Tell Me :
Talk
Yep. And I think that's about it, that's about everything we "from the outside world" can guess about what's going on in this songwriting team. Everything else is just biased guessing, Keith fans usually blame Mick and vice versa. If the chemistry is not there anymore, it's just not there. Period. And most likely noone is to blame for the fact that they're miles apart. And even if there is someone to blame, it's impossible for anyone outside the band to pinpoint exactly whoever it is.
Maybe it's just that the well is dry. And although they're more than a decade apart, both Mick's and Keith's last solo albums GITD and CH showed that - despite including some interesting sounds and a small handful of good songs - in contrast to Wandering Spirit or Talk Is Cheap/Main Offender there is no stuff there that begs to be recorded by the Stones. Apart from "Blue", a Goddess-outtake (!) only available as a single b-side, for me the last time I heard a solo tune that made me scratch my head asking why it was not kept for the band.
Yes Rocky i agree, and most people including me thought Keith was all washed up, as you say we didn't have the proof to suggest otherwise, and you are absolutely right, it wasn't true in the end.
The jury is still out on Mick though, he still has to prove himself and don't think he doesn't know it, i hope you are right and that he comes back with a great Stones album, he can still do it, but for now there is no evidence that he can make an album to equal or better Crosseyed Heart or A Bigger Bang.
I just hope the boys go out out with a bang and not a whimper, i also hope that Keith isn't going to get sidelined out of the new album, from what i'm picking up he is disillusioned with Mick. Who am i to say but for some unknown reason all the enthusiasm has gone when either Mick , Keith or Ronnie talk about the forthcoming album, i don't know but it wouldn't surprise me if Mick and Keith are so at loggerheads that they are canceling each other out, its leaning towards sabotage imho.
Sometimes one could get this impression, true, but recording sessions cost a lot of money and if they don't bring any valuable results, they would stop this project because economically, it would just not make any sense.
So as long as they're actually recording, there's still hope. And even if they're just trying to finish older outtakes because the new material leads to nothing, it would still be ok with me - as long as they choose the right outtakes...
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-12-03 04:30 by retired_dog.
As to, I don't want use the word "sabotage", but who is, and who is not ….. difficult, stubbornly old man difficult, I bring a quote from the "Mick Jagger in Paris"-thread.
It appears, whom Ronnie has to ask, in order to obtain constructive answers, if there still are some.
Haha... Jagger surely is a stubborn like hell, but stupid he is not.
It is funny how the history has been written by an agenda. For some folks A BIGGER BANG is now a sort of Jagger solo album, and I've heard that claim for years now. How short is a memory. At the time when the first news leaked that the album will be a pure Jagger/Richards deal, them writing and recording by themselves at Mick's Frech castle, that was like an old fan dream to come true. How can it be better? You just put Mick and Keith together face to face and the magic happens. Isn't that what many still wishes from the upcoming album (or whatever it supposed to be)?
Yep, probably Mick had wrote a quite bunch of the songs beforehand, like he has done since the times of STICKY FINGERS, but I am sure that Keith neither arrived there totally empty-handed. And as they have said some songs were pure Jagger/Richards co-works, the other Twin adding parts and ideas to other's songs. For most of the songs, if not for all, Mick and Keith laid the backing tracks by themselves, which means to say, that both of them had a contribution to the way the songs turned out to sound and feel like. Even in LIFE, which isn't the most Jagger friendly book, Keith had warm memories of those sessions with Mick (check also what the guys say about the sessions at the time from timeisonourside.com)
The question arises: what more can realistically a Jagger/Richards co-work be than what is presented in A BIGGER BANG? If I try to make some sense of the Richards fan club here crying out - how their man is neglected in the creative process, how all of it pure Jagger domination (and that's why it all sucks), etc. - all I conclude is:
Keith Richards is a total yes-man to Mick Jagger. Even being face to face, them almost living together, making an album from a scratch, he can't confront Mick artistically. No balls.
If that's true - what it says about the artistic nature and proudness of this man? Even giving the space and opportunity he was given then (while making A BIGGER BANG), he would need an army of keithsman type of fans with their loaded guns to back up their teethless hero up in a studio and make sure he gets his ideas through? Bullshit I say. I sometimes cannot but think that Keith's biggest fans, when they try to give a free pass to Keith in any Stones business they don't like, are actually making him look more miserable and incompetent than he actually is.
