I agree with the last post. I don’t think they lack creativity, Keith did CrossEyedHeart came out 7 years ago, and I really enjoy it creatively… they need Steve Jordan to help them, they need inspiration, I think if they were inspired they’d be up for it, but I think it’s much harder now at the age they combining their very different approaches, I suspect that Keith’s methodology is hard to make compatible with Micks, perhaps let alone anyone else…which is why ‘we’ hoped that it might be Steve Jordan might be the glue to help make it all possible…

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bitusa2012

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StonedRambler
And this thread is getting merged in 3... 2... 1...

Would you rather have them bring out another ABB or would you want them to get it right this final time? It's gonna be the last one, they know it, and they wanna do it right.

On the way they released a whole album of blues covers and a number one single (at least here in Germany) that they played at every concert during the last year.

I don’t freaking care what it is as long as it’s original material. CREATE something. Time is (NOT) on Your Side. OR MINE. FFS. IT IS embarrassing that the creators of Satisfaction, JJF, Gimme Shelter, Love is Strong, Under the Radar, Midnight Rambler, Play With Fire, Start me Up, Waiting on a Friend, Out of Time, Street Fighting Man, Almost Hear you Sigh, She’s a Rainbow, Continental Drift, Wild Horses, Brown Sugar, Shine a Light, Miss You, Honky Tonk Women, It Won’t Take Long, Rocks Off, Beast of Burden, Laugh I Nearly Died, Living in a Ghost Town and countless others, COUNTLESS others, have not been able to come up with 12, just 12 would do, tracks, in SEVENTEEN years. EMBARRASSING.

"have not been able to come up with 12, just 12 would do, tracks"
You act as if they have not been creating anything. They have been in the studio many times since 2012 and have probably far more than 12 songs. But this time it's not just about releasing SOMETHING, it's about something that will be remembered as the final record of the greatest rock'n'roll band in the world. Mediocrity is simply not an option here.

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DandelionPowderman

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bitusa2012

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StonedRambler
And this thread is getting merged in 3... 2... 1...

Would you rather have them bring out another ABB or would you want them to get it right this final time? It's gonna be the last one, they know it, and they wanna do it right.

On the way they released a whole album of blues covers and a number one single (at least here in Germany) that they played at every concert during the last year.

I don’t freaking care what it is as long as it’s original material. CREATE something. Time is (NOT) on Your Side. OR MINE. FFS. IT IS embarrassing that the creators of Satisfaction, JJF, Gimme Shelter, Love is Strong, Under the Radar, Midnight Rambler, Play With Fire, Start me Up, Waiting on a Friend, Out of Time, Street Fighting Man, Almost Hear you Sigh, She’s a Rainbow, Continental Drift, Wild Horses, Brown Sugar, Shine a Light, Miss You, Honky Tonk Women, It Won’t Take Long, Rocks Off, Beast of Burden, Laugh I Nearly Died, Living in a Ghost Town and countless others, COUNTLESS others, have not been able to come up with 12, just 12 would do, tracks, in SEVENTEEN years. EMBARRASSING.

Lol. Yeah, maybe the reason why they take their time this time is because they NOT want to release something absolutely mediocre like Under The Radar again (and they did not even release that except as a bonus track because it was so mediocre)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-09-14 20:29 by StonedRambler.

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guyrachel
I agree with the last post. I don’t think they lack creativity, Keith did CrossEyedHeart came out 7 years ago, and I really enjoy it creatively… they need Steve Jordan to help them, they need inspiration, I think if they were inspired they’d be up for it, but I think it’s much harder now at the age they combining their very different approaches, I suspect that Keith’s methodology is hard to make compatible with Micks, perhaps let alone anyone else…which is why ‘we’ hoped that it might be Steve Jordan might be the glue to help make it all possible…

They had a session for over a week with Steve Jordan on Jamaika I think. It was just before the European tour. In some interviews they said it was very creative.

It doesn't really matter what they release now, the Stones will always be remembered for their output in the sixties and especially the seventies. Maybe an honorable mention for Tattoo you. Even bad reviews for a possible new album will be forgotten soon when they pass away. So nothing to lose here. I am sure, Daniel Lanois would produce something very special.

