Tell Me :
Talk
My oxygen speculation is not based on omertà-protected inside knowledge but is just that: a speculation. In fact I was thinking of Ted Nugent, who back in the 70s claimed in interviews that his shows were so wild and he gave it all so much that he had to take a dose of oxygen before the encore. After reading that a number of times I went to a record store nearby and checked out a couple of Ted Nugent albums. I was utterly underwhelmed.
As for Ronnie, I guess he's had worse things behind Charlie's kit than oxygen.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-13 02:13 by doitywoik.
___________________________________
Ha!!! I dig it!!! Rock on.
(I'm missing a LOL smiley)
I had just given the tracks a quick zapping listen last night, will check them in their entirety today.
You definitely have a point regarding Mick's snoring. I haven't listened to any of the songs completely yet but what I heard so far - bubble gum tracks aside - didn't sound any worse writing-wise (I mean, musically) than much of what got officially released since 1989 or so.
Irrespective of the "quality" of the songs, what I liked (of what I heard so far) was the rough edge, that is definitely charming. And I'm wondering if that aspect isn't also (part of) what Keith meant when he talked about going for a different approach w.r.t. the new new album (as opposed to the present old new album), like, leaving some edge to it instead of smoothening everything out until it sounds like a polished shoe.
That's also what made B&L so likeable to me - not being over-produced but still with an idea of a rough edge in there. Also reminds me of various Voodoo Lounge outtakes/earlier versions of songs that sounded so much better than on the official release.
Just wondering if any of the songs is a Ronnie song, and if so, which one(s). Ronnie said (I think, in "According to the Rolling Stones") that Mick also asked him for a song (or songs). He also said they virtually had a full album, it just would have needed some finishing touches, for which there was no time because of the start of the tour (lame excuse IMHO, they could have done that between tour legs). Although adding the new 2002 stuff to the 4 new tracks on 40 Licks might correspond to a full album I'm also wondering if there is more stuff they held back. Also, I still feel like "Extreme Western grip" (was it that one?) would have made a cool jam track with a little more work. (I have to check my DVDs because it seems to me that what can be found on Youtube here differs a little from what is on the DVDs).
Aw, pity. Has that been circulated already? Or is it still waiting for The 2002 Paris Sessions Reloaded?
After finally listening to the full set of songs, I think that that's a pretty good assessment.
In my view, it's nowhere near a(n almost) finished lost album. Ronnie's statement that the recordings just would have taken a few finishing touches to be fit for release seems a bit over-optimistic now - on the other hand, we don't know if these were the final versions of the songs at that point or if more elaborate(d) versions exist that we don't know of.
The only two songs that are rather worked out are Don't Stop and Keys, which to me are the weakest songs in the bunch. Just Before/Because sounds like a fun version, kind of trying out where the song might go. Sounds to me a bit like the teenie-bopper boogie of the mid-70s. Since this has transformed into Trouble on CH we will never get a full-fledged Stones version of it. Since Trouble is credited to Richards/Jordan (if memory serves), I guess it's one of those songs where Keith alone wrote the music and Mick was supposed to come up with some lyrics only. The other songs are at a stage where they could have developed in a number of ways: either as interesting or even great, or botched as fillers.
My absolute highlight is Cried Out. That one gives me the goosebumps! Such a great song, such a shame they made nothing of it! I must admit the riff sounds like I heard it already, but what the heck. I just hope this one is on the list of stuff to be worked on for the new new album.
Dream, Love Is A Test and When I Call Your Name are the type of ballads (or ballad-like tunes) that could develop into something really nice or could be spoiled completely. What makes them charming here to me is their simplicity, like not (yet?) pretending to be something else. Pretty much the same holds for U Don't Wanna. Could have turned into something cool or a filler.
I think one should take these recordings as what they are: demos that already indicate certain directions but could be further developed in different ways. What I truly like about them is that they are Stones but not Stones by numbers, none of them is boring, each of them has got something, all of them could have been album tracks, and - to me at least - none of them comes in the "Scrap that!" department. Really the two weakest tracks are the ones that actually got released. (Disregarding now Just Before/Because because Keith made something very different of it, although I must admit it's not my favourite track on CW either - an OK rocker but nothing special).
Cried Out, Dream, Love Is A Test, When I Call Your Name, U Don't Wanna plus two or three rockers could have given us a good or maybe even great album, really.
Here's a question: is it just me or is Mick sometimes muffling the lyrics, indicating sounds rather than actual words?
___________________________________
I LOVE listening to outtakes and rough versions of songs. I thoroughly enjoyed this ...and the quality for a bootleg or whatever you may call it is as good as it can get.
