For information about how to use this forum please check out forum help and policies.
Quote
HairballQuote
mpj200
The Stones have a licensing deal, I do believe. So the band is footing the bill for recording cost. Not Universal. And they just don’t feel they have enough good songs to run with yet. Hopefully some progress next month. But still a ways off from release.
That explains quite a few things. They're not under any pressure, they don't have to answer to anybody, and there's no deadline.
And it seems they're budgeting both their time and money towards this goal - a little bit here and a little bit there, with the main focus on making more money by touring.
If it was Universal footing the bill, perhaps the band would spend more time in the studio with a bit more urgency and focus vs. an occasional visit on the random occasion in between family time, etc.Quote
doitywoik
Quoted from the other thread:Quote
gotdablouse
Wow, maybe that's going to give Mick and Keith a wakeup call !Quote
When Pete Townshend’s management team came to him with a lucrative offer from Live Nation to spend much of 2019 on the road with the Who, he said he’d only agree to it under a single condition. “I said I was not going to sign any contracts unless we have new material,” says Townshend. “This has nothing to do with wanting a hit album. It has nothing to do with the fact that the Who need a new album. It’s purely personal. It’s about my pride, my sense of self-worth and self-dignity as a writer.”
[www.rollingstone.com]
Nuff said ...
Most creative artists would agree with Pete - long live rock!
Quote
doitywoikQuote
nonfilter
Does anybody else remember Ronnie Wood’s son saying in late 2015-early 2016, something about having listened to the new album, and it was different than anything they had ever done, and was really gonna take people by surprise?
Can't remember that but makes me interested in the aborted album. --- Who knows? Maybe they had a good album done that really pursued new directions, and then they read this thread here with everybody demanding classic Stones, and shelved it? Maybe our own fault in the end? LOL
Quote
mtaylorQuote
HairballQuote
mpj200
The Stones have a licensing deal, I do believe. So the band is footing the bill for recording cost. Not Universal. And they just don’t feel they have enough good songs to run with yet. Hopefully some progress next month. But still a ways off from release.
That explains quite a few things. They're not under any pressure, they don't have to answer to anybody, and there's no deadline.
And it seems they're budgeting both their time and money towards this goal - a little bit here and a little bit there, with the main focus on making more money by touring.
If it was Universal footing the bill, perhaps the band would spend more time in the studio with a bit more urgency and focus vs. an occasional visit on the random occasion in between family time, etc.Quote
doitywoik
Quoted from the other thread:Quote
gotdablouse
Wow, maybe that's going to give Mick and Keith a wakeup call !Quote
When Pete Townshend’s management team came to him with a lucrative offer from Live Nation to spend much of 2019 on the road with the Who, he said he’d only agree to it under a single condition. “I said I was not going to sign any contracts unless we have new material,” says Townshend. “This has nothing to do with wanting a hit album. It has nothing to do with the fact that the Who need a new album. It’s purely personal. It’s about my pride, my sense of self-worth and self-dignity as a writer.”
[www.rollingstone.com]
Nuff said ...
Most creative artists would agree with Pete - long live rock!
Studio albums from The Who - very productive
My Generation (1965)
A Quick One (1966)
The Who Sell Out (1967)
Tommy (1969)
Who's Next (1971)
Quadrophenia (1973)
The Who by Numbers (1975)
Who Are You (1978)
Face Dances (1981)
It's Hard (1982)
Endless Wire (2006)
Then some band members solo albums, but not better or worse than Stones
Quote
ChrisLQuote
doitywoikQuote
nonfilter
Does anybody else remember Ronnie Wood’s son saying in late 2015-early 2016, something about having listened to the new album, and it was different than anything they had ever done, and was really gonna take people by surprise?
Can't remember that but makes me interested in the aborted album. ...
I’m not sure, and most here probably have a better memory than me, but I think he was talking about hearing Blue and Lonesome before it was announced that they were doing a blues cover album.
Well, they released Highwire in 1991 and didn't play it on their summer tour...oh wait..never mind. They did release Emotional Rescue as a single and didn't play it on the next tour....does that count? yea I think so!? I mean, it was a big hit but they chose two rockers to play instead....Quote
GasLightStreet
I started to write this, can't remember if I posted it somewhere else, a bunch of things happened quickly and I lost it:
They released Biggest Mistake after the 2006 tour... and never played it on the 2007 tour.
