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LongBeachArena72

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KeithNacho
What about the supossed new album??

They're missing a real oppty if they don't call this record "The Supposed New Album by The Rolling Stones."

I love it, but I fear that you will probably be correct and there will not be a new Stones album called the Supposed New Album by the Rolling Stones.

OK, back to the Don't Stop writing process. Sorry for the interruption.

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Rokyfan

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LongBeachArena72

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KeithNacho
What about the supossed new album??

They're missing a real oppty if they don't call this record "The Supposed New Album by The Rolling Stones."

I love it, but I fear that you will probably be correct and there will not be a new Stones album called the Supposed New Album by the Rolling Stones.

OK, back to the Don't Stop writing process. Sorry for the interruption.

After 53 pages I feel like I've already played Supposed New Album more times than Blue & Lonesome, Steel Wheels, and Dirty Work, combined!

LongBeachArena72: "After 53 pages I feel like I've already played Supposed New Album more times than Blue & Lonesome, Steel Wheels, and Dirty Work, combined"!

Try listening to the Steel Wheels and Dirty Work outtakes and unreleased material from these years and imagine the great sound of Blue & Lonesome with it.

What's wrong with a new 2017 version of Strictly Memphis (Dirty Work outtake) on "NO FILTER"...

Why not make it a 12 to 14 song album with 75% of real new material and 25% of reworked older outtakes?

Or.... make it a BOXED SET ... 8 CD's (100 songs)... NO FILTER.... 25% of new material and 75% of outtakes in the best quality.

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BowieStone

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doitywoik

I guess that Mick and Keith's Paris 2002 leftovers ended up on ABB and Ronnie's tracks ended up on I Feel Like Playing.

I guess not. Those 2002 sessions sound like one of the worst sessions they ever done. And leftovers from that (the released songs were already poor) for another album? No, they rightfully abandoned it.
I don't see any connection between ABB/IFLP and 2002 sessions.

Are there any 2002 outtakes in circulation? Never seen any, although I must admit I didn't really look for them all too hard (can you point me somewhere?). Also, I have never seen any outtakes from B2B or ABB. As for the four new 40 licks songs being poor, I'm with you here completely. If the rest they did in 2002 sounds like what was released, we're rather lucky there was no album.

As for connections between 2002 and ABB - hard to say for me since I don't know what else they really did in the studio in 2002. Soundwise, ABB takes a totally different approach but that doesn't say all too much about the songs.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-09-20 19:26 by doitywoik.

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stone4ever

....Ronnie has always been insecure within the band, he is not the sort of guy to say anything in case he jeopardized his future within the band. Its like he just bottled it all up and drowned in the booze...

You base these "facts" on reports from where? His doctor? The Daily Mail? CNN? Rolling Stone? Curious.... You appear knowledgeable about Ronnie's state of mind. Yeah, right...

Rod

yup....also known as fake news.

or 'an opinion'

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LongBeachArena72

Quote
KeithNacho
What about the supossed new album??

They're missing a real oppty if they don't call this record "The Supposed New Album by The Rolling Stones."

That's not a bad title. No Filter is OK too... I mean, last time they had to come up with an album title they tried to upstage the biggest cosmic event of the last 14 billion years. WTF...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-06-28 14:58 by z.

What about some self-irony for a change? I liked Status Quo's «Still In Search For The Fourth Chord».

Something like «Still Filtering Out The Bum Notes» would perhaps do?

Well, I hope to be proved wrong, but I'm thinking now there will be no new release in the Autumn to coincide with the European tour.
Maybe ABKCO will put out an archive release.
Or from Promotone, another from the Vaults series.

Of course in Sept 1970 for the European tour then it was the GYYO live album that was put out......with work on the then new album still 'in progress'.

Deja Vu and all that?

They just finished a recording session this month and we're already saying, "There's been no news for two weeks, it's not happening this year." Deep breath. It's just a message board for a group of multi-millionaires in their seventies. There will be news of the new album soon enough.

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RipThisBone
LongBeachArena72: "After 53 pages I feel like I've already played Supposed New Album more times than Blue & Lonesome, Steel Wheels, and Dirty Work, combined"!