With that said the songs we have here are not album worthy. They are songs .. played by The Rolling Stones .. that are all B stock material. It isnt album worthy and they are not album worthy songs. Still GREAT to just hear though .. I really enjoy it. Listening again for the third time right now.
As for Don't Stop and Keys to Your Love being B stock material and not album worthy I would agree, yet they ended up slapping them onto a Greatest Hits album for crying out loud! Some of the other tunes could have easily evolved into decent latter day Stones tunes with a bit of more work and in some cases lots more work, and whose to say that's not exactly what they're doing right now with some of these? Aside from the above two I mention (thankfully they're last in the track order making it easy to skip), I'm enjoying these "rough drafts" more than most of what became of A Bigger Bang. And then you have the early version of Trouble which thankfully was withheld from the Stones (or maybe Mick didn't want to work on it any further). It eventually evolved into a proper tune making it's way on Crosseyed Heart. Nice to hear the skeleton version w/Mick, but the finished result w/Keith singing outshines it by a landslide.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Yes, thankful to have!
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
To judge from the title it wouldn't have been Stones album material anyway. Rather sounds like a therapeutic measure?
Ian, you're so harsh!
I don't even mind the muffled singing. Dylan is doing that for 50+ years on his official releases and gets away with it ... Of course Mick's singing is a bit overdone in places but I think he's trying things out, phrasings, emotions, getting a feel. It's a rehearsal, after all. What's really B stock is Don't Stop and Keys. I'm pretty sure that Just Before/Because would never have gone onto a Stones album in that shape or arrangement (which is in flux here anyway). Seems like it's something Keith brought to the session, perhaps in much rawer a form even than what we hear, and they are fooling around with it. - This has nothing to do with music now but I love the banter, Keith can't remember the intro and Mick tells him he could listen to it, or Mick putting spoken markers ("Middle eight!"), or asking if the song really needs a third verse ... I take this latter remark to indicate that it was really something Keith brought, and that's why he could use it on CW without giving Mick a writer's credit. - In the end it was up to Keith to give the song a proper shape. I know that many people here love Trouble, I just find it OK, but Keith has done worse songs.
But none of the other songs is so bad as to call it no potential album material. They have done worse ballads, they have done worse mid-tempo things (Oh no, not 'things' again ... ). OK, Cried Out simply strikes a chord in me, right from the first bar on, maybe that's me only. To bring it in release shape some more work had to be done but the song is there and it works. Similar vibe as Laugh I nearly died, which is my favourite song on ABB (runner-up: Rain Fall Down) but different song, takes a different path, I wouldn't change a chord. I think not even ABB production could have killed the song. Yes, maybe the riff sounds old-fashioned but it's not something they've done before umpteen times, in fact it's rather atypical for a Stones song, me thinks, and it works and sounds good. And that cool piano sound! U don't Wanna is one of those songs that by and by build up momentum as they proceed, culminating in the jammed out ending. I love that organ sound, and how nice it blends with the guitar work and the general vibe of the song. I'd like to hear that sound on a release once, or at least in concert. Also the ballads are above-average to me, quite simple songs but nothing embarrasing in there. To some extend the Stones are about simple songs, and they do it well here. How they would have turned out in a ABB- or - worse - 40 Licks type production is something I refuse to think about. Hairball said it already, they could have been nice or good (or maybe even great) latter era Stones songs.
To me the new tunes are the type of songs where you wished they'd forget about 21st sound and 21st century production technique for a moment and just gave them a simple but well-considered effective arrangement, and let them breathe.
What might bias me a bit, of course, is that in addition we are given here the rare chance to hear the Stones in a natural sounding recording with no brickwalling whatsoever. That alone makes things so much better to me.
Despite enjoing listening to those songs, they aren't such bad songs either!
Giving Ian the benefit of the doubt, perhaps he meant the songs in their current state - ie unfinished - are not album worthy songs, and if so maybe we both misinterpreted what he meant. We have both replied that of course they're not quite album worthy...yet...they're works on progress! Part of the charm is in the sound itself, the rawness, and the signature ramshackle Stonesy vibe that has been sinfully snatched away on albums like ABB. On the other hand, if Ian meant they had no chance at ever being Stones-worthy releases - even after evolving and simmering for awhile - he has some explaining to do. If Don't Stop and Keys to Your Love were deemed worthy by the band, worthy enough to make it on to a Greatest Hits album - why not the others that according to most everyone else's opinion are far better? That really should be a question for the band (mainly Mick and Keith), but maybe Ian has some insights also. Maybe Ian thinks Don't Stop and Keys to Your Love are truly classics that deserved to be released as album worthy, while the others simply weren't up to snuff and never could be?
