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Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: Rocky Dijon ()
Date: March 12, 2020 15:23

If we must know things factually before we post them, there will be precious little to write about on the board.

Try discussing outtakes, how classic albums came together, what Taylor or Ronnie or Keith or Brian's contributions were and limit yourself only to what we know factually.

What do we do when the actual participants' accounts are at odds? How do we reconcile when Jimmy Miller or Andy Johns or Glyn Johns remembered something differently than Taylor or Jagger or Keith or Wyman?

What about dating when songs were cut or when overdubs were done? Do we limit ourselves to facts like official credits from the record label? If so, what do we do when the official credits are seemingly contradictory as happened with the last reissue of STICKY FINGERS or the song publishing credits on the 2009 remaster of GOATS HEAD SOUP or a non-LP B-side like "Think I'm Going Mad" where one legitimate release credits Chris Kimsey as co-producer, but none of the other official releases do?

The truth is we rarely really know THE TRUTH. Actual participants make mistakes or view things differently or have agendas to further so even they can't agree on the truth all the time. Much of what we do on this board is speculation or adding to what we've heard before that makes sense to us and becomes part of our internal narrative for the band. We should argue, respectfully, when we disagree with someone's version of how things really happened if they're at odds with our own view since that is the nature of message board discussions. We debate the validity of one account vs. another. Facts are just another component alongside guesswork and instinct and rumor. The day we stop speculating is the day we just cry "fake news" every time we don't agree with someone.

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: KRiffhard ()
Date: March 12, 2020 16:07

Quote
doitywoik
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
doitywoik
...(That Mick is not fond of the idea of watching Keith strumming the same chord for hours while waiting for inspiration or the like is another story.)-...

But where does that story come from. It's most likely true, but as far as I know it's never been confirmed by Mick.

First, I have to say sorry. There should have been a "perhaps" in that sentence that I evidently thought but didn't type. This is of course primarily my own speculation but it draws on articles/reports over the decades describing Keith endlessly strumming the same riff or the like. Here's something in that vein from an interview with Waddy Wachtel:

"One day he was standing there, playing a chord and switching the toggle switch back and forth on his guitar, and I was watching him. He did it over and over again. There are limits to how much you can invade someone’s space, but I went, What are you doing? He said, [Keith voice] ‘I was just figuring out which one’s my sound.’"
[www.mojo4music.com]

There are also interviews with Mick from which it transpires that he doesn't like to waste time but I don't have a quote handy. Also, think of the Paris 2002 sessions where Keith is trying to remember the (or an) intro to one of the songs, and after a minute or so Mick is telling him that he can also search the tapes later (or something to that effect).

I'm pretty sure Rockman has a whole library of fitting quotes. winking smiley

The puzzling thing is that earlier Keith used to brag how many songs he actually wrote for albums. Like, I remember an interview (or was it from a book?) were he claimed to have written 130 songs just for Voodoo Lounge. In view of this it is a little strange that he now mocks Mick for being prolific while admitting that he himself has only three new songs, and it doesn't come as a surprise that people are wondering what happened to his creative spark.

I'm wondering sometimes if in earlier times his creativity wasn't also correlated with his intake. With most intake options gone or radically reduced (if we are to believe him) a loss in drive would seem quite plausible then.[/quote]

"Just Because"
[youtu.be]

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Date: March 12, 2020 16:12

Of course not, Rocky. If there is a place for speculations, IORR is the place.

However, we run the risk that a story from 1974 becomes «the truth» in 2020 – when we repeat it endlessly in different contexts smiling smiley

Because the story about Keith playing through riffs again and again, until he gets the sound he likes, stems back from the IORR-sessions – told by Andy Johns and/or Nick Kent, if memory serves. Kent is the same guy who claimed that Keith re-tuned his guitars and used capos because he was so stoned that he couldn't play, btw...

Keith hasn't been that kind of a «perfectionist» in the studio ever since to my knowledge. That shows in his playing, too. On the contrary, seemingly he is happy with few takes nowadays – at least after Steel Wheels.

