imagine it happening, as the Furry One declared, it's a terrible rumor.

Hope I don't get you wrong, Rocky, but High Wire, Sex Drive, Don't Stop, Keys to Your Love, Losing My Touch, Stealing My Heart, Doom and Gloom, were deliberately written for tacking them on Flashpoint, 40 Licks and Ape World, resp., for obvious reasons. (One More Shot perhaps being a story of its own.) The tracks with Charlie were originally meant for the new album (incl. its singles).

Putting outtakes from pre-new album sessions on a new anthology (or its bonus disc) would make sense in a way. Outtakes from new album sessions, be it with Charlie or even Steve, would certainly make more sense as bonus material to come along with the new album, georgelicks pointed out a number of options.

Depending on what statements or rumours from the past couple of years are to be believed, they have perhaps worked on dozens of songs (or ideas) over those years so there should be no shortage of outtakes from the totality of new album sessions.

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doitywoik

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Rocky Dijon
Yes, can you imagine? It would be like tacking High Wire and Sex Drive on the end of Flashpoint or mixing up Don't Stop, Keys to Your Love, Losing My Touch, and Stealing My Heart on the second half of 40 Licks or tossing Doom and Gloom and One More Shot randomly on the second half of Grrr. I can't imagine it happening, as the Furry One declared, it's a terrible rumor.

Hope I don't get you wrong, Rocky, but High Wire, Sex Drive, Don't Stop, Keys to Your Love, Losing My Touch, Stealing My Heart, Doom and Gloom, were deliberately written for tacking them on Flashpoint, 40 Licks and Ape World, resp., for obvious reasons. (One More Shot perhaps being a story of its own.) The tracks with Charlie were originally meant for the new album (incl. its singles).

Putting outtakes from pre-new album sessions on a new anthology (or its bonus disc) would make sense in a way. Outtakes from new album sessions, be it with Charlie or even Steve, would certainly make more sense as bonus material to come along with the new album, georgelicks pointed out a number of options.

Depending on what statements or rumours from the past couple of years are to be believed, they have perhaps worked on dozens of songs (or ideas) over those years so there should be no shortage of outtakes from the totality of new album sessions.

UMG would be idiots to not consider what almost happened in 1998 or whatever, with the supposed MEMORY HOTEL, or whatever it was to be called, leftovers from STEEL WHEELS, VOODOO and BRIDGES, that Virgin Records were about to do.

That's what I recall.

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doitywoik

Quote
Rocky Dijon
Yes, can you imagine? It would be like tacking High Wire and Sex Drive on the end of Flashpoint or mixing up Don't Stop, Keys to Your Love, Losing My Touch, and Stealing My Heart on the second half of 40 Licks or tossing Doom and Gloom and One More Shot randomly on the second half of Grrr. I can't imagine it happening, as the Furry One declared, it's a terrible rumor.

Hope I don't get you wrong, Rocky, but High Wire, Sex Drive, Don't Stop, Keys to Your Love, Losing My Touch, Stealing My Heart, Doom and Gloom, were deliberately written for tacking them on Flashpoint, 40 Licks and Ape World, resp., for obvious reasons. (One More Shot perhaps being a story of its own.) The tracks with Charlie were originally meant for the new album (incl. its singles).

Putting outtakes from pre-new album sessions on a new anthology (or its bonus disc) would make sense in a way. Outtakes from new album sessions, be it with Charlie or even Steve, would certainly make more sense as bonus material to come along with the new album, georgelicks pointed out a number of options.

Depending on what statements or rumours from the past couple of years are to be believed, they have perhaps worked on dozens of songs (or ideas) over those years so there should be no shortage of outtakes from the totality of new album sessions.

COUPLE of years??? Couple of decades!!

Rod

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GasLightStreet

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doitywoik

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Rocky Dijon
Yes, can you imagine? It would be like tacking High Wire and Sex Drive on the end of Flashpoint or mixing up Don't Stop, Keys to Your Love, Losing My Touch, and Stealing My Heart on the second half of 40 Licks or tossing Doom and Gloom and One More Shot randomly on the second half of Grrr. I can't imagine it happening, as the Furry One declared, it's a terrible rumor.

