For me, it's as simple as listening to "You Got Me Rocking" on the original pressing of VOODOO LOUNGE and then "Rough Justice." Sonically, it's a completely different experience. The former sounds like they wanted you to appreciate each instrument and vocal as the sum of the parts is greater than the whole. The latter sounds like it was played live in concert and the engineer had a tape recorder next to the bank of speakers at the front of the stage. You hear it all and nothing at once.

Put another way, listen to "Brown Sugar" on the 1994 Virgin remaster and then the 2009 UMG remaster. Bobby's saxophone on the latter sounds like a kazoo. That is the joy of brickwalling.

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liddas

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Spud

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gotdablouse
Aren't the "Too Tight" guitars in standard tuning ? Hence one of the reasons it sounds so "pedestrian" ?

.

Not sure...haven't listened analytically... but it falls nicely under the fingers in open G with those Am & Bm voicings that Keith often employs in that tuning .

Good fun song either way

100% sure the main guitar is in open G

C

It is in open G. One of two on the LP. Not every album has a song in open G.

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-07-11 00:44 by SomeGuy.

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-07-11 00:44 by SomeGuy.

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rollmops

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Spud
You can hear it in the whole thing.

If you listen to music via a half decent "Hi Fi" system, Brick Walling will often manifest itself as a hard, boring, one dimensional sound....with no natural dynamics or light & shade .

It can rob both vocal & instrumental parts of any feel and subtlety .

It's not the easiest thing to describe [Dandy's description of the music not being able to breathe is a useful one ]

...but if you have the opportunity to compare a sensibly mastered recording with a Brick Walled version...the differences aren't subtle !

Honestly I am not convinced. But I respect the musical perception if one is able to identify it.
Rockandroll,
Mops

It's just a statement of fact, not an opinion or anything that needs convincing. Still, the part I am convinced of, is that some just "view" it in their audio analysis program and can't really tell all that much when listening (in the worst cases, I am sure it is fairly evident).

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Spud

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gotdablouse
Aren't the "Too Tight" guitars in standard tuning ? Hence one of the reasons it sounds so "pedestrian" ?

.

Not sure...haven't listened analytically... but it falls nicely under the fingers in open G with those Am & Bm voicings that Keith often employs in that tuning .

Good fun song either way

Keith's guitar (right channel is indeed in open G. His solo is in standard.

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Rocky Dijon
For me, it's as simple as listening to "You Got Me Rocking" on the original pressing of VOODOO LOUNGE and then "Rough Justice." Sonically, it's a completely different experience. The former sounds like they wanted you to appreciate each instrument and vocal as the sum of the parts is greater than the whole. The latter sounds like it was played live in concert and the engineer had a tape recorder next to the bank of speakers at the front of the stage. You hear it all and nothing at once.

Put another way, listen to "Brown Sugar" on the 1994 Virgin remaster and then the 2009 UMG remaster. Bobby's saxophone on the latter sounds like a kazoo. That is the joy of brickwalling.

_____________________________________________


YGMR and RJ are different songs ... from different albums .. in different eras...

VL and ABB sound very different as far as the production (/recording and mastering) because they had a different sonic aim due it it being a different time.

The loudness .. bare boned and in your face rawness of a compressed recording (AB versus something much smoother and breathable (VL). ABB was simply taking on the production style of the day and I think they made it work. I don't think most of ABB would hit you as hard and direct if they tried to benefit the dynamics versus the driving compression as say they did with VL.

Slightly different themed / styled songs .. different eras... different sonic approaches .. that's all it was. That was nothing much different from what the Stones have done all along or at least since the mid 70's.

Personally I think they made it work and I enjoyed the approach very much (on both albums).

So then ... I wonder what is next ...hmmmmmmm?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-07-10 14:00 by IanBillen.

