Quote
Doxa
Anyway, like many here I don't consider Ronnie any strong song-writer (mostly because I find him lacking a kind of idiosyncratic character and distinguished 'pen' in that department), so I don't believe the Stones albums would have been any better if Ronnie had been given more creative role in song-writing. But compared to the stuff Mick and Keith have been able to come up with the last couple of decades, I don't either think his solo material is much weaker, if at all (despite missing that typical inner 'character' those two other guys seem to naturally have, no matter how mediocre their songs are). Probably some okayish Stones tunes could be written from his rather obvious-sounding riffs and sounds. But seemingly Mick doesn't bother...

Comparing "I feel like playing" to "Crosseyed Heart", I come to the conclusion that
the disinguished pen is lacking on both albums, but I prefer Ronnie's effort, because
he managed to make his songs sound more interesting in the end. More surprises along
the road. So I don't think he should get more room to bring songs to the studio, but
he surely deserves some input in working out arrangements and adding brilliant ideas.

Just as long as the guitar plays, let it steal your heart away

Mick's albums tend to be overloaded with stuff, Ronnie's a bit all over the place and eclectic, while Keith's album are quite minimalistic.

I guess it comes down to what you prefer. Ronnie's albums are far from «obvious» to me. On the contrary, there is always something popping up that I wouldn't expect. An album like 1234, for instance, is full of surprises, albeit it's not his best album, imo.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-06-29 11:55 by DandelionPowderman.

Quote
DandelionPowderman


I guess it comes down to what you prefer. Ronnie's albums are far from «obvious» to me. On the contrary, there is always something popping up that I wouldn't expect. An album like 1234, for instance, is full of surprises, albeit it's not his best album, imo.

Yeah, personal preferences are just that.
But it seems we agree that Ronnie has creative ideas when it comes to making music.
And I think "Blue and Lonesome" is another showcase of his abilities to lift songs of othters
to a higher level. We can just hope he gets room to manoeuvre on the new album.

Just as long as the guitar plays, let it steal your heart away

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marcovandereijk

Quote
DandelionPowderman


I guess it comes down to what you prefer. Ronnie's albums are far from «obvious» to me. On the contrary, there is always something popping up that I wouldn't expect. An album like 1234, for instance, is full of surprises, albeit it's not his best album, imo.

Yeah, personal preferences are just that.
But it seems we agree that Ronnie has creative ideas when it comes to making music.
And I think "Blue and Lonesome" is another showcase of his abilities to lift songs of othters
to a higher level. We can just hope he gets room to manoeuvre on the new album.

Yeah, he would definitly have something to add in the creative process, imo.

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marcovandereijk

Quote
Doxa
Anyway, like many here I don't consider Ronnie any strong song-writer (mostly because I find him lacking a kind of idiosyncratic character and distinguished 'pen' in that department), so I don't believe the Stones albums would have been any better if Ronnie had been given more creative role in song-writing. But compared to the stuff Mick and Keith have been able to come up with the last couple of decades, I don't either think his solo material is much weaker, if at all (despite missing that typical inner 'character' those two other guys seem to naturally have, no matter how mediocre their songs are). Probably some okayish Stones tunes could be written from his rather obvious-sounding riffs and sounds. But seemingly Mick doesn't bother...

Comparing "I feel like playing" to "Crosseyed Heart", I come to the conclusion that
the disinguished pen is lacking on both albums, but I prefer Ronnie's effort, because
he managed to make his songs sound more interesting in the end. More surprises along
the road. So I don't think he should get more room to bring songs to the studio, but
he surely deserves some input in working out arrangements and adding brilliant ideas.

Err, well you would prefer Ronnie's album, tell us something we don't know
The fact that ten percent of the population regard Ronnie's album to be better than Keith's is an irrelevance. What could Keith or any of his fan's take from such a statement. Is keith going to think damn, i must try harder to be like Ronnie on my next album.
You say Ronnie's album is more interesting and full of more surprise, What does that mean exactly. Why ? How ? Its a good album yes, probably Ronnie's best but why bring Crosseyed Heart into it.
Why the constant comparisons. They are both good solo albums from men at the late evening of their careers, i just don't see the point in this dick measuring contest anymore.