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
__________________________________
Ha!! Yupp. I like it!!!
Thanks for further enlightening all of us!!
Rock & Roll - !
Talk about your favorite band.
For information about how to use this forum please check out forum help and policies.
Re: Another Stones studio album in 2018
Posted by:
doitywoik
()
Date: April 12, 2018 06:31
Quote
keithsmanQuote
doitywoikQuote
Palace Revolution 2000
I remember when the thing started with Mick leaving the stage for Keith's little set; which is bad enough.
Wasn't that rather for pragmatic reasons? Like, cooling down a bit, drying up the sweat, changing clothes, giving the voice a break, perhaps taking a leak or having a dose of oxygen, etc.?
Funny you say that, i was having a beer after the second Paris gig last year with these two guys, they told me that they could see Ronnie taking oxygen just behind Charlies drums on two occasions during the show.
I thought they were having me on at the time but come to think of it.
My oxygen speculation is not based on omertà-protected inside knowledge but is just that: a speculation. In fact I was thinking of Ted Nugent, who back in the 70s claimed in interviews that his shows were so wild and he gave it all so much that he had to take a dose of oxygen before the encore. After reading that a number of times I went to a record store nearby and checked out a couple of Ted Nugent albums. I was utterly underwhelmed.
As for Ronnie, I guess he's had worse things behind Charlie's kit than oxygen.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-13 02:13 by doitywoik.
Re: Another Stones studio album in 2018
Posted by:
doitywoik
()
Date: April 12, 2018 06:55
Quote
HairballQuote
Cristiano RadtkeQuote
georgelicks
Meanwhile, we can all hear the 2002 sessions outtakes just leaked, we've just got the lost studio album from 2002, but on 2018.
The "new" tracks are absolutely great!
Who could have guessed...a "new" album made back in 2002 and delivered to 2018?
Seems all my "hard work" speculating in this thread has paid off in a weird way...
I don't even give a shit about a supposed new album any more - for now anyways - this fills the void...
THANKS to whoever made this happen, and thanks to IORR!
Yeah, big thanks from over here as well!
Just gave it a quick run-through. Sounds refreshingly different from what we have been served for decades! - OK, Just Before and Because sound like mid-70s teenie bopper stuff (but fun) and Don't Stop is what it is, but it's a hell of a shame&pity they didn't make this stuff their 2002 album.
Re: Another Stones studio album in 2018
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: April 12, 2018 08:45
Quoting system went a bit haywire above which it's been known to do occasioanlly, so fixing that here:
Reality Check:
Either it's pretty darn good (my first impression), or we're just desperate after being deprived of new/original Stones tunes for what seems eternity.
At this point, we would even enjoy a recording of Mick snoring out loud, Charlie snapping his fingers, Ronnie scratching his nails on a chalkboard, and Keith belching out loud!
Could be a combo of both scenarios - it's pretty darn good, and anything is better than nothing. Whatever the case, this satisfies the craving for the time being!
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Quote
doitywoik
Yeah, big thanks from over here as well!
Just gave it a quick run-through. Sounds refreshingly different from what we have been served for decades! - OK, Just Before and Because sound like mid-70s teenie bopper stuff (but fun) and Don't Stop is what it is, but it's a hell of a shame&pity they didn't make this stuff their 2002 album.
Reality Check:
Either it's pretty darn good (my first impression), or we're just desperate after being deprived of new/original Stones tunes for what seems eternity.
At this point, we would even enjoy a recording of Mick snoring out loud, Charlie snapping his fingers, Ronnie scratching his nails on a chalkboard, and Keith belching out loud!
Could be a combo of both scenarios - it's pretty darn good, and anything is better than nothing. Whatever the case, this satisfies the craving for the time being!
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Re: Another Stones studio album in 2018
Posted by:
IanBillen
()
Date: April 12, 2018 09:13
Quote
Rockman
They have pleeeeeeeenty of family time folks.....
.................................................. ................. IanBillen
___________________________________
Ha!!! I dig it!!! Rock on.
Re: Another Stones studio album in 2018
Posted by:
Rockman
()
Date: April 12, 2018 09:28
Grabs with subtitles from Under The Influence just for you Ian.....^^^^^^^^^
ROCKMAN
ROCKMAN
Re: Another Stones studio album in 2018
Posted by:
doitywoik
()
Date: April 12, 2018 15:54
Quote
Hairball
Reality Check:
Either it's pretty darn good (my first impression), or we're just desperate after being deprived of new/original Stones tunes for what seems eternity.
At this point, we would even enjoy a recording of Mick snoring out loud, Charlie snapping his fingers, Ronnie scratching his nails on a chalkboard, and Keith belching out loud!