Hope I don't get you wrong, Rocky, but High Wire, Sex Drive, Don't Stop, Keys to Your Love, Losing My Touch, Stealing My Heart, Doom and Gloom, were deliberately written for tacking them on Flashpoint, 40 Licks and Ape World, resp., for obvious reasons. (One More Shot perhaps being a story of its own.) The tracks with Charlie were originally meant for the new album (incl. its singles).

Putting outtakes from pre-new album sessions on a new anthology (or its bonus disc) would make sense in a way. Outtakes from new album sessions, be it with Charlie or even Steve, would certainly make more sense as bonus material to come along with the new album, georgelicks pointed out a number of options.

Depending on what statements or rumours from the past couple of years are to be believed, they have perhaps worked on dozens of songs (or ideas) over those years so there should be no shortage of outtakes from the totality of new album sessions.

UMG would be idiots to not consider what almost happened in 1998 or whatever, with the supposed MEMORY HOTEL, or whatever it was to be called, leftovers from STEEL WHEELS, VOODOO and BRIDGES, that Virgin Records were about to do.

That's what I recall.

I remember that rumored release. What almost happened then though?

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GasLightStreet

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doitywoik

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Rocky Dijon
Yes, can you imagine? It would be like tacking High Wire and Sex Drive on the end of Flashpoint or mixing up Don't Stop, Keys to Your Love, Losing My Touch, and Stealing My Heart on the second half of 40 Licks or tossing Doom and Gloom and One More Shot randomly on the second half of Grrr. I can't imagine it happening, as the Furry One declared, it's a terrible rumor.

Hope I don't get you wrong, Rocky, but High Wire, Sex Drive, Don't Stop, Keys to Your Love, Losing My Touch, Stealing My Heart, Doom and Gloom, were deliberately written for tacking them on Flashpoint, 40 Licks and Ape World, resp., for obvious reasons. (One More Shot perhaps being a story of its own.) The tracks with Charlie were originally meant for the new album (incl. its singles).

Putting outtakes from pre-new album sessions on a new anthology (or its bonus disc) would make sense in a way. Outtakes from new album sessions, be it with Charlie or even Steve, would certainly make more sense as bonus material to come along with the new album, georgelicks pointed out a number of options.

Depending on what statements or rumours from the past couple of years are to be believed, they have perhaps worked on dozens of songs (or ideas) over those years so there should be no shortage of outtakes from the totality of new album sessions.

UMG would be idiots to not consider what almost happened in 1998 or whatever, with the supposed MEMORY HOTEL, or whatever it was to be called, leftovers from STEEL WHEELS, VOODOO and BRIDGES, that Virgin Records were about to do.

That's what I recall.

I remember that when B2B was released, Keith said in interviews they had recorded so much stuff that there would be a follow-up album the following year - which of course never happened.
Asking about all that here on IORR several years ago I was told, roughly, that (some of?) these surplus songs ended up on ABB and various singles as b-sides.
If anyone has more detailed information in this respect, or the rumoured Memory Motel project, please share!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-12-21 20:42 by doitywoik.

Bjornulf reported here on the IORR News pages that a 2 CD album of newly finished outtakes was supposed to tie in with the European leg of the NO SECURITY tour in 1999. That release was delayed and then disappeared.

If other reports are accurate, Mick felt the material needed more work and wanted to concentrate on writing new material instead of reworking songs already rejected once. Virgin, Don Was, and Keith all wanted this to happen. Don and Keith have both suggested revisiting the project or at least some of the material. Is it part of next year's album? Time will tell.

Quote
Rocky Dijon
Bjornulf reported here on the IORR News pages that a 2 CD album of newly finished outtakes was supposed to tie in with the European leg of the NO SECURITY tour in 1999. That release was delayed and then disappeared.