That rhetorical talk aside: if A BIGGER BANG is best what Mick and Keith can come up with creatively together, I think the part of Jagger's non-stupidity is that of pragmatism: he realizes that him writing with Keith is more a matter of nostalgy and old routines, which has ran out of gas a long time ago. They don't much, if at all, inspire each other any longer. And I wouldn't be surprised if Keith, if being honest and forgets his typical PR shit, thinks the same. Be the reason whatever, he doesn't sound too eager to leave from his his home studio in New York - it's Mick who occasionally flies to meet him there.
It is also noteworthy that in the recent interview Keith was asked if the material of CROSSEYED HEART would have been suitable for the Stones. His tone was very different than previously ('they are all written for Mick to sing') and he avoids the issue by emphasizing the very personal nature making the album was for him. It was a process him to heal himself from almost total retirement, nothing to do with The Rollng Stones, and this can be very well heard in the results. Those songs breath an independent Keith Richards, a musician totally in control and home within his own musical space. To me it sounds like a sonic follower to LIFE - a testament kind of book Keith needed to do get rid of his life-long dependence on Mick and The Stones. By contrast, his earlier solo albums decades ago were made in totally different circumstances. TALK IS CHEAP and MAIN OFFENDER were, like Retired Dog pointed out above, more easily translatable into Rolling Stones music, which is to say, if in those albums one starts to miss the missing voice and contribution of Mick Jagger, in CROSSEYED HEART one does not. Probably for that reason it reflects the sort of maturity, which I believe a Rolling Stones album can never do. Mick Jagger will never allow that (thank goodness
).
- Doxa
Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2018-12-03 16:15 by Doxa.
Yes i see what you mean lol, he has done it all and proved what a great songwriter he is through his lifetime up to about the age of 60.
But when one of the best song writers in history fail to produce a solo album in 18 years and an album from his band in 14 years, i'd say he has it all to prove again.
You are only as good as your last album so thankfully Mick is being sensible and lot releasing any product unless it's good enough, just as he would not tour if he were not good enough to perform.
For all we know Mick has tried hard to write this album, and he might be thinking he doesn't think it's good enough yet, hence more time, more writing until its right.
To be honest i can't understand for the life of me why they don't make an album out of finishing outtakes, or is he even struggling with finishing anything, it happens at that age to most songwriters.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-12-03 13:32 by keithsman.
Two important words, though
But it’s been damn painful to be sure Mr. D. Such a resistance to give us what we want, the Rolling Stones. BV states we may hear a couple new songs come tour time I’m hanging my hat on that (for now..haha)
That's very telling DP, Keith only bringing 4 songs out of 16. This is why i thought Keith was washed up.
Perhaps he intended to make 5 or 6 songs with Mick from scratch but Mick didn't fancy doing that.
Crosseyed Heart tells me Keith obviously had more to give to a Stones album than 4 songs.
These are basically Mick solo albums with Keith being allowed to do a bit, ( not much ) just an add on.
Now this is all wrong imho, this isn't Jagger Richards compositions and Keith basically having sod all to do with the final cuts on production.
I don't know man, something is very wrong here and i would not be a bit surprised if this is whats happening on the new album.
Is Keith being sidelined again ?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-12-03 14:01 by keithsman.
It is pretty hard to seperate the PR talk and promotion from what they actually feel like, but to me they were initially rather excited about A BIGGER BANG, Jagger cursing the idea of 'nostalgy acts' and Keith being proud of the new material that is ready to be played live, etc. But that attitude was a rather quickly forgotten as A Bigger Bang tour started to go on, and the album didn't turned out to be any strong success, especially in American market into which it was mostly targeted. The new songs they tried probably were not recieved very well - at least this has been the point Jagger has been vocal ever since. I think the reception the album got was a huge disappointment for them - which then affected to their own views of its quality (and we started to hear their second-thoughts about it). Them being total pros as they are they leave the judgment of their doings to the reception. And probably that had a lesson why they haven't been so eager to any records ever since.
- Doxa
Yes and no. My rock-n-roll side tends to agree. My wish for something mature tends to disagree. As of yet, the internal debate is undecided
Hahsha.yeah sure.
Jeroen
Sorry to correct you, but that was me, not Rocky!
Sorry retired dog! I should have checked that or written "some cool and insightful poster I admire very much" instead... I go quickly to edit my post..
- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-12-03 16:16 by Doxa.
Considering the numerous reports over the last couple of years, once could get the impression that they're working on shitloads of material, even including reworking "older stuff" (=outtakes from who knows when, probably even going back all the way to Steel Wheels or maybe even further). If they dare to include cover versions (like a studio version of "I'll Go Crazy" or the like which they did live over the years), it may very well account to a double or triple album's worth, but I doubt we will see it as such.
