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Doxa

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retired_dog

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Doxa
By contrast, his earlier solo albums decades ago were made in totally different circumstances. TALK IS CHEAP and MAIN OFFENDER were, like Rocky Dijon pointed out above, more easily translatable into Rolling Stones music, which is to say, if in those albums one starts to miss the missing voice and contribution of Mick Jagger, in CROSSEYED HEART one does not. Probably for that reason it reflects the sort of maturity, which I believe a Rolling Stones album can never do. Mick Jagger will never allow that (thank goodness).

- Doxa

Sorry to correct you, but that was me, not Rocky!

Sorry retired dog! I should have checked that or written "some cool and insightful poster I admire very much" instead... I go quickly to edit my post..

- Doxa

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retired_dog

[...] they're in fact hoarding material for the time after they officially call it quits as a live band - which may be very close by now. But even then, I'll doubt that we will get all this material in one go as a double or even triple set. It will most likely pour out over the years...

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Doxa

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DandelionPowderman
I think Keith was happy with ABB, musically, as well as the process of making it. And the four songs he brought to the sessions are all included on the final album.

It was the mix that they in hindsight weren't too happy about.

That's my main gripe with the album as well: It sounds poor. However, there are many good songs on it, and in that respect it is in a way a more even album than that of VL and B2B.

And the stuff they added to eachother's songs sound good, imo - Jagger's bass + his electric and acoustic slide playing included.

It is pretty hard to seperate the PR talk and promotion from what they actually feel like, but to me they were initially rather excited about A BIGGER BANG, Jagger cursing the idea of 'nostalgy acts' and Keith being proud of the new material that is ready to be played live, etc. But that attitude was a rather quickly forgotten as A Bigger Bang tour started to go on, and the album didn't turned out to be any strong success, especially in American market into which it was mostly targeted. The new songs they tried probably were not recieved very well - at least this has been the point Jagger has been vocal ever since. I think the reception the album got was a huge disappointment for them - which then affected to their own views of its quality (and we started to hear their second-thoughts about it). Them being total pros as they are they leave the judgment of their doings to the reception. And probably that had a lesson why they haven't been so eager to any records ever since.

- Doxa

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DandelionPowderman


Was it, or was the tour going on for too long? I don't think people who attended the first leg of the ABB-tour felt that the album was neglected or quickly played down.

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Doxa

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DandelionPowderman


Was it, or was the tour going on for too long? I don't think people who attended the first leg of the ABB-tour felt that the album was neglected or quickly played down.

Well, it wasn't neglected at all when the first leg (US) happened... But if memory serves (someone could provide us facts), they started reducing the amount of A BIGGER BANG songs already during that leg. At least by the time got to Europe, it was a question of one or two songs most. If I recall right they played only one new song in the two concerts I attended to (2006 and 2007), and the reception was a rather lukewarm in both cases.


WMy guess is that the experience (of how those new songs worked in concerts in terms of reception) Jagger had during that first leg in America was not a very good one.

- Doxa

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Doxa

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DandelionPowderman
I think Keith was happy with ABB, musically, as well as the process of making it. And the four songs he brought to the sessions are all included on the final album.

It was the mix that they in hindsight weren't too happy about.

That's my main gripe with the album as well: It sounds poor. However, there are many good songs on it, and in that respect it is in a way a more even album than that of VL and B2B.

And the stuff they added to eachother's songs sound good, imo - Jagger's bass + his electric and acoustic slide playing included.

It is pretty hard to seperate the PR talk and promotion from what they actually feel like, but to me they were initially rather excited about A BIGGER BANG, Jagger cursing the idea of 'nostalgy acts' and Keith being proud of the new material that is ready to be played live, etc. But that attitude was a rather quickly forgotten as A Bigger Bang tour started to go on, and the album didn't turned out to be any strong success, especially in American market into which it was mostly targeted. The new songs they tried probably were not recieved very well - at least this has been the point Jagger has been vocal ever since. I think the reception the album got was a huge disappointment for them - which then affected to their own views of its quality (and we started to hear their second-thoughts about it). Them being total pros as they are they leave the judgment of their doings to the reception. And probably that had a lesson why they haven't been so eager to any records ever since.

- Doxa

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Doxa

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CamRS
After following this thread and all of the opinions and speculation that is going into the making of this album, I thought why not add more?