I don't know if I have a point here, hehe, although to me it seems the songs Keith write nowadays are much less worked through and way more spontaneous. More feel and less structure.

I'm speculating, too, and I could be wrong. But this also belongs in the mix, I guess smiling smiley

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: Nikkei ()
Date: March 12, 2020 16:18

Remember that 10 minute take of Keith inventing YGMR? Glimmers of greatness that never lead anywhere

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Date: March 12, 2020 16:32

Quote
Nikkei
Remember that 10 minute take of Keith inventing YGMR? Glimmers of greatness that never lead anywhere

Yeah, and all the 10 minute Some Girls-tracks. Brilliant!

You're saying that it was Keith who suggested that? Or perhaps they all knew that Kimsey could edit those takes down to 3-4 minute songs, using the best parts? For what I know it could have been Kimsey's idea. Perhaps Was wasn't of the same calibre?

Who knows...

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: Nikkei ()
Date: March 12, 2020 16:54

Don Was is the calibre of a slingshot

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Date: March 12, 2020 17:06

Quote
Nikkei
Don Was is the calibre of a slingshot

grinning smiley

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: Rocky Dijon ()
Date: March 12, 2020 17:36

Quote
DandelionPowderman
If there is a place for speculations, IORR is the place.

Keith hasn't been that kind of a «perfectionist» in the studio ever since to my knowledge. That shows in his playing, too. On the contrary, seemingly he is happy with few takes nowadays – at least after Steel Wheels.

I don't know if I have a point here, hehe, although to me it seems the songs Keith write nowadays are much less worked through and way more spontaneous. More feel and less structure.

I'm speculating, too, and I could be wrong. But this also belongs in the mix, I guess smiling smiley

That's exactly what I wanted from you and everyone else, Bard is actual responses. Agree or disagree, but if so say why.

This might seem small to everyone, but it matters to me. 30 some years ago, I bought a cheap little chapbook published in Germany at a record show here in the States. I was in high school and this book printed cheaply with multicolored pages and poor reproductions of photos listed sessions and setlists and media appearances from 1962 to early 1984. At the time, the book (Wilfried Stember's Collector's File) was my Bible. It influenced bootlegs I bought (in those days they were cassette tapes of 90 minutes sold for $8.00 each). I would spend hours in that book. It was as important as the latest issue of Bill German's BEGGARS BANQUET to me. The book was written in a mix of English with some German words. It also listed Sugar Blue as playing harp on "Black Limousine" on TATTOO YOU. For well over a decade, I never doubted a word found in that book. Today, I've been convinced by the arguments made by Mathijs, yourself, Doxa, and others that much of what I believed fact was an erroneous assumption.

It may not count for much in the world, but iorr changed my internal narrative for The Rolling Stones. That's why I'm so passionate about sharing what I think happened or is happening. That's why I was so doggedly hoping soldatti or mpj200 would confirm or deny some of the "insider" gossip I've relayed these past few years. That's why I hate when speculation or rumors are shot down as "fake news" or unfit for discussion. It's only when others share what they surmise or have heard or simply believe to be true that we can sift through and decide for ourselves knowing full well our hard-won position today may change tomorrow.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-03-12 17:42 by Rocky Dijon.

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: March 12, 2020 18:00

"Don't hold your breath..."

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: KRiffhard ()
Date: March 12, 2020 22:21

Quote
Hairball
"Don't hold your breath..."

and "I'm writing new songs"!!

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: bam ()
Date: March 12, 2020 23:59

Quote
KRiffhard
Quote
Hairball
"Don't hold your breath..."

and "I'm writing new songs"!!

“I’m Writing New Songs” is the B-side to “Don’t Hold Your Breath.”

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: NilsHolgersson ()
Date: March 13, 2020 00:59

Delete this thread. Reopen when a new album's officially announced. This is torture.

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: stone66 ()
Date: March 13, 2020 01:23

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Keith hasn't been that kind of a «perfectionist» in the studio ever since to my knowledge. That shows in his playing, too. On the contrary, seemingly he is happy with few takes nowadays – at least after Steel Wheels.