The nature of this process, however (working on new material as well as trying to finish the "loose ends" of recording sessions over the decades) makes me think that instead of concentrating on a single "new album" for now, they're in fact hoarding material for the time after they officially call it quits as a live band - which may be very close by now. But even then, I'll doubt that we will get all this material in one go as a double or even triple set. It will most likely pour out over the years...
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Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
retired_dog
()
Date: December 3, 2018 03:35
Quote
Rocky Dijon
Until 2015, one could easily make (and many did) the same argument about Keith. Look at the proof? Last solo album in 1992. Can only come up with a couple of lounge numbers. Last solo outings post-Winos only produced two cover versions ("Still a Fool" and "You Win Again") with Rob Fraboni on record stating those were the only two songs that were cut. The guy lost it. Didn't play guitar for months at a time. Crippled up with arthritis. Wasted on booze and coke. He was spent. Couldn't write a song if his life depended on it.
It wasn't true about Keith. I suspect it's not true about Mick. Doesn't change the fact that they're miles apart and the chemistry likely isn't there between them any more.
Yep. And I think that's about it, that's about everything we "from the outside world" can guess about what's going on in this songwriting team. Everything else is just biased guessing, Keith fans usually blame Mick and vice versa. If the chemistry is not there anymore, it's just not there. Period. And most likely noone is to blame for the fact that they're miles apart. And even if there is someone to blame, it's impossible for anyone outside the band to pinpoint exactly whoever it is.
Maybe it's just that the well is dry. And although they're more than a decade apart, both Mick's and Keith's last solo albums GITD and CH showed that - despite including some interesting sounds and a small handful of good songs - in contrast to Wandering Spirit or Talk Is Cheap/Main Offender there is no stuff there that begs to be recorded by the Stones. Apart from "Blue", a Goddess-outtake (!) only available as a single b-side, for me the last time I heard a solo tune that made me scratch my head asking why it was not kept for the band.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
keithsman
()
Date: December 3, 2018 03:36
Quote
Rocky Dijon
Until 2015, one could easily make (and many did) the same argument about Keith. Look at the proof? Last solo album in 1992. Can only come up with a couple of lounge numbers. Last solo outings post-Winos only produced two cover versions ("Still a Fool" and "You Win Again") with Rob Fraboni on record stating those were the only two songs that were cut. The guy lost it. Didn't play guitar for months at a time. Crippled up with arthritis. Wasted on booze and coke. He was spent. Couldn't write a song if his life depended on it.
It wasn't true about Keith. I suspect it's not true about Mick. Doesn't change the fact that they're miles apart and the chemistry likely isn't there between them any more.
Yes Rocky i agree, and most people including me thought Keith was all washed up, as you say we didn't have the proof to suggest otherwise, and you are absolutely right, it wasn't true in the end.
The jury is still out on Mick though, he still has to prove himself and don't think he doesn't know it, i hope you are right and that he comes back with a great Stones album, he can still do it, but for now there is no evidence that he can make an album to equal or better Crosseyed Heart or A Bigger Bang.
I just hope the boys go out out with a bang and not a whimper, i also hope that Keith isn't going to get sidelined out of the new album, from what i'm picking up he is disillusioned with Mick. Who am i to say but for some unknown reason all the enthusiasm has gone when either Mick , Keith or Ronnie talk about the forthcoming album, i don't know but it wouldn't surprise me if Mick and Keith are so at loggerheads that they are canceling each other out, its leaning towards sabotage imho.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
retired_dog
()
Date: December 3, 2018 03:50
Quote
keithsmanQuote
Rocky Dijon
Until 2015, one could easily make (and many did) the same argument about Keith. Look at the proof? Last solo album in 1992. Can only come up with a couple of lounge numbers. Last solo outings post-Winos only produced two cover versions ("Still a Fool" and "You Win Again") with Rob Fraboni on record stating those were the only two songs that were cut. The guy lost it. Didn't play guitar for months at a time. Crippled up with arthritis. Wasted on booze and coke. He was spent. Couldn't write a song if his life depended on it.
It wasn't true about Keith. I suspect it's not true about Mick. Doesn't change the fact that they're miles apart and the chemistry likely isn't there between them any more.
Yes Rocky i agree, and most people including me thought Keith was all washed up, as you say we didn't have the proof to suggest otherwise, and you are absolutely right, it wasn't true in the end.
The jury is still out on Mick though, he still has to prove himself and don't think he doesn't know it, i hope you are right and that he comes back with a great Stones album, he can still do it, but for now there is no evidence that he can make an album to equal or better Crosseyed Heart or A Bigger Bang.