WHY BOTHER!!!!!????
Is that a first? Releasing a single and never playing it on that tour?
Quote
retired_dogQuote
mpj200
The Stones have a licensing deal, I do believe. So the band is footing the bill for recording cost. Not Universal. And they just don’t feel they have enough good songs to run with yet. Hopefully some progress next month. But still a ways off from release.Quote
Rocky Dijon
Haven't a clue about release dates. Just don't buy the "early days yet, clay not formed, go away and leave us alone" responses from Mick, Keith, and Don any more than I believe Charlie and Ronnie attend annual band meetings and tour every year and can say, "Gee, I don't know, I thought it was finished."
You don't overdub Keyon Harrold and backing vocals, much less bring in Carl Falk twice over 12 months apart to add beats to tracks that are nothing more than formless jam sessions.
There are lots of tracks being worked and reworked. It may be they are working on multiple projects or woodshedding for future use when the band is no more. It may be they and Universal determined the best time to release new material is when it is a final statement.
Some of Mick's sessions have been working from his various homes, but all those dates at British Grove and Germano to say nothing of Henson Studios in L.A. or Twin Studios in Paris and the cost of Don Was and Carl Falk's time is costing Universal. I don't think they let them putter around and then say, "gee this isn't anything yet. Oh well, keep doing what you're doing and send us the bill."
Whether it's the press or whether it's the information pipeline within the company, they figured out they want to shut down leaks where possible and control the narrative.
We're not getting the truth. That doesn't mean a new album or an EP before the tour, but things have progressed far more than they're letting on. This disinformation has been the norm from the beginning.
The only wall we've hit that matters is the one keeping our noses out of their business.
Apart from that, we can stick to "Mick has writer's block" or "Mick writes crap songs while Keith is a genius" or "Keith is arthritic and useless." Everyone should be happy to continue posting "the album will never happen, bring on page 500" or blaming everything on "family-time or Mick's cameo in a movie."
I think our collective frustration has more to do with their comments than it does the reality of their progress. Sure we want it now like the spoiled brats we are, but I think our fears that over three years of effort have produced only jam sessions is a blatant fallacy.
Yes, studio bills go to Promotone. Otherwise, Universal would pay for something they don't own because they just license it from them - and once the licensing deal runs out, it's gone.
You would think so after all this time!Quote
IanBillen
I can guarantee that there is plenty more than rough demos in the can at this point.
Quote
HairballYou would think so after all this time!Quote
IanBillen
I can guarantee that there is plenty more than rough demos in the can at this point.
Maybe Keith has had second thoughts on everything that's been completed thus far?
"Like I say, early stages. I would say if I'm looking at it, we're going to do this tour, so maybe this time next year, I would say.
Maybe. That looks like a reasonable projection." - Keith
Or maybe Mick has had a change of heart?
:And they just don’t feel they have enough good songs to run with yet. Hopefully some progress next month. But still a ways off from release". - mpj200
Whatever the case, clearly they're not pleased with the direction this has been going, but February could make a difference.
Maybe they'll narrow it all down to one song in order to put some final touches on a single for the upcoming tour?
Quote
retired_dog
Do they need new material for touring? That's our way of thinking, not theirs.
Quote
retired_dogQuote
HairballYou would think so after all this time!Quote
IanBillen
I can guarantee that there is plenty more than rough demos in the can at this point.
Maybe Keith has had second thoughts on everything that's been completed thus far?
"Like I say, early stages. I would say if I'm looking at it, we're going to do this tour, so maybe this time next year, I would say.
Maybe. That looks like a reasonable projection." - Keith
Or maybe Mick has had a change of heart?
:And they just don’t feel they have enough good songs to run with yet. Hopefully some progress next month. But still a ways off from release". - mpj200
Whatever the case, clearly they're not pleased with the direction this has been going, but February could make a difference.
Maybe they'll narrow it all down to one song in order to put some final touches on a single for the upcoming tour?
No. As I wrote some weeks ago here, they work on all kinds of material - new songs and outtakes from the past, trying to fix as many "loose ends" they have gathered in past decades as possible.
They work on all these recordings while they still can and whenever they're up for it. No pressure. Considering their age, the time to do all this is now, in fact they've been doing this for a while now.
However, they're not doing all this just for the fun of it, they're not jamming around aimlessly. In case it would lead to simply nothing or only unsatisfactory results, they would not waste their time and money anymore in a hopeless search for the holy grail.
