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Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: georgelicks ()
Date: August 14, 2020 12:22

Quote
Doxa
sad, by the way, how quickly the album, no matter how much the critics praised it, seems to have gone out of sight, and not much talked anymore.

Dylan's album went 2-49-115-out of the Billboard chart in 3 weeks, once the die hards got their physical copies no one else left to buy the album and with zero streaming the album was dead in less than a month.

Maybe the Stones are seeing this scenario, sadly it's all the same for any act over 45-50 years old, no album sticks more than a month in the chart, too much work for so few reward.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-08-14 16:02 by georgelicks.

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: August 14, 2020 12:30

no matter how much the critics praised it ....

Yeah but the critics dont know ....
they say its a classic before they even live with it ...
Heck Dylan could poo on a piece of paper and they'd praise it



ROCKMAN

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Date: August 14, 2020 12:36

ROugh and Ready is one of Bob's amazing albums - up there with the best, a work of magic, mystery and imagination, unprecedented in what it does and how Bob weaves his own myths, the ones pinned on him and the ones used by him into the larger folklore he's always drawn from, and for me, the subdued breathing of the music, yes it is pretty simple, but for for good reason, is the perfect backdrop to how he employs his voice on these songs, and phrases those lyrics.
It's astonishing how different our take can be
- all part of life's rich tapestry ....

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: KRiffhard ()
Date: August 14, 2020 14:33

Quote
Rockman
no matter how much the critics praised it ....

Yeah but the critics dont know ....
they say its a classic before they even live with it ...
Heck Dylan could poo on a piece of paper and they'd praise it


thumbs up
Every new Dylan's album it's universally acclaimed as a masterpiece regardless.

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: August 14, 2020 20:33

New Dylan album - nice he released it, and there's a couple of really nice tunes, but as a whole it's far from his best. I listened to it for the first week after release, and became tired of it easily.
Would have been content with the lengthy Kennedy tune on it's own, but even that has become somewhat of a chore to endure. In contrast, Time Out of Mind still ranks among the best albums ever by any artist/band.
Gotta give credit where credit's due though - at the ripe age of 79 Dylan is still ready and willing to put put an entire album of originals whether people like it or not, and hopefully he'll keep doing the same.
Can't imagine him jumping on some contemporary bandwagon trying to fit in with the young market and how they purchase/listen to their music, unlike Mick who still attempts to be relevant amongst the youth.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: retired_dog ()
Date: August 14, 2020 21:06

Quote
Hairball
New Dylan album - nice he released it, and there's a couple of really nice tunes, but as a whole it's far from his best. I listened to it for the first week after release, and became tired of it easily.
Would have been content with the lengthy Kennedy tune on it's own, but even that has become somewhat of a chore to endure. In contrast, Time Out of Mind still ranks among the best albums ever by any artist/band.
Gotta give credit where credit's due though - at the ripe age of 79 Dylan is still ready and willing to put put an entire album of originals whether people like it or not, and hopefully he'll keep doing the same.
Can't imagine him jumping on some contemporary bandwagon trying to fit in with the young market and how they purchase/listen to their music, unlike Mick who still attempts to be relevant amongst the youth.

...and the others - also Keith! - follow suit.

Honestly, I believe that the whole band as a corporation decides what is best for their market value - and that does not necessarily mean that this is always the best for their music in artistic terms.

That's because all of them love their lifestyle and still considerable income far too much to follow the example of other contemporary artists who can fill small to medium size concert venues at best.

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: August 14, 2020 22:25

Quote
georgelicks
Quote
Doxa
sad, by the way, how quickly the album, no matter how much the critics praised it, seems to have gone out of sight, and not much talked anymore.

Dylan's album went 2-49-115-out of the Billboard chart in 3 weeks, once the die hards got their physical copies no one else left to buy the album and with zero streaming the album was dead in less than a month.

Maybe the Stones are seeing this scenario, sadly it's all the same for any act over 45-50 years old, no album sticks more than a month in the chart, too much work for so few reward.

Jimmy Buffett's newest LP debuted at #2 (#1 on the country chart) and 10 weeks on the chart. Haven't been able to find weekly chart position.

McCartney's FLAMING PIE re-entered at #74.

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: August 14, 2020 22:35

Quote
GasLightStreet

McCartney's FLAMING PIE re-entered at #74.