Quote
stone4ever

Quote
marcovandereijk

Quote
Doxa
Anyway, like many here I don't consider Ronnie any strong song-writer (mostly because I find him lacking a kind of idiosyncratic character and distinguished 'pen' in that department), so I don't believe the Stones albums would have been any better if Ronnie had been given more creative role in song-writing. But compared to the stuff Mick and Keith have been able to come up with the last couple of decades, I don't either think his solo material is much weaker, if at all (despite missing that typical inner 'character' those two other guys seem to naturally have, no matter how mediocre their songs are). Probably some okayish Stones tunes could be written from his rather obvious-sounding riffs and sounds. But seemingly Mick doesn't bother...

Comparing "I feel like playing" to "Crosseyed Heart", I come to the conclusion that
the disinguished pen is lacking on both albums, but I prefer Ronnie's effort, because
he managed to make his songs sound more interesting in the end. More surprises along
the road. So I don't think he should get more room to bring songs to the studio, but
he surely deserves some input in working out arrangements and adding brilliant ideas.

Err, well you would prefer Ronnie's album, tell us something we don't know
The fact that ten percent of the population regard Ronnie's album to be better than Keith's is an irrelevance. What could Keith or any of his fan's take from such a statement. Is keith going to think damn, i must try harder to be like Ronnie on my next album.
You say Ronnie's album is more interesting and full of more surprise, What does that mean exactly. Why ? How ? Its a good album yes, probably Ronnie's best but why bring Crosseyed Heart into it.
Why the constant comparisons. They are both good solo albums from men at the late evening of their careers, i just don't see the point in this dick measuring contest anymore.

Well, Keith started it

I am very grateful to all the members of this forum. I got deeply impressed by the support and concern about my SUPPOSSED coments.
Thank you all. You are great

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KeithNacho
I am very grateful to all the members of this forum. I got deeply impressed by the support and concern about my SUPPOSSED coments.
Thank you all. You are great

Had you skipped «supossed», and asked how they're doing with the new album, people would probably have told you that they just finished a two weeks-recording session in London...

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DandelionPowderman

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stone4ever


.
Why the constant comparisons. They are both good solo albums from men at the late evening of their careers, i just don't see the point in this dick measuring contest anymore.

Well, Keith started it

And our Riffie is doing his best here to keep that contest in mind...

(But that said, I think KeithNacho is right, echoing the concern of our moderator some pages ago, that we should keep this sticky-status thread more in topic..)

- Doxa

Ronnie Woods solo material is awesome...his Achilles heel is that he can't sing....imagine if he could....his grooves are awesome, and as usual so is his smoking guitar a pleasure....too bad that KR/MJ do not allow for the collaboration to evolve...they'd benefit from it greatly.

I think Woody was great in the Faces. Saw them live in the old days.

Both with the Faces and his solo albums he (co)wrote some very good songs.
Unfortunately his attempts with the Stones were never that great.I wonder why.

Still some nice stuff like Dance,Turning to gold, Black Limo . .
But its never been outstanding.

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Hairball
I never knew the "Evil Goblin King" was arrested for lashing out at his Russian girlfriend?
I do remember how crazy that whole thing was though...glad Ronnie finally saw the light!

I didn't imagine it , honest

[www.telegraph.co.uk]

Noone said Ronnie should bring 15 great songs for an album. It'd be quite alright if he brings one or two only. Provided they are one or two good songs that would possibly still be preferable to having the umpteenth sounds-like-a-hundred-cousins song by Mick or (especially) Keith.

How much say, or rooms for suggestions, Ronnie has in the studio is anybody's guess. To judge from what I read about the making of ABB, noone had much of a say in the studio apart from Mick.

Like some posters above I could also imagine that Ronnie might add some interesting ideas to otherwise boring Glim songs, or, conversely, that some of Ronnie's ideas might turn into something interesting given the Glim treatment. A great riff doesn't make a great song, but a great song fares better if it has a great riff too (at least, if it's a Stones song).

Apart from all that, I guess I'll be happy with whatever they come up with. The boys are much too professional to deliver a real bad album. And I'm less worrried about the "quality" of the songs but rather about the overall production. ABB isn't a bad album in terms of songs (not worse than many others) but imho it suffers a lot from its brickwalled and clinical sound. Likewise, if you compare some of the Voodoo Lounge outtakes to the album versions, you get an idea what great an album that could have been, had they used the arragements of the outtakes for the released versions. (Can't remember which songs exactly these were but I remember a fiddle, etc. that made the country-ish songs sound much better).