If other reports are accurate, Mick felt the material needed more work and wanted to concentrate on writing new material instead of reworking songs already rejected once. Virgin, Don Was, and Keith all wanted this to happen. Don and Keith have both suggested revisiting the project or at least some of the material. Is it part of next year's album? Time will tell.

I wonder how much of that material (for 'Memory Hotel' or what it was called) we got in that leaked big bootleg package some time ago. Okay, but not very memorable stuff me thinks. But surely still worth of an official release if compared to the stuff have released during those years.

But what I recall from those days is that Ronnie commented in regard to LICKS sessions that it is easier for them to start from a scratch than go back to unfinished old songs. I guess that comment also reflected Mick's attitude. I also wonder how much that still holds on, and is a part of the reason why making this album has taken pretty long. Mick not that into go back to yesteryear's songs, like the sessions of 2015 or 2016 ('what happened to that album', Charlie once asked), but prefers to make new ones when they have new sessions (the new album is not an archives project he probably have had enough already)?

- Doxa



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2022-12-21 19:25 by Doxa.

But Mick's attitude seems to allow for exceptions, otherwise TATTOO YOU would have never seen the light of day (so far as I know, TY was largely a Mick and Chris Kimsey affair). Also, that a particular song didn't make it on some album doesn't necessarily mean it was rejected because they didn't consider it good enough.

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doitywoik

I remember that when B2B was released, Keith said in interviews they had recorded so much stuff that there would be a follow-up album the following year - which of course never happened.
Asking about all that here on IORR several years ago I was told, roughly, that (some of?) these surplus songs ended up on ABB and various singles as b-sides.
If anyone has more detailed information in this respect, or the rumoured Memory Motel project, please share!

Keith's been known to make outrageous claims each time they have something to sell (1986 : "UC was the best we could do at the time", implying DW was great, in 2002 "best music we've done for years", almost each tour since 1989 "we're so hot we'll go in the studio after the tour" etc...) but I don't remember that claim there would be a follow-up for B2B the year after ? Especially since these were very "difficult" sessions, see "Old Gods Almost Dead" and even Keith's bio.

As for surplus songs I'm not aware of anyone claiming/knowing B2B tracks were reused for later projects. It could be argued that "Prairie Love" that's purported to be from these sessions could have morphed into "Rain Fall Down" but that's a bit of a stretch.

As for the MM project it's come up several times before, the fact is its content has never leaked so there's not a lot to discuss. The most solid info was its announcement on IORR back in the day. I think "Record Collector" mentioned it recently but they were probably going off after what was discussed here.

--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

If rumors are accurate, it was material Vigotone had mined from the VOODOO LOUNGE sessions, material from BRIDGES and allegedly a track from STEEL WHEELS ("For Your Precious Love" seems likely). I love a lot of the material that was bootlegged, but if tracks like "Honest Man" or "Zip Mouth Angel" or "Make It Now" were never more advanced than the bootlegs, I would agree with Mick. Though I prefer that material by far to GODDESS IN THE DOORWAY, I understand Mick saying he would rather write new songs than revisit tracks that were not included. It could be that Don Was and Keith love some of that material and wanted to see it come out, but it's also the easy step to simply tell Mick to finish up and then do some dates to promote it. In the Michael Cohl days, Virgin obviously felt assured that with the band touring regularly, any release would at least go platinum Stateside.

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gotdablouse
... but I don't remember that claim there would be a follow-up for B2B the year after ? ...

It was in a German language music magazine, Musikexpress or the German Rolling Stone or so, but I can't recall which one exactly. but I even may still have the copy stored away in some box.

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doitywoik

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gotdablouse
... but I don't remember that claim there would be a follow-up for B2B the year after ? ...