In Germany too: #71 - [www.OffizielleCharts.de] . Deep Purple's Whoosh! went straight to #1 - [www.OffizielleCharts.de] .

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: georgelicks ()
Date: August 15, 2020 02:43

Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
georgelicks
Quote
Doxa
sad, by the way, how quickly the album, no matter how much the critics praised it, seems to have gone out of sight, and not much talked anymore.

Dylan's album went 2-49-115-out of the Billboard chart in 3 weeks, once the die hards got their physical copies no one else left to buy the album and with zero streaming the album was dead in less than a month.

Maybe the Stones are seeing this scenario, sadly it's all the same for any act over 45-50 years old, no album sticks more than a month in the chart, too much work for so few reward.

Jimmy Buffett's newest LP debuted at #2 (#1 on the country chart) and 10 weeks on the chart. Haven't been able to find weekly chart position.

McCartney's FLAMING PIE re-entered at #74.

Jimmy Buffett's latest album went 2-157-184-out on the Billboard 200:

[www.billboard.com]
[www.billboard.com]
[www.billboard.com]

On the country chart the album remained 10 weeks so far, but with meaningless sales, you only need to sell 1k to reach the Top 10 on the country chart and less than 300 copies to reach the Top 50.

It's very hard for old acts to remain more than 3-4 weeks on the Billboard 200 chart with new albums, once the die hard fan base got their 5 physical copies of the album no one else is interested, without streaming there's no chance to hang on in there.

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: rebelrebel ()
Date: August 15, 2020 10:15

Quote
MadMetaphoricalMax
ROugh and Ready is one of Bob's amazing albums - up there with the best, a work of magic, mystery and imagination, unprecedented in what it does and how Bob weaves his own myths, the ones pinned on him and the ones used by him into the larger folklore he's always drawn from, and for me, the subdued breathing of the music, yes it is pretty simple, but for for good reason, is the perfect backdrop to how he employs his voice on these songs, and phrases those lyrics.
It's astonishing how different our take can be
- all part of life's rich tapestry ....

I agree with you. I still love the album and listen once a week or so.

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: maumau ()
Date: August 15, 2020 11:39

if the only reason to release the new songs is marketing oppurtunity there is little chance they have something good in the can.
of course marketing is an issue but I still think musicians should first of all want their music to be heard by people because they think its good. but mybe I am just oldfashioned

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: mailexile67 ()
Date: August 16, 2020 20:39

Quote
maumau
if the only reason to release the new songs is marketing oppurtunity there is little chance they have something good in the can.
of course marketing is an issue but I still think musicians should first of all want their music to be heard by people because they think its good. but mybe I am just oldfashioned


thumbs upthumbs upthumbs upsmileys with beer

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: mailexile67 ()
Date: August 16, 2020 20:48

15 years from the last original album, about 25/30 complete or unfinished songs, almost 5 years from the first studio sessions, and an album of cover that has sold over 2,5 millions just 4 years ago...Too many excuses and gossip, c'mon release the new songs it is "only" a record, they are musicians...It is their job and a matter to tease their pride...

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: August 16, 2020 21:09

Quote
mailexile67
15 years from the last original album, about 25/30 complete or unfinished songs, almost 5 years from the first studio sessions, and an album of cover that has sold over 2,5 millions just 4 years ago...Too many excuses and gossip, c'mon release the new songs it is "only" a record, they are musicians...It is their job and a matter to tease their pride...

Almost seems like they're afraid, but maybe the semi-positive reception to Ghost Town will renew their confidence. Meanwhile, expect more and more promo on the GHS Deluxe which is basically a regurgitation of material that's nearly 50 years old. Nice of them to dig through the vaults, but please...it's ancient history now. It's soon to be released, so maybe they'll make a move forward, but the most we can hope for now is probably just another new single. Personally, I can hardly wait!

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: GerardHennessy ()
Date: August 16, 2020 23:07

I've been saying for a long time what many others here have also been saying. Any new Stones album will have very limited sales and a very short chart lifespan. But more importantly, any new music will instantly be criticised heavily, and compared unfavourably, to what the band produced in their prime. The best The Stones can hope for is what the poet Alexander Pope called 'damnation with faint praise' together with rather a lot of patronising comments. In the circumstances I would think the band members will say to themselves 'why should we bother?' The Stones are a business corporation folks. And any self-respecting business is unlikely to sanction new product unless it either (a) makes money, or (b) attracts widespread critical and artistic praise. Any new studio music The Stones make will sadly achieve neither.