As noted by bv, georgelicks and others, the band seems determined to make a great album. As this is probably the last statement they’ll make, I’m sure Mick and Keith are putting immense pressure on themselves to come up with great material. The surprising success of Blue and Lonesome has probably only added to that pressure.

Someone else on this board also noted that the band decided all must agree on the songs this time around. So while something like Gotta Get a Grip/England Lost may have made it onto an album in the past, this time around Keith (who’s never been a fan of overtly political songs) vetoed the two. Why does it matter that Charlie and Ronnie participated in it and not Keith? I really don’t think these two songs have created some wedge between Mick and Keith as others have speculated.

As far as their creative process, I’m not really going to critique the way the Glimmers come up with their songs. Creative people have their thing that works for them and theirs have evolved over the years. However, with the passing of Anita, L’Wrens suicide, getting old and losing people around over the last few years, there’s a lot of inspiration around them to write some really meaningful songs that I hope they’re using.

I’m looking forward to whatever new songs they come up, no matter how long it takes for them to release it.

-Cam

A great post. Thanks, Cam. I just make a brief comment to the one in bold, many times mentioned here by many posters.

For creative artists, there is something strange about by claiming that the ability to make great results instead of mediocre ones is a matter of decision or will. Like they could actually control their muse. Like it would be so easy. I don't think when they did, say, VOODOO LOUNGE or A BIGGER BANG - albums seen by many as rather mediocre by their usual standards - that they weren't serious in those album: that of making them as they great as they can. They just couldn't do anything better then. One cannot force creativity.

It could be, as claimed, that they put this time more thought to the quality standard. Which would also explain why making a supposed new album takes so long. But we don't know where the standard lies. It could be that the results so far are so mediocre or far from finished that they wouldn't meet the criterion set by, say, A BIGGER BANG. And if we count all those not years but actual working days spent for making new music by now I don't think they have actually spent more time than they did for, say, their four previous albums. So one cannot claim that they have put more energy into this new project than for previous ones. And they surely aren't getting any younger.

So for me this talk of 'this time they make sure that it will be a great album' is just a wish-talk from us fans (or as an excuse to explain the time 'wasted' to the project). And nothing wrong with that. The album, or whatever form it will take, will be just a manifestation of what The Rolling Stones as creative artists are at the moment. Like always. Nothing more, nothing less.

- Doxa

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retired_dog

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Doxa

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retired_dog

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Doxa
By contrast, his earlier solo albums decades ago were made in totally different circumstances. TALK IS CHEAP and MAIN OFFENDER were, like Rocky Dijon pointed out above, more easily translatable into Rolling Stones music, which is to say, if in those albums one starts to miss the missing voice and contribution of Mick Jagger, in CROSSEYED HEART one does not. Probably for that reason it reflects the sort of maturity, which I believe a Rolling Stones album can never do. Mick Jagger will never allow that (thank goodness).

- Doxa

Sorry to correct you, but that was me, not Rocky!

Sorry retired dog! I should have checked that or written "some cool and insightful poster I admire very much" instead... I go quickly to edit my post..

- Doxa

Ha, ha, that's probably too much honour for an old bugger like me! However, the admiration is mutual - as you may have noticed, I have already been called "one of Doxa's poodles" here by an entertaining chap...

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35love
If we are mentioning dropping a new song during an American tour, I must add my favorite
‘Tops’ live 1981 Philadelphia
[m.youtube.com]

Crowd had never heard it before (fan: “Tops??”)
And yet, this recording never fails to make me feel downright giddy.

We can take it again like that. I bet New Orleans gets some treats

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keithsman

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35love
If we are mentioning dropping a new song during an American tour, I must add my favorite
‘Tops’ live 1981 Philadelphia
[m.youtube.com]

Crowd had never heard it before (fan: “Tops??”)
And yet, this recording never fails to make me feel downright giddy.

We can take it again like that. I bet New Orleans gets some treats

Wow fantastic, imagine how good that would have become if they played it throughout the tour, it was developing well towards the end of that clip, Ronnie doing a great job.

One of my favorite ever Stones tracks, never heard it live before thanks 35Love

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35love
If we are mentioning dropping a new song during an American tour, I must add my favorite
‘Tops’ live 1981 Philadelphia
[m.youtube.com]

Crowd had never heard it before (fan: “Tops??”)
And yet, this recording never fails to make me feel downright giddy.