Could be a combo of both scenarios - it's pretty darn good, and anything is better than nothing. Whatever the case, this satisfies the craving for the time being!
(I'm missing a LOL smiley)I had just given the tracks a quick zapping listen last night, will check them in their entirety today.
You definitely have a point regarding Mick's snoring.
I haven't listened to any of the songs completely yet but what I heard so far - bubble gum tracks aside - didn't sound any worse writing-wise (I mean, musically) than much of what got officially released since 1989 or so.Irrespective of the "quality" of the songs, what I liked (of what I heard so far) was the rough edge, that is definitely charming. And I'm wondering if that aspect isn't also (part of) what Keith meant when he talked about going for a different approach w.r.t. the new new album (as opposed to the present old new album), like, leaving some edge to it instead of smoothening everything out until it sounds like a polished shoe.
That's also what made B&L so likeable to me - not being over-produced but still with an idea of a rough edge in there. Also reminds me of various Voodoo Lounge outtakes/earlier versions of songs that sounded so much better than on the official release.
Just wondering if any of the songs is a Ronnie song, and if so, which one(s). Ronnie said (I think, in "According to the Rolling Stones") that Mick also asked him for a song (or songs). He also said they virtually had a full album, it just would have needed some finishing touches, for which there was no time because of the start of the tour (lame excuse IMHO, they could have done that between tour legs). Although adding the new 2002 stuff to the 4 new tracks on 40 Licks might correspond to a full album I'm also wondering if there is more stuff they held back. Also, I still feel like "Extreme Western grip" (was it that one?) would have made a cool jam track with a little more work. (I have to check my DVDs because it seems to me that what can be found on Youtube here differs a little from what is on the DVDs).
Re: Another Stones studio album in 2018
Posted by:
Rocky Dijon
()
Date: April 12, 2018 15:56
The Ronnie tune tried in 2002 was "Rehab Blues." It is not part of this collection.
Re: Another Stones studio album in 2018
Posted by:
doitywoik
()
Date: April 12, 2018 17:54
Quote
Rocky Dijon
The Ronnie tune tried in 2002 was "Rehab Blues." It is not part of this collection.
Aw, pity. Has that been circulated already? Or is it still waiting for The 2002 Paris Sessions Reloaded?
Re: Another Stones studio album in 2018
Posted by:
Rocky Dijon
()
Date: April 13, 2018 00:22
Never heard it, but I'm not in any inner circle. That and a song called "Vice Versa" (which may also be Jagger/Richards/Wood) were played during the Toronto rehearsals in 2002.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-13 00:22 by Rocky Dijon.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-13 00:22 by Rocky Dijon.
Re: Another Stones studio album in 2018
Posted by:
doitywoik
()
Date: April 13, 2018 03:31
Quote
Hairball
Either it's pretty darn good (my first impression), or we're just desperate after being deprived of new/original Stones tunes for what seems eternity....
Could be a combo of both scenarios ...
After finally listening to the full set of songs, I think that that's a pretty good assessment.
In my view, it's nowhere near a(n almost) finished lost album. Ronnie's statement that the recordings just would have taken a few finishing touches to be fit for release seems a bit over-optimistic now - on the other hand, we don't know if these were the final versions of the songs at that point or if more elaborate(d) versions exist that we don't know of.
The only two songs that are rather worked out are Don't Stop and Keys, which to me are the weakest songs in the bunch. Just Before/Because sounds like a fun version, kind of trying out where the song might go. Sounds to me a bit like the teenie-bopper boogie of the mid-70s. Since this has transformed into Trouble on CH we will never get a full-fledged Stones version of it. Since Trouble is credited to Richards/Jordan (if memory serves), I guess it's one of those songs where Keith alone wrote the music and Mick was supposed to come up with some lyrics only. The other songs are at a stage where they could have developed in a number of ways: either as interesting or even great, or botched as fillers.
My absolute highlight is Cried Out. That one gives me the goosebumps! Such a great song, such a shame they made nothing of it! I must admit the riff sounds like I heard it already, but what the heck. I just hope this one is on the list of stuff to be worked on for the new new album.
Dream, Love Is A Test and When I Call Your Name are the type of ballads (or ballad-like tunes) that could develop into something really nice or could be spoiled completely. What makes them charming here to me is their simplicity, like not (yet?) pretending to be something else. Pretty much the same holds for U Don't Wanna. Could have turned into something cool or a filler.
I think one should take these recordings as what they are: demos that already indicate certain directions but could be further developed in different ways. What I truly like about them is that they are Stones but not Stones by numbers, none of them is boring, each of them has got something, all of them could have been album tracks, and - to me at least - none of them comes in the "Scrap that!" department. Really the two weakest tracks are the ones that actually got released. (Disregarding now Just Before/Because because Keith made something very different of it, although I must admit it's not my favourite track on CW either - an OK rocker but nothing special).