As always, I'll just have them surprise me!

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DandelionPowderman
Mick's albums tend to be overloaded with stuff, Ronnie's a bit all over the place and eclectic, while Keith's album are quite minimalistic.

Interesting comment there Dandelion, as just recently I described Ronnie's solo catalogue as "inconsistent" and you seemed to disagree with that label. And now you're saying they're "a bit all over the place and eclectic" which is basically the same as inconsistent. Maybe inconsistent has a negative slant to it though depending on how you read it, but by definition it means "not staying the same throughout"...or "a bit all over the place".

Regardless, I agree with your comments above for the most part, though "minimalistic" might not be the best term for Keith's output as he's dabbled in many genres (blues, rock, soul, reggae,, etc.)...but basically staying true to the Stonesy sound. If by minimalistic you mean not straying to far from the Stonesy sound, then I'd agree.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

In a good way, Hairball. That's what makes them exciting, imo.

I should have specified that the production of Keith's albums are minimalistic. You can hear what everyone does. The soundscape is simple but effective.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-06-29 21:12 by DandelionPowderman.

I thought Keith's album was full of surprises and interesting, the opposite of what Doxy thinks , this is the problem with these conversations, one mans meat is another man's poison. Just going through my head with Crosseyed Heart you got songs like Amnesia, Something For Nothing, Lovers Plea and Substantial Damage, i mean if these songs are not interesting or surprising i don't know what to say.
Basically the biggest surprise with CH is how god damn good it is.
From Heartstopper, Robbed blind, Nothing On Me, Suspicious, Just A Gift to Blues In The Morning, these are great tracks Ronnie or Mick would be proud to have wrote, especially this late in the day.
I don't know what people expected from Keith, a bit of a duet with Jay Z or Beyonce, the mind boggles.

Quote
stone4ever
I thought Keith's album was full of surprises and interesting, the opposite of what Doxy thinks , this is the problem with these conversations, one mans meat is another man's poison. Just going through my head with Crosseyed Heart you got songs like Amnesia, Something For Nothing, Lovers Plea and Substantial Damage, i mean if these songs are not interesting or surprising i don't know what to say.
Basically the biggest surprise with CH is how god damn good it is.
From Heartstopper, Robbed blind, Nothing On Me, Suspicious, Just A Gift to Blues In The Morning, these are great tracks Ronnie or Mick would be proud to have wrote, especially this late in the day.
I don't know what people expected from Keith, a bit of a duet with Jay Z or Beyonce, the mind boggles.

Jeroen

Quote
stone4ever
I thought Keith's album was full of surprises and interesting, the opposite of what Doxy thinks , this is the problem with these conversations, one mans meat is another man's poison. Just going through my head with Crosseyed Heart you got songs like Amnesia, Something For Nothing, Lovers Plea and Substantial Damage, i mean if these songs are not interesting or surprising i don't know what to say.
Basically the biggest surprise with CH is how god damn good it is.
From Heartstopper, Robbed blind, Nothing On Me, Suspicious, Just A Gift to Blues In The Morning, these are great tracks Ronnie or Mick would be proud to have wrote, especially this late in the day.
I don't know what people expected from Keith, a bit of a duet with Jay Z or Beyonce, the mind boggles.

riffie you are NOT going to make me listen to that yawn of a record and explain to you AGAIN why it's boring, are you? c'mon, my brother, life's too short!

ok, ok, just pick the best track and i'll listen to that. what is the BEST SONG on x-eyed heart? i'll listen to that one and report back.

and btw i've always thought a keith/tupac duet woulda been ill ...

