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Hairball

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mpj200
The Stones have a licensing deal, I do believe. So the band is footing the bill for recording cost. Not Universal. And they just don’t feel they have enough good songs to run with yet. Hopefully some progress next month. But still a ways off from release.

That explains quite a few things. They're not under any pressure, they don't have to answer to anybody, and there's no deadline.
And it seems they're budgeting both their time and money towards this goal - a little bit here and a little bit there, with the main focus on making more money by touring.
If it was Universal footing the bill, perhaps the band would spend more time in the studio with a bit more urgency and focus vs. an occasional visit on the random occasion in between family time, etc.

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doitywoik
Quoted from the other thread:

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gotdablouse
Wow, maybe that's going to give Mick and Keith a wakeup call !

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When Pete Townshend’s management team came to him with a lucrative offer from Live Nation to spend much of 2019 on the road with the Who, he said he’d only agree to it under a single condition. “I said I was not going to sign any contracts unless we have new material,” says Townshend. “This has nothing to do with wanting a hit album. It has nothing to do with the fact that the Who need a new album. It’s purely personal. It’s about my pride, my sense of self-worth and self-dignity as a writer.”

[www.rollingstone.com]

Nuff said ...

Most creative artists would agree with Pete - long live rock!

Studio albums from The Who - very productive

My Generation (1965)
A Quick One (1966)
The Who Sell Out (1967)
Tommy (1969)
Who's Next (1971)
Quadrophenia (1973)
The Who by Numbers (1975)
Who Are You (1978)
Face Dances (1981)
It's Hard (1982)
Endless Wire (2006)


Then some band members solo albums, but not better or worse than Stones

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doitywoik

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nonfilter
Does anybody else remember Ronnie Wood’s son saying in late 2015-early 2016, something about having listened to the new album, and it was different than anything they had ever done, and was really gonna take people by surprise?

Can't remember that but makes me interested in the aborted album. --- Who knows? Maybe they had a good album done that really pursued new directions, and then they read this thread here with everybody demanding classic Stones, and shelved it? Maybe our own fault in the end? LOL

I’m not sure, and most here probably have a better memory than me, but I think he was talking about hearing Blue and Lonesome before it was announced that they were doing a blues cover album.

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mtaylor

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Hairball

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mpj200
The Stones have a licensing deal, I do believe. So the band is footing the bill for recording cost. Not Universal. And they just don’t feel they have enough good songs to run with yet. Hopefully some progress next month. But still a ways off from release.

That explains quite a few things. They're not under any pressure, they don't have to answer to anybody, and there's no deadline.
And it seems they're budgeting both their time and money towards this goal - a little bit here and a little bit there, with the main focus on making more money by touring.
If it was Universal footing the bill, perhaps the band would spend more time in the studio with a bit more urgency and focus vs. an occasional visit on the random occasion in between family time, etc.

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doitywoik
Quoted from the other thread:

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gotdablouse
Wow, maybe that's going to give Mick and Keith a wakeup call !

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When Pete Townshend’s management team came to him with a lucrative offer from Live Nation to spend much of 2019 on the road with the Who, he said he’d only agree to it under a single condition. “I said I was not going to sign any contracts unless we have new material,” says Townshend. “This has nothing to do with wanting a hit album. It has nothing to do with the fact that the Who need a new album. It’s purely personal. It’s about my pride, my sense of self-worth and self-dignity as a writer.”

[www.rollingstone.com]

Nuff said ...

Most creative artists would agree with Pete - long live rock!

Studio albums from The Who - very productive

My Generation (1965)
A Quick One (1966)
The Who Sell Out (1967)
Tommy (1969)
Who's Next (1971)
Quadrophenia (1973)
The Who by Numbers (1975)
Who Are You (1978)
Face Dances (1981)
It's Hard (1982)
Endless Wire (2006)


Then some band members solo albums, but not better or worse than Stones

I get the impression that Pete's solo efforts were better received than Micks.
Roger is not a writer as such, of course. Both seem to have been 'busier' solo wise than Mick and Keith but maybe not? They both seem be less isolated socially than Mick and Keith, so are seen out and about more,just an impression of course.