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IanBillen

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Rocky Dijon
For me, it's as simple as listening to "You Got Me Rocking" on the original pressing of VOODOO LOUNGE and then "Rough Justice." Sonically, it's a completely different experience. The former sounds like they wanted you to appreciate each instrument and vocal as the sum of the parts is greater than the whole. The latter sounds like it was played live in concert and the engineer had a tape recorder next to the bank of speakers at the front of the stage. You hear it all and nothing at once.

Put another way, listen to "Brown Sugar" on the 1994 Virgin remaster and then the 2009 UMG remaster. Bobby's saxophone on the latter sounds like a kazoo. That is the joy of brickwalling.

_____________________________________________


YGMR and RJ are different songs ... from different albums .. in different eras...

VL and ABB sound very different as far as the production (/recording and mastering) because they had a different sonic aim due it it being a different time.

The loudness .. bare boned and in your face rawness of a compressed recording (AB versus something much smoother and breathable (VL). ABB was simply taking on the production style of the day and I think they made it work. I don't think most of ABB would hit you as hard and direct if they tried to benefit the dynamics versus the driving compression as say they did with VL.

Slightly different themed / styled songs .. different eras... different sonic approaches .. that's all it was. That was nothing much different from what the Stones have done all along or at least since the mid 70's.

Personally I think they made it work and I enjoyed the approach very much (on both albums).

So then ... I wonder what is next ...hmmmmmmm?

If VOODOO LOUNGE was brickwalled like A BIGGER BANG, you wouldn't like it as much.

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HMS
How about a double-EP?

Good one! Second that!

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GasLightStreet

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Spud

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marquess
...A BIGGER BANG has moments that are stellar and moments that aren't, but it's biggest flaw was the brickwalling. ...

I agree with you regarding the awfull brickwalling in "A Bigger Bang".

Listen to the version remastered to vinyl by Abbey Road for the recent 71-2016 boxed set .

It has far less compression ...and sounds like a different album.
Hugely better

Too bad they won't offer that less compression version digitally. I'd buy it again.[/quote]

They really should have made a version the new Abbey road remasters available for download...

A number of albums in the whole 71-2016 series display a worthwhile improvement over previous digital re- masters . The engineer had been very conscious of the compression issue and used it sparingly throughout the project.

Let's be honest...if you are able to use less compression when mastering for vinyl [a medium with an ultimately narrower dynamic range] than engineers have previously used for Digital formats ...there was something wrong !

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GasLightStreet

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IanBillen

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Rocky Dijon
For me, it's as simple as listening to "You Got Me Rocking" on the original pressing of VOODOO LOUNGE and then "Rough Justice." Sonically, it's a completely different experience. The former sounds like they wanted you to appreciate each instrument and vocal as the sum of the parts is greater than the whole. The latter sounds like it was played live in concert and the engineer had a tape recorder next to the bank of speakers at the front of the stage. You hear it all and nothing at once.

Put another way, listen to "Brown Sugar" on the 1994 Virgin remaster and then the 2009 UMG remaster. Bobby's saxophone on the latter sounds like a kazoo. That is the joy of brickwalling.

YGMR and RJ are different songs ... from different albums .. in different eras...

VL and ABB sound very different as far as the production (/recording and mastering) because they had a different sonic aim due it it being a different time.

The loudness .. bare boned and in your face rawness of a compressed recording (AB versus something much smoother and breathable (VL). ABB was simply taking on the production style of the day and I think they made it work. I don't think most of ABB would hit you as hard and direct if they tried to benefit the dynamics versus the driving compression as say they did with VL.

Slightly different themed / styled songs .. different eras... different sonic approaches .. that's all it was. That was nothing much different from what the Stones have done all along or at least since the mid 70's.

Personally I think they made it work and I enjoyed the approach very much (on both albums).

So then ... I wonder what is next ...hmmmmmmm?

If VOODOO LOUNGE was brickwalled like A BIGGER BANG, you wouldn't like it as much.

___________________________________________________


Sure I agree. You're right.

However Look VL and ABB are written a bit differently....different songs... lots of added musicians etc on one .. barely any on another etc. They are two different types of albums.


