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Rocky Dijon
Ridiculously overrated at the outset and then unfairly criticized once it is no longer new.
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bye bye johnny
From The Sun, 11/6:
"The (2019) dates comes as Mick Jagger and Keith Richards have been slogging away in a New York studio working on an EP."
[www.thesun.co.uk]
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Rocky Dijon
What I meant by unfairly criticized is when it is judged against their body of work instead of at a moment in time. How often are their latterday works thought of in the context of their age and the period they were made as opposed to compared unfavorably to The Big Four or SOME GIRLS? It's like your wife of fifty years criticizing you for not being the man you were when she first married you. Fans live in an eternal bubble where the Stones are timeless. I understand someone saying TALK IS CHEAP compares unfavorably to RATTLE AND HUM or PRIMITIVE COOL next to THE JOSHUA TREE. There's little point holding them up to SOME GIRLS or BEGGARS BANQUET. No one can turn back the clock. You can appreciate it for its place in their long career and still find fault, but do so from the standpoint of what they were realistically capable of achieving at age 50 or 62 or 75 and not that they failed to craft a song with the impact or creativity of JJF or "Brown Sugar."
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bv
They have booked studio time. I do believe we will have some great stuff ahead for the next year.
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Hairball
I do understand what you're saying Rocky, but that's sort of giving them a handicap..."it's great considering how old they are"...or "they're way past their prime, but it's still great considering their old age"...is that being fair?
People compare old Monet to young Monet (for example), and usually don't say "well he was really old then, lets forgive him for not putting out the greatness he once did"...they either like it or not.
But the fact is, he really was putting out some genuinely great work in his latter years imo - no asterisk or handicap or comparisons to his younger self needed.
PS - And when Dylan or Neil Young put out a stinker these days, there's no forgiveness.
If it sucks it sucks!
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Rocky Dijon
The EP is an error.
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Rocky DijonQuote
Hairball
I do understand what you're saying Rocky, but that's sort of giving them a handicap..."it's great considering how old they are"...or "they're way past their prime, but it's still great considering their old age"...is that being fair?
People compare old Monet to young Monet (for example), and usually don't say "well he was really old then, lets forgive him for not putting out the greatness he once did"...they either like it or not.
But the fact is, he really was putting out some genuinely great work in his latter years imo - no asterisk or handicap or comparisons to his younger self needed.
PS - And when Dylan or Neil Young put out a stinker these days, there's no forgiveness.
If it sucks it sucks!
They're still playing a young man's game. Monet wasn't. Dylan and Neil Young aren't. Keith's point has been to change people's perception of the band and "grow the music up" as we've all heard.
Some complain that Keith's ballads are boring, but he's attempting to demonstrate they've evolved, they've moved on from pop songs and chasing trends. He wants to be seen as an elder statesman and be appreciated as a serious musician to an extent.
I picked U2 because, to a lesser degree, they're in the same boat. They've been around for decades, they're still very successful, their best work is far behind them, but they still wish to express themselves artistically. Where the comparison doesn't work is U2 didn't come up during the turbulent sixties, a decade of such amazing change and socio-political turmoil that the art that survives was seemingly forged in the flames of youthful discontent.
In the seventies, the Stones still did great work but it was worldweary or reflected their decadence or their refusal to grow old gracefully and conform. The spark of politics and the occult and genuine rebellion against the Establishment was gone once they became tax exiles living the jet set life. They've survived and endured as a business model certainly. They've exceeded most everyone's expectations of how long you can stay at the top of your game in one form or another.
That is why I suggest one can't reasonably compare SOME GIRLS to BEGGARS BANQUET because that decade of living makes a difference. Likewise, STEEL WHEELS couldn't be SOME GIRLS. You don't have to agree. You can continue to believe they should still produce songs as vital as "Street Fighting Man" with the same cultural impact. You'll be disppointed, of course.
Alternatively, one could argue that "Rough Justice" or "You Got Me Rocking" or "Start Me Up" still show a band that can fire on all cylinders and give one pleasure. I sometimes think it's not the Stones who don't measure up to expectations, it's that their audience doesn't. We grew old, except for our youthful passion for the band, and we can never recapture the elation of being young and hearing something magical as if for the first time. The exception is being in the stadium or arena when the band first hits the stage or the rose-tinted early perceptions of a long anticipated new release we're certain is their best work since our youthful standard of an artistic high water mark.
You can call that giving them a handicap if you like. I prefer it to screaming at the elderly man in the wheelchair to walk because you revere the memory of days when he could win marathons.
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gotdablouse
An EP like in the good old days ! At least there wouldn't (hopefully) be any filler material on there ;-)
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Rocky Dijon
You can call that giving them a handicap if you like. I prefer it to screaming at the elderly man in the wheelchair to walk because you revere the memory of days when he could win marathons.