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ChrisL

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doitywoik

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nonfilter
Does anybody else remember Ronnie Wood’s son saying in late 2015-early 2016, something about having listened to the new album, and it was different than anything they had ever done, and was really gonna take people by surprise?

Can't remember that but makes me interested in the aborted album. ...

I’m not sure, and most here probably have a better memory than me, but I think he was talking about hearing Blue and Lonesome before it was announced that they were doing a blues cover album.

That would sure make sense!

As for long intervals between album, also Clannad (Irish folk group) had a fifteen-year-interval between Landmarks (1998) and Nádúr (2013).

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GasLightStreet
I started to write this, can't remember if I posted it somewhere else, a bunch of things happened quickly and I lost it:

They released Biggest Mistake after the 2006 tour... and never played it on the 2007 tour.

WHY BOTHER!!!!!????

Is that a first? Releasing a single and never playing it on that tour?

Well, they released Highwire in 1991 and didn't play it on their summer tour...oh wait..never mind. They did release Emotional Rescue as a single and didn't play it on the next tour....does that count? yea I think so!? I mean, it was a big hit but they chose two rockers to play instead....

For some reason I’m finding it impossible to imagine what “Emotional Rescue” would’ve sounded like in 1981-82

“GasLightStreet
I started to write this, can't remember if I posted it somewhere else, a bunch of things happened quickly and I lost it:

They released Biggest Mistake after the 2006 tour... and never played it on the 2007 tour.

WHY BOTHER!!!!!????

Is that a first? Releasing a single and never playing it on that tour?”

‘Now I'm down in a slump and I'm eating alone
I ruined the day with some friends on the phone
I never go out, I'm becoming a grouch
I just watch the TV and I drink on the couch’
And the model in the video well that is why

RUEing the day....as in regretting the day he let the woman walk out...IE--you will RUE the day...but a great track-would have been interesting to hear live.

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retired_dog

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mpj200
The Stones have a licensing deal, I do believe. So the band is footing the bill for recording cost. Not Universal. And they just don’t feel they have enough good songs to run with yet. Hopefully some progress next month. But still a ways off from release.

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Rocky Dijon
Haven't a clue about release dates. Just don't buy the "early days yet, clay not formed, go away and leave us alone" responses from Mick, Keith, and Don any more than I believe Charlie and Ronnie attend annual band meetings and tour every year and can say, "Gee, I don't know, I thought it was finished."

You don't overdub Keyon Harrold and backing vocals, much less bring in Carl Falk twice over 12 months apart to add beats to tracks that are nothing more than formless jam sessions.

There are lots of tracks being worked and reworked. It may be they are working on multiple projects or woodshedding for future use when the band is no more. It may be they and Universal determined the best time to release new material is when it is a final statement.

Some of Mick's sessions have been working from his various homes, but all those dates at British Grove and Germano to say nothing of Henson Studios in L.A. or Twin Studios in Paris and the cost of Don Was and Carl Falk's time is costing Universal. I don't think they let them putter around and then say, "gee this isn't anything yet. Oh well, keep doing what you're doing and send us the bill."

Whether it's the press or whether it's the information pipeline within the company, they figured out they want to shut down leaks where possible and control the narrative.

We're not getting the truth. That doesn't mean a new album or an EP before the tour, but things have progressed far more than they're letting on. This disinformation has been the norm from the beginning.

The only wall we've hit that matters is the one keeping our noses out of their business.

Apart from that, we can stick to "Mick has writer's block" or "Mick writes crap songs while Keith is a genius" or "Keith is arthritic and useless." Everyone should be happy to continue posting "the album will never happen, bring on page 500" or blaming everything on "family-time or Mick's cameo in a movie."

I think our collective frustration has more to do with their comments than it does the reality of their progress. Sure we want it now like the spoiled brats we are, but I think our fears that over three years of effort have produced only jam sessions is a blatant fallacy.

Yes, studio bills go to Promotone. Otherwise, Universal would pay for something they don't own because they just license it from them - and once the licensing deal runs out, it's gone.

______________________________________


See the bold above... Very true.


