Tell Me :
Talk
How about a double-EP?
The thing is, I'm a completist. I'd never cherry pick my favorite 10 out of 19. Filler doesn't bother me so much as sequencing. I don't consider STEEL WHEELS, VOODOO LOUNGE, or BRIDGES TO BABYLON to be mediocre efforts. A BIGGER BANG has moments that are stellar and moments that aren't, but it's biggest flaw was the brickwalling. As always, opinions are subjective. My buddy Gaslight doesn't much care for the 1990s albums whereas I'd take those two plus MAIN OFFENDER and WANDERING SPIRIT and consider them a great run despite some headhanging shame over "sharks will cry" or the Biz Markie sample. Minor quibbles in the face of strong albums in my view. Starting with GODDESS IN THE DOORWAY, I thought the tide turned and the ratio to great songs to mediocre ones shifted dramatically. I still wouldn't call it an embarrassment.
You like to avoid context, in general, as well as the listening experience, so it's no surprise. Would EOMS be better with less songs? Obviously. That's a given - because it's so good as it is. But even the odd tunes work, which makes it a flawless album, within the album, which is why its held with such high esteem as their 1968, 1969 and 1971 LPs (and is why SOME GIRLS and TATTOO YOU are so critically acclaimed and loved by fans because they are 1968-72 as good as well).
I agree with you regarding the awfull brickwalling in "A Bigger Bang".
I agree with you regarding the awfull brickwalling in "A Bigger Bang".[/quote]
Listen to the version remastered to vinyl by Abbey Road for the recent 71-2016 boxed set .
It has far less compression ...and sounds like a different album.
Hugely better
"Brickwalling"; Rocky can you explain what you mean here? I am not sure I understand correctly. Thank you, Dijon.
Rockandroll,
Mops
OK. And where in ABB can one hear brickwalling? I am not arguing against the criticism , I just want to see its face. Thank you.
Rockandroll,
Mops
Honestly I am not convinced. But I respect the musical perception if one is able to identify it.
Rockandroll,
Mops
See , that's a good example of why we shouldn't ditch anything...because somebody will like it.
I wouldn't ditch Too Tight.
Yes, its a bit of a throw away ditty...and hardly a masterpiece ...
but its got some fun Open G riffage in it ...and I can never get too much of that.
Aren't the "Too Tight" guitars in standard tuning ? Hence one of the reasons it sounds so "pedestrian" ?
As for the new album, yes...the more they wait the harder it gets to put it out, georgelicks' suggestion of 2/4 songs every other year would have been fine. No risk of ruining their reputation (no one remembers Mick's useless songs from 2017) they're (rightly) worried about with the "new album" and enough "killer riffs" between them to come up with something vaguely memorable surely.
--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-07-09 15:50 by gotdablouse.
I somewhat agree
Not sure...haven't listened analytically... but it falls nicely under the fingers in open G with those Am & Bm voicings that Keith often employs in that tuning .
Good fun song either way
100% sure the main guitar is in open G
C
Listen to the version remastered to vinyl by Abbey Road for the recent 71-2016 boxed set .
It has far less compression ...and sounds like a different album.
Hugely better[/quote]
Too bad they won't offer that less compression version digitally. I'd buy it again.
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: July 8, 2019 19:29
37 minutes is a long player, not an EP, though..
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
Maindefender
()
Date: July 8, 2019 19:42
B2B deserves more love, I guess the only song I would drop is Too Tight. Would like the new album mix like B2B also.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
mailexile67
()
Date: July 8, 2019 19:53
How many problems for an album of 10-12 tunes...In 15 years...Are they still musicians or what?!
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
24FPS
()
Date: July 8, 2019 22:18
Still no album. 359 pages of posts about nothing. The Seinfeld of albums.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
HMS
()
Date: July 8, 2019 22:23
Quote
DandelionPowderman
37 minutes is a long player, not an EP, though..
How about a double-EP?
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: July 8, 2019 22:56
Quote
HMSQuote
DandelionPowderman
37 minutes is a long player, not an EP, though..
How about a double-EP?
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
powerage78
()
Date: July 8, 2019 23:07
Tours.
No album.
Stones new - old concept.
***
I'm just a Bad Boy Boogie
No album.
Stones new - old concept.
