Tell Me :
Talk
...and you're right...only horrible record they've ever really put out is dirty work. the last several have been 'pretty good' for the most part, but not classic.
Just for the record, I wasn't commenting on whether the records were poor or pretty good or horrible or not classic.
I was responding to bv's very specific--and fascinating, at least to me--use of the word 'significant.' Calling material "significant' is different from passing a snap judgment or offering a quick opinion. Significance connotes thought, importance, relevance, power. The Stones have not produced material meeting that standard for a very long time, in my opinion.
Yeah, it's a complicated question. I agree that it's nearly impossible now for a piece of pop music to achieve the kind of cultural significance that was possible in the 60's or 70's. People are consuming music perhaps as much or more than ever before ... but what does it really mean? I'm not sure.
I think that there is 'significant' music being made by talented artists in the pop realm (Kendrick Lamar comes to mind, e.g.) ... but to the 'casual' consumer of music today do Kendrick's records really 'mean' anything, the way that, say, Hendrix' records meant something to listeners in the late 60's?
I just don't know.
The one from 1986 is not enjoyable.
I like Had It With You and Too Rude.
From the passion in his voice and the look on his face when my son plays me a favorite Kendrick Lamar song, I'd say yes LongBeach. The kids are alright and so are we.
That is so awesome, bloomer--thx for sharing!
And that's hardly surprising because that description would fit for almost every Stones album.
exactly
________________________________________
I will speak for Bv and say when he said 'significant' he meant not just another Stones album or another great Stones release. They want this one to be a good cut above some of their recent stuff / releases ..
They dont want just another Stones album that's great .. they want it to be a memorable one in their catalog .. Not meaning it has to be of the quality or magnitude of their big four or anything like that.. He simply meant not just another great sounding Stones album .. it has to carry weight.. it has to be <especially> good... Something to truly behold .. Something that matters. Something hard to deny ..
Correct me if I'm mistaken but this is how I think he meant 'significant'.
Ian
From whom have you heard this morsel of ... 'info'?
Rod
+1
Just probably too mainstream, trying to fit into the MTV crowd. I still enjoy hearing songs off it but the guitars didn't seem to have that rhythm/lead weaving combo but more of the powerchord sound of the 80's. Kudos for trying to fit in with that sound and Jaggers growling vocals but to some I guess it was just too much of a change in direction.
Steel Wheels was sterile and generic sounding...mechanical and fake...tinny and phony. The production has not aged well, and when you have inferior songs to begin with the whole thing is completely forgettable
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
The Steel Wheels boot that was circulated a while back (with Precious Love) is not polished and sounds much better IMHO. They should release that with bonus tracks...more money in the bank.
Take the best tracks from Undercover and Dirty Work and what you get is a pretty decent album as both albums suffer from too many duds imo...
They should use the most recent releases - Blue and Lonesome and Crosseyed Heart - as blueprints for the production.
Seems only natural they would, but then again some strange curveballs (as has been mentioned) could take it to a different oddball territory.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Were they produced well? I'll take your word for it. I couldn't get past the lukewarm covers and the tuneless originals for long enough to tell.
Can't we have something produced like, oh, I don't know, Beggars Banquet?
Yes, I think that's exactly what he meant. Which is why I said earlier that it was a great rule ... that ought ideally to have been applied to their last 3 decades' worth of releases.
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: Another album in 2017 ?
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: July 11, 2017 07:05
Quote
stone4everQuote
LongBeachArena72Quote
bv
1. The material should be significant
A great rule, indeed. One cannot help but wish they might've applied it to their last 6 or 7 records.
I doubt they set out to make poor records, they are probably too close to the music they create to know how it will be received until it is received , and even then it takes time. Exile had negative reviews, it took a few years for it to get the acclaim it deserved.
I actually thought the last 6 albums were pretty good as it happens, its just that folks on IORR are hard to please
...and you're right...only horrible record they've ever really put out is dirty work. the last several have been 'pretty good' for the most part, but not classic.
Re: Another album in 2017 ?
Posted by:
LongBeachArena72
()
Date: July 11, 2017 07:18
Quote
treaclefingersQuote
stone4everQuote
LongBeachArena72Quote
bv
1. The material should be significant
A great rule, indeed. One cannot help but wish they might've applied it to their last 6 or 7 records.
I doubt they set out to make poor records, they are probably too close to the music they create to know how it will be received until it is received , and even then it takes time. Exile had negative reviews, it took a few years for it to get the acclaim it deserved.
I actually thought the last 6 albums were pretty good as it happens, its just that folks on IORR are hard to please
...and you're right...only horrible record they've ever really put out is dirty work. the last several have been 'pretty good' for the most part, but not classic.