Try listening to the Steel Wheels and Dirty Work outtakes and unreleased material from these years and imagine the great sound of Blue & Lonesome with it.

What's wrong with a new 2017 version of Strictly Memphis (Dirty Work outtake) on "NO FILTER"...

Why not make it a 12 to 14 song album with 75% of real new material and 25% of reworked older outtakes?

Or.... make it a BOXED SET ... 8 CD's (100 songs)... NO FILTER.... 25% of new material and 75% of outtakes in the best quality.

Can't do those outtakes, RTB--they are painful to my ears. "Strictly Memphis" makes "Everything's Turning to Gold" sound like "Satisfaction."

The boxed set idea is fascinating ... except I shudder at what those 25 new original songs might sound like. That's, like, two records' worth, and they seem to be having a hard enough time getting enough stuff together for one!

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bitusa2012

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stone4ever

....Ronnie has always been insecure within the band, he is not the sort of guy to say anything in case he jeopardized his future within the band. Its like he just bottled it all up and drowned in the booze...

You base these "facts" on reports from where? His doctor? The Daily Mail? CNN? Rolling Stone? Curious.... You appear knowledgeable about Ronnie's state of mind. Yeah, right...

What can i say, i know human nature, i know people, i know Ronnie Wood.

Its not just that, these people have played their lives out through interviews and the press, if you don't pick up what makes a person tick from all that information then you are not like me.

People drink for a reason, its very telling don't you think that Ronnie finally got sober when he broke free from Joe.
I can't help it, i study the Stones on a personal level, you get to know them, it could even be a form of telepathy, who knows.
Sorry that my thoughts should offend you in any way.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-06-28 18:10 by stone4ever.

aka- Fake News

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MisterDDDD
aka- Fake News

This is not the context to which my post was written at the top of page 51.
I think that Ronnie paid the price for being a yes man for all those years.
He had and still has a lot of talent as a song writer ( his last solo album proves that ) but he was over shadowed by Mick and Keith.
Even his live playing was over shadowed by Keith for many years until recently.
I think Ronnie felt obliged to under play as not to piss off Keith.
I think this might have had a negative effect on Ronnie, possibly it contributed to him drinking, who knows. Fake news if you like, i was just talking, giving my thoughts, sorry guys.
I'll leave this place for a while.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-06-28 18:29 by stone4ever.

I actually said in my post I don't know that any of this is true. Top of page 51.

Stone4Ever, if everyone left every time someone didn't agree with their posts, very few of us would be here. I wouldn't worry about it. Your thoughts about Ronnie are just that - your thoughts. No more or less valid than anyone else who loves the band and thinks and overthinks every aspect. Casual fans do not waste their time on message boards.

Now mistaking Jo Wood for Joe Wood, that was indefensible...but I'll still send you a Christmas card.

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Rocky Dijon
Stone4Ever, if everyone left every time someone didn't agree with their posts, very few of us would be here. I wouldn't worry about it. Your thoughts about Ronnie are just that - your thoughts. No more or less valid than anyone else who loves the band and thinks and overthinks every aspect. Casual fans do not waste their time on message boards.

Now mistaking Jo Wood for Joe Wood, that was indefensible...but I'll still send you a Christmas card.

I think over sensitivity around here is catching, there's a lot of it about, my turn today

Yes Jo not Joe, an unforgivable offence i'm going to give myself a damn good thrashing.
[www.youtube.com]

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stone4ever

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MisterDDDD
aka- Fake News

This is not the context to which my post was written at the top of page 51.
I think that Ronnie paid the price for being a yes man for all those years.
He had and still has a lot of talent as a song writer ( his last solo album proves that ) but he was over shadowed by Mick and Keith.
Even his live playing was over shadowed by Keith for many years until recently.
I think Ronnie felt obliged to under play as not to piss off Keith.
I think this might have had a negative effect on Ronnie, possibly it contributed to him drinking, who knows. Fake news if you like, i was just talking, giving my thoughts, sorry guys.
I'll leave this place for a while.