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StonedRambler

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guyrachel
I agree with the last post. I don’t think they lack creativity, Keith did CrossEyedHeart came out 7 years ago, and I really enjoy it creatively… they need Steve Jordan to help them, they need inspiration, I think if they were inspired they’d be up for it, but I think it’s much harder now at the age they combining their very different approaches, I suspect that Keith’s methodology is hard to make compatible with Micks, perhaps let alone anyone else…which is why ‘we’ hoped that it might be Steve Jordan might be the glue to help make it all possible…

They had a session for over a week with Steve Jordan on Jamaika I think. It was just before the European tour. In some interviews they said it was very creative.

With respect, I kinda take those quotes about having had creative sessions with various people in various places with a pretty large a grain of salt. Keith especially, and Ronnie to an extent, are prone to saying such things. And have been for several years. Yet nothing especially exciting ever seems to emerge, album wise.

So lets not get all optimistic about anything changing now. Every tour that goes by, every year that passes, must make the process of writing and recording a brand new album feel just that bit less attractive. And of course they are busy doing so many other things anyway. Including doing some of their own solo things, plus finishing off those extra tracks that appear on de-luxe re-issues, recoding occasional singles, and curating their back catalogue and material in the vaults. And lets not forget wanting to spend some time with their families.

I also think that the final nail in the coffin of a new album has just been hammered into place by the recently released statistics from the recent European tour. THe attendance figures and the financial figures are staggering, and show just how much money they can make by playing the big hits, and giving casual fans those familiar tracks they know and love from listening to classic rock radio.

Personally I have heard all of these warhorses way too many times in concert. Hence my decision to not go see the band ever again. But I know I am one of a tiny minority who yearn for the deep cuts, seasoned with a healthy sprinkling of new material. Majority rules, and so it should too.

They're waiting for it to become "great" before they release it...lol......we could be here for many more years wondering and waiting for that to happen - as Mick said last year "don't hold your breath".
Not sure what the definition of "great" is, but their last truly great albums are over 40 years old. I certainly don't expect a masterpiece similar to their classics, and neither should they - it's an unrealistic fantasy.
Highly doubtful they will ever meet those high standards again, but a few decent tunes is still a very good possibility (see Ghost Town)- just like every album since Undercover or Dirty Work or Steel Wheels, etc., etc., etc.
A few random nuggets of decent quality tunes interspersed throughout each of those uneven latter era albums, and all of those albums are definitely far from being considered goldmines of greatness.
The days of pure classic Stones albums are a thing of the distant past, and as soon as Mick and Keith "getta grip" and accept that fact, the sooner they can release an album and the weight will be lifted off their shoulders

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

I'll just say one thing here that always proved to be true again during my life:

Don't ever underestimate the Stones

Every time people thought they were down they coming back with a blast.

Fact is: They have been recording almost every year since 2012 (with the exception of the pandemic years).

When it's all said and done and they can't tour anymore the best tracks of all these sessions will be choosen and we'll gonna get one final great album. Maybe not Exile-great, but maybe as great as if you would combine all the greatest tracks from 1989 till 2006 together in one album. I really think they could do that.

Why should they hurry with this and bring out something half-baked? Why the time pressure from some of you? Are some of you maybe afraid you might not hear it anymore?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-09-14 23:27 by StonedRambler.

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Hairball
They're waiting for it to become "great" before they release it...lol......we could be here for many more years wondering and waiting for that to happen - as Mick said last year "don't hold your breath".

Why waiting? They been in the studio just before this tour.
For me the strategy here is clear. Creating a whole bunch of material at each of those sessions and in the end then they will chose the best ones. I don't think they're as clueless as some of you pretend them to be.
An none of this material they have recorded will go away.

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Hairball

A few random nuggets of decent quality tunes interspersed throughout each of those uneven latter era albums, and all of those albums are definitely far from being considered goldmines of greatness.