I just hope the boys go out out with a bang and not a whimper, i also hope that Keith isn't going to get sidelined out of the new album, from what i'm picking up he is disillusioned with Mick. Who am i to say but for some unknown reason all the enthusiasm has gone when either Mick , Keith or Ronnie talk about the forthcoming album, i don't know but it wouldn't surprise me if Mick and Keith are so at loggerheads that they are canceling each other out, its leaning towards sabotage imho.
Sometimes one could get this impression, true, but recording sessions cost a lot of money and if they don't bring any valuable results, they would stop this project because economically, it would just not make any sense.
So as long as they're actually recording, there's still hope. And even if they're just trying to finish older outtakes because the new material leads to nothing, it would still be ok with me - as long as they choose the right outtakes...
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-12-03 04:30 by retired_dog.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: December 3, 2018 03:59
Maybe they need to clear the air between them (again), and each release some more solo material.
They did well together with Blue and Lonesome, but alas they were cover tunes that didn't ask much from either of them, i.e., the songs were already written.
Clearly there's a problem at mission control, and since it takes two to tangle, the blame lies with both of them.
I'd be happy with another Keith solo album, while a Mick solo album not so much, but either would be better than a diluted/mediocre Stones album imo.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
They did well together with Blue and Lonesome, but alas they were cover tunes that didn't ask much from either of them, i.e., the songs were already written.
Clearly there's a problem at mission control, and since it takes two to tangle, the blame lies with both of them.
I'd be happy with another Keith solo album, while a Mick solo album not so much, but either would be better than a diluted/mediocre Stones album imo.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
Rocky Dijon
()
Date: December 3, 2018 04:23
If they stop touring after 2019 and then make solo albums, you'd be looking at a Stones album when they're 80 years old.
Except for Charlie. He'd be 82.
Much as you might want to tell them "Let's Work," I think they're telling us we "Gotta Get a Grip."
Except for Charlie. He'd be 82.
Much as you might want to tell them "Let's Work," I think they're telling us we "Gotta Get a Grip."
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
Natlanta
()
Date: December 3, 2018 04:35
it pisses me off that there's no new album i can rag on.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
35love
()
Date: December 3, 2018 06:46
“The jury is still out on Mick though, he still has to prove himself and don't think he doesn't know it”
Laugh, laugh, laugh.
I mean that’s hilarious.
Laugh, laugh, laugh.
I mean that’s hilarious.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
rbp
()
Date: December 3, 2018 07:41
Way too much pressure on Jagger and Richards to produce a "classic" new album of original material.
If they are serious then they really need to get into a studio as a band for 2 or 3 months instead of continuing the Endless Tour which has become tedious to me.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-12-03 07:43 by rbp.
If they are serious then they really need to get into a studio as a band for 2 or 3 months instead of continuing the Endless Tour which has become tedious to me.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-12-03 07:43 by rbp.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
runrudolph
()
Date: December 3, 2018 08:28
My guess is Keef is determined to make a Stones sounding album.mick wants to get his eternal youth feeling come across on the album and finds it difficult to accept he is an old man.once he accepts his age we will get some good music from him.dont get me wrong. I like both Mick n Keith.although..love Keef a bit more.i just hope they will have a good conversation together and make a good rocking album.it might be true that Keef is stubborn and dont wanna make a modern sounding album and kicks in his boot at studio sessions.maybe we are all wrong and the album is nearly done.maybe the band is @#$%& us up and having a laugh at this thread.
Just give us some new music.
Jeroen
Just give us some new music.
Jeroen
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
KRiffhard
()
Date: December 3, 2018 10:15
Quote
rbp
Way too much pressure on Jagger and Richards to produce a "classic" new album of original material.
If they are serious then they really need to get into a studio as a band for 2 or 3 months instead of continuing the Endless Tour which has become tedious to me.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: December 3, 2018 10:23
The album will be ready when it's ready. I have a good feeling
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
Witness
()
Date: December 3, 2018 12:54
Quote
keithsmanQuote
Rocky Dijon
Until 2015, one could easily make (and many did) the same argument about Keith. Look at the proof? Last solo album in 1992. Can only come up with a couple of lounge numbers. Last solo outings post-Winos only produced two cover versions ("Still a Fool" and "You Win Again") with Rob Fraboni on record stating those were the only two songs that were cut. The guy lost it. Didn't play guitar for months at a time. Crippled up with arthritis. Wasted on booze and coke. He was spent. Couldn't write a song if his life depended on it.
It wasn't true about Keith. I suspect it's not true about Mick. Doesn't change the fact that they're miles apart and the chemistry likely isn't there between them any more.