Don't let the cheerleaders get you down - it's nice to hear differing thoughts and opinions.
Even if some of our thoughts and opinions are misguided and ridiculous every now and then, they're valid IMO.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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Hairball

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stone4ever

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MisterDDDD
aka- Fake News

This is not the context to which my post was written at the top of page 51.
I think that Ronnie paid the price for being a yes man for all those years.
He had and still has a lot of talent as a song writer ( his last solo album proves that ) but he was over shadowed by Mick and Keith.
Even his live playing was over shadowed by Keith for many years until recently.
I think Ronnie felt obliged to under play as not to piss off Keith.
I think this might have had a negative effect on Ronnie, possibly it contributed to him drinking, who knows. Fake news if you like, i was just talking, giving my thoughts, sorry guys.
I'll leave this place for a while.

Don't let the cheerleaders get you down - it's nice to hear differing thoughts and opinions.
Even if some of our thoughts and opinions are misguided and ridiculous every now and then, they're valid IMO.

Thanks Hairball, i appreciate that

Quote
stone4ever
This is not the context to which my post was written at the top of page 51.
I think that Ronnie paid the price for being a yes man for all those years.
He had and still has a lot of talent as a song writer ( his last solo album proves that ) but he was over shadowed by Mick and Keith.
Even his live playing was over shadowed by Keith for many years until recently.
I think Ronnie felt obliged to under play as not to piss off Keith.
I think this might have had a negative effect on Ronnie, possibly it contributed to him drinking, who knows. Fake news if you like, i was just talking, giving my thoughts, sorry guys.
I'll leave this place for a while.

Interesting thought. However, it was not like that between 1975 and 1982, speaking of live playing.

From 1989 onwards, his live playing gradually went down the hill. I always thought it had to do with the increasingly prominent general focus on "Mick - the greatest frontman on earth" and "Keith - the legendary guitar hero" during the Vegas years. In fact I went to shows where Ronnie was virtually inaudible most of the time. It's only in recent years that the guitar work audibly shifts more and more towards Ronnie again what is understandable considering Keith's increasing weaknesses.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-06-29 00:41 by retired_dog.

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retired_dog

Quote
stone4ever
This is not the context to which my post was written at the top of page 51.
I think that Ronnie paid the price for being a yes man for all those years.
He had and still has a lot of talent as a song writer ( his last solo album proves that ) but he was over shadowed by Mick and Keith.
Even his live playing was over shadowed by Keith for many years until recently.
I think Ronnie felt obliged to under play as not to piss off Keith.
I think this might have had a negative effect on Ronnie, possibly it contributed to him drinking, who knows. Fake news if you like, i was just talking, giving my thoughts, sorry guys.
I'll leave this place for a while.

Interesting thought. However, it was not like that between 1975 and 1982, speaking of live playing.

From 1989 onwards, his live playing gradually went down the hill. I always thought it had to do with the increasingly prominent general focus on "Mick - the greatest frontman on earth" and "Keith - the legendary guitar hero" during the Vegas years. In fact I went to shows where Ronnie was virtually inaudible most of the time. It's only in recent years that the guitar work audibly shifts more and more towards Ronnie again what is understandable considering Keith's increasing weaknesses.

His heavy drinking might also have contributed to his inferior playing from '89 onwards. I've seen him at shows thenwhere it looked like he didn't give a shit about anything other than laughing and scrambling around the stage behind Mick. It was almost like like he was intent on sabotaging of the show with his carelessnes, but maybe it was unintentional and alcohol was to blame.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Before our moderator starts more aggressive gestures in polishing this sticky thread back to focus, I also briefly comment Ronnie's odd neglection.