Exactly that. So what if they keep recording until they have enough "random nuggets of decent quality tunes" to fill a whole album with that?

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StonedRambler

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Hairball

A few random nuggets of decent quality tunes interspersed throughout each of those uneven latter era albums, and all of those albums are definitely far from being considered goldmines of greatness.

Exactly that. So what if they keep recording until they have enough "random nuggets of decent quality tunes" to fill a whole album with that?

right be great to have one album in the last 40 years that most of us can agree is great

plus the more "uneven" materiel they reject the more tracks for a future fully finished studio outtakes leak

that being said be nice to have it in hand before 2025

do you think they've personally set themselves a deadline at which point what they have is as good as it'll get or will this just go on until mick's satisfied that he's got a new exile?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-09-15 02:54 by ProfessorWolf.

The last great album they made was "Tattoo You." The last decent one was "Steel Wheels." "Bridges To Babylon" and "A Bigger Bang" were unlistenable. I don't think the future holds anything to really anticipate. Especially without Charlie.

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Spodlumt
The last great album they made was "Tattoo You." The last decent one was "Steel Wheels." "Bridges To Babylon" and "A Bigger Bang" were unlistenable. I don't think the future holds anything to really anticipate. Especially without Charlie.

That's the spirit!

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treaclefingers

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Spodlumt
The last great album they made was "Tattoo You." The last decent one was "Steel Wheels." "Bridges To Babylon" and "A Bigger Bang" were unlistenable. I don't think the future holds anything to really anticipate. Especially without Charlie.

That's the spirit!

Who knows if the Stones think alike... Say if in Mick's vocabulary "good" means "unlistenable" and "great" something like "decent" in critical fan vocabulary... In that case one cannot really blame them being that motivated to release anything. The idea of releasing crap just for the sake of releasing something is not really artistically honourable if one has artistic integrity (no matter if some of their contemporaries who still are somehow alive might do that). Especially since they don't need (career, money or record-deal wise) to release anything. Besides, there is enough of crap already in the world.

- Doxa



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2022-09-15 09:46 by Doxa.

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ProfessorWolf

do you think they've personally set themselves a deadline at which point what they have is as good as it'll get or will this just go on until mick's satisfied that he's got a new exile?

I personally think they don't have set any deadline and I think it's very well possible that the last one alive (probably Mick) will chose the songs and finish them. Or that they can't tour anymore for whatever reason (health, fitness..) and then finish the album. I'd say 5-10 years from now is realistic, maybe with some singles along the way.

I'd say 5-10 years from now is realistic,


Hey thats great news ... gives us something ta look forward too ...



ROCKMAN

I believe their creativity has faded away. As people get older creativity dies for the vast majority. Spending years basically playing the same songs over and over on stage must also have a negative effect. During previous decades both Jagger and Richards have also spent a lot of time collaborating with other artistes.....not a bad thing in itself....but it must effect the J/R creative process. I do not believe they can write songs as good as those they wrote when younger.

Also, they are astute businessmen who are already wealthy enough for the rest of their lives. They have seen how long catalogues can continue to be sold and vast sums earned long after death. They all have families and loved ones who will out live the band. I believe they are building a vault of new songs, some of which may be used soon, but will largely be used as an income source for their descendants into the future.

IMO,Ghost Town proved that the creativity is still there. A very good song, and the bridge (that chord) was a new thing for the Stones.

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Kingbeebuzz
I believe their creativity has faded away. As people get older creativity dies for the vast majority. Spending years basically playing the same songs over and over on stage must also have a negative effect. During previous decades both Jagger and Richards have also spent a lot of time collaborating with other artistes.....not a bad thing in itself....but it must effect the J/R creative process. I do not believe they can write songs as good as those they wrote when younger.