Yes Rocky i agree, and most people including me thought Keith was all washed up, as you say we didn't have the proof to suggest otherwise, and you are absolutely right, it wasn't true in the end.
The jury is still out on Mick though, he still has to prove himself and don't think he doesn't know it, i hope you are right and that he comes back with a great Stones album, he can still do it, but for now there is no evidence that he can make an album to equal or better Crosseyed Heart or A Bigger Bang.
I just hope the boys go out out with a bang and not a whimper, i also hope that Keith isn't going to get sidelined out of the new album, from what i'm picking up he is disillusioned with Mick. Who am i to say but for some unknown reason all the enthusiasm has gone when either Mick , Keith or Ronnie talk about the forthcoming album, i don't know but it wouldn't surprise me if Mick and Keith are so at loggerheads that they are canceling each other out, its leaning towards sabotage imho.
As to, I don't want use the word "sabotage", but who is, and who is not ….. difficult, stubbornly old man difficult, I bring a quote from the "Mick Jagger in Paris"-thread.
Quote
WitnessQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Lien
He's going to meet Ronnie
Ronnie ; " I’m gonna go off to Paris and see Mick next week and see what his latest thoughts are after he’s got together with Keith."
[eu.azcentral.com]
The «after he’s got together with Keith»-part might refer to the studio time Mick and Keith had together recently..
Do we here from Ronnie's words get a rare glimpse of the real process of discontinuation about the making of a Rolling Stones studio album?
It appears, whom Ronnie has to ask, in order to obtain constructive answers, if there still are some.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: December 3, 2018 13:06
Quote
retired_dogQuote
keithsman
What do people expect them to achieve in a week, they've done sod all in three years, Christmas is coming, don't hold your breath for anything substantial.
I'm not entirely sure Mick hasn't got writers block, it's not looking good is it, why will he not stand toe to toe with Keith and create new spontaneous music ? because he cant't.
I said three years ago Mick will be intimidated by Crosseyed Heart and i was right.
I really wonder what makes you so sure here. What if they tried numerous times in the past decades and it simply does not "click" anymore like in their best days as a songwriter team? Say about Mick what you want, but he surely is no idiot. If this "gathering with Keith and creating spontaneous music" working method would still work and constantly generate quality Stones material, Mick would not be so silly or at least stubborn to discard a winning formula.
Haha... Jagger surely is a stubborn like hell, but stupid he is not.
It is funny how the history has been written by an agenda. For some folks A BIGGER BANG is now a sort of Jagger solo album, and I've heard that claim for years now. How short is a memory. At the time when the first news leaked that the album will be a pure Jagger/Richards deal, them writing and recording by themselves at Mick's Frech castle, that was like an old fan dream to come true. How can it be better? You just put Mick and Keith together face to face and the magic happens. Isn't that what many still wishes from the upcoming album (or whatever it supposed to be)?
Yep, probably Mick had wrote a quite bunch of the songs beforehand, like he has done since the times of STICKY FINGERS, but I am sure that Keith neither arrived there totally empty-handed. And as they have said some songs were pure Jagger/Richards co-works, the other Twin adding parts and ideas to other's songs. For most of the songs, if not for all, Mick and Keith laid the backing tracks by themselves, which means to say, that both of them had a contribution to the way the songs turned out to sound and feel like. Even in LIFE, which isn't the most Jagger friendly book, Keith had warm memories of those sessions with Mick (check also what the guys say about the sessions at the time from timeisonourside.com)
The question arises: what more can realistically a Jagger/Richards co-work be than what is presented in A BIGGER BANG? If I try to make some sense of the Richards fan club here crying out - how their man is neglected in the creative process, how all of it pure Jagger domination (and that's why it all sucks), etc. - all I conclude is:
Keith Richards is a total yes-man to Mick Jagger. Even being face to face, them almost living together, making an album from a scratch, he can't confront Mick artistically. No balls.
If that's true - what it says about the artistic nature and proudness of this man? Even giving the space and opportunity he was given then (while making A BIGGER BANG), he would need an army of keithsman type of fans with their loaded guns to back up their teethless hero up in a studio and make sure he gets his ideas through? Bullshit I say. I sometimes cannot but think that Keith's biggest fans, when they try to give a free pass to Keith in any Stones business they don't like, are actually making him look more miserable and incompetent than he actually is.