We can take it again like that. I bet New Orleans gets some treats



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2018-12-04 02:24 by mitchrambler.

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keithsman

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retired_dog

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Doxa

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retired_dog

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Doxa
By contrast, his earlier solo albums decades ago were made in totally different circumstances. TALK IS CHEAP and MAIN OFFENDER were, like Rocky Dijon pointed out above, more easily translatable into Rolling Stones music, which is to say, if in those albums one starts to miss the missing voice and contribution of Mick Jagger, in CROSSEYED HEART one does not. Probably for that reason it reflects the sort of maturity, which I believe a Rolling Stones album can never do. Mick Jagger will never allow that (thank goodness).

- Doxa

Sorry to correct you, but that was me, not Rocky!

Sorry retired dog! I should have checked that or written "some cool and insightful poster I admire very much" instead... I go quickly to edit my post..

- Doxa

Ha, ha, that's probably too much honour for an old bugger like me! However, the admiration is mutual - as you may have noticed, I have already been called "one of Doxa's poodles" here by an entertaining chap...

So so sorry retired dog, i did indeed call you Doxa's poodle but i was confusing you with another poster who just chimes in after Doxa with nothing to say for himself, no naming names..
I was going to apologize before but the opportunity didn't arrive.

What you and Doxa have is more of a mutual admiration society, you are no poodle, very good at conversing in an articulate manner on your own dear chap.

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CamRS

Thanks Doxa. You’re right, you can’t force creativity. What I interpret from that line is that there’s an extra motivation or spark to put together and album that maybe wasn’t there in the past. Similar in some ways to how Mick and Keith had that extra motivation from punk rockers and others who were telling them they were washed up when they were working on Some Girls.

The key difference between a Some Girls and now is where they are drawing their inspiration from. Some Girls had a sobered up Keith reasserting himself in the band, Ronnie Wood now a full member, and Mick drawing inspiration from NYC scene among other things that factored into the creative process. So I guess the question is where are they drawing their inspiration from and how will it be translated to the songs themselves? I guess we’ll see eventually...hopefullly

-Cam

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matxil

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CamRS

Thanks Doxa. You’re right, you can’t force creativity. What I interpret from that line is that there’s an extra motivation or spark to put together and album that maybe wasn’t there in the past. Similar in some ways to how Mick and Keith had that extra motivation from punk rockers and others who were telling them they were washed up when they were working on Some Girls.

The key difference between a Some Girls and now is where they are drawing their inspiration from. Some Girls had a sobered up Keith reasserting himself in the band, Ronnie Wood now a full member, and Mick drawing inspiration from NYC scene among other things that factored into the creative process. So I guess the question is where are they drawing their inspiration from and how will it be translated to the songs themselves? I guess we’ll see eventually...hopefullly

-Cam

Part of the problem is, however, that since the late 70's, there hasn't been any real progress in rock music. In electronic music, in hip-hop, in R&B (what they call R&B nowadays) there's been a lot of things going on. In rock music, however, there was only grunge and indie, two words for "the same old" and "the emperor's new clothes". So indeed: where can one get one's inspiration from?

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Witness

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keithsman

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retired_dog

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Doxa

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retired_dog

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Doxa
By contrast, his earlier solo albums decades ago were made in totally different circumstances. TALK IS CHEAP and MAIN OFFENDER were, like Rocky Dijon pointed out above, more easily translatable into Rolling Stones music, which is to say, if in those albums one starts to miss the missing voice and contribution of Mick Jagger, in CROSSEYED HEART one does not. Probably for that reason it reflects the sort of maturity, which I believe a Rolling Stones album can never do. Mick Jagger will never allow that (thank goodness).

- Doxa

Sorry to correct you, but that was me, not Rocky!

Sorry retired dog! I should have checked that or written "some cool and insightful poster I admire very much" instead... I go quickly to edit my post..

- Doxa

Ha, ha, that's probably too much honour for an old bugger like me! However, the admiration is mutual - as you may have noticed, I have already been called "one of Doxa's poodles" here by an entertaining chap...

So so sorry retired dog, i did indeed call you Doxa's poodle but i was confusing you with another poster who just chimes in after Doxa with nothing to say for himself, no naming names..
I was going to apologize before but the opportunity didn't arrive.