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Hairball
Waiting for someone now to jump in and demand the album TODAY!!!! And it better be GREAT!!!
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doitywoikQuote
Hairball
Waiting for someone now to jump in and demand the album TODAY!!!! And it better be GREAT!!!
No problem, I'll take it upon myself: I want the album TODAY!!!! And it better be GREAT!!!
Yeah! And it better be GREAT!!!Quote
HairballQuote
doitywoikQuote
Hairball
Waiting for someone now to jump in and demand the album TODAY!!!! And it better be GREAT!!!
No problem, I'll take it upon myself: I want the album TODAY!!!! And it better be GREAT!!!
Haha well truthfully, I think most of us feel the same, but some of us might be a bit more forgiving considering their age, their need for family time, vacation time,
and all around different priorities at this point in their lives, etc. After all, Charlie needs time with his horses, and who are we to deny him that?!
NO MORE EXCUSES - we want the album, and we want it now!!! And it better be GREAT!!!
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Hairball
Waiting for someone now to jump in and demand the album TODAY!!!! And it better be GREAT!!!
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Rocky Dijon
I picked U2 because, to a lesser degree, they're in the same boat. They've been around for decades, they're still very successful, their best work is far behind them, but they still wish to express themselves artistically. Where the comparison doesn't work is U2 didn't come up during the turbulent sixties, a decade of such amazing change and socio-political turmoil that the art that survives was seemingly forged in the flames of youthful discontent.
In the seventies, the Stones still did great work but it was worldweary or reflected their decadence or their refusal to grow old gracefully and conform. The spark of politics and the occult and genuine rebellion against the Establishment was gone once they became tax exiles living the jet set life. They've survived and endured as a business model certainly. They've exceeded most everyone's expectations of how long you can stay at the top of your game in one form or another.
That is why I suggest one can't reasonably compare SOME GIRLS to BEGGARS BANQUET because that decade of living makes a difference. Likewise, STEEL WHEELS couldn't be SOME GIRLS. You don't have to agree. You can continue to believe they should still produce songs as vital as "Street Fighting Man" with the same cultural impact. You'll be disppointed, of course.
Alternatively, one could argue that "Rough Justice" or "You Got Me Rocking" or "Start Me Up" still show a band that can fire on all cylinders and give one pleasure. I sometimes think it's not the Stones who don't measure up to expectations, it's that their audience doesn't. We grew old, except for our youthful passion for the band, and we can never recapture the elation of being young and hearing something magical as if for the first time. The exception is being in the stadium or arena when the band first hits the stage or the rose-tinted early perceptions of a long anticipated new release we're certain is their best work since our youthful standard of an artistic high water mark.
You can call that giving them a handicap if you like. I prefer it to screaming at the elderly man in the wheelchair to walk because you revere the memory of days when he could win marathons.
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DandelionPowderman
Or we can just judge the album as it is - today. Blue And Lonesome was awesome. They still have the chops, they still swing, they still play the blues and rock'n'roll convincingly. They still sound like the Stones.
We all know that.
A track like Hoodoo Blues is as dirty and filthy as Stones tunes can be. Even though they're old men now, they know how to make a brilliant racket.
And I trust they will on the new album.
For everyone that expects a new cultural revolution, scandals, riots and upheavals: Listen to their old records.
I'm gonna occupy the living room with studio headphones and be unreachable for a few days. Looking very much forward to that
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DandelionPowderman
Or we can just judge the album as it is - today. Blue And Lonesome was awesome. They still have the chops, they still swing, they still play the blues and rock'n'roll convincingly. They still sound like the Stones.
We all know that.
A track like Hoodoo Blues is as dirty and filthy as Stones tunes can be. Even though they're old men now, they know how to make a brilliant racket.
And I trust they will on the new album.
For everyone that expects a new cultural revolution, scandals, riots and upheavals: Listen to their old records.
I'm gonna occupy the living room with studio headphones and be unreachable for a few days. Looking very much forward to that
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DandelionPowderman
Or we can just judge the album as it is - today. Blue And Lonesome was awesome. They still have the chops, they still swing, they still play the blues and rock'n'roll convincingly. They still sound like the Stones.
We all know that.
A track like Hoodoo Blues is as dirty and filthy as Stones tunes can be. Even though they're old men now, they know how to make a brilliant racket.
And I trust they will on the new album.
For everyone that expects a new cultural revolution, scandals, riots and upheavals: Listen to their old records.
I'm gonna occupy the living room with studio headphones and be unreachable for a few days. Looking very much forward to that
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Hairball
EP?
Hope that's a typo!!!