Quote
roryfaninva
From the Hoffman form- and lets admit that John Simon actually knows the facts...
Here's John Simon's perspective on the songwriting question, from a 1999 interview:

Q: What's your take on the way the songwriting credits came down?

Simon: Oh, I have a finely honed opinion on that.

Q: Robbie Robertson says that he tried to get Richard involved and he was also fair when it came to giving credit to whoever was in the room at the time of writing.

Simon: Robbie was fair, yes indeed. Robbie was fair based on an old system. I don't know if you have the new math in England. Mathematics. It's like two different systems, the old math and the new one. The old system of contributing songwriting credits was very distinct - there were people who wrote songs and people who performed songs. And they were different people. You know, Frank Sinatra on very few occasions wrote a song, he was the singer. Sammy Cahn and Johnny Mercer were the writers and not the performers. So, that kind of thing. Like the Gershwins and the Rogers & Hart. All of those people were just songwriters. And that's the system under which Robbie determined that he would be songwriter of those songs. And its true, Robbie was the one who wrote the lyrics and wrote the music. Wrote the lyrics on legal paper, or whatever he wrote it on, and figured out the chords to the song and dictated the melody and chords to the other players. Okay.

Quote
mtaylor

Quote
roryfaninva
From the Hoffman form- and lets admit that John Simon actually knows the facts...
Here's John Simon's perspective on the songwriting question, from a 1999 interview:

Q: What's your take on the way the songwriting credits came down?

Simon: Oh, I have a finely honed opinion on that.

Q: Robbie Robertson says that he tried to get Richard involved and he was also fair when it came to giving credit to whoever was in the room at the time of writing.

Simon: Robbie was fair, yes indeed. Robbie was fair based on an old system. I don't know if you have the new math in England. Mathematics. It's like two different systems, the old math and the new one. The old system of contributing songwriting credits was very distinct - there were people who wrote songs and people who performed songs. And they were different people. You know, Frank Sinatra on very few occasions wrote a song, he was the singer. Sammy Cahn and Johnny Mercer were the writers and not the performers. So, that kind of thing. Like the Gershwins and the Rogers & Hart. All of those people were just songwriters. And that's the system under which Robbie determined that he would be songwriter of those songs. And its true, Robbie was the one who wrote the lyrics and wrote the music. Wrote the lyrics on legal paper, or whatever he wrote it on, and figured out the chords to the song and dictated the melody and chords to the other players. Okay.

Any reason why Manuel stopped writing songs?

He contributed on the first 3 albums.

Quote
mtaylor

Quote
roryfaninva
From the Hoffman form- and lets admit that John Simon actually knows the facts...
Here's John Simon's perspective on the songwriting question, from a 1999 interview:

Q: What's your take on the way the songwriting credits came down?

Simon: Oh, I have a finely honed opinion on that.

Q: Robbie Robertson says that he tried to get Richard involved and he was also fair when it came to giving credit to whoever was in the room at the time of writing.

Simon: Robbie was fair, yes indeed. Robbie was fair based on an old system. I don't know if you have the new math in England. Mathematics. It's like two different systems, the old math and the new one. The old system of contributing songwriting credits was very distinct - there were people who wrote songs and people who performed songs. And they were different people. You know, Frank Sinatra on very few occasions wrote a song, he was the singer. Sammy Cahn and Johnny Mercer were the writers and not the performers. So, that kind of thing. Like the Gershwins and the Rogers & Hart. All of those people were just songwriters. And that's the system under which Robbie determined that he would be songwriter of those songs. And its true, Robbie was the one who wrote the lyrics and wrote the music. Wrote the lyrics on legal paper, or whatever he wrote it on, and figured out the chords to the song and dictated the melody and chords to the other players. Okay.

Any reason why Manuel stopped writing songs?

He contributed on the first 3 albums.

Quote
potus43
robertson is a punk the rest of the band hated him

Quote
potus43
robertson is a punk the rest of the band hated him

Quote
triceratops

Quote
potus43
robertson is a punk the rest of the band hated him

Pretty much so, though Levon was the most outspoken. Really outspoken.