People think The Stones have Universal pay for Don Was at British Grove Studios or Henson just so they can jam is a fantasy. They ARE The Rolling Stones ..and they DO get 20 times the slack and fixins than other acts ...BUT as we discussed ..business is business and scheduling and then renting world-class studios over the course of three years with world-class producers ...engineers and staff to jam or toss around some unpromising demos over and over isn't reality.


The demos and Jams get worked on usually at locations other than these. The renting of a studio with an engineer and staff usually only occurs when they decide they have some strong songs to rehearse and then record. No record company is going to pay for an act at these places, with producers, staff etc. with nothing to show or go on over and over lol .. These places are not booked until there is good 'basis' with material to go on. Perhaps the situation may occur once to get things started but they are not going to continue to pay without good progress. That goes for The Stones.. that goes for anyone. This is money and not to sound pompas or all knowing but this is the real world .. with producers, engineers and that have schedules and other big money obligations. They are not sitting at home or toying around in some studio looking for work or waiting on The Stones to ring them. They slot themselves in-between other big money obligations.

They are not called upon just to have jam sessions with any group or just to toss around some unpromising demos. These guys (and the studios that are paid for)... are there to do a job with a goal in mind with the label paying the bill....period.


Coming away with nothing is not going to go over with a label.

Songs are usually written and solid enough to rehearse and record BEFORE anyone is scheduled or ANY place is rented ... That's just reality and how the biz works.

I can guarantee that there is plenty more than rough demos in the can at this point. Im not saying all the material is 100% supreme record worthy stuff but I can guarantee you .. If yet another session is booked for February and due to the fact of all the others .. they have stuff that is solid and / or very promising for record worthy stuff by now.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2019-01-12 04:58 by IanBillen.

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IanBillen
I can guarantee that there is plenty more than rough demos in the can at this point.

You would think so after all this time!

Maybe Keith has had second thoughts on everything that's been completed thus far?

"Like I say, early stages. I would say if I'm looking at it, we're going to do this tour, so maybe this time next year, I would say.
Maybe. That looks like a reasonable projection." - Keith

Or maybe Mick has had a change of heart?

:And they just don’t feel they have enough good songs to run with yet. Hopefully some progress next month. But still a ways off from release". - mpj200


Whatever the case, clearly they're not pleased with the direction this has been going, but February could make a difference.
Maybe they'll narrow it all down to one song in order to put some final touches on a single for the upcoming tour?

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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Hairball

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IanBillen
I can guarantee that there is plenty more than rough demos in the can at this point.

You would think so after all this time!

Maybe Keith has had second thoughts on everything that's been completed thus far?

"Like I say, early stages. I would say if I'm looking at it, we're going to do this tour, so maybe this time next year, I would say.
Maybe. That looks like a reasonable projection." - Keith

Or maybe Mick has had a change of heart?

:And they just don’t feel they have enough good songs to run with yet. Hopefully some progress next month. But still a ways off from release". - mpj200


Whatever the case, clearly they're not pleased with the direction this has been going, but February could make a difference.
Maybe they'll narrow it all down to one song in order to put some final touches on a single for the upcoming tour?

No. As I wrote some weeks ago here, they work on all kinds of material - new songs and outtakes from the past, trying to fix as many "loose ends" they have gathered in past decades as possible.

They work on all these recordings while they still can and whenever they're up for it. No pressure. Considering their age, the time to do all this is now, in fact they've been doing this for a while now.

However, they're not doing all this just for the fun of it, they're not jamming around aimlessly. In case it would lead to simply nothing or only unsatisfactory results, they would not waste their time and money anymore in a hopeless search for the holy grail.

As chaotic as it all may look from the outside, they have a plan: They're hoarding releasable material, new songs, finished outtakes. They don't have just "the new album" in mind, which will no doubt appear one day, at a time that makes the most sense for them. Just like all the other stuff. Just not in one go.

This may also give a clue why the GHS and TY Deluxe releases Don Was claimed he was working on did not appear.

Do they need new material for touring? That's our way of thinking, not theirs.

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retired_dog
Do they need new material for touring? That's our way of thinking, not theirs.

This became obvious in the past so-and-so many years anyway. In addition, there's the question how much new material they could incorporate in their set lists in a presentable way. The stuff/way they are playing presently, they can do on autopilot.

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retired_dog

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Hairball

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IanBillen
I can guarantee that there is plenty more than rough demos in the can at this point.