Also, they are astute businessmen who are already wealthy enough for the rest of their lives. They have seen how long catalogues can continue to be sold and vast sums earned long after death. They all have families and loved ones who will out live the band. I believe they are building a vault of new songs, some of which may be used soon, but will largely be used as an income source for their descendants into the future.

i'm sure they've given thought to there descendants and have made some kind of arrangements

but i think your giving then to much credit here

it seems to me there just trying to make a decent album in there own time

plus why would future generations of stones fans want to buy recordings made by two surviving original members that they made in there 80's when there descendants could just rerelease exile for the 70th time and make more money?

and if this is the route they wanted to take then it would have made more sense to save the best of the outtakes from there best albums in the vaults instead of releasing them in the deluxe albums sets like they have for the last decade

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DandelionPowderman
IMO,Ghost Town proved that the creativity is still there. A very good song, and the bridge (that chord) was a new thing for the Stones.

i agree

an album made up of songs of this quality would i think be regarded by the majority of us as being in the same league as something like some girls or at least black and blue

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StonedRambler

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ProfessorWolf

do you think they've personally set themselves a deadline at which point what they have is as good as it'll get or will this just go on until mick's satisfied that he's got a new exile?

I personally think they don't have set any deadline and I think it's very well possible that the last one alive (probably Mick) will chose the songs and finish them. Or that they can't tour anymore for whatever reason (health, fitness..) and then finish the album. I'd say 5-10 years from now is realistic, maybe with some singles along the way.

I love your optimism. If it is in five years time, Ronnie will be over 80. Mick and Keith knocking on 84. I won't even think about their respective ages in ten years time.

Do we seriously think that a new album will emerge sometime between 2027 and 2032? No doubt many people will want to take me to task for being negative, over-cautious, and doubting The Stones ability to keep defying the ravages of time! Fair enough. I respect every and all opinions even if I don't agree with them. I simply cannot see them giving up the myriad other projects they are involved with IN THEIR MID-80s so they can find the energy, enthusiasm and creative inspiration to finally make the album of brand new original material that has eluded them for the past sixteen years.

And I won't even consider the possibility that at least one of them may not be around any longer...

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GerardHennessy

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StonedRambler

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ProfessorWolf

do you think they've personally set themselves a deadline at which point what they have is as good as it'll get or will this just go on until mick's satisfied that he's got a new exile?

I personally think they don't have set any deadline and I think it's very well possible that the last one alive (probably Mick) will chose the songs and finish them. Or that they can't tour anymore for whatever reason (health, fitness..) and then finish the album. I'd say 5-10 years from now is realistic, maybe with some singles along the way.

I love your optimism. If it is in five years time, Ronnie will be over 80. Mick and Keith knocking on 84. I won't even think about their respective ages in ten years time.

Do we seriously think that a new album will emerge sometime between 2027 and 2032? No doubt many people will want to take me to task for being negative, over-cautious, and doubting The Stones ability to keep defying the ravages of time! Fair enough. I respect every and all opinions even if I don't agree with them. I simply cannot see them giving up the myriad other projects they are involved with IN THEIR MID-80s so they can find the energy, enthusiasm and creative inspiration to finally make the album of brand new original material that has eluded them for the past sixteen years.

And I won't even consider the possibility that at least one of them may not be around any longer...

The Stones being too old for this and that? That's something I think I heard before...

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StonedRambler

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GerardHennessy

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StonedRambler

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ProfessorWolf

do you think they've personally set themselves a deadline at which point what they have is as good as it'll get or will this just go on until mick's satisfied that he's got a new exile?

I personally think they don't have set any deadline and I think it's very well possible that the last one alive (probably Mick) will chose the songs and finish them. Or that they can't tour anymore for whatever reason (health, fitness..) and then finish the album. I'd say 5-10 years from now is realistic, maybe with some singles along the way.

I love your optimism. If it is in five years time, Ronnie will be over 80. Mick and Keith knocking on 84. I won't even think about their respective ages in ten years time.

Do we seriously think that a new album will emerge sometime between 2027 and 2032? No doubt many people will want to take me to task for being negative, over-cautious, and doubting The Stones ability to keep defying the ravages of time! Fair enough. I respect every and all opinions even if I don't agree with them. I simply cannot see them giving up the myriad other projects they are involved with IN THEIR MID-80s so they can find the energy, enthusiasm and creative inspiration to finally make the album of brand new original material that has eluded them for the past sixteen years.