***
I'm just a Bad Boy Boogie
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
Rocky Dijon
()
Date: July 9, 2019 00:24
Quote
HMS
Of course you can say the more tracks on an album the better. You can later cherry pick your 10 favorite songs from a 19-songs album and you would probably have a great album (depending on your personal taste).
But on the other hand this "puttin (almost) everything we have on the album" in case of VL, B2B and ABB leads in fact to albums that are seemingly average or subpar. I consider Bridges To Babylon a very mediocre album because of its amount of "fillers". But if I drop off everything I do not like there would remain 37 minutes of imo great music. So there are pros and cons in putting every finished song on an album - Overall subpar impression versus the possibility to create your own definitve version.
The thing is, I'm a completist. I'd never cherry pick my favorite 10 out of 19. Filler doesn't bother me so much as sequencing. I don't consider STEEL WHEELS, VOODOO LOUNGE, or BRIDGES TO BABYLON to be mediocre efforts. A BIGGER BANG has moments that are stellar and moments that aren't, but it's biggest flaw was the brickwalling. As always, opinions are subjective. My buddy Gaslight doesn't much care for the 1990s albums whereas I'd take those two plus MAIN OFFENDER and WANDERING SPIRIT and consider them a great run despite some headhanging shame over "sharks will cry" or the Biz Markie sample. Minor quibbles in the face of strong albums in my view. Starting with GODDESS IN THE DOORWAY, I thought the tide turned and the ratio to great songs to mediocre ones shifted dramatically. I still wouldn't call it an embarrassment.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: July 9, 2019 00:45
Quote
HMS
Of course you can say the more tracks on an album the better. You can later cherry pick your 10 favorite songs from a 19-songs album and you would probably have a great album (depending on your personal taste).
But on the other hand this "puttin (almost) everything we have on the album" in case of VL, B2B and ABB leads in fact to albums that are seemingly average or subpar. I consider Bridges To Babylon a very mediocre album because of its amount of "fillers". But if I drop off everything I do not like there would remain 37 minutes of imo great music. So there are pros and cons in putting every finished song on an album - Overall subpar impression versus the possibility to create your own definitve version.
You like to avoid context, in general, as well as the listening experience, so it's no surprise. Would EOMS be better with less songs? Obviously. That's a given - because it's so good as it is. But even the odd tunes work, which makes it a flawless album, within the album, which is why its held with such high esteem as their 1968, 1969 and 1971 LPs (and is why SOME GIRLS and TATTOO YOU are so critically acclaimed and loved by fans because they are 1968-72 as good as well).
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
Spud
()
Date: July 9, 2019 10:16
Quite agree.
Is every track on Exile great in it own right ?
No ....
...but there isn't one song that doesn't contribute in some way to the magical vibe of the album as whole .
Is every track on Exile great in it own right ?
No ....
...but there isn't one song that doesn't contribute in some way to the magical vibe of the album as whole .
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
marquess
()
Date: July 9, 2019 12:24
Quote
Rocky DijonQuote
HMS
Of course you can say the more tracks on an album the better. You can later cherry pick your 10 favorite songs from a 19-songs album and you would probably have a great album (depending on your personal taste).
But on the other hand this "puttin (almost) everything we have on the album" in case of VL, B2B and ABB leads in fact to albums that are seemingly average or subpar. I consider Bridges To Babylon a very mediocre album because of its amount of "fillers". But if I drop off everything I do not like there would remain 37 minutes of imo great music. So there are pros and cons in putting every finished song on an album - Overall subpar impression versus the possibility to create your own definitve version.
The thing is, I'm a completist. I'd never cherry pick my favorite 10 out of 19. Filler doesn't bother me so much as sequencing. I don't consider STEEL WHEELS, VOODOO LOUNGE, or BRIDGES TO BABYLON to be mediocre efforts. A BIGGER BANG has moments that are stellar and moments that aren't, but it's biggest flaw was the brickwalling. As always, opinions are subjective. My buddy Gaslight doesn't much care for the 1990s albums whereas I'd take those two plus MAIN OFFENDER and WANDERING SPIRIT and consider them a great run despite some headhanging shame over "sharks will cry" or the Biz Markie sample. Minor quibbles in the face of strong albums in my view. Starting with GODDESS IN THE DOORWAY, I thought the tide turned and the ratio to great songs to mediocre ones shifted dramatically. I still wouldn't call it an embarrassment.