Cried Out, Dream, Love Is A Test, When I Call Your Name, U Don't Wanna plus two or three rockers could have given us a good or maybe even great album, really.
Here's a question: is it just me or is Mick sometimes muffling the lyrics, indicating sounds rather than actual words?
Re: Another Stones studio album in 2018
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: April 13, 2018 06:05
You have a better grasp of it all than I do doitywoik as I initially listened to brief snippets, then listened in full, and then returned to some more brief snippets that initially caught my ear. I've set it asidee and will return to it in a few days, as I don't want to get burned out immediately and am sort of enjoying the thrill and experience of having something "new". As to your question, yes at times Mick is sort of working out certain sounds and possible vocal phrases that might work within the framework of the tune, and doesn't quite have full lyrics worked out yet. Funnily enough, it's those muffling with lyrics/sounds that sound pretty good sometimes, and might be better than what some of the finished lyrics would have become.
I'm still eager to hear the Keith solo version of One More Shot which according to Steve Jordan is much different and much better. Considering how weak it became with Mick on vocals imo, there's no reason for me to disbelieve what Jordan has said. He seemed really proud of the results and was anxious in wanting it to be heard, so maybe some day it will be leaked!
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
I'm still eager to hear the Keith solo version of One More Shot which according to Steve Jordan is much different and much better. Considering how weak it became with Mick on vocals imo, there's no reason for me to disbelieve what Jordan has said. He seemed really proud of the results and was anxious in wanting it to be heard, so maybe some day it will be leaked!
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Re: Another Stones studio album in 2018
Posted by:
doitywoik
()
Date: April 13, 2018 06:55
What makes the (officially) unreleased tracks so attractive - to me - is also their raw nature: there's plenty of room for imagining what could have been. BAsically they're full/complete songs (lyrics aside) but the are not finished, rather like advanced draft versions.
I could listen only via headphones so far. Tomorrow hopefully on my stereo, finally!
I'm totally with you as it concerns One More Shot. That song needs Keith's voice, his phrasing and his timing. Mick's voice and style/way of singing simply kills it for me. He is singing the song as if he had swallowed an umbrella before (or suchlike). I'm not sure if OMS would be a gem but with Keith singing it would at least be an enjoyable little ditty (or so I think).
Since the Stones released the song I'm pessimistic the original version will ever surface on a compilation or as a B side. Maybe someone with the right connections could persuade Steve Jordan to leak it?
I could listen only via headphones so far. Tomorrow hopefully on my stereo, finally!
I'm totally with you as it concerns One More Shot. That song needs Keith's voice, his phrasing and his timing. Mick's voice and style/way of singing simply kills it for me. He is singing the song as if he had swallowed an umbrella before (or suchlike). I'm not sure if OMS would be a gem but with Keith singing it would at least be an enjoyable little ditty (or so I think).
Since the Stones released the song I'm pessimistic the original version will ever surface on a compilation or as a B side. Maybe someone with the right connections could persuade Steve Jordan to leak it?
Re: Another Stones studio album in 2018
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: April 13, 2018 07:49
I'm listening to Cried Out right now based on your comment and yes a very good tune. Kind of a soulful bluesy R&B tune that sounds as if it's been from a bygone era - though I have to say the vocals could have been a bit more subtle/restrained (it grates a bit), but I suppose Mick is truly baring his soul in this. Similar style to his singing on Down in the Hole (which I love), yet taken much further here. Overall a bit clunky here and there (and a bit sappy), but could have possibly evolved into a great tune in the latter era. Great keyboards - I'm a sucker for that particular sound.
Now listening to U Don't Wanna again as it was a standout upon first listen, but now I'm hearing shades of Dire Straights Money For Nothing (waiting for Sting to come in singing "I want my mtv") w/ a similar sounding chord structure- until the chorus part comes in. I do like the extended jam of it though, and Mick's vocals are nice.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-13 07:50 by Hairball.
Now listening to U Don't Wanna again as it was a standout upon first listen, but now I'm hearing shades of Dire Straights Money For Nothing (waiting for Sting to come in singing "I want my mtv") w/ a similar sounding chord structure- until the chorus part comes in. I do like the extended jam of it though, and Mick's vocals are nice.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-13 07:50 by Hairball.