And I won't even consider the possibility that at least one of them may not be around any longer...

The Stones being too old for this and that? That's something I think I heard before...

I did not say they were, or would be, too old. I said I could not see them giving up the other things they are already doing, and will continue to do, in their mid-80s, so they can find the time to make an album they have struggled so much to bring to fruition.

Just because I doubt something will happen does not immediately signify an ageist reasoning to my argument. In fact my reasoning is totally based on what has been happening, or more correctly NOT happening, since 2006. For what it's worth I believe the main blockage regarding the album comes down to the musical differences between Mick and Keith. No surprise there. But as time passes - hence my reference to age - these differences are more likely to harden than soften. And when we consider the huge success of the tours, it is really hard to see them mothballing those so they can make an album. Especially as, apart from those like ourselves who love the band, the rest of the world would be sadly indifferent to any new album they might produce.

And how much of it would ever feature with any regularity in live performance?

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GerardHennessy
In fact my reasoning is totally based on what has been happening, or more correctly NOT happening, since 2006. For what it's worth I believe the main blockage regarding the album comes down to the musical differences between Mick and Keith.

But they HAVE been in the studio almost every year since 2012 even though they toured every year (apart from the covid time). Even a "bonus" album of blues covers was created more or less accidentally during those sessions. So that nothing has been happening is simply not true. Also Ghost Town emerged from these sessions, they didn't came up with that during the pandemic, if was from one of their recording sessions for the album they had in 2019. It was only picked up in 2020 and Mick changed some of the lyrics because the situation in the world was the perfect opportunity to release the song.

What is true is that just like with touring recording is only something they do once a year for a limited time. They are working at another pace now but nobody can expect they will spend a whole year in a studio as when they were young.

We'll get that album eventually. Patience is a virtue.

Meanwhile there are 30 Stones albums existing we can listen to anytime as well as super talented young artists who will be the future of music.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2022-09-15 20:50 by StonedRambler.

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StonedRambler

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GerardHennessy
In fact my reasoning is totally based on what has been happening, or more correctly NOT happening, since 2006. For what it's worth I believe the main blockage regarding the album comes down to the musical differences between Mick and Keith.

But they HAVE been in the studio almost every year since 2012 even though they toured every year (apart from the covid time). Even a "bonus" album of blues covers was created more or less accidentally during those sessions. So that nothing has been happening is simply not true. Also Ghost Town emerged from these sessions, they didn't came up with that during the pandemic, if was from one of their recording sessions for the album they had in 2019. It was only picked up in 2020 and Mick changed some of the lyrics because the situation in the world was the perfect opportunity to release the song.

What is true is that just like with touring recording is only something they do once a year for a limited time. They are working at another pace now but nobody can expect they will spend a whole year in a studio as when they were young.

We'll get that album eventually. Patience is a virtue.

Meanwhile there are 30 Stones albums existing we can listen to anytime as well as super talented young artists who will be the future of music.

I totally agree with your final paragraph. In fact, as I would also count their solo work, including Ronnie's, it may even be more than 30. But we won't argue about numbers here.

I actually really rate Blue & Lonesome - accident or not, it shows what they CAN do if they would only stop arguing about direction. And Ghost Town is decent too. I'd hoped it would be a hit, and it was in some territories, but not anywhere close to me.

I have no argument with you my friend. We are all on the same team here. And of course, like in so many things, there are semantic differences between us but nothing more. What will happen, or not, will happen. Or not. But the love goes on...

Who cares anymore? Do you think you're getting another Sticky Fingers? It took the core of Watts/Richards/Jagger & Wyman to create most of the magic. That will never exist again on this earthly plane. It's a chemistry thing. That's what's been lacking for decades now. They can put out a decent single from time to time, but even those aren't on the level of the Golden Age. Blue and Lonesome was a freak accident, and probably couldn't be done again.

I think it would be ridiculous call an album with Jordan and Jones as the rhythm section a Rolling Stones album. Let's just give up on the 'new album' idea. If what they had so far was any good Mick would have released it.