Just for the record, I wasn't commenting on whether the records were poor or pretty good or horrible or not classic.
I was responding to bv's very specific--and fascinating, at least to me--use of the word 'significant.' Calling material "significant' is different from passing a snap judgment or offering a quick opinion. Significance connotes thought, importance, relevance, power. The Stones have not produced material meeting that standard for a very long time, in my opinion.
Re: Another Stones studio album in 2018
Posted by:
KeithNacho
()
Date: July 11, 2017 10:52
But enjoyable........................every single RS album is enjoyable, although maybe no significant
Re: Another album in 2017 ?
Posted by:
gaigai
()
Date: July 11, 2017 14:01
What is significant in 2017? Facebook, Messenger, new apps, self-driving car, etc. That is significant. A song - not anymore a significant and effective form of communication.
This is not about the Stones. No matter how brilliant the new material would be, it just can not be significant.
Times have changed.
(And I'm not happy about it.)
This is not about the Stones. No matter how brilliant the new material would be, it just can not be significant.
Times have changed.
(And I'm not happy about it.)
Re: Another album in 2017 ?
Posted by:
LongBeachArena72
()
Date: July 11, 2017 16:16
Quote
gaigai
What is significant in 2017? Facebook, Messenger, new apps, self-driving car, etc. That is significant. A song - not anymore a significant and effective form of communication.
This is not about the Stones. No matter how brilliant the new material would be, it just can not be significant.
Times have changed.
(And I'm not happy about it.)
Yeah, it's a complicated question. I agree that it's nearly impossible now for a piece of pop music to achieve the kind of cultural significance that was possible in the 60's or 70's. People are consuming music perhaps as much or more than ever before ... but what does it really mean? I'm not sure.
I think that there is 'significant' music being made by talented artists in the pop realm (Kendrick Lamar comes to mind, e.g.) ... but to the 'casual' consumer of music today do Kendrick's records really 'mean' anything, the way that, say, Hendrix' records meant something to listeners in the late 60's?
I just don't know.
Re: Another Stones studio album in 2018
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: July 11, 2017 16:24
Quote
KeithNacho
But enjoyable........................every single RS album is enjoyable, although maybe no significant
The one from 1986 is not enjoyable.
Re: Another Stones studio album in 2018
Posted by:
kovach
()
Date: July 11, 2017 19:37
Quote
GasLightStreetQuote
KeithNacho
But enjoyable........................every single RS album is enjoyable, although maybe no significant
The one from 1986 is not enjoyable.
I like Had It With You and Too Rude.
Re: Another Stones studio album in 2018
Posted by:
KeithNacho
()
Date: July 11, 2017 22:47
Even thay album is enjoyable to me
Re: Another album in 2017 ?
Posted by:
latebloomer
()
Date: July 12, 2017 01:15
Quote
LongBeachArena72Quote
gaigai
What is significant in 2017? Facebook, Messenger, new apps, self-driving car, etc. That is significant. A song - not anymore a significant and effective form of communication.
This is not about the Stones. No matter how brilliant the new material would be, it just can not be significant.
Times have changed.
(And I'm not happy about it.)
Yeah, it's a complicated question. I agree that it's nearly impossible now for a piece of pop music to achieve the kind of cultural significance that was possible in the 60's or 70's. People are consuming music perhaps as much or more than ever before ... but what does it really mean? I'm not sure.
I think that there is 'significant' music being made by talented artists in the pop realm (Kendrick Lamar comes to mind, e.g.) ... but to the 'casual' consumer of music today do Kendrick's records really 'mean' anything, the way that, say, Hendrix' records meant something to listeners in the late 60's?
I just don't know.
From the passion in his voice and the look on his face when my son plays me a favorite Kendrick Lamar song, I'd say yes LongBeach. The kids are alright and so are we.
Re: Another album in 2017 ?
Posted by:
LongBeachArena72
()
Date: July 12, 2017 03:15
Quote
latebloomerQuote
LongBeachArena72Quote
gaigai
What is significant in 2017? Facebook, Messenger, new apps, self-driving car, etc. That is significant. A song - not anymore a significant and effective form of communication.
This is not about the Stones. No matter how brilliant the new material would be, it just can not be significant.
Times have changed.
(And I'm not happy about it.)
Yeah, it's a complicated question. I agree that it's nearly impossible now for a piece of pop music to achieve the kind of cultural significance that was possible in the 60's or 70's. People are consuming music perhaps as much or more than ever before ... but what does it really mean? I'm not sure.