That rhetorical talk aside: if A BIGGER BANG is best what Mick and Keith can come up with creatively together, I think the part of Jagger's non-stupidity is that of pragmatism: he realizes that him writing with Keith is more a matter of nostalgy and old routines, which has ran out of gas a long time ago. They don't much, if at all, inspire each other any longer. And I wouldn't be surprised if Keith, if being honest and forgets his typical PR shit, thinks the same. Be the reason whatever, he doesn't sound too eager to leave from his his home studio in New York - it's Mick who occasionally flies to meet him there.
It is also noteworthy that in the recent interview Keith was asked if the material of CROSSEYED HEART would have been suitable for the Stones. His tone was very different than previously ('they are all written for Mick to sing') and he avoids the issue by emphasizing the very personal nature making the album was for him. It was a process him to heal himself from almost total retirement, nothing to do with The Rollng Stones, and this can be very well heard in the results. Those songs breath an independent Keith Richards, a musician totally in control and home within his own musical space. To me it sounds like a sonic follower to LIFE - a testament kind of book Keith needed to do get rid of his life-long dependence on Mick and The Stones. By contrast, his earlier solo albums decades ago were made in totally different circumstances. TALK IS CHEAP and MAIN OFFENDER were, like Retired Dog pointed out above, more easily translatable into Rolling Stones music, which is to say, if in those albums one starts to miss the missing voice and contribution of Mick Jagger, in CROSSEYED HEART one does not. Probably for that reason it reflects the sort of maturity, which I believe a Rolling Stones album can never do. Mick Jagger will never allow that (thank goodness
).- Doxa
Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2018-12-03 16:15 by Doxa.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: December 3, 2018 13:20
I think Keith was happy with ABB, musically, as well as the process of making it. And the four songs he brought to the sessions are all included on the final album.
It was the mix that they in hindsight weren't too happy about.
That's my main gripe with the album as well: It sounds poor. However, there are many good songs on it, and in that respect it is in a way a more even album than that of VL and B2B.
And the stuff they added to eachother's songs sound good, imo - Jagger's bass + his electric and acoustic slide playing included.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-12-03 13:24 by DandelionPowderman.
It was the mix that they in hindsight weren't too happy about.
That's my main gripe with the album as well: It sounds poor. However, there are many good songs on it, and in that respect it is in a way a more even album than that of VL and B2B.
And the stuff they added to eachother's songs sound good, imo - Jagger's bass + his electric and acoustic slide playing included.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-12-03 13:24 by DandelionPowderman.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
keithsman
()
Date: December 3, 2018 13:30
Quote
35love
“The jury is still out on Mick though, he still has to prove himself and don't think he doesn't know it”
Laugh, laugh, laugh.
I mean that’s hilarious.
Yes i see what you mean lol, he has done it all and proved what a great songwriter he is through his lifetime up to about the age of 60.
But when one of the best song writers in history fail to produce a solo album in 18 years and an album from his band in 14 years, i'd say he has it all to prove again.
You are only as good as your last album so thankfully Mick is being sensible and lot releasing any product unless it's good enough, just as he would not tour if he were not good enough to perform.
For all we know Mick has tried hard to write this album, and he might be thinking he doesn't think it's good enough yet, hence more time, more writing until its right.
To be honest i can't understand for the life of me why they don't make an album out of finishing outtakes, or is he even struggling with finishing anything, it happens at that age to most songwriters.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-12-03 13:32 by keithsman.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
matxil
()
Date: December 3, 2018 13:35
I am not gonna include the entire post here, but I agree with Doxa's last post 99.99% (I only disagree with the last two words in between parentheses).
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: December 3, 2018 13:43
Quote
matxil
I am not gonna include the entire post here, but I agree with Doxa's last post 99.99% (I only disagree with the last two words in between parentheses).
Two important words, though
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
Maindefender
()
Date: December 3, 2018 13:45
Quote
DandelionPowderman
The album will be ready when it's ready. I have a good feeling
But it’s been damn painful to be sure Mr. D. Such a resistance to give us what we want, the Rolling Stones. BV states we may hear a couple new songs come tour time I’m hanging my hat on that (for now..haha)
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
keithsman
()
Date: December 3, 2018 13:51
Quote
DandelionPowderman
I think Keith was happy with ABB, musically, as well as the process of making it. And the four songs he brought to the sessions are all included on the final album.
It was the mix that they in hindsight weren't too happy about.
That's my main gripe with the album as well: It sounds poor. However, there are many good songs on it, and in that respect it is in a way a more even album than that of VL and B2B.
And the stuff they added to eachother's songs sound good, imo - Jagger's bass + his electric and acoustic slide playing included.
That's very telling DP, Keith only bringing 4 songs out of 16. This is why i thought Keith was washed up.