Re: Another Stones studio album in 2018
Posted by:
IanBillen
()
Date: April 13, 2018 08:04
Quote
Hairball
I'm listening to Cried Out right now based on your comment and yes a very good tune. Kind of a soulful bluesy R&B tune that sounds as if it's been from a bygone era - though I have to say the vocals could have been a bit more subtle/restrained (it grates a bit), but I suppose Mick is truly baring his soul in this. Similar style to his singing on Down in the Hole (which I love), yet taken much further here. Overall a bit clunky here and there (and a bit sappy), but could have possibly evolved into a great tune in the latter era. Great keyboards - I'm a sucker for that particular sound.
Now listening to U Don't Wanna again as it was a standout upon first listen, but now I'm hearing shades of Dire Straights Money For Nothing (waiting for Sting to come in singing "I want my mtv") w/ a similar sounding chord structure- until the chorus part comes in. I do like the extended jam of it though, and Mick's vocals are nice.
___________________________________
I LOVE listening to outtakes and rough versions of songs. I thoroughly enjoyed this ...and the quality for a bootleg or whatever you may call it is as good as it can get.
With that said the songs we have here are not album worthy. They are songs .. played by The Rolling Stones .. that are all B stock material. It isnt album worthy and they are not album worthy songs. Still GREAT to just hear though .. I really enjoy it. Listening again for the third time right now.
Re: Another Stones studio album in 2018
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: April 13, 2018 08:19
Quote
IanBillen___________________________________Quote
Hairball
I'm listening to Cried Out right now based on your comment and yes a very good tune. Kind of a soulful bluesy R&B tune that sounds as if it's been from a bygone era - though I have to say the vocals could have been a bit more subtle/restrained (it grates a bit), but I suppose Mick is truly baring his soul in this. Similar style to his singing on Down in the Hole (which I love), yet taken much further here. Overall a bit clunky here and there (and a bit sappy), but could have possibly evolved into a great tune in the latter era. Great keyboards - I'm a sucker for that particular sound.
Now listening to U Don't Wanna again as it was a standout upon first listen, but now I'm hearing shades of Dire Straights Money For Nothing (waiting for Sting to come in singing "I want my mtv") w/ a similar sounding chord structure- until the chorus part comes in. I do like the extended jam of it though, and Mick's vocals are nice.
I LOVE listening to outtakes and rough versions of songs. I thoroughly enjoyed this ...and the quality for a bootleg or whatever you may call it is as good as it can get.
With that said the songs we have here are not album worthy. They are songs .. played by The Rolling Stones .. that are all B stock material. It isnt album worthy and they are not album worthy songs. Still GREAT to just hear though .. I really enjoy it. Listening again for the third time right now.
As for Don't Stop and Keys to Your Love being B stock material and not album worthy I would agree, yet they ended up slapping them onto a Greatest Hits album for crying out loud! Some of the other tunes could have easily evolved into decent latter day Stones tunes with a bit of more work and in some cases lots more work, and whose to say that's not exactly what they're doing right now with some of these? Aside from the above two I mention (thankfully they're last in the track order making it easy to skip), I'm enjoying these "rough drafts" more than most of what became of A Bigger Bang. And then you have the early version of Trouble which thankfully was withheld from the Stones (or maybe Mick didn't want to work on it any further). It eventually evolved into a proper tune making it's way on Crosseyed Heart. Nice to hear the skeleton version w/Mick, but the finished result w/Keith singing outshines it by a landslide.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Re: Another Stones studio album in 2018
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: April 13, 2018 08:22
Quote
doitywoik
What makes the (officially) unreleased tracks so attractive - to me - is also their raw nature: there's plenty of room for imagining what could have been. BAsically they're full/complete songs (lyrics aside) but the are not finished, rather like advanced draft versions.
Yes, thankful to have!
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Re: Another Stones studio album in 2018
Posted by:
doitywoik
()
Date: April 13, 2018 11:39
Quote
Rocky Dijon
The Ronnie tune tried in 2002 was "Rehab Blues." It is not part of this collection.
To judge from the title it wouldn't have been Stones album material anyway. Rather sounds like a therapeutic measure?
Re: Another Stones studio album in 2018
Posted by:
doitywoik
()
Date: April 13, 2018 13:27
Quote
IanBillen
With that said the songs we have here are not album worthy. They are songs .. played by The Rolling Stones .. that are all B stock material. It isnt album worthy and they are not album worthy songs.
Ian, you're so harsh!