You would think so after all this time!

Maybe Keith has had second thoughts on everything that's been completed thus far?

"Like I say, early stages. I would say if I'm looking at it, we're going to do this tour, so maybe this time next year, I would say.
Maybe. That looks like a reasonable projection." - Keith

Or maybe Mick has had a change of heart?

:And they just don’t feel they have enough good songs to run with yet. Hopefully some progress next month. But still a ways off from release". - mpj200


Whatever the case, clearly they're not pleased with the direction this has been going, but February could make a difference.
Maybe they'll narrow it all down to one song in order to put some final touches on a single for the upcoming tour?

No. As I wrote some weeks ago here, they work on all kinds of material - new songs and outtakes from the past, trying to fix as many "loose ends" they have gathered in past decades as possible.

They work on all these recordings while they still can and whenever they're up for it. No pressure. Considering their age, the time to do all this is now, in fact they've been doing this for a while now.

However, they're not doing all this just for the fun of it, they're not jamming around aimlessly. In case it would lead to simply nothing or only unsatisfactory results, they would not waste their time and money anymore in a hopeless search for the holy grail.

As chaotic as it all may look from the outside, they have a plan: They're hoarding releasable material, new songs, finished outtakes. They don't have just "the new album" in mind, which will no doubt appear one day, at a time that makes the most sense for them. Just like all the other stuff. Just not in one go.

This may also give a clue why the GHS and TY Deluxe releases Don Was claimed he was working on did not appear.

Do they need new material for touring? That's our way of thinking, not theirs.

I'd use the best 10/12 outtakes/unfinished tracks to make "new" album à la Tattoo You.
They could do 3/4 really good albums
like this and put these projects in the hands of Chris Kimsey.
That's my dream!

They recorded a bunch of material to hoard for future releases when Keith was facing jail in '77 too, if I remember correctly.

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Hairball

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IanBillen
I can guarantee that there is plenty more than rough demos in the can at this point.

You would think so after all this time!

Maybe Keith has had second thoughts on everything that's been completed thus far?

"Like I say, early stages. I would say if I'm looking at it, we're going to do this tour, so maybe this time next year, I would say.
Maybe. That looks like a reasonable projection." - Keith

Or maybe Mick has had a change of heart?

:And they just don’t feel they have enough good songs to run with yet. Hopefully some progress next month. But still a ways off from release". - mpj200


Whatever the case, clearly they're not pleased with the direction this has been going, but February could make a difference.
Maybe they'll narrow it all down to one song in order to put some final touches on a single for the upcoming tour?

_____________________________________


Yezzer ... I agree... Clearly they feel it is not up to snuff just yet or arent sure as to how to peice it together direction wise.

For what little it's worth, I think retired dog is 100% correct.

Blue and Lonesome is new material. Except for mini tour 2016, the US has not heard those songs live. Therefore new songs will be played......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-01-12 18:41 by Maindefender.

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peoplewitheyes
They recorded a bunch of material to hoard for future releases when Keith was facing jail in '77 too, if I remember correctly.

But it seems that Artists generally put out their best work within a short time frame of its original recording.
If The Stones finish off by releasing outtakes/unfinished or tarted up tracks...what would it do for their Legacy?
The Beatles Anthology Vols 1 to 3 was worth getting (as a Beatles fan) but it proved the best recordings were all put out when they were active.
This has generally been the case with releases by other Legacy acts since.
(I accept that Live albums/DVD releases are a different matter).

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jlowe
But it seems that Artists generally put out their best work within a short time frame of its original recording.
If The Stones finish off by releasing outtakes/unfinished or tarted up tracks...what would it do for their Legacy?

Has EXILE or SOME GIRLS DELUXE hurt their legacy? Most people here (admittedly, not representative of the general public, gratefully) won't even count any of the material recorded since A BIGGER BANG (including BLUE AND LONESOME) so they can keep on complaining that those ridiculously lazy old 75 year olds have now gone 14 years without a new album. Did TATTOO YOU hurt their legacy? We'll get a new album and likely either a box set or two disc set when it makes sense to maximize sales. Their legacy is HOT ROCKS and JUMP BACK, not anything they do at the end of their career.