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GerardHennessy

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StonedRambler

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GerardHennessy
In fact my reasoning is totally based on what has been happening, or more correctly NOT happening, since 2006. For what it's worth I believe the main blockage regarding the album comes down to the musical differences between Mick and Keith.

But they HAVE been in the studio almost every year since 2012 even though they toured every year (apart from the covid time). Even a "bonus" album of blues covers was created more or less accidentally during those sessions. So that nothing has been happening is simply not true. Also Ghost Town emerged from these sessions, they didn't came up with that during the pandemic, if was from one of their recording sessions for the album they had in 2019. It was only picked up in 2020 and Mick changed some of the lyrics because the situation in the world was the perfect opportunity to release the song.

What is true is that just like with touring recording is only something they do once a year for a limited time. They are working at another pace now but nobody can expect they will spend a whole year in a studio as when they were young.

We'll get that album eventually. Patience is a virtue.

Meanwhile there are 30 Stones albums existing we can listen to anytime as well as super talented young artists who will be the future of music.

I totally agree with your final paragraph. In fact, as I would also count their solo work, including Ronnie's, it may even be more than 30. But we won't argue about numbers here.

I actually really rate Blue & Lonesome - accident or not, it shows what they CAN do if they would only stop arguing about direction. And Ghost Town is decent too. I'd hoped it would be a hit, and it was in some territories, but not anywhere close to me.

I have no argument with you my friend. We are all on the same team here. And of course, like in so many things, there are semantic differences between us but nothing more. What will happen, or not, will happen. Or not. But the love goes on...

In the end we all want that album. And we'll get - sonner or later

Concerning Blue and Lonesome: To me that album showed how well they can still perform, especially Mick. He hasn't been singing that loose and relaxed for quite a long time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-09-15 22:16 by StonedRambler.

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24FPS
Who cares anymore? Do you think you're getting another Sticky Fingers? It took the core of Watts/Richards/Jagger & Wyman to create most of the magic. That will never exist again on this earthly plane. It's a chemistry thing. That's what's been lacking for decades now. They can put out a decent single from time to time, but even those aren't on the level of the Golden Age. Blue and Lonesome was a freak accident, and probably couldn't be done again.

I think it would be ridiculous call an album with Jordan and Jones as the rhythm section a Rolling Stones album. Let's just give up on the 'new album' idea. If what they had so far was any good Mick would have released it.

I personally really like Steel Wheels, Voodoo Lounge, Bridges, and Bang, and would be thrilled to get one more like that.

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24FPS
Who cares anymore? Do you think you're getting another Sticky Fingers? It took the core of Watts/Richards/Jagger & Wyman to create most of the magic. That will never exist again on this earthly plane. It's a chemistry thing. That's what's been lacking for decades now. They can put out a decent single from time to time, but even those aren't on the level of the Golden Age. Blue and Lonesome was a freak accident, and probably couldn't be done again.

I think it would be ridiculous call an album with Jordan and Jones as the rhythm section a Rolling Stones album. Let's just give up on the 'new album' idea. If what they had so far was any good Mick would have released it.

No one here expects a Sticky Fingers, but I strongly believe they still will be able to create a good last album that will complement their great discography.

While I agree with you about the magic that involved Charlie, there are certrainly also good songs where Charlie doesn't play on. Wouldn't you think of You Can't Always Get, It's Only Rock n Roll or Happy as Stones songs? I think most people do.

Well, as for Bill - the list of songs without him is super long including classic songs like JJF, SFM, Sympathy for the devil, Live with me. Those are one of the best Stones songs. So Bill is not really necessary for a great Stones song, not at all. He had a nice style that complimented well with Charlie but is super easy to replace.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-09-15 22:29 by StonedRambler.

I truly believe and hope there WILL be one final album. And Black and Blue only had 8 tracks. I think they are listening and listening, refining and refining and will give us one last big hurrah. I only hope they listen to their gut (and here I guess we are simply talking Mick and Keith) and when it's done - don't over-refine it! Put it out!