One can equate that to putting bright canary yellow on a nice 1948 Bentley and saying I wouldn't like it as much as the 1980 Corvette which already has it. I wouldnt like it as much bc I dont think it would look good on that type of car.

...same is true with those albums ... they are different 'things' you understand ... ABB wouldnt sound as good with that type of VL production IMO either .. or rather .. it would not fit that mold and would be missing it's purpose.... it's essence.


Albums and songs and the production at hand need to be a fit ... It should be has to be what suites the 'material' at hand .. (as well as taking into consideration the production trends and the era in which things are made). ABB was a stripped down much simpler album. VL was more adventurous with more people ... Different types of songs too ..

So that is how things work to my ears.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2019-07-11 21:20 by IanBillen.

The boys will put out a great album of originals.

Better than ABB.

Some golden nuggets on Cross Eyed Heart, more to come, Mick too.

They own the formula, just ponder the size of their catalog!

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Rocky Dijon
For me, it's as simple as listening to "You Got Me Rocking" on the original pressing of VOODOO LOUNGE and then "Rough Justice." Sonically, it's a completely different experience. The former sounds like they wanted you to appreciate each instrument and vocal as the sum of the parts is greater than the whole. The latter sounds like it was played live in concert and the engineer had a tape recorder next to the bank of speakers at the front of the stage. You hear it all and nothing at once.

Put another way, listen to "Brown Sugar" on the 1994 Virgin remaster and then the 2009 UMG remaster. Bobby's saxophone on the latter sounds like a kazoo. That is the joy of brickwalling.

+1

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beachbreak
The boys will put out a great album of originals.

Better than ABB.

Some golden nuggets on Cross Eyed Heart, more to come, Mick too.

They own the formula, just ponder the size of their catalog!

Whenever I'm in doubt, I think of Crosseyed Heart - a very high quality album by most people's standards.
And if any doubt remains, I think of Blue and Lonesome - despite the average sounding covers, the production was great, and they sound like a real band again.
But then I think of Getta Grip and England Lost, and all my hopes and dreams of a quality new album of Stones originals are temporarily suspended.

All we can do is wait and hope, and if it takes another two or three years I won't be surprised. I just hope it's of a high standard, but it seems they themselves are struggling to come up with something worthy of their name and legacy.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2019-07-12 00:26 by Hairball.

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IanBillen

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GasLightStreet

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IanBillen

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Rocky Dijon
For me, it's as simple as listening to "You Got Me Rocking" on the original pressing of VOODOO LOUNGE and then "Rough Justice." Sonically, it's a completely different experience. The former sounds like they wanted you to appreciate each instrument and vocal as the sum of the parts is greater than the whole. The latter sounds like it was played live in concert and the engineer had a tape recorder next to the bank of speakers at the front of the stage. You hear it all and nothing at once.

Put another way, listen to "Brown Sugar" on the 1994 Virgin remaster and then the 2009 UMG remaster. Bobby's saxophone on the latter sounds like a kazoo. That is the joy of brickwalling.

YGMR and RJ are different songs ... from different albums .. in different eras...

VL and ABB sound very different as far as the production (/recording and mastering) because they had a different sonic aim due it it being a different time.

The loudness .. bare boned and in your face rawness of a compressed recording (AB versus something much smoother and breathable (VL). ABB was simply taking on the production style of the day and I think they made it work. I don't think most of ABB would hit you as hard and direct if they tried to benefit the dynamics versus the driving compression as say they did with VL.

Slightly different themed / styled songs .. different eras... different sonic approaches .. that's all it was. That was nothing much different from what the Stones have done all along or at least since the mid 70's.

Personally I think they made it work and I enjoyed the approach very much (on both albums).

So then ... I wonder what is next ...hmmmmmmm?

If VOODOO LOUNGE was brickwalled like A BIGGER BANG, you wouldn't like it as much.

___________________________________________________


Sure I agree. You're right.