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jlowe

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peoplewitheyes
They recorded a bunch of material to hoard for future releases when Keith was facing jail in '77 too, if I remember correctly.

But it seems that Artists generally put out their best work within a short time frame of its original recording.
If The Stones finish off by releasing outtakes/unfinished or tarted up tracks...what would it do for their Legacy?
The Beatles Anthology Vols 1 to 3 was worth getting (as a Beatles fan) but it proved the best recordings were all put out when they were active.
This has generally been the case with releases by other Legacy acts since.
(I accept that Live albums/DVD releases are a different matter).

I prefer relevant old songs in a good shape on an album (Tattoo you) rather than Live album number 20 or so. Live album from post 1975 shows are not worth listening to. If you want live music go to a concert.

Fair enough, if they do not want to publish more albums fine with me. Most bands are like that - even The Who as a band have not been that productive.

As a solo artist, it easier to publish new albums because it is only your self that decides (Macca, Springsteen, Neil Young etc.)

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Rocky Dijon

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jlowe
But it seems that Artists generally put out their best work within a short time frame of its original recording.
If The Stones finish off by releasing outtakes/unfinished or tarted up tracks...what would it do for their Legacy?

Has EXILE or SOME GIRLS DELUXE hurt their legacy? Most people here (admittedly, not representative of the general public, gratefully) won't even count any of the material recorded since A BIGGER BANG (including BLUE AND LONESOME) so they can keep on complaining that those ridiculously lazy old 75 year olds have now gone 14 years without a new album. Did TATTOO YOU hurt their legacy? We'll get a new album and likely either a box set or two disc set when it makes sense to maximize sales. Their legacy is HOT ROCKS and JUMP BACK, not anything they do at the end of their career.

Surely, to maximise sales itwould have been sensible to:
1. Release to coincide with a concert tour, or
2. Release November for the Chrismas market or
3. Not leave it too late as core fans are pegging out and others are getting less inclined to buy records any more.

So, from a pure business sense a release in 2012 to tie in with the 50 tour and another album this year to coincide with this years jaunt would make more sense.
Of course, they have so much dosh that financial rationale is not perhaps a key factor in their decision making.
So, some free concerts for charity would be nice.

While I agree, there's two obvious reasons not to go with your sensible approach.


1.) A cohesive album with material both Mick and Keith, their producer, and their label are happy with is not here yet.


2.) The prospect of strong sales for the first week, maybe the first month vs. the impact of holding it back to release when public interest is at a peak because there's no chance of ever seeing them again probably shouldn't be discounted.


And as for charity shows...this isn't The Who, you know...

If the Stones are waiting for a better time to release old outtakes or box sets, sadly that ship has sailed, nowadays nobody buys records anymore except people over 40/45 or die hard fans, a big hit record sell 2 o 3 million copies worldwide these days, 70% of the market is streaming and it will be 80-90% in a couple of years.

The right time to put out outtakes or box sets was 1994-2005/10 or so when record sales were on an all time peak, the Beatles released the Anthology series during the right time and it was a success with over 16 million copies sold, their recent archive releases (Pepper/White Album) were #1 or Top 5 everywere but both failed to even reach 1 million copies sold worldwide.

Queen is peaking on popularity thanks to the movie, but 90% of the success is thanks to streaming of the big hits, the soundtrack has sold only 800k worldwide, but Bohemian Rhapsody has over 15m streams each week only on Youtube.

A Stones new record could sell again 2 million copies as B&L if they release it during the Christmas season, there's no market worldwide to sell more than that.

Any archive stuff would sell 500-800k worldwide at best, there's no market worldwide to sell more than that.

If anything happens to any of the Stones, their back catalog would explode on the streaming market, Gimme Shelter, Paint It Black or Start Me Up would reach the top of the charts worldwide with millions of streams, but not more than 1 or 2 million people worldwide would buy any new or old stuff, again there's no market for more than that.

The more they wait to release new or old stuff, the less they sell due to lack of market/demand for physical material.

Meanwhile the songs on Hot Rocks reach 5-6 million streams each week only in the US, enough to keep the album charting on the Billboard 200 almost each week during the past year, the same in the UK, that's their legacy.