I don't even mind the muffled singing. Dylan is doing that for 50+ years on his official releases and gets away with it ... Of course Mick's singing is a bit overdone in places but I think he's trying things out, phrasings, emotions, getting a feel. It's a rehearsal, after all. What's really B stock is Don't Stop and Keys. I'm pretty sure that Just Before/Because would never have gone onto a Stones album in that shape or arrangement (which is in flux here anyway). Seems like it's something Keith brought to the session, perhaps in much rawer a form even than what we hear, and they are fooling around with it. - This has nothing to do with music now but I love the banter, Keith can't remember the intro and Mick tells him he could listen to it, or Mick putting spoken markers ("Middle eight!"), or asking if the song really needs a third verse ... I take this latter remark to indicate that it was really something Keith brought, and that's why he could use it on CW without giving Mick a writer's credit. - In the end it was up to Keith to give the song a proper shape. I know that many people here love Trouble, I just find it OK, but Keith has done worse songs.
But none of the other songs is so bad as to call it no potential album material. They have done worse ballads, they have done worse mid-tempo things (Oh no, not 'things' again ...
). OK, Cried Out simply strikes a chord in me, right from the first bar on, maybe that's me only. To bring it in release shape some more work had to be done but the song is there and it works. Similar vibe as Laugh I nearly died, which is my favourite song on ABB (runner-up: Rain Fall Down) but different song, takes a different path, I wouldn't change a chord. I think not even ABB production could have killed the song. Yes, maybe the riff sounds old-fashioned but it's not something they've done before umpteen times, in fact it's rather atypical for a Stones song, me thinks, and it works and sounds good. And that cool piano sound! U don't Wanna is one of those songs that by and by build up momentum as they proceed, culminating in the jammed out ending. I love that organ sound, and how nice it blends with the guitar work and the general vibe of the song. I'd like to hear that sound on a release once, or at least in concert. Also the ballads are above-average to me, quite simple songs but nothing embarrasing in there. To some extend the Stones are about simple songs, and they do it well here. How they would have turned out in a ABB- or - worse - 40 Licks type production is something I refuse to think about. Hairball said it already, they could have been nice or good (or maybe even great) latter era Stones songs.To me the new tunes are the type of songs where you wished they'd forget about 21st sound and 21st century production technique for a moment and just gave them a simple but well-considered effective arrangement, and let them breathe.
What might bias me a bit, of course, is that in addition we are given here the rare chance to hear the Stones in a natural sounding recording with no brickwalling whatsoever. That alone makes things so much better to me.
Despite enjoing listening to those songs, they aren't such bad songs either!
Re: Another Stones studio album in 2018
Posted by:
Bjorn
()
Date: April 13, 2018 13:44
You are absolutely right, IanBillen. I will not listen to them a second time. It´s not exactly Paint it black or even Rough justice.
Re: Another Stones studio album in 2018
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: April 13, 2018 17:54
Quote
doitywoikQuote
IanBillen
With that said the songs we have here are not album worthy. They are songs .. played by The Rolling Stones .. that are all B stock material. It isnt album worthy and they are not album worthy songs.
Ian, you're so harsh!
Giving Ian the benefit of the doubt, perhaps he meant the songs in their current state - ie unfinished - are not album worthy songs, and if so maybe we both misinterpreted what he meant. We have both replied that of course they're not quite album worthy...yet...they're works on progress! Part of the charm is in the sound itself, the rawness, and the signature ramshackle Stonesy vibe that has been sinfully snatched away on albums like ABB. On the other hand, if Ian meant they had no chance at ever being Stones-worthy releases - even after evolving and simmering for awhile - he has some explaining to do.
If Don't Stop and Keys to Your Love were deemed worthy by the band, worthy enough to make it on to a Greatest Hits album - why not the others that according to most everyone else's opinion are far better? That really should be a question for the band (mainly Mick and Keith), but maybe Ian has some insights also. Maybe Ian thinks Don't Stop and Keys to Your Love are truly classics that deserved to be released as album worthy, while the others simply weren't up to snuff and never could be?_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Re: Another Stones studio album in 2018
Posted by:
doitywoik
()
Date: April 13, 2018 20:29
Yeah, you may be right (hopefully).
<If Don't Stop and Keys to Your Love were deemed worthy by the band, worthy enough to make it on to a Greatest Hits album>
Maybe by the one man band only Keith perhaps didn't care a lot because he had his solo spot making up for 25% of the new material on 40 Licks
I'm speculating now - I could even imagine that it was clear that Don't Stop, Keys and whatever the third one of Mick's was would go on 40 Licks even before the Stones had recorded a single note. I'm pretty sure they were specifically designed (or chosen) for that purpose, and that Mick brought them to the studio as by and large complete and worked out songs. I remember an interview with Mick from around that time in which he said that Don't Stop was specifically written with a stadium-crowd audience in mind, so he didn't want to use it for a solo album but for the Stones. So Don't Stop apparently early on was meant to be a/the new song to be played on the tour.