Namely, he seemingly was rather involved in writing processes during the 'old days' all the way to DIRTY WORK (and of course, starting as early as in "It's Only Rock'n'Roll"). If in UNDERCOVER he was Jagger's sparring partner, in DIRTY WORK he was Keith's - and getting also his own songs through in the process. But the deal since the 're-union' or the order from 1989 has been him having not much involvement in creating the songs - more like just adding his guitar parts almost like a hired studio hand. Probably some of that might have been with his condition, but to me it looks more like that it is somehow linked to the deal Mick and Keith - and thereby the Stones - operate together. Or like the way they've used to work separately, even when writing stuff to the Stones; Mick having people like Clifford around, Keith people like Jordan - neither seem to 'need' Ronnie. Or are not interested in his songs by the time they are making albums.

Altogether one of the oddities of the post WWIII - but also a logical consequence of the Stones started being nothing but a Jagger/Richards showcase - is Ronnie's fate in the band (and like stone4ever and retired dog noticed in regards live shows before this never-ending 50 AND COUNTING tour) - despite him getting a full membership. But that said, Ronnie was more integrated to the band in BLUE & LONESOME and the guitar section me thinks being more in a balance since the good ole Pathe Marconi days. Let's see what happens in THE SUPPOSED NEW ROLLING STONES ALBUM or is it called HIT THE WALL...

Anyway, like many here I don't consider Ronnie any strong song-writer (mostly because I find him lacking a kind of idiosyncratic character and distinguished 'pen' in that department), so I don't believe the Stones albums would have been any better if Ronnie had been given more creative role in song-writing. But compared to the stuff Mick and Keith have been able to come up with the last couple of decades, I don't either think his solo material is much weaker, if at all (despite missing that typical inner 'character' those two other guys seem to naturally have, no matter how mediocre their songs are). Probably some okayish Stones tunes could be written from his rather obvious-sounding riffs and sounds. But seemingly Mick doesn't bother...

- Doxa

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stone4ever

What can i say, i know human nature, i know people, i know Ronnie Wood.

Sorry that my thoughts should offend you in any way.

For someone who 'knows people', not sure how you could glean I am offended. I am, as stated, CURIOUS. You appear so knowledgeable. You MAY be correct, you MAY be an 'insider', you MAY be s-o very insightful as to make such 'factual' statements. Methinks, though, you may be just a wee bit full of yourself. Sorry if that offends you.

Rod

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bitusa2012

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stone4ever

What can i say, i know human nature, i know people, i know Ronnie Wood.

Sorry that my thoughts should offend you in any way.

For someone who 'knows people', not sure how you could glean I am offended. I am, as stated, CURIOUS. You appear so knowledgeable. You MAY be correct, you MAY be an 'insider', you MAY be s-o very insightful as to make such 'factual' statements. Methinks, though, you may be just a wee bit full of yourself. Sorry if that offends you.

No i'm not an insider
Yes i'm insightful
No these are not factual statements
Yes i'm a wee bit full of myself
No i'm not offended
Yes i know people

But of course you new this anyway, you know people too.
Happy now.

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Hairball

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retired_dog

Quote
stone4ever
This is not the context to which my post was written at the top of page 51.
I think that Ronnie paid the price for being a yes man for all those years.
He had and still has a lot of talent as a song writer ( his last solo album proves that ) but he was over shadowed by Mick and Keith.
Even his live playing was over shadowed by Keith for many years until recently.
I think Ronnie felt obliged to under play as not to piss off Keith.
I think this might have had a negative effect on Ronnie, possibly it contributed to him drinking, who knows. Fake news if you like, i was just talking, giving my thoughts, sorry guys.
I'll leave this place for a while.

Interesting thought. However, it was not like that between 1975 and 1982, speaking of live playing.

From 1989 onwards, his live playing gradually went down the hill. I always thought it had to do with the increasingly prominent general focus on "Mick - the greatest frontman on earth" and "Keith - the legendary guitar hero" during the Vegas years. In fact I went to shows where Ronnie was virtually inaudible most of the time. It's only in recent years that the guitar work audibly shifts more and more towards Ronnie again what is understandable considering Keith's increasing weaknesses.

His heavy drinking might also have contributed to his inferior playing from '89 onwards. I've seen him at shows thenwhere it looked like he didn't give a shit about anything other than laughing and scrambling around the stage behind Mick. It was almost like like he was intent on sabotaging of the show with his carelessnes, but maybe it was unintentional and alcohol was to blame.