The only thing that reassures me is that some fans will not decide, but will be the Rolling Stones, this is very reassuring. I'm not in a hurry ... usually those who go slowly go far!

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diverseharmonics

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GasLightStreet
I started to write this, can't remember if I posted it somewhere else, a bunch of things happened quickly and I lost it:

They released Biggest Mistake after the 2006 tour... and never played it on the 2007 tour.

WHY BOTHER!!!!!????

Is that a first? Releasing a single and never playing it on that tour?

Well, they released Highwire in 1991 and didn't play it on their summer tour...oh wait..never mind. They did release Emotional Rescue as a single and didn't play it on the next tour....does that count? yea I think so!? I mean, it was a big hit but they chose two rockers to play instead....

From the LP they're touring...

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georgelicks
If the Stones are waiting for a better time to release old outtakes or box sets, sadly that ship has sailed, nowadays nobody buys records anymore except people over 40/45 or die hard fans, a big hit record sell 2 o 3 million copies worldwide these days, 70% of the market is streaming and it will be 80-90% in a couple of years.

The right time to put out outtakes or box sets was 1994-2005/10 or so when record sales were on an all time peak, the Beatles released the Anthology series during the right time and it was a success with over 16 million copies sold, their recent archive releases (Pepper/White Album) were #1 or Top 5 everywere but both failed to even reach 1 million copies sold worldwide.

Queen is peaking on popularity thanks to the movie, but 90% of the success is thanks to streaming of the big hits, the soundtrack has sold only 800k worldwide, but Bohemian Rhapsody has over 15m streams each week only on Youtube.

A Stones new record could sell again 2 million copies as B&L if they release it during the Christmas season, there's no market worldwide to sell more than that.

Any archive stuff would sell 500-800k worldwide at best, there's no market worldwide to sell more than that.

If anything happens to any of the Stones, their back catalog would explode on the streaming market, Gimme Shelter, Paint It Black or Start Me Up would reach the top of the charts worldwide with millions of streams, but not more than 1 or 2 million people worldwide would buy any new or old stuff, again there's no market for more than that.

The more they wait to release new or old stuff, the less they sell due to lack of market/demand for physical material.

Meanwhile the songs on Hot Rocks reach 5-6 million streams each week only in the US, enough to keep the album charting on the Billboard 200 almost each week during the past year, the same in the UK, that's their legacy.

So Mister Licks, r u saying that they are not releasing any new material because no one (younger folks anyway) will stream it? Is it solely a financially based decision?


plexi

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georgelicks
If the Stones are waiting for a better time to release old outtakes or box sets, sadly that ship has sailed, nowadays nobody buys records anymore except people over 40/45 or die hard fans, a big hit record sell 2 o 3 million copies worldwide these days, 70% of the market is streaming and it will be 80-90% in a couple of years.

The right time to put out outtakes or box sets was 1994-2005/10 or so when record sales were on an all time peak, the Beatles released the Anthology series during the right time and it was a success with over 16 million copies sold, their recent archive releases (Pepper/White Album) were #1 or Top 5 everywere but both failed to even reach 1 million copies sold worldwide.

Queen is peaking on popularity thanks to the movie, but 90% of the success is thanks to streaming of the big hits, the soundtrack has sold only 800k worldwide, but Bohemian Rhapsody has over 15m streams each week only on Youtube.

A Stones new record could sell again 2 million copies as B&L if they release it during the Christmas season, there's no market worldwide to sell more than that.

Any archive stuff would sell 500-800k worldwide at best, there's no market worldwide to sell more than that.

If anything happens to any of the Stones, their back catalog would explode on the streaming market, Gimme Shelter, Paint It Black or Start Me Up would reach the top of the charts worldwide with millions of streams, but not more than 1 or 2 million people worldwide would buy any new or old stuff, again there's no market for more than that.

The more they wait to release new or old stuff, the less they sell due to lack of market/demand for physical material.

Meanwhile the songs on Hot Rocks reach 5-6 million streams each week only in the US, enough to keep the album charting on the Billboard 200 almost each week during the past year, the same in the UK, that's their legacy.

I do not think this interests the Stones a lot, they always made the money playing in concerts, if it were for the earnings of cd-dvd discs the Stones would be poor.