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LongBeachArena72

Quote
stone4ever
I thought Keith's album was full of surprises and interesting, the opposite of what Doxy thinks , this is the problem with these conversations, one mans meat is another man's poison. Just going through my head with Crosseyed Heart you got songs like Amnesia, Something For Nothing, Lovers Plea and Substantial Damage, i mean if these songs are not interesting or surprising i don't know what to say.
Basically the biggest surprise with CH is how god damn good it is.
From Heartstopper, Robbed blind, Nothing On Me, Suspicious, Just A Gift to Blues In The Morning, these are great tracks Ronnie or Mick would be proud to have wrote, especially this late in the day.
I don't know what people expected from Keith, a bit of a duet with Jay Z or Beyonce, the mind boggles.

riffie you are NOT going to make me listen to that yawn of a record and explain to you AGAIN why it's boring, are you? c'mon, my brother, life's too short!

ok, ok, just pick the best track and i'll listen to that. what is the BEST SONG on x-eyed heart? i'll listen to that one and report back.

and btw i've always thought a keith/tupac duet woulda been ill ...

Just A Gift, its lovely, or Lovers Plea, one of those my friend.

Keith's lyrics are not to shabby either

Lyrics
Babe, babe, babe let me lay into you
I don't know where you're going, but I know what you been through
A little wishing or just an appreciation
Babe, babe, babe this is my lover's plea to you
Honey, honey, honey, being left out in the cold
Nothing turns to silver, nothing ever turns to gold
It's been a while, for you I'd walk that extra mile
Babe, babe, babe my lover's plea to you
This is my lover's plea to you
This is my lover's plea to you
Bitter wind is blowing and winter's getting close
It's me that wants to keep you warm, but I'm not the one you chose
It seems too tough, yeah confusion can get a little rough
Babe, babe, babe my lover's plea to you
I wonder how you're feeling now, I leave it up to you
This seems such a problem, let me help you see it through
Yeah it seems so cheap, it's enough to make a grown man weep
Babe, babe, babe my lover's plea to you
This is my lover's plea to you
This is my lover's plea to you
This is my lover's plea to you



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-06-30 10:13 by stone4ever.

robbed blind
it makes any stones ballad in the last two decades seem stale
great noir lyrics
perfect country
wish more of this stuff on new record

Quote
maumau
robbed blind
it makes any stones ballad in the last two decades seem stale
great noir lyrics
perfect country
wish more of this stuff on new record

It's a beauty.

And I always liked Suspicious - honestly though, I always loved the entire album start to finish.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Quote
stone4ever
I thought Keith's album was full of surprises and interesting, the opposite of what Doxy thinks , this is the problem with these conversations, one mans meat is another man's poison. Just going through my head with Crosseyed Heart you got songs like Amnesia, Something For Nothing, Lovers Plea and Substantial Damage, i mean if these songs are not interesting or surprising i don't know what to say.
Basically the biggest surprise with CH is how god damn good it is.
From Heartstopper, Robbed blind, Nothing On Me, Suspicious, Just A Gift to Blues In The Morning, these are great tracks Ronnie or Mick would be proud to have wrote, especially this late in the day.
I don't know what people expected from Keith, a bit of a duet with Jay Z or Beyonce, the mind boggles.

GREAT post. Spot on. CH has a warmth and 'simple' tone, almost a ragged elegance, to it. It's undeniably Keith, yet on many songs, so unlike Keith!

Rod

Quote
Hairball

Quote
maumau
robbed blind
it makes any stones ballad in the last two decades seem stale
great noir lyrics
perfect country
wish more of this stuff on new record

It's a beauty.

And I always liked Suspicious - honestly though, I always loved the entire album start to finish.

+1

The mellow stuff on CH has Dylan-quality (musically, that is). If the Stones could capture some of that vibe on their new album, I'll be happy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-06-30 10:51 by DandelionPowderman.

Quote
DandelionPowderman
The mellow stuff on CH has Dylan-quality (musically, that is). If the Stones could capture some of that vibe on their new album, I'll be happy.

where do I sign the petition for that?

and also, I have to say, I do really like the basic noirish storytelling of Keith also. Nothing on me, not among my fav ones on the record, still I love the fugitive vibe, its black and white, it's the forties, it's really simply sketched but effective, evocative. lyrics in CH contribute a lot to the whole coherent feel of the album. Another aspect that I wish the band could take as a point of reference for the new album.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-06-30 10:59 by maumau.

Quote
DandelionPowderman
The mellow stuff on CH has Dylan-quality (musically, that is). If the Stones could capture some of that vibe on their new album, I'll be happy.

I hope they wont. Dylan has at his best made mediocre albums since Time Out of Mind. And sure hope that CH will not be the model for the forthcoming album - and that Keith vocal-tracks will be restrickted to the lewell on B&L, which was one of many strengths of that album.