I agree with you regarding the awfull brickwalling in "A Bigger Bang".
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
Palace Revolution 2000
()
Date: July 9, 2019 12:40
I have to say HMS is making some valid points. There are pros and cons to the post '89 thinking. I don't see it much as a sequencing issue. The albums are simply too long. Blame it on CDs, and on over zealous producers. I also believe hat Keith being largely MIA in the eye of the storm has to do with this.
VL is my least favorite Stones album. Mainly because there is a lot of crap on there. The good is stellar and for me is enough - it is after all a "Stones Album". B2B is an album I love. I think it was a huge success. It did not hurt that they played lots of the album live for two years afterwards. Still there are tracks, big productions, 5-6 minute numbers that are subpar.
ABB...I think I don't even count it as a "real" Stones album. It s Jagger, an adding machine, A and D chords at 11 for 70 minutes.
VL is my least favorite Stones album. Mainly because there is a lot of crap on there. The good is stellar and for me is enough - it is after all a "Stones Album". B2B is an album I love. I think it was a huge success. It did not hurt that they played lots of the album live for two years afterwards. Still there are tracks, big productions, 5-6 minute numbers that are subpar.
ABB...I think I don't even count it as a "real" Stones album. It s Jagger, an adding machine, A and D chords at 11 for 70 minutes.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
Spud
()
Date: July 9, 2019 12:45
Quote
marquess
...A BIGGER BANG has moments that are stellar and moments that aren't, but it's biggest flaw was the brickwalling. ...
I agree with you regarding the awfull brickwalling in "A Bigger Bang".[/quote]
Listen to the version remastered to vinyl by Abbey Road for the recent 71-2016 boxed set .
It has far less compression ...and sounds like a different album.
Hugely better
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
rollmops
()
Date: July 9, 2019 12:47
Quote
Rocky DijonQuote
HMS
Of course you can say the more tracks on an album the better. You can later cherry pick your 10 favorite songs from a 19-songs album and you would probably have a great album (depending on your personal taste).
But on the other hand this "puttin (almost) everything we have on the album" in case of VL, B2B and ABB leads in fact to albums that are seemingly average or subpar. I consider Bridges To Babylon a very mediocre album because of its amount of "fillers". But if I drop off everything I do not like there would remain 37 minutes of imo great music. So there are pros and cons in putting every finished song on an album - Overall subpar impression versus the possibility to create your own definitve version.
The thing is, I'm a completist. I'd never cherry pick my favorite 10 out of 19. Filler doesn't bother me so much as sequencing. I don't consider STEEL WHEELS, VOODOO LOUNGE, or BRIDGES TO BABYLON to be mediocre efforts. A BIGGER BANG has moments that are stellar and moments that aren't, but it's biggest flaw was the brickwalling. As always, opinions are subjective. My buddy Gaslight doesn't much care for the 1990s albums whereas I'd take those two plus MAIN OFFENDER and WANDERING SPIRIT and consider them a great run despite some headhanging shame over "sharks will cry" or the Biz Markie sample. Minor quibbles in the face of strong albums in my view. Starting with GODDESS IN THE DOORWAY, I thought the tide turned and the ratio to great songs to mediocre ones shifted dramatically. I still wouldn't call it an embarrassment.
"Brickwalling"; Rocky can you explain what you mean here? I am not sure I understand correctly. Thank you, Dijon.
Rockandroll,
Mops
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: July 9, 2019 13:19
Consistent loud volume, without dynamics, mops. A trend that emerged in the 2000s, unfortunately. The music gets strangled and doesn't breathe.
Several artists, like Metallica, took it to the extreme and had to re-release albums because of complaints..
Several artists, like Metallica, took it to the extreme and had to re-release albums because of complaints..
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
Spud
()
Date: July 9, 2019 13:27
In the simplest terms "Brickwalling" is the extreme application of compression when mastering a recording for the intended playback medium.
It limits the dynamic range [difference between the loudest & softest bits] and has been increasingly used by the industry in recent years to enable louder levels overall.