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So Mister Licks, r u saying that they are not releasing any new material because no one (younger folks anyway) will stream it? Is it solely a financially based decision?

No, just another reason to not to, in a long list of reasons.

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georgelicks
If the Stones are waiting for a better time to release old outtakes or box sets, sadly that ship has sailed, nowadays nobody buys records anymore except people over 40/45 or die hard fans, a big hit record sell 2 o 3 million copies worldwide these days, 70% of the market is streaming and it will be 80-90% in a couple of years.

The right time to put out outtakes or box sets was 1994-2005/10 or so when record sales were on an all time peak, the Beatles released the Anthology series during the right time and it was a success with over 16 million copies sold, their recent archive releases (Pepper/White Album) were #1 or Top 5 everywere but both failed to even reach 1 million copies sold worldwide.

Queen is peaking on popularity thanks to the movie, but 90% of the success is thanks to streaming of the big hits, the soundtrack has sold only 800k worldwide, but Bohemian Rhapsody has over 15m streams each week only on Youtube.

A Stones new record could sell again 2 million copies as B&L if they release it during the Christmas season, there's no market worldwide to sell more than that.

Any archive stuff would sell 500-800k worldwide at best, there's no market worldwide to sell more than that.

If anything happens to any of the Stones, their back catalog would explode on the streaming market, Gimme Shelter, Paint It Black or Start Me Up would reach the top of the charts worldwide with millions of streams, but not more than 1 or 2 million people worldwide would buy any new or old stuff, again there's no market for more than that.

The more they wait to release new or old stuff, the less they sell due to lack of market/demand for physical material.

Meanwhile the songs on Hot Rocks reach 5-6 million streams each week only in the US, enough to keep the album charting on the Billboard 200 almost each week during the past year, the same in the UK, that's their legacy.

All this is very true. Only too true, I'd like to add, because (as a fan) I regret this development. In fact, some decades ago, when I discussed the prospects of Stones archive exploitation with Virgin execs I was quite put off by the fact that they were substantially more thrilled by the prospect of a new greatest hits compilation in the talks (what became 40 Licks two years or so later). Probably even understandable after the commercial desaster that No Security really was - a live album with a tracklist aimed directly at fans (not even Universal cared or even dared to re-release it until now). In business terms, the timespan you mentioned (1994-2005/10) as the best for archive releases were also the likely most lucrative years for the band - generating massive income from extensive touring, years that showed them that new material - while nice to have to neglect "oldie band status" was not really necessary to sell tickets, not to even mention archive projects. While the Beatles Anthology sales were indeed quite impressive, for the Stones the extra income was not a necessity, so "let's save this for later, who knows what the future brings".

It's no coincidence that around the time they scaled their business down due to substantially lesser live shows since "50..and counting!", the long awaited and (for us fans overdue) exploitation of their archives gained steam. They gave us some nuggets, but there was also the sense that they're holding a lot of interesting material back, apart from SG and Exile Deluxe studio outtakes were almost missing in action, plus some of these fans' wet dream live shows from their glory days.

The next substantial drop in their income will inevitably appear once they give up touring or are forced to stop touring. Go figure.

I'm not saying that any music they could posssibly put out will have better sales in a couple of years than now. Far from it. I'm just saying that while they're still touring, they don't exactly need the extra income from material that could be better used in future to help keeping the interest in their catalog as a whole alive for some years to come. They won't release all this in a huge box set, it will more likely sprinkle out over the years. I have enough versions of Exile that I probably won't ever buy it again, no matter how "perfectly remastered" any new version will be. But a download code for a "recently discovered" new track coming free with a new edition could tempt me...

In the same way they don't "need" a new album right now. If it surprisingly appears any time soon, it will be a nice gesture to their fans worldwide and (hopefully) an artistic statement, but a necessity? For us, yes, but not for them.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2019-01-13 18:56 by retired_dog.

Quote
diverseharmonics
RUEing the day....as in regretting the day he let the woman walk out...IE--you will RUE the day...but a great track-would have been interesting to hear live.

I’m sorry, are you referring to a lyric?
Also, thank you for the interesting posts georgelicks and retireddog



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2019-01-13 07:05 by 35love.