It was in a German language music magazine, Musikexpress or the German Rolling Stone or so, but I can't recall which one exactly. but I even may still have the copy stored away in some box.

if you can post the article in it here i'm sure many would appreciate it myself included (even though i can't read german)

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Doxa

Quote
Rocky Dijon
Bjornulf reported here on the IORR News pages that a 2 CD album of newly finished outtakes was supposed to tie in with the European leg of the NO SECURITY tour in 1999. That release was delayed and then disappeared.

If other reports are accurate, Mick felt the material needed more work and wanted to concentrate on writing new material instead of reworking songs already rejected once. Virgin, Don Was, and Keith all wanted this to happen. Don and Keith have both suggested revisiting the project or at least some of the material. Is it part of next year's album? Time will tell.

I wonder how much of that material (for 'Memory Hotel' or what it was called) we got in that leaked big bootleg package some time ago. Okay, but not very memorable stuff me thinks. But surely still worth of an official release if compared to the stuff have released during those years.

But what I recall from those days is that Ronnie commented in regard to LICKS sessions that it is easier for them to start from a scratch than go back to unfinished old songs. I guess that comment also reflected Mick's attitude. I also wonder how much that still holds on, and is a part of the reason why making this album has taken pretty long. Mick not that into go back to yesteryear's songs, like the sessions of 2015 or 2016 ('what happened to that album', Charlie once asked), but prefers to make new ones when they have new sessions (the new album is not an archives project he probably have had enough already)?

- Doxa

Yet albums from 1971-1983 (and FLASHPOINT's Highwire) have unfinished old songs. Why do they say such bunk!!??



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-12-26 06:14 by GasLightStreet.

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ProfessorWolf

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doitywoik

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gotdablouse
... but I don't remember that claim there would be a follow-up for B2B the year after ? ...

It was in a German language music magazine, Musikexpress or the German Rolling Stone or so, but I can't recall which one exactly. but I even may still have the copy stored away in some box.

if you can post the article in it here i'm sure many would appreciate it myself included (even though i can't read german)

If I still have it it's in a box in some attic or basement. But it may have been thrown away in the course of the last flat shifting & renovation operation, when I tossed tons of old magazines. Anyway, if I stumble on it I'll make a scan and post it.

It would be nice to get an official release of the extended version of "She Was Hot." The extended coda adds a cool bit of gravitas to the overall tune, not to mention the full (and more understandable) "telephone" lyric on the first verse. I've always thought Undercover was an underrated album that could've helped smooth over some of the interpersonal issues in the '80s, but Keith seemed to indicate their troubles were well underway by then.

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GasLightStreet

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Doxa

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Rocky Dijon
Bjornulf reported here on the IORR News pages that a 2 CD album of newly finished outtakes was supposed to tie in with the European leg of the NO SECURITY tour in 1999. That release was delayed and then disappeared.

If other reports are accurate, Mick felt the material needed more work and wanted to concentrate on writing new material instead of reworking songs already rejected once. Virgin, Don Was, and Keith all wanted this to happen. Don and Keith have both suggested revisiting the project or at least some of the material. Is it part of next year's album? Time will tell.

I wonder how much of that material (for 'Memory Hotel' or what it was called) we got in that leaked big bootleg package some time ago. Okay, but not very memorable stuff me thinks. But surely still worth of an official release if compared to the stuff have released during those years.

But what I recall from those days is that Ronnie commented in regard to LICKS sessions that it is easier for them to start from a scratch than go back to unfinished old songs. I guess that comment also reflected Mick's attitude. I also wonder how much that still holds on, and is a part of the reason why making this album has taken pretty long. Mick not that into go back to yesteryear's songs, like the sessions of 2015 or 2016 ('what happened to that album', Charlie once asked), but prefers to make new ones when they have new sessions (the new album is not an archives project he probably have had enough already)?

- Doxa

Yet albums from 1971-1983 (and many many FLASHPOINT's Highwire) have unfinished old songs. Why do they such such bunk!!??

Yeah, true. But how many of those songs were totally recut instead of just adding some things to already existing backing tracks? I think that in most of the cases (pl. TATTOO YOU) when they pick up some old track, they re-record the whole thing. Thereby thinking it like a new track, and starting from a scratch. I think for the band to record a piece, it doesn't matter if the song is derived from a recent Jagger demo, Richards riff or some song sketch they had once tried.