Definitely Hairball, i can't count the amount of shows he ruined between 89' to 50 and counting purely down to his drinking. Its only since he got sober that we can see that his drinking was to blame. I THINK we just thought he was really that crap a guitarist.
I THINK Keith encouraged it if anything, they would both go on stage pretty loaded but somehow with the right mix of drink and coke Keith could mostly pull it off.
Also when it comes to his songwriting i wonder what might have been had Ronnie not been consumed by alcohol, he MIGHT have been a very good writer during these years with his mind straight and focussed.

Quote
Doxa
Before our moderator starts more aggressive gestures in polishing this sticky thread back to focus, I also briefly comment Ronnie's odd neglection.

Namely, he seemingly was rather involved in writing processes during the 'old days' all the way to DIRTY WORK (and of course, starting as early as in "It's Only Rock'n'Roll"). If in UNDERCOVER he was Jagger's sparring partner, in DIRTY WORK he was Keith's - and getting also his own songs through in the process. But the deal since the 're-union' or the order from 1989 has been him having not much involvement in creating the songs - more like just adding his guitar parts almost like a hired studio hand. Probably some of that might have been with his condition, but to me it looks more like that it is somehow linked to the deal Mick and Keith - and thereby the Stones - operate together. Or like the way they've used to work separately, even when writing stuff to the Stones; Mick having people like Clifford around, Keith people like Jordan - neither seem to 'need' Ronnie. Or are not interested in his songs by the time they are making albums.

Altogether one of the oddities of the post WWIII - but also a logical consequence of the Stones started being nothing but a Jagger/Richards showcase - is Ronnie's fate in the band (and like stone4ever and retired dog noticed in regards live shows before this never-ending 50 AND COUNTING tour) - despite him getting a full membership. But that said, Ronnie was more integrated to the band in BLUE & LONESOME and the guitar section me thinks being more in a balance since the good ole Pathe Marconi days. Let's see what happens in THE SUPPOSED NEW ROLLING STONES ALBUM or is it called HIT THE WALL...

Anyway, like many here I don't consider Ronnie any strong song-writer (mostly because I find him lacking a kind of idiosyncratic character and distinguished 'pen' in that department), so I don't believe the Stones albums would have been any better if Ronnie had been given more creative role in song-writing. But compared to the stuff Mick and Keith have been able to come up with the last couple of decades, I don't either think his solo material is much weaker, if at all (despite missing that typical inner 'character' those two other guys seem to naturally have, no matter how mediocre their songs are). Probably some okayish Stones tunes could be written from his rather obvious-sounding riffs and sounds. But seemingly Mick doesn't bother...

- Doxa

I read somewhere that Black Limousine dates back to 1973, so that might have been the first..

Quote
stone4ever

Quote
Hairball

Quote
retired_dog

Quote
stone4ever
This is not the context to which my post was written at the top of page 51.
I think that Ronnie paid the price for being a yes man for all those years.
He had and still has a lot of talent as a song writer ( his last solo album proves that ) but he was over shadowed by Mick and Keith.
Even his live playing was over shadowed by Keith for many years until recently.
I think Ronnie felt obliged to under play as not to piss off Keith.
I think this might have had a negative effect on Ronnie, possibly it contributed to him drinking, who knows. Fake news if you like, i was just talking, giving my thoughts, sorry guys.
I'll leave this place for a while.

Interesting thought. However, it was not like that between 1975 and 1982, speaking of live playing.

From 1989 onwards, his live playing gradually went down the hill. I always thought it had to do with the increasingly prominent general focus on "Mick - the greatest frontman on earth" and "Keith - the legendary guitar hero" during the Vegas years. In fact I went to shows where Ronnie was virtually inaudible most of the time. It's only in recent years that the guitar work audibly shifts more and more towards Ronnie again what is understandable considering Keith's increasing weaknesses.

His heavy drinking might also have contributed to his inferior playing from '89 onwards. I've seen him at shows thenwhere it looked like he didn't give a shit about anything other than laughing and scrambling around the stage behind Mick. It was almost like like he was intent on sabotaging of the show with his carelessnes, but maybe it was unintentional and alcohol was to blame.