However Look VL and ABB are written a bit differently....different songs... lots of added musicians etc on one .. barely any on another etc. They are two different types of albums.


One can equate that to putting bright canary yellow on a nice 1948 Bentley and saying I wouldn't like it as much as the 1980 Corvette which already has it. I wouldnt like it as much bc I dont think it would look good on that type of car.

...same is true with those albums ... they are different 'things' you understand ... ABB wouldnt sound as good with that type of VL production IMO either .. or rather .. it would not fit that mold and would be missing it's purpose.... it's essence.


Albums and songs and the production at hand need to be a fit ... It should be has to be what suites the 'material' at hand .. (as well as taking into consideration the production trends and the era in which things are made). ABB was a stripped down much simpler album. VL was more adventurous with more people ... Different types of songs too ..

So that is how things work to my ears.

You're spot on regarding the differences. It's not different than saying if SOME GIRLS was done sounding like IORR in a way. Probably a good comparison regarding what you're saying.

A BIGGER BANG is an aggressive album. None of those songs would fit on VOODOO.

They have those albums, where songs won't fit on any other album. Nothing on UNDERCOVER would work anywhere else, yet songs from EMOTIONAL RESCUE could easily work on SOME GIRLS, the same with LET IT BLEED - STICKY FINGERS - EOMS. Not every song... but there are lots of interchangeable songs overall regarding the way they were done, the production.

Which makes TATTOO YOU even a more brilliant album because of what Bob Clearmountain did with the mix.

The rest of the band were hardly involved. And then I took it to Bob Clearmountain, who did this great job of mixing so that it doesn't sound like it's from different periods.
- Mick Jagger, 1995

[timeisonourside.com]

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GasLightStreet


The rest of the band were hardly involved. And then I took it to Bob Clearmountain, who did this great job of mixing so that it doesn't sound like it's from different periods.
- Mick Jagger, 1995

[timeisonourside.com]

Obviously even Mick Jagger confirms that TY is a compilation album.

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GasLightStreet
Nothing on UNDERCOVER would work anywhere else

She Was Hot, All The Way Down, Too Tough, Wanna Hold You all would work on albums like SG & ER, imo.

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HMS

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GasLightStreet
Nothing on UNDERCOVER would work anywhere else

She Was Hot, All The Way Down, Too Tough, Wanna Hold You all would work on albums like SG & ER, imo.

i actually agree with this

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HMS

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GasLightStreet


The rest of the band were hardly involved. And then I took it to Bob Clearmountain, who did this great job of mixing so that it doesn't sound like it's from different periods.
- Mick Jagger, 1995

[timeisonourside.com]

Obviously even Mick Jagger confirms that TY is a compilation album.

He's never said that. You're the only kook that has said it. #FakeStonesFan

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GasLightStreet

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HMS

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GasLightStreet


The rest of the band were hardly involved. And then I took it to Bob Clearmountain, who did this great job of mixing so that it doesn't sound like it's from different periods.
- Mick Jagger, 1995

[timeisonourside.com]

Obviously even Mick Jagger confirms that TY is a compilation album.

He's never said that. You're the only kook that has said it. #FakeStonesFan

He does not need to say it. "from different periods" = Compilation

GasLight - why do you rise to the bait every time?!

I enjoy your insightful contributions, pleas don't get side tracked into this nonsensical labyrinth...

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peoplewitheyes
GasLight - why do you rise to the bait every time?!

I enjoy your insightful contributions, pleas don't get side tracked into this nonsensical labyrinth...

Ha ha. Boredom, I guess.

You're right though. Quite a few Stones albums have old recordings on them, which doesn't matter.

TY was not a compilation album (compilation albums are songs that were already released or completed or were b sides to singles etc..). TY was an album comprised of unreleased material over the years that was not completed that was worked up and crafted with a few newer (more recent) tunes thrown into the batch as well. It is / was a new studio album .. but it wasn't nor is it ever seen as a compilation.


Now... on with the convo about the upcoming album .. whenever it will FINALLY come Lol.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2019-07-13 08:07 by IanBillen.