I also remember an interview with Ronnie before 40 Licks was out in which he was asked how much of a say he had in choosing the songs (aparently while that was still in progress). Ronnie said that it is a very complex matter and that he keeps out of discussing the first CD because these were all songs from before his time as a Stone but that he would very much like to get at least one of his songs on the second CD. The only one I with potential Ronnie involvement I can spot there is IORR (which he says was written by him) but I don't know if he gets any royalties for IORR.
<If Don't Stop and Keys to Your Love were deemed worthy by the band, worthy enough to make it on to a Greatest Hits album>
Maybe by the one man band only
Keith perhaps didn't care a lot because he had his solo spot making up for 25% of the new material on 40 Licks I'm speculating now - I could even imagine that it was clear that Don't Stop, Keys and whatever the third one of Mick's was would go on 40 Licks even before the Stones had recorded a single note. I'm pretty sure they were specifically designed (or chosen) for that purpose, and that Mick brought them to the studio as by and large complete and worked out songs. I remember an interview with Mick from around that time in which he said that Don't Stop was specifically written with a stadium-crowd audience in mind, so he didn't want to use it for a solo album but for the Stones. So Don't Stop apparently early on was meant to be a/the new song to be played on the tour.
I also remember an interview with Ronnie before 40 Licks was out in which he was asked how much of a say he had in choosing the songs (aparently while that was still in progress). Ronnie said that it is a very complex matter and that he keeps out of discussing the first CD because these were all songs from before his time as a Stone but that he would very much like to get at least one of his songs on the second CD. The only one I with potential Ronnie involvement I can spot there is IORR (which he says was written by him) but I don't know if he gets any royalties for IORR.
Re: Another Stones studio album in 2018
Posted by:
doitywoik
()
Date: April 13, 2018 23:18
Thanks for the link. But not exactly revealing.
Re: Another Stones studio album in 2018
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: April 14, 2018 01:26
Nice to hear that intro to Illusion - such a classy tune.
Keith seems mighty happy, perhaps that was a spliff he was toking on?
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Keith seems mighty happy, perhaps that was a spliff he was toking on?
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Re: Another Stones studio album in 2018
Posted by:
doitywoik
()
Date: April 14, 2018 01:57
He was happy he didn't have to carry the piano ...
Re: Another Stones studio album in 2018
Posted by:
IanBillen
()
Date: April 14, 2018 02:34
Quote
Rockman
Grabs with subtitles from Under The Influence just for you Ian.....^^^^^^^^^
__________________________________
Ha!! Yupp. I like it!!!
Thanks for further enlightening all of us!!
Rock & Roll - !
Re: Another Stones studio album in 2018
Posted by:
doitywoik
()
Date: April 14, 2018 03:32
New Album: cover art leaked!
(I know it's silly but I couldn't resist... )
(I know it's silly but I couldn't resist...
)Re: Another Stones studio album in 2018
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: April 14, 2018 05:12
Oooh nice doitywoik - that's a keeper!
That makes sense regarding the origins of the dorky Don't Stop, the lame Keys, and the cheesy Stealing my heart - a shame isn't it.
And I also recall Mick stating Don't Stop was written with a live audience/concert setting in mind...yawn.
The only memorable part was the state of the art mini doohicky camera that Ronnie had attached to the neck of his guitar visually it was great.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Quote
doitywoik
I'm speculating now - I could even imagine that it was clear that Don't Stop, Keys and whatever the third one of Mick's was would go on 40 Licks even before the Stones had recorded a single note. I'm pretty sure they were specifically designed (or chosen) for that purpose, and that Mick brought them to the studio as by and large complete and worked out songs. I remember an interview with Mick from around that time in which he said that Don't Stop was specifically written with a stadium-crowd audience in mind, so he didn't want to use it for a solo album but for the Stones. So Don't Stop apparently early on was meant to be a/the new song to be played on the tour.
That makes sense regarding the origins of the dorky Don't Stop, the lame Keys, and the cheesy Stealing my heart - a shame isn't it.
And I also recall Mick stating Don't Stop was written with a live audience/concert setting in mind...yawn.
The only memorable part was the state of the art mini doohicky camera that Ronnie had attached to the neck of his guitar visually it was great.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Re: Another Stones studio album in 2018
Posted by:
doitywoik
()
Date: April 14, 2018 07:17
Next time we'll get a transmission from Mick's retina and a view of the stage from the perspective of Keith's cigarette butt ...
Re: Another Stones studio album in 2018
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: April 14, 2018 07:56
Now that would be impressive - and imagine the view from the tips of Charlies drumsticks! 
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
This Thread has been closed
Online Users
Guests:
1925
Record Number of Users:
206
on June 1, 2022 23:50
Record Number of Guests:
9627
on January 2, 2024 23:10