I think that there is 'significant' music being made by talented artists in the pop realm (Kendrick Lamar comes to mind, e.g.) ... but to the 'casual' consumer of music today do Kendrick's records really 'mean' anything, the way that, say, Hendrix' records meant something to listeners in the late 60's?
I just don't know.
From the passion in his voice and the look on his face when my son plays me a favorite Kendrick Lamar song, I'd say yes LongBeach. The kids are alright and so are we.
That is so awesome, bloomer--thx for sharing!
Re: Another Stones studio album in 2018
Posted by:
wonderboy
()
Date: July 12, 2017 04:13
My 18-year-old son loves music -- listens to it, plays it.
One thing I notice is that he is really interested in the artists as musicians -- the whole mythology thing that we grew up with doesn't seem to interest him.
One thing I notice is that he is really interested in the artists as musicians -- the whole mythology thing that we grew up with doesn't seem to interest him.
Re: Another Stones studio album in 2018
Posted by:
heinz57
()
Date: July 12, 2017 04:49
From what I've heard the new album is coming together well with some good songs and a couple of great ones
Re: Another Stones studio album in 2018
Posted by:
retired_dog
()
Date: July 12, 2017 07:42
Quote
heinz57
From what I've heard the new album is coming together well with some good songs and a couple of great ones
And that's hardly surprising because that description would fit for almost every Stones album.
Re: Another Stones studio album in 2018
Posted by:
keefriffhard4life
()
Date: July 12, 2017 09:31
Quote
retired_dogQuote
heinz57
From what I've heard the new album is coming together well with some good songs and a couple of great ones
And that's hardly surprising because that description would fit for almost every Stones album.
exactly
Re: Another album in 2017 ?
Posted by:
IanBillen
()
Date: July 12, 2017 10:04
Quote
gaigai
What is significant in 2017? Facebook, Messenger, new apps, self-driving car, etc. That is significant. A song - not anymore a significant and effective form of communication.
This is not about the Stones. No matter how brilliant the new material would be, it just can not be significant.
Times have changed.
(And I'm not happy about it.)
________________________________________
I will speak for Bv and say when he said 'significant' he meant not just another Stones album or another great Stones release. They want this one to be a good cut above some of their recent stuff / releases ..
They dont want just another Stones album that's great .. they want it to be a memorable one in their catalog .. Not meaning it has to be of the quality or magnitude of their big four or anything like that.. He simply meant not just another great sounding Stones album .. it has to carry weight.. it has to be <especially> good... Something to truly behold .. Something that matters. Something hard to deny ..
Correct me if I'm mistaken but this is how I think he meant 'significant'.
Ian
Re: Another Stones studio album in 2018
Posted by:
KRiffhard
()
Date: July 12, 2017 10:18
Quote
heinz57
From what I've heard the new album is coming together well with some good songs and a couple of great ones[[/b]/quote]
Only a couple?!!
Re: Another Stones studio album in 2018
Posted by:
bitusa2012
()
Date: July 12, 2017 10:32
Quote
heinz57
From what I've heard the new album is coming together well with some good songs and a couple of great ones
From whom have you heard this morsel of ... 'info'?
Rod
Re: Another album in 2017 ?
Posted by:
Maindefender
()
Date: July 12, 2017 13:01
Quote
IanBillenQuote
gaigai
What is significant in 2017? Facebook, Messenger, new apps, self-driving car, etc. That is significant. A song - not anymore a significant and effective form of communication.
This is not about the Stones. No matter how brilliant the new material would be, it just can not be significant.
Times have changed.
(And I'm not happy about it.)
________________________________________
I will speak for Bv and say when he said 'significant' he meant not just another Stones album or another great Stones release. They want this one to be a good cut above some of their recent stuff / releases ..
They dont want just another Stones album that's great .. they want it to be a memorable one in their catalog .. Not meaning it has to be of the quality or magnitude of their big four or anything like that.. He simply meant not just another great sounding Stones album .. it has to carry weight.. it has to be good... Something to truly behold .. Something that matters. Something hard to deny ..
Correct me if I'm mistaken but this is how I think he meant 'significant'.
Ian
Re: Another album in 2017 ?
Posted by:
GetYerAngie
()
Date: July 12, 2017 14:38
Quote
MaindefenderQuote
IanBillenQuote
gaigai
What is significant in 2017? Facebook, Messenger, new apps, self-driving car, etc. That is significant. A song - not anymore a significant and effective form of communication.
This is not about the Stones. No matter how brilliant the new material would be, it just can not be significant.
Times have changed.
(And I'm not happy about it.)
________________________________________
I will speak for Bv and say when he said 'significant' he meant not just another Stones album or another great Stones release. They want this one to be a good cut above some of their recent stuff / releases ..