Definitely Hairball, i can't count the amount of shows he ruined between 89' to 50 and counting purely down to his drinking. Its only since he got sober that we can see that his drinking was to blame. I THINK we just thought he was really that crap a guitarist.
I THINK Keith encouraged it if anything, they would both go on stage pretty loaded but somehow with the right mix of drink and coke Keith could mostly pull it off.
Also when it comes to his songwriting i wonder what might have been had Ronnie not been consumed by alcohol, he MIGHT have been a very good writer during these years with his mind straight and focussed.

Not to mention the quality of some of the artwork/paintings he produced, or the lack thereof.
Some of his paintings and prints are very good (I own one of his prints), but there's some stuff that is just really bad imo.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Quote
Hairball

Quote
stone4ever

Quote
Hairball

Quote
retired_dog

Quote
stone4ever
This is not the context to which my post was written at the top of page 51.
I think that Ronnie paid the price for being a yes man for all those years.
He had and still has a lot of talent as a song writer ( his last solo album proves that ) but he was over shadowed by Mick and Keith.
Even his live playing was over shadowed by Keith for many years until recently.
I think Ronnie felt obliged to under play as not to piss off Keith.
I think this might have had a negative effect on Ronnie, possibly it contributed to him drinking, who knows. Fake news if you like, i was just talking, giving my thoughts, sorry guys.
I'll leave this place for a while.

Interesting thought. However, it was not like that between 1975 and 1982, speaking of live playing.

From 1989 onwards, his live playing gradually went down the hill. I always thought it had to do with the increasingly prominent general focus on "Mick - the greatest frontman on earth" and "Keith - the legendary guitar hero" during the Vegas years. In fact I went to shows where Ronnie was virtually inaudible most of the time. It's only in recent years that the guitar work audibly shifts more and more towards Ronnie again what is understandable considering Keith's increasing weaknesses.

His heavy drinking might also have contributed to his inferior playing from '89 onwards. I've seen him at shows thenwhere it looked like he didn't give a shit about anything other than laughing and scrambling around the stage behind Mick. It was almost like like he was intent on sabotaging of the show with his carelessnes, but maybe it was unintentional and alcohol was to blame.

Definitely Hairball, i can't count the amount of shows he ruined between 89' to 50 and counting purely down to his drinking. Its only since he got sober that we can see that his drinking was to blame. I THINK we just thought he was really that crap a guitarist.
I THINK Keith encouraged it if anything, they would both go on stage pretty loaded but somehow with the right mix of drink and coke Keith could mostly pull it off.
Also when it comes to his songwriting i wonder what might have been had Ronnie not been consumed by alcohol, he MIGHT have been a very good writer during these years with his mind straight and focussed.

Not to mention the quality of some of the artwork/paintings he produced, or the lack thereof.
Some of his paintings and prints are very good (I own one of his prints), but there's some stuff that is just really bad imo.

Ronnie has this Freedom thing going on since he got sober, i know exactly what he means, the guy actually inspired me to some degree.
Yep he is a better artist than guitarist for sure, he is a jack of all and master of none. Sorry Ronnie but its true
He is this really nice chap but Ronnie also has his demons, his ex girlfriend called him the evil goblin king lol. I think he had to stop drinking in the end, he got arrested for lashing out at his then Russian girlfriend. He obviously bought her silence because she has not uttered a word about their time together. He gets a very good press though these days, he pulled it all together at the right time.
I come across as too personal when i talk about the Stones, its just that when people inspire me such as the Stones, i want to know what makes them tick.
Keith once said you can't open us up to see what's inside, so you just end up excepting it. I think that's good advice from Keith because if he analyzed what makes he and Mick so special he could destroy it. Perhaps that's what Mick has done. Oh sorry Hairball i'm rambling again

I never knew the "Evil Goblin King" was arrested for lashing out at his Russian girlfriend?
I do remember how crazy that whole thing was though...glad Ronnie finally saw the light!

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......