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-12-26 02:24 by Doxa.

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doitywoik

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ProfessorWolf

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doitywoik

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gotdablouse
... but I don't remember that claim there would be a follow-up for B2B the year after ? ...

It was in a German language music magazine, Musikexpress or the German Rolling Stone or so, but I can't recall which one exactly. but I even may still have the copy stored away in some box.

if you can post the article in it here i'm sure many would appreciate it myself included (even though i can't read german)

If I still have it it's in a box in some attic or basement. But it may have been thrown away in the course of the last flat shifting & renovation operation, when I tossed tons of old magazines. Anyway, if I stumble on it I'll make a scan and post it.

thank you

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Doxa

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GasLightStreet

Quote
Doxa

Quote
Rocky Dijon
Bjornulf reported here on the IORR News pages that a 2 CD album of newly finished outtakes was supposed to tie in with the European leg of the NO SECURITY tour in 1999. That release was delayed and then disappeared.

If other reports are accurate, Mick felt the material needed more work and wanted to concentrate on writing new material instead of reworking songs already rejected once. Virgin, Don Was, and Keith all wanted this to happen. Don and Keith have both suggested revisiting the project or at least some of the material. Is it part of next year's album? Time will tell.

I wonder how much of that material (for 'Memory Hotel' or what it was called) we got in that leaked big bootleg package some time ago. Okay, but not very memorable stuff me thinks. But surely still worth of an official release if compared to the stuff have released during those years.

But what I recall from those days is that Ronnie commented in regard to LICKS sessions that it is easier for them to start from a scratch than go back to unfinished old songs. I guess that comment also reflected Mick's attitude. I also wonder how much that still holds on, and is a part of the reason why making this album has taken pretty long. Mick not that into go back to yesteryear's songs, like the sessions of 2015 or 2016 ('what happened to that album', Charlie once asked), but prefers to make new ones when they have new sessions (the new album is not an archives project he probably have had enough already)?

- Doxa

Yet albums from 1971-1983 (and many many FLASHPOINT's Highwire) have unfinished old songs. Why do they such such bunk!!??

Yeah, true. But how many of those songs were totally recut instead of just adding some things to already existing backing tracks? I think that in most of the cases (pl. TATTOO YOU) when they pick up some old track, they re-record the whole thing. Thereby thinking it like a new track, and starting from a scratch. I think for the band to record a piece, it doesn't matter if the song is derived from a recent Jagger demo, Richards riff or some song sketch they had once tried.

- Doxa

TATTOO YOU was all original tracks. Previously leftovers, like what made it onto EMOTIONAL RESCUE, were SOME GIRLS leftovers directly.

Too Tough was a new recording of an old song, same as High Wire. Seems that 99% of anything from a previous album ala STICKY/EXILE/SOUP/IORR were previous sessions tracks finished.

So they skipped a year in 1975 - but that lead to more later anyway.

OK so 1993 onward they've not done that it seems. Fine. Except for the deluxe reissues!

Have it or serve it, it's the same cake.

The album is nearly finished. Announcement likely in early February.

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mpj200
The album is nearly finished. Announcement likely in early February.

- Doxa

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mpj200
The album is nearly finished. Announcement likely in early February.

Just in time for the new tour announcement that Bjornulf has been hinting at.
New album + new shows...keep on rolling...hope Charlie is included on the new album!

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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Hairball

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mpj200
The album is nearly finished. Announcement likely in early February.

Just in time for the new tour announcement that Bjornulf has been hinting at.
New album + new shows...keep on rolling...hope Charlie is included on the new album!

Of course Charlie will be on it. Do you think they recorded nothing worthy of release over all the years they’ve been working (on and off) on this album before Charlie passed away?
Surely you don’t think they’d wipe Charlie’s drumming and have it replaced by Steve “Crash and Bash” Jordan.