I don't know if I have a point here, hehe, although to me it seems the songs Keith write nowadays are much less worked through and way more spontaneous. More feel and less structure.

Reading these lines brought to mind a music mag interview with Mick around the time following the release of Bridges to Babylon.

Mick was discussing with the interviewer Keith's Thief in the Night, commenting on what he perceived as the song's lack of development by pointing out that Keith just didn't want to work it through enough to make it a great song, which Mick felt it had the potential to be.

Myself, that was always one of my favorite tracks off Bridges; maybe not that much in terms of structure, especially to the more pop music oriented tastes of a Mick Jagger, but it has a great feel, with good, cry in your beer type soul.


Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Date: March 13, 2020 01:57

Quote
NilsHolgersson
Delete this thread. Reopen when a new album's officially announced. This is torture.

That's the news section on IORR. This one a question mark, hence it's open for speculation, thoughts and the tiny bits of info we can dig up from our dubious connections.

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Date: March 13, 2020 01:58

Quote
stone66
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Keith hasn't been that kind of a «perfectionist» in the studio ever since to my knowledge. That shows in his playing, too. On the contrary, seemingly he is happy with few takes nowadays – at least after Steel Wheels.

I don't know if I have a point here, hehe, although to me it seems the songs Keith write nowadays are much less worked through and way more spontaneous. More feel and less structure.

Reading these lines brought to mind a music mag interview with Mick around the time following the release of Bridges to Babylon.

Mick was discussing with the interviewer Keith's Thief in the Night, commenting on what he perceived as the song's lack of development by pointing out that Keith just didn't want to work it through enough to make it a great song, which Mick felt it had the potential to be.

Myself, that was always one of my favorite tracks off Bridges; maybe not that much in terms of structure, especially to the more pop music oriented tastes of a Mick Jagger, but it has a great feel, with good, cry in your beer type soul.

Good example thumbs up

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: March 13, 2020 02:03

Quote
bam
Quote
KRiffhard
Quote
Hairball
"Don't hold your breath..."

and "I'm writing new songs"!!

“I’m Writing New Songs” is the B-side to “Don’t Hold Your Breath.”

That's right, and "Hit the Wall" is the first single w/an instrumental dub version titled "(Don't) Hit the Wall" as the B-side.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: March 13, 2020 02:09

….AAAhhhhh should be good then…
The 12" dub version of Feel On Baby is a hidden gem …



ROCKMAN

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: Rocky Dijon ()
Date: March 13, 2020 03:45

Quote
stone66

Reading these lines brought to mind a music mag interview with Mick around the time following the release of Bridges to Babylon.

Mick was discussing with the interviewer Keith's Thief in the Night, commenting on what he perceived as the song's lack of development by pointing out that Keith just didn't want to work it through enough to make it a great song, which Mick felt it had the potential to be.

Anyone have a clue what interview this is? I really don't recall seeing this one and would love to read it.

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: March 13, 2020 03:48

Same here Rocky …. cant ever recall reading either …..



ROCKMAN

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: SomeGuy ()
Date: March 13, 2020 03:55

Quote
Rocky Dijon
Quote
stone66

Reading these lines brought to mind a music mag interview with Mick around the time following the release of Bridges to Babylon.

Mick was discussing with the interviewer Keith's Thief in the Night, commenting on what he perceived as the song's lack of development by pointing out that Keith just didn't want to work it through enough to make it a great song, which Mick felt it had the potential to be.

Anyone have a clue what interview this is? I really don't recall seeing this one and would love to read it.

I do remember having read this somewhere before but I can't remember where. I don't agree with Mick on this particular song, though. I'm usually not a fan of 'Keith's songs' on Stones albums, but Thief sounds like a pretty good track to me. The other two on Bridges are not my favourites, but I don't really like the album anyway, so...

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: stone66 ()
Date: March 13, 2020 04:19

^^^^ Can't recall which one exactly, but am pretty sure it was one of the 3 British super-mags of the time: Q, Mojo, or Uncut.