As chaotic as it all may look from the outside, they have a plan: They're hoarding releasable material, new songs, finished outtakes. They don't have just "the new album" in mind, which will no doubt appear one day, at a time that makes the most sense for them. Just like all the other stuff. Just not in one go.
This may also give a clue why the GHS and TY Deluxe releases Don Was claimed he was working on did not appear.
Do they need new material for touring? That's our way of thinking, not theirs.
Quote
HairballYou would think so after all this time!Quote
IanBillen
I can guarantee that there is plenty more than rough demos in the can at this point.
Maybe Keith has had second thoughts on everything that's been completed thus far?
"Like I say, early stages. I would say if I'm looking at it, we're going to do this tour, so maybe this time next year, I would say.
Maybe. That looks like a reasonable projection." - Keith
Or maybe Mick has had a change of heart?
:And they just don’t feel they have enough good songs to run with yet. Hopefully some progress next month. But still a ways off from release". - mpj200
Whatever the case, clearly they're not pleased with the direction this has been going, but February could make a difference.
Maybe they'll narrow it all down to one song in order to put some final touches on a single for the upcoming tour?
Quote
peoplewitheyes
They recorded a bunch of material to hoard for future releases when Keith was facing jail in '77 too, if I remember correctly.
Quote
jlowe
But it seems that Artists generally put out their best work within a short time frame of its original recording.
If The Stones finish off by releasing outtakes/unfinished or tarted up tracks...what would it do for their Legacy?
Quote
jloweQuote
peoplewitheyes
They recorded a bunch of material to hoard for future releases when Keith was facing jail in '77 too, if I remember correctly.
But it seems that Artists generally put out their best work within a short time frame of its original recording.
If The Stones finish off by releasing outtakes/unfinished or tarted up tracks...what would it do for their Legacy?
The Beatles Anthology Vols 1 to 3 was worth getting (as a Beatles fan) but it proved the best recordings were all put out when they were active.
This has generally been the case with releases by other Legacy acts since.
(I accept that Live albums/DVD releases are a different matter).
Quote
Rocky DijonQuote
jlowe
But it seems that Artists generally put out their best work within a short time frame of its original recording.
If The Stones finish off by releasing outtakes/unfinished or tarted up tracks...what would it do for their Legacy?
Has EXILE or SOME GIRLS DELUXE hurt their legacy? Most people here (admittedly, not representative of the general public, gratefully) won't even count any of the material recorded since A BIGGER BANG (including BLUE AND LONESOME) so they can keep on complaining that those ridiculously lazy old 75 year olds have now gone 14 years without a new album. Did TATTOO YOU hurt their legacy? We'll get a new album and likely either a box set or two disc set when it makes sense to maximize sales. Their legacy is HOT ROCKS and JUMP BACK, not anything they do at the end of their career.
Quote
diverseharmonicsWell, they released Highwire in 1991 and didn't play it on their summer tour...oh wait..never mind. They did release Emotional Rescue as a single and didn't play it on the next tour....does that count? yea I think so!? I mean, it was a big hit but they chose two rockers to play instead....Quote
GasLightStreet
I started to write this, can't remember if I posted it somewhere else, a bunch of things happened quickly and I lost it:
They released Biggest Mistake after the 2006 tour... and never played it on the 2007 tour.
WHY BOTHER!!!!!????
Is that a first? Releasing a single and never playing it on that tour?
Quote
georgelicks
If the Stones are waiting for a better time to release old outtakes or box sets, sadly that ship has sailed, nowadays nobody buys records anymore except people over 40/45 or die hard fans, a big hit record sell 2 o 3 million copies worldwide these days, 70% of the market is streaming and it will be 80-90% in a couple of years.
The right time to put out outtakes or box sets was 1994-2005/10 or so when record sales were on an all time peak, the Beatles released the Anthology series during the right time and it was a success with over 16 million copies sold, their recent archive releases (Pepper/White Album) were #1 or Top 5 everywere but both failed to even reach 1 million copies sold worldwide.
Queen is peaking on popularity thanks to the movie, but 90% of the success is thanks to streaming of the big hits, the soundtrack has sold only 800k worldwide, but Bohemian Rhapsody has over 15m streams each week only on Youtube.
A Stones new record could sell again 2 million copies as B&L if they release it during the Christmas season, there's no market worldwide to sell more than that.