Some tasteful compression of recorded peaks will almost always be required to make a recording suitable for domestic listening ...but Brick Walling is compressing the whole of the recording the whole time ...just so the entire thing can be cut louder to sound more impressive on low quality & portable playback equipment.
Many folks think that it can and does ruin many recordings that might otherwise be much more enjoyable to hear.
Does that answer enough of the question ?...or do we need the full technical debate [....not sure this thread is the place for that]
It limits the dynamic range [difference between the loudest & softest bits] and has been increasingly used by the industry in recent years to enable louder levels overall.
Some tasteful compression of recorded peaks will almost always be required to make a recording suitable for domestic listening ...but Brick Walling is compressing the whole of the recording the whole time ...just so the entire thing can be cut louder to sound more impressive on low quality & portable playback equipment.
Many folks think that it can and does ruin many recordings that might otherwise be much more enjoyable to hear.
Does that answer enough of the question ?...or do we need the full technical debate
[....not sure this thread is the place for that]Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
rollmops
()
Date: July 9, 2019 13:28
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Consistent loud volume, without dynamics, mops. A trend that emerged in the 2000s, unfortunately. The music gets strangled and doesn't breathe.
Several artists, like Metallica, took it to the extreme and had to re-release albums because of complaints..
OK. And where in ABB can one hear brickwalling? I am not arguing against the criticism , I just want to see its face. Thank you.
Rockandroll,
Mops
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
Spud
()
Date: July 9, 2019 13:43
You can hear it in the whole thing.
If you listen to music via a half decent "Hi Fi" system, Brick Walling will often manifest itself as a hard, boring, one dimensional sound....with no natural dynamics or light & shade .
It can rob both vocal & instrumental parts of any feel and subtlety .
It's not the easiest thing to describe [Dandy's description of the music not being able to breathe is a useful one ]
...but if you have the opportunity to compare a sensibly mastered recording with a Brick Walled version...the differences aren't subtle !
If you listen to music via a half decent "Hi Fi" system, Brick Walling will often manifest itself as a hard, boring, one dimensional sound....with no natural dynamics or light & shade .
It can rob both vocal & instrumental parts of any feel and subtlety .
It's not the easiest thing to describe [Dandy's description of the music not being able to breathe is a useful one ]
...but if you have the opportunity to compare a sensibly mastered recording with a Brick Walled version...the differences aren't subtle !
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
rollmops
()
Date: July 9, 2019 14:18
Quote
Spud
You can hear it in the whole thing.
If you listen to music via a half decent "Hi Fi" system, Brick Walling will often manifest itself as a hard, boring, one dimensional sound....with no natural dynamics or light & shade .
It can rob both vocal & instrumental parts of any feel and subtlety .
It's not the easiest thing to describe [Dandy's description of the music not being able to breathe is a useful one ]
...but if you have the opportunity to compare a sensibly mastered recording with a Brick Walled version...the differences aren't subtle !
Honestly I am not convinced. But I respect the musical perception if one is able to identify it.
Rockandroll,
Mops
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
Spud
()
Date: July 9, 2019 14:26
Try this analogy Mops.
Can you remember, many years ago, keith was asked in an interview what he thought of Mick's guitar playing.
Keith said he was OK but on electric he just "kind of thrashed at it" .
You probably thought...
Yes , I think I know what he means. There often isn't a lot of touch or feel in Micks sometimes rather mechanical playing.
Well Brick Wall mastering makes it sound like everybody is "thrashing" at everything !
Can you remember, many years ago, keith was asked in an interview what he thought of Mick's guitar playing.
Keith said he was OK but on electric he just "kind of thrashed at it" .
You probably thought...
Yes , I think I know what he means. There often isn't a lot of touch or feel in Micks sometimes rather mechanical playing.
Well Brick Wall mastering makes it sound like everybody is "thrashing" at everything !
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
Spud
()
Date: July 9, 2019 14:35
Quote
Maindefender
B2B deserves more love, I guess the only song I would drop is Too Tight. Would like the new album mix like B2B also.
See , that's a good example of why we shouldn't ditch anything...because somebody will like it.
I wouldn't ditch Too Tight.
Yes, its a bit of a throw away ditty...and hardly a masterpiece ...
but its got some fun Open G riffage in it ...and I can never get too much of that.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
rollmops
()
Date: July 9, 2019 14:41
Ok. I think I got it; too much musical "compression".