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IanBillen
TY was not a compilation album (compilation albums are songs that were already released or completed or were b sides to singles etc..). TY was an album comprised of unreleased material over the years that was not completed that was worked up and crafted with a few newer (more recent) tunes thrown into the batch as well. It is / was a new studio album .. but it wasn't nor is it ever seen as a compilation.


Now... on with the convo about the upcoming album .. whenever it will FINALLY come Lol.

Since the lads have an extra day in New Orleans due to the postponed show they should be taking advantage of their time off and proximity to each other and spend an afternoon writing together in their hotel suite. Or watching cricket.

They're writing Gimmie Shelter, part 2...

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TornAndFried

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IanBillen
TY was not a compilation album (compilation albums are songs that were already released or completed or were b sides to singles etc..). TY was an album comprised of unreleased material over the years that was not completed that was worked up and crafted with a few newer (more recent) tunes thrown into the batch as well. It is / was a new studio album .. but it wasn't nor is it ever seen as a compilation.


Now... on with the convo about the upcoming album .. whenever it will FINALLY come Lol.

Since the lads have an extra day in New Orleans due to the postponed show they should be taking advantage of their time off and proximity to each other and spend an afternoon writing together in their hotel suite. Or watching cricket.

Please don’t rush them.
After 15 years of waiting i don’t think it’s appropriate to put pressure on them for a new album. They’re in the "early stages" and we can wait.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-07-13 15:43 by KRiffhard.

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HMS

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GasLightStreet


The rest of the band were hardly involved. And then I took it to Bob Clearmountain, who did this great job of mixing so that it doesn't sound like it's from different periods.
- Mick Jagger, 1995

[timeisonourside.com]

Obviously even Mick Jagger confirms that TY is a compilation album.

Somehow you can't handle what "album" means.

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KRiffhard

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TornAndFried

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IanBillen
TY was not a compilation album (compilation albums are songs that were already released or completed or were b sides to singles etc..). TY was an album comprised of unreleased material over the years that was not completed that was worked up and crafted with a few newer (more recent) tunes thrown into the batch as well. It is / was a new studio album .. but it wasn't nor is it ever seen as a compilation.


Now... on with the convo about the upcoming album .. whenever it will FINALLY come Lol.

Since the lads have an extra day in New Orleans due to the postponed show they should be taking advantage of their time off and proximity to each other and spend an afternoon writing together in their hotel suite. Or watching cricket.

Please don’t rush them.
After 15 years of waiting i don’t think it’s appropriate to put pressure on them for a new album. They’re in the "early stages" and we can wait.

You're right. They don't need the additional pressure of their fans who have been waiting for over a decade for a new album. I'm sure UMG and Don Was and their management is already breathing down their neck so we should all back off and let them enjoy their summer tour, and maybe they can get together at the end of the year and talk about a few ideas for the next album in between discussing ideas for new merchandise and VIP ticket options for the next tour.

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TornAndFried
They don't need the additional pressure of their fans

I agree. But I don´t think they care about any "additiional pressure of their fans". They do what they do and it takes as long as it takes. Fans are always longing for a new album, had the Stones ever felt any pressure, we would have had 5 albums since 2005. They probably will be toying around with their sketches until 60th anniversary and then they will release something - maybe a new album, maybe just TONK including 2 new songs.

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GasLightStreet
Somehow you can't handle what "album" means.

I know that any bunch of songs is/can be called an "album". But a "regular new studio album" is totally different from "previously unreleased reworked/finished/updated songs from different periods". Especially when there were other "regular new studio albums" released after recordings of songs that were to end up on TY had been started (IORR, Black & Blue) hence TY is by no means "a regular new studio album" (there were also no band sessions for it and no new songs written for it) it is "a compilation of previously unreleased reworked/finished/updated songs from different periods" Any album consisting of songs from "different periods" has to be considered a "compilation", no matter when songs were started or finished.
That is logical.
101 %.