They dont want just another Stones album that's great .. they want it to be a memorable one in their catalog .. Not meaning it has to be of the quality or magnitude of their big four or anything like that.. He simply meant not just another great sounding Stones album .. it has to carry weight.. it has to be good... Something to truly behold .. Something that matters. Something hard to deny ..
Correct me if I'm mistaken but this is how I think he meant 'significant'.
Ian
+1
Re: Another Stones studio album in 2018
Posted by:
VoodooLounge13
()
Date: July 12, 2017 15:54
I would think to check off all of that, they would need to record at least some of it with Bill and Mick T, no?
Also, I'm always amazed at the disdain sent toward Dirty Work. I've always loved the grit of the guitars on that album. For me, the one album that I think is truly their weakest is its predecessor, Undercover. I rarely if ever listen to that one.
Also, I'm always amazed at the disdain sent toward Dirty Work. I've always loved the grit of the guitars on that album. For me, the one album that I think is truly their weakest is its predecessor, Undercover. I rarely if ever listen to that one.
Re: Another Stones studio album in 2018
Posted by:
kovach
()
Date: July 12, 2017 16:59
Quote
VoodooLounge13
I would think to check off all of that, they would need to record at least some of it with Bill and Mick T, no?
Also, I'm always amazed at the disdain sent toward Dirty Work. I've always loved the grit of the guitars on that album. For me, the one album that I think is truly their weakest is its predecessor, Undercover. I rarely if ever listen to that one.
Just probably too mainstream, trying to fit into the MTV crowd. I still enjoy hearing songs off it but the guitars didn't seem to have that rhythm/lead weaving combo but more of the powerchord sound of the 80's. Kudos for trying to fit in with that sound and Jaggers growling vocals but to some I guess it was just too much of a change in direction.
Re: Another Stones studio album in 2018
Posted by:
maumau
()
Date: July 12, 2017 17:54
in retrospective I must say that Steel Wheels is the lowest point for me. Not much in songwriting as soundwise. That is an album that tries hard to "fit in" certain '80ies trends. The result I dont like, and it spoils also the good songs for me.
In some ways Steel Wheels it can be seenas a "case study" of Mick's falling short of his ambitions, also his "open" attitude and ears towards new trends in music. This attitude, imo, would be good if only he be keen to take more risks in being "different". In the end instead he seems happy just to apply a coat of paint of some kind of "new sound" in music instead of a full and risky commitment. I might not like the result either if he does so, but I would appreciate more the man and his creativity. Some Bridges to Babylon is an axample either of that.
On the opposite side Keith is almost irritating in his conservatorism, but he's got the feel deep in what he does. And that you hear in his solo albums and makes the special.
I hope for once to hear a "deep feel" in Mick wandering outside the comfort zone. With Keith doing his job we could be in for a nice late treat.
Too many if though ;-)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-12 18:12 by maumau.
In some ways Steel Wheels it can be seenas a "case study" of Mick's falling short of his ambitions, also his "open" attitude and ears towards new trends in music. This attitude, imo, would be good if only he be keen to take more risks in being "different". In the end instead he seems happy just to apply a coat of paint of some kind of "new sound" in music instead of a full and risky commitment. I might not like the result either if he does so, but I would appreciate more the man and his creativity. Some Bridges to Babylon is an axample either of that.
On the opposite side Keith is almost irritating in his conservatorism, but he's got the feel deep in what he does. And that you hear in his solo albums and makes the special.
I hope for once to hear a "deep feel" in Mick wandering outside the comfort zone. With Keith doing his job we could be in for a nice late treat.
Too many if though ;-)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-12 18:12 by maumau.
Re: Another Stones studio album in 2018
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: July 12, 2017 18:54
Quote
maumau
in retrospective I must say that Steel Wheels is the lowest point for me. Not much in songwriting as soundwise. That is an album that tries hard to "fit in" certain '80ies trends. The result I dont like, and it spoils also the good songs for me.
In some ways Steel Wheels it can be seenas a "case study" of Mick's falling short of his ambitions, also his "open" attitude and ears towards new trends in music. This attitude, imo, would be good if only he be keen to take more risks in being "different". In the end instead he seems happy just to apply a coat of paint of some kind of "new sound" in music instead of a full and risky commitment. I might not like the result either if he does so, but I would appreciate more the man and his creativity. Some Bridges to Babylon is an axample either of that.
On the opposite side Keith is almost irritating in his conservatorism, but he's got the feel deep in what he does. And that you hear in his solo albums and makes the special.