Any archive stuff would sell 500-800k worldwide at best, there's no market worldwide to sell more than that.
If anything happens to any of the Stones, their back catalog would explode on the streaming market, Gimme Shelter, Paint It Black or Start Me Up would reach the top of the charts worldwide with millions of streams, but not more than 1 or 2 million people worldwide would buy any new or old stuff, again there's no market for more than that.
The more they wait to release new or old stuff, the less they sell due to lack of market/demand for physical material.
Meanwhile the songs on Hot Rocks reach 5-6 million streams each week only in the US, enough to keep the album charting on the Billboard 200 almost each week during the past year, the same in the UK, that's their legacy.
I do not think this interests the Stones a lot, they always made the money playing in concerts, if it were for the earnings of cd-dvd discs the Stones would be poor.Quote
georgelicks
If the Stones are waiting for a better time to release old outtakes or box sets, sadly that ship has sailed, nowadays nobody buys records anymore except people over 40/45 or die hard fans, a big hit record sell 2 o 3 million copies worldwide these days, 70% of the market is streaming and it will be 80-90% in a couple of years.
The right time to put out outtakes or box sets was 1994-2005/10 or so when record sales were on an all time peak, the Beatles released the Anthology series during the right time and it was a success with over 16 million copies sold, their recent archive releases (Pepper/White Album) were #1 or Top 5 everywere but both failed to even reach 1 million copies sold worldwide.
Queen is peaking on popularity thanks to the movie, but 90% of the success is thanks to streaming of the big hits, the soundtrack has sold only 800k worldwide, but Bohemian Rhapsody has over 15m streams each week only on Youtube.
A Stones new record could sell again 2 million copies as B&L if they release it during the Christmas season, there's no market worldwide to sell more than that.
Any archive stuff would sell 500-800k worldwide at best, there's no market worldwide to sell more than that.
If anything happens to any of the Stones, their back catalog would explode on the streaming market, Gimme Shelter, Paint It Black or Start Me Up would reach the top of the charts worldwide with millions of streams, but not more than 1 or 2 million people worldwide would buy any new or old stuff, again there's no market for more than that.
The more they wait to release new or old stuff, the less they sell due to lack of market/demand for physical material.
Meanwhile the songs on Hot Rocks reach 5-6 million streams each week only in the US, enough to keep the album charting on the Billboard 200 almost each week during the past year, the same in the UK, that's their legacy.
Quote
So Mister Licks, r u saying that they are not releasing any new material because no one (younger folks anyway) will stream it? Is it solely a financially based decision?
Quote
georgelicks
If the Stones are waiting for a better time to release old outtakes or box sets, sadly that ship has sailed, nowadays nobody buys records anymore except people over 40/45 or die hard fans, a big hit record sell 2 o 3 million copies worldwide these days, 70% of the market is streaming and it will be 80-90% in a couple of years.
The right time to put out outtakes or box sets was 1994-2005/10 or so when record sales were on an all time peak, the Beatles released the Anthology series during the right time and it was a success with over 16 million copies sold, their recent archive releases (Pepper/White Album) were #1 or Top 5 everywere but both failed to even reach 1 million copies sold worldwide.
Queen is peaking on popularity thanks to the movie, but 90% of the success is thanks to streaming of the big hits, the soundtrack has sold only 800k worldwide, but Bohemian Rhapsody has over 15m streams each week only on Youtube.
A Stones new record could sell again 2 million copies as B&L if they release it during the Christmas season, there's no market worldwide to sell more than that.
Any archive stuff would sell 500-800k worldwide at best, there's no market worldwide to sell more than that.
If anything happens to any of the Stones, their back catalog would explode on the streaming market, Gimme Shelter, Paint It Black or Start Me Up would reach the top of the charts worldwide with millions of streams, but not more than 1 or 2 million people worldwide would buy any new or old stuff, again there's no market for more than that.
The more they wait to release new or old stuff, the less they sell due to lack of market/demand for physical material.
Meanwhile the songs on Hot Rocks reach 5-6 million streams each week only in the US, enough to keep the album charting on the Billboard 200 almost each week during the past year, the same in the UK, that's their legacy.
Quote
diverseharmonics
RUEing the day....as in regretting the day he let the woman walk out...IE--you will RUE the day...but a great track-would have been interesting to hear live.