What you and Doxa have is more of a mutual admiration society, you are no poodle, very good at conversing in an articulate manner on your own dear chap.

You take it upon yourself, keithsman, to tell us that another poster, according to you, has nothing to say for himself. How do you really know? However, if that is your attitude, maybe you ought to express your apology above for instance in German and French as well, to show that you are comfortable with giving your views in what for you probably will be second languages. Hopefully you may learn something thereby.

There may be present posters (or readers abstaining from becoming posters) with more nuanced points of view that they find difficulty in expressing, without having needed to write so long posts that they are afraid those posts risk be left unread, especially when they would be formulated in a second language. Then a compromise for them may be to agree to a large extent with posts from a rich and eloquent writer like Doxa, himself, as we know, masterfully expressing himself in a second language. I find that legitimate. Such quotes may serve as a basis for their own views.

To think that your post comes from someone obsessed with a writer's block is quite an irony.

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DandelionPowderman

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matxil

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CamRS

Thanks Doxa. You’re right, you can’t force creativity. What I interpret from that line is that there’s an extra motivation or spark to put together and album that maybe wasn’t there in the past. Similar in some ways to how Mick and Keith had that extra motivation from punk rockers and others who were telling them they were washed up when they were working on Some Girls.

The key difference between a Some Girls and now is where they are drawing their inspiration from. Some Girls had a sobered up Keith reasserting himself in the band, Ronnie Wood now a full member, and Mick drawing inspiration from NYC scene among other things that factored into the creative process. So I guess the question is where are they drawing their inspiration from and how will it be translated to the songs themselves? I guess we’ll see eventually...hopefullly

-Cam

Part of the problem is, however, that since the late 70's, there hasn't been any real progress in rock music. In electronic music, in hip-hop, in R&B (what they call R&B nowadays) there's been a lot of things going on. In rock music, however, there was only grunge and indie, two words for "the same old" and "the emperor's new clothes". So indeed: where can one get one's inspiration from?

New Wave deserves a mention, though. Many will say early 80s metal as well. 1982 was a goundbreaking year for metal, according to the metal heads

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matxil

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DandelionPowderman

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matxil

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CamRS

Thanks Doxa. You’re right, you can’t force creativity. What I interpret from that line is that there’s an extra motivation or spark to put together and album that maybe wasn’t there in the past. Similar in some ways to how Mick and Keith had that extra motivation from punk rockers and others who were telling them they were washed up when they were working on Some Girls.

The key difference between a Some Girls and now is where they are drawing their inspiration from. Some Girls had a sobered up Keith reasserting himself in the band, Ronnie Wood now a full member, and Mick drawing inspiration from NYC scene among other things that factored into the creative process. So I guess the question is where are they drawing their inspiration from and how will it be translated to the songs themselves? I guess we’ll see eventually...hopefullly

-Cam

Part of the problem is, however, that since the late 70's, there hasn't been any real progress in rock music. In electronic music, in hip-hop, in R&B (what they call R&B nowadays) there's been a lot of things going on. In rock music, however, there was only grunge and indie, two words for "the same old" and "the emperor's new clothes". So indeed: where can one get one's inspiration from?

New Wave deserves a mention, though. Many will say early 80s metal as well. 1982 was a goundbreaking year for metal, according to the metal heads

Thank God the Rolling Stones never tried to sound like Depeche Mode, The Cure or Joy Division (and that latter band I even like). And metal..., well,..., what can I say... maybe it would have been fun if they'd have had a go at that, preferably something like gothic-death-trash-zombie-metal. Very tongue in cheek.

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Witness
but i was confusing you with another poster who just chimes in after Doxa with nothing to say for himself, no naming names

Such words can hardly be read as a praise of anyone. Those words may then tend to discourage posters, in their second language or not, who want put forth a point of view, by way of quoting articulate writers' posts as a reference point, in order to be able to succinctly express their own stance.

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keithsman

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Witness
but i was confusing you with another poster who just chimes in after Doxa with nothing to say for himself, no naming names

Such words can hardly be read as a praise of anyone. Those words may then tend to discourage posters, in their second language or not, who want put forth a point of view, by way of quoting articulate writers' posts as a reference point, in order to be able to succinctly express their own stance.

You got it all wrong, i said that because every time Doxa or anyone else bashes me this troll chimes in with a thumbs up.