Funny how threads come to lead their own lifes.
I did not mean to start a dick measuring contest between any of the bands members (pun intended).
All I'd liked to say was that Ronnie should have a role in creating the new album, based
on recent experiences. And yes, personal preferences are involved in my opinion.
I don't think I am the only one who can't help but have his own taste influence
his posts on here.

Just as long as the guitar plays, let it steal your heart away

Quote
GetYerAngie

Quote
DandelionPowderman
The mellow stuff on CH has Dylan-quality (musically, that is). If the Stones could capture some of that vibe on their new album, I'll be happy.

I hope they wont. Dylan has at his best made mediocre albums since Time Out of Mind. And sure hope that CH will not be the model for the forthcoming album - and that Keith vocal-tracks will be restrickted to the lewell on B&L, which was one of many strengths of that album.

Nobody wants only mellow stuff on the new album, I suppose. I was merely pointing to the production and the vibe on those kind of tracks. Many of the Stones's latter-day ballads sounds like an elephant in a green room – no dynamics, no warmth in sound.

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LongBeachArena72

Quote
stone4ever
I thought Keith's album was full of surprises and interesting, the opposite of what Doxy thinks , this is the problem with these conversations, one mans meat is another man's poison. Just going through my head with Crosseyed Heart you got songs like Amnesia, Something For Nothing, Lovers Plea and Substantial Damage, i mean if these songs are not interesting or surprising i don't know what to say.
Basically the biggest surprise with CH is how god damn good it is.
From Heartstopper, Robbed blind, Nothing On Me, Suspicious, Just A Gift to Blues In The Morning, these are great tracks Ronnie or Mick would be proud to have wrote, especially this late in the day.
I don't know what people expected from Keith, a bit of a duet with Jay Z or Beyonce, the mind boggles.

riffie you are NOT going to make me listen to that yawn of a record and explain to you AGAIN why it's boring, are you? c'mon, my brother, life's too short!

ok, ok, just pick the best track and i'll listen to that. what is the BEST SONG on x-eyed heart? i'll listen to that one and report back.

and btw i've always thought a keith/tupac duet woulda been ill ...

I'd say either "Suspicious" or "Illusion", which are my favourites, but since you put so much emphasis on "boring", I am guessing you don't like slow songs (I might be completely wrong here, slow songs are not necesarily boring, but then again, people who are bored tend to prefer faster songs). The faster songs on CH are not the best, they are good (except for Blues in the Morning, which is just a lot of noise), but not as great as the four soul ballads. Try "Lover's Plea", is my advice - or - if you are into country - "Robbed Blind".

Quote
matxil

Quote
LongBeachArena72

Quote
stone4ever
I thought Keith's album was full of surprises and interesting, the opposite of what Doxy thinks , this is the problem with these conversations, one mans meat is another man's poison. Just going through my head with Crosseyed Heart you got songs like Amnesia, Something For Nothing, Lovers Plea and Substantial Damage, i mean if these songs are not interesting or surprising i don't know what to say.
Basically the biggest surprise with CH is how god damn good it is.
From Heartstopper, Robbed blind, Nothing On Me, Suspicious, Just A Gift to Blues In The Morning, these are great tracks Ronnie or Mick would be proud to have wrote, especially this late in the day.
I don't know what people expected from Keith, a bit of a duet with Jay Z or Beyonce, the mind boggles.

riffie you are NOT going to make me listen to that yawn of a record and explain to you AGAIN why it's boring, are you? c'mon, my brother, life's too short!

ok, ok, just pick the best track and i'll listen to that. what is the BEST SONG on x-eyed heart? i'll listen to that one and report back.

and btw i've always thought a keith/tupac duet woulda been ill ...

I'd say either "Suspicious" or "Illusion", which are my favourites, but since you put so much emphasis on "boring", I am guessing you don't like slow songs (I might be completely wrong here, slow songs are not necesarily boring, but then again, people who are bored tend to prefer faster songs). The faster songs on CH are not the best, they are good (except for Blues in the Morning, which is just a lot of noise), but not as great as the four soul ballads. Try "Lover's Plea", is my advice - or - if you are into country - "Robbed Blind".

Justc A Gift gets me every time. Country tinged tearjerker...