Rockandroll,
mops
Rockandroll,
mops
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
Nikkei
()
Date: July 9, 2019 14:44
"A Bigger Bang" is an apt title for an exercise in brickwalled mastering if you think about it
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
gotdablouse
()
Date: July 9, 2019 15:49
Quote
SpudQuote
Maindefender
B2B deserves more love, I guess the only song I would drop is Too Tight. Would like the new album mix like B2B also.
See , that's a good example of why we shouldn't ditch anything...because somebody will like it.
I wouldn't ditch Too Tight.
Yes, its a bit of a throw away ditty...and hardly a masterpiece ...
but its got some fun Open G riffage in it ...and I can never get too much of that.
Aren't the "Too Tight" guitars in standard tuning ? Hence one of the reasons it sounds so "pedestrian" ?
As for the new album, yes...the more they wait the harder it gets to put it out, georgelicks' suggestion of 2/4 songs every other year would have been fine. No risk of ruining their reputation (no one remembers Mick's useless songs from 2017) they're (rightly) worried about with the "new album" and enough "killer riffs" between them to come up with something vaguely memorable surely.
--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-07-09 15:50 by gotdablouse.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
keefriffhard4life
()
Date: July 9, 2019 15:52
Quote
gotdablouseQuote
SpudQuote
Maindefender
B2B deserves more love, I guess the only song I would drop is Too Tight. Would like the new album mix like B2B also.
See , that's a good example of why we shouldn't ditch anything...because somebody will like it.
I wouldn't ditch Too Tight.
Yes, its a bit of a throw away ditty...and hardly a masterpiece ...
but its got some fun Open G riffage in it ...and I can never get too much of that.
Aren't the "Too Tight" guitars in standard tuning ? Hence one of the reasons it sounds so "pedestrian" ?
As for the new album, yes...the more they wait the harder it gets to put it out, georgelicks' suggestion of 2/4 songs every other year would have been fine. No risk of ruining their reputation (no one remembers Mick's useless songs from 2017) they're (rightly) worried about with the "new album" and enough "killer riffs" between them to come up with something vaguely memorable surely.
I somewhat agree
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
Spud
()
Date: July 9, 2019 16:02
Quote
gotdablouse
Aren't the "Too Tight" guitars in standard tuning ? Hence one of the reasons it sounds so "pedestrian" ?
.
Not sure...haven't listened analytically... but it falls nicely under the fingers in open G with those Am & Bm voicings that Keith often employs in that tuning .
Good fun song either way
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
liddas
()
Date: July 9, 2019 18:24
Quote
SpudQuote
gotdablouse
Aren't the "Too Tight" guitars in standard tuning ? Hence one of the reasons it sounds so "pedestrian" ?
.
Not sure...haven't listened analytically... but it falls nicely under the fingers in open G with those Am & Bm voicings that Keith often employs in that tuning .
Good fun song either way
100% sure the main guitar is in open G
C
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
Spud
()
Date: July 9, 2019 19:17
I don't have the best ear in the world ...but I'd just assumed open G because of the key... and because the chord inversions fell so easily into place when you play it from memory.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: July 9, 2019 20:03
Quote
SpudQuote
marquess
...A BIGGER BANG has moments that are stellar and moments that aren't, but it's biggest flaw was the brickwalling. ...
I agree with you regarding the awfull brickwalling in "A Bigger Bang".
Listen to the version remastered to vinyl by Abbey Road for the recent 71-2016 boxed set .
It has far less compression ...and sounds like a different album.
Hugely better[/quote]
Too bad they won't offer that less compression version digitally. I'd buy it again.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: July 9, 2019 20:08
For those that have missed other threads where brickwalling is discussed, here is a great example of what it is. Brickwalling started in the 1990s with Alain Jourgensen (Ministry) making the albums as hot as possible. It turned into a thing to do. Soundgarden's last album pre-break up was one of the earlier wide commercial brickwalled albums. From there it just became the norm.
Here is a graphic that shows the difference between having an album breathe vs being brickwalled (slammed, etc):
Here is a graphic that shows the difference between having an album breathe vs being brickwalled (slammed, etc):
This Thread has been closed
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