I hope for once to hear a "deep feel" in Mick wandering outside the comfort zone. With Keith doing his job we could be in for a nice late treat.
Too many if though ;-)
Steel Wheels was sterile and generic sounding...mechanical and fake...tinny and phony. The production has not aged well, and when you have inferior songs to begin with the whole thing is completely forgettable
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Re: Another Stones studio album in 2018
Posted by:
Turner
()
Date: July 12, 2017 19:27
Quote
HairballQuote
maumau
in retrospective I must say that Steel Wheels is the lowest point for me. Not much in songwriting as soundwise. That is an album that tries hard to "fit in" certain '80ies trends. The result I dont like, and it spoils also the good songs for me.
In some ways Steel Wheels it can be seenas a "case study" of Mick's falling short of his ambitions, also his "open" attitude and ears towards new trends in music. This attitude, imo, would be good if only he be keen to take more risks in being "different". In the end instead he seems happy just to apply a coat of paint of some kind of "new sound" in music instead of a full and risky commitment. I might not like the result either if he does so, but I would appreciate more the man and his creativity. Some Bridges to Babylon is an axample either of that.
On the opposite side Keith is almost irritating in his conservatorism, but he's got the feel deep in what he does. And that you hear in his solo albums and makes the special.
I hope for once to hear a "deep feel" in Mick wandering outside the comfort zone. With Keith doing his job we could be in for a nice late treat.
Too many if though ;-)
Steel Wheels was sterile and generic sounding...mechanical and fake...tinny and phony. The production has not aged well, and when you have inferior songs to begin with the whole thing is completely forgettable
The Steel Wheels boot that was circulated a while back (with Precious Love) is not polished and sounds much better IMHO. They should release that with bonus tracks...more money in the bank.
Re: Another Stones studio album in 2018
Posted by:
retired_dog
()
Date: July 12, 2017 19:28
Quote
VoodooLounge13
I would think to check off all of that, they would need to record at least some of it with Bill and Mick T, no?
Also, I'm always amazed at the disdain sent toward Dirty Work. I've always loved the grit of the guitars on that album. For me, the one album that I think is truly their weakest is its predecessor, Undercover. I rarely if ever listen to that one.
Take the best tracks from Undercover and Dirty Work and what you get is a pretty decent album as both albums suffer from too many duds imo...
Re: Another Stones studio album in 2018
Posted by:
frankotero
()
Date: July 12, 2017 22:29
Yes, Steel Wheels monitor mixes was superior in music quality imo. Maybe The Stones are taking this into consideration with a new album? Must be a lot of work just thinking about the approach besides just making new songs.
Re: Another Stones studio album in 2018
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: July 13, 2017 00:15
Quote
frankotero
Yes, Steel Wheels monitor mixes was superior in music quality imo. Maybe The Stones are taking this into consideration with a new album? Must be a lot of work just thinking about the approach besides just making new songs.
They should use the most recent releases - Blue and Lonesome and Crosseyed Heart - as blueprints for the production.
Seems only natural they would, but then again some strange curveballs (as has been mentioned) could take it to a different oddball territory.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Re: Another Stones studio album in 2018
Posted by:
LongBeachArena72
()
Date: July 13, 2017 01:24
Quote
HairballQuote
frankotero
Yes, Steel Wheels monitor mixes was superior in music quality imo. Maybe The Stones are taking this into consideration with a new album? Must be a lot of work just thinking about the approach besides just making new songs.
They should use the most recent releases - Blue and Lonesome and Crosseyed Heart - as blueprints for the production.
Seems only natural they would, but then again some strange curveballs (as has been mentioned) could take it to a different oddball territory.
Were they produced well? I'll take your word for it. I couldn't get past the lukewarm covers and the tuneless originals for long enough to tell.
Can't we have something produced like, oh, I don't know, Beggars Banquet?
Re: Another album in 2017 ?
Posted by:
LongBeachArena72
()
Date: July 13, 2017 01:32
Quote
IanBillen
I will speak for Bv and say when he said 'significant' he meant not just another Stones album or another great Stones release. They want this one to be a good cut above some of their recent stuff / releases ..
They dont want just another Stones album that's great .. they want it to be a memorable one in their catalog .. Not meaning it has to be of the quality or magnitude of their big four or anything like that.. He simply meant not just another great sounding Stones album .. it has to carry weight.. it has to be good... Something to truly behold .. Something that matters. Something hard to deny ..
Correct me if I'm mistaken but this is how I think he meant 'significant'.
Ian
Yes, I think that's exactly what he meant. Which is why I said earlier that it was a great rule ... that ought ideally to have been applied to their last 3 decades' worth of releases.
This Thread has been closed