In the circumstances The Stones are highly likely to continue as now. Occasional special anniversary releases, periodic From The Vaults sets, maybe a new single now and then. And that is very likely to be it for semi-fresh product. When we see Hot Rocks racking up well over six years on the US Top 200, it shows beyond any doubt that the biggest hits and familiar warhorses are what attracts the fans. Simple as that. Even here on this site, where lifelong and knowledgeable fans proliferate, there is quite a bit of disagreement about the quality, or lack of it, in Stones studio albums after 1975.

What hope then for any kind of consensus about a new album. For me Blue & Lonesome is a very decent final studio album to go out on. Respectable sales, pretty consistent positive feedback, and an appropriate way of thanking those whose recordings inspired the band to get up and play.

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: August 16, 2020 23:19

Valid post GerardHennessy, and for the most part would agree. And speaking of warhorses, all one has to do is look at their latter-era setlists filled with decades old golden oldies and warhorses to see the same; that beyond any doubt the biggest hits and familiar warhorses are what attracts the fans. And yes, Blue and Lonesome would be an appropriate last album - they started with covers and then ended with covers. Still will be nice to see an occasional new single pop up though such as Ghost Town - that is if they can ever finish any of them.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-08-16 23:19 by Hairball.

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: Sipuncula ()
Date: August 17, 2020 02:14

Quote
Hairball
Blue and Lonesome would be an appropriate last album - they started with covers and then ended with covers.

Will you guys stop being weird? I've had to wade through a gizillion posts in this very thread over a period of years now, and now this? Blue and Lonesome is not their last album, and it's not appropriate as such as some kind of bookends thing, and they are not going to fade quietly into the sunset, Charlie with his horses, blah blah blah. They will have another album and everybody here will hate it. But I don't care. I'm looking forward to it. But it's irritating how some of the posters with actual factual information have quit in disgust.

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: August 17, 2020 02:21

Keith recently mentioned the possibility of another new single, yet there was no mention of an entire new album. There's a possibility it could still happen, but....not looking too good at this point. I imagine if they release a new single every sixth months, then apprx. five years from now there will be enough tunes to compile a "new" album - maybe not the way most bands go about it, but one way of looking at it and better than nothing.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: August 17, 2020 05:40

Quote
georgelicks
Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
georgelicks
Quote
Doxa
sad, by the way, how quickly the album, no matter how much the critics praised it, seems to have gone out of sight, and not much talked anymore.

Dylan's album went 2-49-115-out of the Billboard chart in 3 weeks, once the die hards got their physical copies no one else left to buy the album and with zero streaming the album was dead in less than a month.

Maybe the Stones are seeing this scenario, sadly it's all the same for any act over 45-50 years old, no album sticks more than a month in the chart, too much work for so few reward.

Jimmy Buffett's newest LP debuted at #2 (#1 on the country chart) and 10 weeks on the chart. Haven't been able to find weekly chart position.

McCartney's FLAMING PIE re-entered at #74.

Jimmy Buffett's latest album went 2-157-184-out on the Billboard 200:

[www.billboard.com]
[www.billboard.com]
[www.billboard.com]

On the country chart the album remained 10 weeks so far, but with meaningless sales, you only need to sell 1k to reach the Top 10 on the country chart and less than 300 copies to reach the Top 50.

It's very hard for old acts to remain more than 3-4 weeks on the Billboard 200 chart with new albums, once the die hard fan base got their 5 physical copies of the album no one else is interested, without streaming there's no chance to hang on in there.

That's just sad. Not that Buffett is one to sell millions of copies etc but good grief.

I was talking with a friend this weekend that released an album a couple years back and I mentioned to him the project I'm working on and how I'll never see the money - he basically said 'It's for the glory'. He compared it to his own Super Bowl ring, his own validation for doing it, that kind of art for art's sake "you did it, no one else".

Basically, releasing music for the sake of releasing music. It's kind of a vanity thing now, which I hate the use of that term, I guess... and almost no one is paying attention as it is when something is streaming on YouTube etc. I'll never make the money back in sales I spent on making it sound as good as possible but at least it's out in the world.

It's exhausting when you are the record label.