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Harlem Shuffler

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Hairball

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mpj200
The album is nearly finished. Announcement likely in early February.

Just in time for the new tour announcement that Bjornulf has been hinting at.
New album + new shows...keep on rolling...hope Charlie is included on the new album!

Of course Charlie will be on it. Do you think they recorded nothing worthy of release over all the years they’ve been working (on and off) on this album before Charlie passed away?
Surely you don’t think they’d wipe Charlie’s drumming and have it replaced by Steve “Crash and Bash” Jordan.

If you've kept up with this thread (which evidently you haven't), there was speculation that Charlie would be relegated to a compilation while the new album would consist of the new tracks with Steve.
Again, HOPE Charlie is included on the new album! And pay attention!

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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gotdablouse

Quote
doitywoik

I remember that when B2B was released, Keith said in interviews they had recorded so much stuff that there would be a follow-up album the following year - which of course never happened.
Asking about all that here on IORR several years ago I was told, roughly, that (some of?) these surplus songs ended up on ABB and various singles as b-sides.
If anyone has more detailed information in this respect, or the rumoured Memory Motel project, please share!

Keith's been known to make outrageous claims each time they have something to sell (1986 : "UC was the best we could do at the time", implying DW was great, in 2002 "best music we've done for years", almost each tour since 1989 "we're so hot we'll go in the studio after the tour" etc...) but I don't remember that claim there would be a follow-up for B2B the year after ? Especially since these were very "difficult" sessions, see "Old Gods Almost Dead" and even Keith's bio.

As for surplus songs I'm not aware of anyone claiming/knowing B2B tracks were reused for later projects. It could be argued that "Prairie Love" that's purported to be from these sessions could have morphed into "Rain Fall Down" but that's a bit of a stretch.

As for the MM project it's come up several times before, the fact is its content has never leaked so there's not a lot to discuss. The most solid info was its announcement on IORR back in the day. I think "Record Collector" mentioned it recently but they were probably going off after what was discussed here.

Bumped into the most complete "Memory Motel" thread I had in mind the other day. So I was wrong about RC as their article was dated June 1999 : [iorr.org]

--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

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mpj200
The album is nearly finished. Announcement likely in early February.

Thanks Mpj!

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Hairball

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Harlem Shuffler

Quote
Hairball

Quote
mpj200
The album is nearly finished. Announcement likely in early February.

Just in time for the new tour announcement that Bjornulf has been hinting at.
New album + new shows...keep on rolling...hope Charlie is included on the new album!

Of course Charlie will be on it. Do you think they recorded nothing worthy of release over all the years they’ve been working (on and off) on this album before Charlie passed away?
Surely you don’t think they’d wipe Charlie’s drumming and have it replaced by Steve “Crash and Bash” Jordan.

If you've kept up with this thread (which evidently you haven't), there was speculation that Charlie would be relegated to a compilation while the new album would consist of the new tracks with Steve.
Again, HOPE Charlie is included on the new album! And pay attention!

Ha ha! I admit I haven’t followed the thread too closely so you’ve got me there but the very idea of Charlie being sidelined by Jordan is simply outrageous.
The Stones haven’t made a truly great album (by their standards) with Ronnie Wood or Darryl Jones and Steve Jordan isn’t going to improve things.
The quality of the songs recorded should be up to a high standard after all this time so I’m looking forward to the album but you can’t replace piece after piece of anything without losing the original quality.

mpj200 posted in the previous page that the new album has tracks from both charlie and steve

and he seems like he might be in the know

True, but he followed that up by saying "With UMG, however, one never knows", so guess we'll have to wait and see.
Hope Charlie is on the new album!

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Quote
Hairball
True, but he followed that up by saying "With UMG, however, one never knows", so guess we'll have to wait and see.
Hope Charlie is on the new album!

yes sadly true

guess we'll have to wait and see

but it seems pretty likely to me that many charlie tracks will end up on the new album

Hope so.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......