Perhaps he intended to make 5 or 6 songs with Mick from scratch but Mick didn't fancy doing that.
Crosseyed Heart tells me Keith obviously had more to give to a Stones album than 4 songs.
These are basically Mick solo albums with Keith being allowed to do a bit, ( not much ) just an add on.
Now this is all wrong imho, this isn't Jagger Richards compositions and Keith basically having sod all to do with the final cuts on production.
I don't know man, something is very wrong here and i would not be a bit surprised if this is whats happening on the new album.
Is Keith being sidelined again ?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-12-03 14:01 by keithsman.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: December 3, 2018 13:54
Quote
DandelionPowderman
I think Keith was happy with ABB, musically, as well as the process of making it. And the four songs he brought to the sessions are all included on the final album.
It was the mix that they in hindsight weren't too happy about.
That's my main gripe with the album as well: It sounds poor. However, there are many good songs on it, and in that respect it is in a way a more even album than that of VL and B2B.
And the stuff they added to eachother's songs sound good, imo - Jagger's bass + his electric and acoustic slide playing included.
It is pretty hard to seperate the PR talk and promotion from what they actually feel like, but to me they were initially rather excited about A BIGGER BANG, Jagger cursing the idea of 'nostalgy acts' and Keith being proud of the new material that is ready to be played live, etc. But that attitude was a rather quickly forgotten as A Bigger Bang tour started to go on, and the album didn't turned out to be any strong success, especially in American market into which it was mostly targeted. The new songs they tried probably were not recieved very well - at least this has been the point Jagger has been vocal ever since. I think the reception the album got was a huge disappointment for them - which then affected to their own views of its quality (and we started to hear their second-thoughts about it). Them being total pros as they are they leave the judgment of their doings to the reception. And probably that had a lesson why they haven't been so eager to any records ever since.
- Doxa
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
matxil
()
Date: December 3, 2018 14:03
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
matxil
I am not gonna include the entire post here, but I agree with Doxa's last post 99.99% (I only disagree with the last two words in between parentheses).
Two important words, though
Yes and no. My rock-n-roll side tends to agree. My wish for something mature tends to disagree. As of yet, the internal debate is undecided
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
keithsman
()
Date: December 3, 2018 14:09
Doxa
It is also noteworthy that in the recent interview Keith was asked if the material of CROSSEYED HEART would have been suitable for the Stones. His tone was very different than previously ('they are all written for Mick to sing') and he avoids the issue by emphasizing the very personal nature making the album was for him. It was a process him to heal himself from almost total retirement, nothing to do with The Rollng Stones, and this can be very well heard in the results. Those songs breath an independent Keith Richards, a musician totally in control and home within his own musical space. To me it sounds like a sonic follower to LIFE - a testament kind of book Keith needed to do get rid of his life-long dependence on Mick and The Stones. By contrast, his earlier solo albums decades ago were made in totally different circumstances. TALK IS CHEAP and MAIN OFFENDER were, like Rocky Dijon pointed out above, more easily translatable into Rolling Stones music, which is to say, if in those albums one starts to miss the missing voice and contribution of Mick Jagger, in CROSSEYED HEART one does not. Probably for that reason it reflects the sort of maturity, which I believe a Rolling Stones album can never do. Mick Jagger will never allow that (thank goodnessgrinning smiley).
- Doxa
Keithsman
Boy did you nail it there Doxa, brilliant.
You know sometimes you make a brighter day
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-12-03 14:12 by keithsman.
It is also noteworthy that in the recent interview Keith was asked if the material of CROSSEYED HEART would have been suitable for the Stones. His tone was very different than previously ('they are all written for Mick to sing') and he avoids the issue by emphasizing the very personal nature making the album was for him. It was a process him to heal himself from almost total retirement, nothing to do with The Rollng Stones, and this can be very well heard in the results. Those songs breath an independent Keith Richards, a musician totally in control and home within his own musical space. To me it sounds like a sonic follower to LIFE - a testament kind of book Keith needed to do get rid of his life-long dependence on Mick and The Stones. By contrast, his earlier solo albums decades ago were made in totally different circumstances. TALK IS CHEAP and MAIN OFFENDER were, like Rocky Dijon pointed out above, more easily translatable into Rolling Stones music, which is to say, if in those albums one starts to miss the missing voice and contribution of Mick Jagger, in CROSSEYED HEART one does not. Probably for that reason it reflects the sort of maturity, which I believe a Rolling Stones album can never do. Mick Jagger will never allow that (thank goodnessgrinning smiley).
- Doxa
Keithsman
Boy did you nail it there Doxa, brilliant.