I suppose it's one thing to see a big act/solo artist release a record and it falls off the charts in 3 weeks, regardless of hype and social media, it's another thing to do what you love and have it essentially be dismissed because of how music's consumptive culture is now. "I'll check it out on Spotify!" is fun but it's not... supportive.

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: August 17, 2020 10:24

Quote
georgelicks
Quote
Doxa
sad, by the way, how quickly the album, no matter how much the critics praised it, seems to have gone out of sight, and not much talked anymore.

Dylan's album went 2-49-115-out of the Billboard chart in 3 weeks, once the die hards got their physical copies no one else left to buy the album and with zero streaming the album was dead in less than a month.

Maybe the Stones are seeing this scenario, sadly it's all the same for any act over 45-50 years old, no album sticks more than a month in the chart, too much work for so few reward.

The Who's example from last year went along similar lines, critics praised it but after a few weeks the album just disappeared like it never happened - nowadays only the most diehard Who fans remeber it, out of loyalty I guess... This is the cruel reality nowadays for the legendary old guard. For acts whose stuff once mattered.

The Stones, for sure, are a bigger commercial act than Dylan or The Who - those two can only imagine in their wet dreams of the sales of BLUE AND LONESOME - but still, the stats doesn't look promising for them either.

I think the cruel reality they are facing it: why to bother if there really isn't audience any longer? No radio plays any longer, no live audiences wanting to hear it... just some diehards giving a few spins at home (people who love the idea of them releasing something because 'isn't that something they supposed to do', but being bothered by the results, because 'this is no gimmeshelter, man...') The rest giving no shit.

Add there that most likely the artists themselves - hitting soon their 80's - are not any longer in the height of their creativity...

- Doxa



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2020-08-17 10:31 by Doxa.

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: maumau ()
Date: August 17, 2020 15:19

at almost 80, if you have it, you feel free to put your new music out because you are above everything, every number, every chart, even above life itself too,

or you don't.

if they wait for a "market opportunity" in 202*, they're done

all these years of teasing new music. it will be compared and suffer not only with hot rocks warhorses but also with these years of teased expectations.

ghost town being a good example of that for me

but maybe the white collar clerks at universal are more mesmerizing than mushrooms with their excel folios.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-08-17 15:26 by maumau.

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: Maindefender ()
Date: August 17, 2020 16:21

All in all, the Stones have done a damn good job of keeping themselves exposed since the 2012 return to touring. Because they aren't DIY or indie the "white collars" get a little too involved. But Hell the Stones today are the corporate Stones and we need to take the good with the bad and assume they genuinely enjoy this phase. This GHS deluxe is getting the royal treatment and I can't get Scarlet out of my head so regardless how much it sells I will for one being listening to this awesome release for the rest of my time

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: bitusa2012 ()
Date: August 17, 2020 17:58

Quote
Maindefender
All in all, the Stones have done a damn good job of keeping themselves exposed since the 2012 return to touring. Because they aren't DIY or indie the "white collars" get a little too involved. But Hell the Stones today are the corporate Stones and we need to take the good with the bad and assume they genuinely enjoy this phase. This GHS deluxe is getting the royal treatment and I can't get Scarlet out of my head so regardless how much it sells I will for one being listening to this awesome release for the rest of my time

I like this sentiment. Don’t like Scarlet, but like the exuberance.

I just think AS creative artists, getting on in age, like ALL we fans, it’s a genuine pity they don’t actually CREATE. They’re happy, it seems, to just dole out morsels from their glorious, long past, whilst ignoring their creative selves.

Rod

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: GerardHennessy ()
Date: August 17, 2020 18:03

Quote
Sipuncula
Quote
Hairball
Blue and Lonesome would be an appropriate last album - they started with covers and then ended with covers.

Will you guys stop being weird? I've had to wade through a gizillion posts in this very thread over a period of years now, and now this? Blue and Lonesome is not their last album, and it's not appropriate as such as some kind of bookends thing, and they are not going to fade quietly into the sunset, Charlie with his horses, blah blah blah. They will have another album and everybody here will hate it. But I don't care. I'm looking forward to it. But it's irritating how some of the posters with actual factual information have quit in disgust.