If I remember correctly, one of the mags sent a journalist to cover the first U.S. leg of the B2B tour, so the feature article was cobbled from multiple sittings. I recall being struck by how the journalist took note of Mick's apparent multiple personas; like one night he'd show up in a disguise -- glasses, sport jacket, etc. -- grinning with arms folded as he spoke in a somewhat shy, bemused, but cocky tone, like on those old television interviews from their circa 1963 to 1964 performances on music and variety programs, with the journalist marveling at how strikingly Mick still seemed to resemble his 1963 self. Then the following night Mick would treat the journalist to a later, more garish Cockney version of himself, at one point chiding the interviewer when seating himself directly in front of him: "'Ere, now, Oi was gonna put me feet up on that!"

So maybe what Mick said about Keith's tune on B2B is in that piece. Perhaps if you search for late-90s archived interviews from those 3 mags, then you'll find it. It would be well worth a (re)read, given how in those days such publications still had decent caliber journalists who knew their stuff and were genuinely interested in the artists they were covering.


Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: March 13, 2020 04:34

Mick put a vocal on the song, but he couldn't feel it, he couldn't get it, and the track sounded terrible. Rob couldn't mix it with this vocal, so we tried to fix it one night with Blondie and Bernard, barely able to stand from fatigue, snatching sleep in turns. We came back and found the tape had been sabotaged in the meantime. All kinds of skulduggery went on. Eventually Rob and I had to steal the two-inch master tapes of the half mixes of Thief in the Night from Ocean Way studios in LA, where we'd recorded it, and fly them to the East Coast, where I had now returned homewards to Connecticut. Pierre found a studio in the north shore of Long Island where we mixed it to my liking for two days and two nights, with my vocal.
- Keith Richards, Life (2010)



ROCKMAN

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: Nikkei ()
Date: March 13, 2020 04:38

"There's that word again- skullduggery. I'm not sure it means what you think it means. Matter of fact I don't believe you've ever dug a skull in your life"

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: March 13, 2020 04:42

noun: skullduggery


underhand, unscrupulous, or dishonest behaviour or activities.




ROCKMAN

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: Nikkei ()
Date: March 13, 2020 04:57

yep just trying to do a riff on the word literally by taking it literally

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: March 13, 2020 05:05

Skulduggery entered English in the mid-19th century as an alteration of a Scottish word, skuldudrie, which means “adultery,” “fornication,” or “obscenity.”



ROCKMAN

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: doitywoik ()
Date: March 13, 2020 06:29

Quote
Rockman
I'm pretty sure Rockman has a whole library of fitting quotes


Yeah but the only filing tool I own is a flat-bastard ….

Just drive it through your scrapbook and you'll get what you need! winking smiley

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: March 13, 2020 10:01

…I know a girl who lost so much
and ended up with a fat-bastard …… HHHaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa



ROCKMAN

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: March 13, 2020 14:15

Looks like the 2018 HalfSpeed-Mastered Vinyl-LPs are now available separately (8-May-2020) -- [iorr.org] .



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-03-13 14:20 by Irix.

Re: New Stones album for 2020?
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: March 13, 2020 14:18

Quote
Irix
Looks like the HalfSpeed-Mastered Vinyl-LPs are now available separately (8-May-2020):


A Bigger Bang - [www.Amazon.co.uk]

Bridges to Babylon - [www.Amazon.co.uk]

Voodoo Lounge - [www.Amazon.co.uk]

Steel Wheels - [www.Amazon.co.uk]

Dirty Work - [www.Amazon.co.uk]

Undercover - [www.Amazon.co.uk]

Tattoo You - [www.Amazon.co.uk]

Emotional Rescue - [www.Amazon.co.uk]

Black and Blue - [www.Amazon.co.uk]

It's Only Rock 'N' Roll - [www.Amazon.co.uk]

I'll settle for the half-mastered new album. With all the bad news right now, a new album would certainly take a bit of the edge off.

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