You know sometimes you make a brighter day
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-12-03 14:12 by keithsman.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
KeithNacho
()
Date: December 3, 2018 14:34
Could it be that this delay is because they are working on a huge Project,a big one, a special double or triple álbum???
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
runrudolph
()
Date: December 3, 2018 15:12
Quote
KeithNacho
Could it be that this delay is because they are working on a huge Project,a big one, a special double or triple álbum???
Hahsha.yeah sure.
Jeroen
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
retired_dog
()
Date: December 3, 2018 16:02
Quote
Doxa
By contrast, his earlier solo albums decades ago were made in totally different circumstances. TALK IS CHEAP and MAIN OFFENDER were, like Rocky Dijon pointed out above, more easily translatable into Rolling Stones music, which is to say, if in those albums one starts to miss the missing voice and contribution of Mick Jagger, in CROSSEYED HEART one does not. Probably for that reason it reflects the sort of maturity, which I believe a Rolling Stones album can never do. Mick Jagger will never allow that (thank goodness
- Doxa
Sorry to correct you, but that was me, not Rocky!
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: December 3, 2018 16:14
Quote
retired_dogQuote
Doxa
By contrast, his earlier solo albums decades ago were made in totally different circumstances. TALK IS CHEAP and MAIN OFFENDER were, like Rocky Dijon pointed out above, more easily translatable into Rolling Stones music, which is to say, if in those albums one starts to miss the missing voice and contribution of Mick Jagger, in CROSSEYED HEART one does not. Probably for that reason it reflects the sort of maturity, which I believe a Rolling Stones album can never do. Mick Jagger will never allow that (thank goodness
- Doxa
Sorry to correct you, but that was me, not Rocky!
Sorry retired dog! I should have checked that or written "some cool and insightful poster I admire very much" instead... I go quickly to edit my post..
- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-12-03 16:16 by Doxa.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
Spud
()
Date: December 3, 2018 16:17
Doxa's probably right.
I've tended to look at it from a slightly different angle.. but it amounts to the same thing.
I've sensed that for many many years now Mick has tended to view the band and his own Rolling Stones Mick Jagger persona as something of a stylised cartoon characterisation.
[That's not to say that he doesn't still like being Mick Jagger of the Rolling Stones...just that it's now almost 100% an act.]
Keith on that other hand, whilst up to a point acting out a similar role , still seems to have a large part of himself invested in the band and what he thinks it should be.
It's kind of still more real to Keith than it is to Mick.
Or maybe I'm completely wrong ?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-12-03 16:19 by Spud.
I've tended to look at it from a slightly different angle.. but it amounts to the same thing.
I've sensed that for many many years now Mick has tended to view the band and his own Rolling Stones Mick Jagger persona as something of a stylised cartoon characterisation.
[That's not to say that he doesn't still like being Mick Jagger of the Rolling Stones...just that it's now almost 100% an act.]
Keith on that other hand, whilst up to a point acting out a similar role , still seems to have a large part of himself invested in the band and what he thinks it should be.
It's kind of still more real to Keith than it is to Mick.
Or maybe I'm completely wrong ?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-12-03 16:19 by Spud.
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
Elmo Lewis
()
Date: December 3, 2018 16:30
Polish up 10-12 songs for a Tattoo You type album
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
retired_dog
()
Date: December 3, 2018 16:31
Quote
KeithNacho
Could it be that this delay is because they are working on a huge Project,a big one, a special double or triple álbum???
Considering the numerous reports over the last couple of years, once could get the impression that they're working on shitloads of material, even including reworking "older stuff" (=outtakes from who knows when, probably even going back all the way to Steel Wheels or maybe even further). If they dare to include cover versions (like a studio version of "I'll Go Crazy" or the like which they did live over the years), it may very well account to a double or triple album's worth, but I doubt we will see it as such.
The nature of this process, however (working on new material as well as trying to finish the "loose ends" of recording sessions over the decades) makes me think that instead of concentrating on a single "new album" for now, they're in fact hoarding material for the time after they officially call it quits as a live band - which may be very close by now. But even then, I'll doubt that we will get all this material in one go as a double or even triple set. It will most likely pour out over the years...
Re: New Stones album for 2019?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: December 3, 2018 16:43
<But that attitude was a rather quickly forgotten as A Bigger Bang tour started to go on>
Was it, or was the tour going on for too long? I don't think people who attended the first leg of the ABB-tour felt that the album was neglected or quickly played down.
Was it, or was the tour going on for too long? I don't think people who attended the first leg of the ABB-tour felt that the album was neglected or quickly played down.
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