I have no wish to be weird my friend and fellow Stones fan. Neither do I take any pleasure in the facts of the situation as I tried to set them out. Personally I would love the band to record again. And for it to be both a creative and a commercial success. However the evidence would appear to be stacked against it. With an average age of 76, more money than they will ever need, a fine back catalogue that includes some of the greatest recordings ever made, a highly successful on-stage career, plus plenty of creative work available through occasional singles, upgraded reissues and re-polishing material from the vaults, there is no incentive for them to expose themselves to the hate you say they would receive in response to a new album.

I would love you to be right, and me to wrong. Apart from them being hated of course. But I cannot see it I'm afraid. Sad, but true...

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: IanBillen ()
Date: August 17, 2020 23:50

Quote
Hairball
Quote
IanBillen
They have worked on this thing in multiple places .. in various combinations ..

Band sessions .. one on one .... in isolation etc. etc.

LA- NYC - London (we've also heard they did a little in Paris ... who knows where else?).


Now they need a couple more band sessions to finish it he says. The
Stones have got to have amassed a huge amount of material over the last five years. Not saying it's all good .. or real good .. BUT they have worked on this thing on and off .. in various ways .. at various locations taking their sweeeet old time with it.

I think we can all agree .. they have had (and have taken) >>pleeeeeeeenty<< of time together and apart to work on it.

Hell Charlie remarked they had done so many bloody sessions on it (though he may of been exaggerating a bit ... still that comment was two years ago now lol).

Howdy Ian, long time no see (since Ghost Town was released), hope all is going well, and curious as to your opinions on the recent releases of the old/new demoes - Criss Cross and Scarlet.
Personally I've always loved Criss Cross, but Scarlet was a letdown and fails on so many levels which is a bit surprising considering Jimmy Page's involvement - guess it was overhyped and/or I was expecting too much.

Anyhow, in case you missed it, here's the absolute latest news on the supposed new album - a fresh quote from Mick Jagger himself!

“We have got to get together and do a couple more sessions, I think.
We are not really going to get together right now".
- Mick via TalkTalk

My first thought was it's a hopeless mess, but on second thought at least it's still being talked about. Meanwhile they continue to kill/waste time with the GHS re-release and all the publicity involved, milking it as much as possible, selling bundles of merch, yet nobody except the established fans really care about it. Imagine if they were to release some more new and original music. Something to keep them relevant. Something that might make new fans and in turn make them some more money. Seems a no-brainer, but...time keeps ticking away, and no9t sure if they'll ever get around to completing an entire new album. Best case scenario and best hope - more new singles....


___________________________________________


Sorry for the delayed response Mr. Hairball (just catching this for some reason).

I really like Scarlet. I think it needed more work to be a fully structured song .. (now it is one melody... one bridge or middle eight and a just repeat of choruses). I also think it could of been a little less typical / not so Stones cliche and it would of been a great Stones song back in it's original era. .. I think it had really some great promise. even as it is now .. I dig it.. good stuff IMO.

Yes I know Mick says they need a couple more sessions .. That was my point.. by the time they get done with this thing (IF they ever get done Lol) .. they will have had so many friggin sessions and it will have been worked on in so many places and with different combinations of people they should have enough for TWO albums Lol.

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: retired_dog ()
Date: August 18, 2020 00:37

Hmmm...the Stones having done all this work until now only to shy away from finally completing and releasing it due the climate of the music business?

How can anyone here believe that this is a likely scenario?

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: Stoneage ()
Date: August 18, 2020 00:51

The only thing we know is that there is no time to waste anymore. And they shouldn't plan ahead for more than one year at a time now.
Of course Corona doesn't make anything easier for them. Or us...

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: retired_dog ()
Date: August 18, 2020 02:04

-



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-08-18 05:05 by retired_dog.

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: bitusa2012 ()
Date: August 18, 2020 03:16

Quote
retired_dog
Hmmm...the Stones having done all this work until now only to shy away from finally completing and releasing it due the climate of the music business?

How can anyone here believe that this is a likely scenario?

I DO believe this to be A likely scenario

How can anyone here NOT think this is a likely scenario?

Or that, as Mick says he wants the songs to be GREAT, that HIS subjectivity and objectivity has overruled everyone else in the band and production team, and that what was put down over the last 5 or so years will never see the light of day? That’s another likely scenario, no?

Rod

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: August 18, 2020 03:23

Mick says he wants the songs to be GREAT


Me too ...



ROCKMAN

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