Quote
keefriffhard4life

Quote
triceratops

Quote
potus43
robertson is a punk the rest of the band hated him

Pretty much so, though Levon was the most outspoken. Really outspoken.

so why did 3 of them appear on multiple solo releases by Robertson then? Levon seems like a bitter person who made bad decisions in life. I think levon himself has said a fire and bad investing was the reason he lost most of his money but then tries to blame Robertson even though its clear he didn't write tunes

Quote
TheGreek

Quote
keefriffhard4life

Quote
triceratops

Quote
potus43
robertson is a punk the rest of the band hated him

Pretty much so, though Levon was the most outspoken. Really outspoken.

so why did 3 of them appear on multiple solo releases by Robertson then? Levon seems like a bitter person who made bad decisions in life. I think levon himself has said a fire and bad investing was the reason he lost most of his money but then tries to blame Robertson even though its clear he didn't write tunes

Really , from my reasearch Garth Hudson and Rick Danko appear not Levon .Please provide proof .

Quote
keefriffhard4life

Quote
TheGreek

Quote
keefriffhard4life

Quote
triceratops

Quote
potus43
robertson is a punk the rest of the band hated him

Pretty much so, though Levon was the most outspoken. Really outspoken.

so why did 3 of them appear on multiple solo releases by Robertson then? Levon seems like a bitter person who made bad decisions in life. I think levon himself has said a fire and bad investing was the reason he lost most of his money but then tries to blame Robertson even though its clear he didn't write tunes

Really , from my reasearch Garth Hudson and Rick Danko appear not Levon .Please provide proof .

well there are 5 guys in the band and my statement says when did 3 of them appear on Robertson solo releases, thats clearly what I wrote. The odd man out was levon. Richard Manuel appears on 2 soundtrack contributions robbie did.so why did 3 guys who hate robbie continue to work with him? The op said the rest of the group hates him. I've provide plenty of quotes and evidence that levon simply was bitter towards Robertson and didn't write tunes and was probably upset Robertson had 2 successful solo albums that went gold while nothing helm did after the original band was greeted with the same success. Oh yeah his grammys for albums made up of songs he did not write.

Quote
keefriffhard4life
Proof of what? I gave quotes by people who worked with helm in the 90s. I pointed out the writing credits prior to 1970 when drugs took over most of the band showing lots of credits given to others. I mentioned the lack if writing credits on levons on solo work and non Robertson band releases. I mentioned demos of just robbie or robbie and another member, not helm, that sound pretty much exactly like the versions of the songs the band did. I posted a Robertson solo tune "between trains" that sounds just like a tune by the band and levon had no hand in it. I mentioned 3 of the other guys worked with robbie as a solo artist.


your proof is you meet them, they are nice. Helm won grammys for albums comprised almost entirely of songs he has no writing credit on

Quote
RollingFreak
Seems like people have already chosen their sides in this Band feud and really aren't budging, whether rightly or wrongly. Its not really for us to judge. I'll remind people though that Danko, Robertson and Hudson did play together at the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame. Maybe not the most genuine, but the only one who truly refused was Levon. I think thats basically what the relationship was like. They all sorta resented Robbie, but they didn't hate him cause they knew that in the end he was key to the band. Levon was the only one, and maybe with good reason, that really didn't like him.

Also, I just love their playing on The Last Waltz. I know its a controversial release, but they all sounded and played so good there and I regularly listen to just the Band concert songs from that all the time. I rather look at that than all the talk about who hated who.

Quote
keefriffhard4life
Proof of what? I gave quotes by people who worked with helm in the 90s. I pointed out the writing credits prior to 1970 when drugs took over most of the band showing lots of credits given to others. I mentioned the lack if writing credits on levons on solo work and non Robertson band releases. I mentioned demos of just robbie or robbie and another member, not helm, that sound pretty much exactly like the versions of the songs the band did. I posted a Robertson solo tune "between trains" that sounds just like a tune by the band and levon had no hand in it. I mentioned 3 of the other guys worked with robbie as a solo artist.


your proof is you meet them, they are nice. Helm won grammys for albums comprised almost entirely of songs he has no writing credit on

Quote
TheGreek

Quote
RollingFreak
Seems like people have already chosen their sides in this Band feud and really aren't budging, whether rightly or wrongly. Its not really for us to judge. I'll remind people though that Danko, Robertson and Hudson did play together at the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame. Maybe not the most genuine, but the only one who truly refused was Levon. I think thats basically what the relationship was like. They all sorta resented Robbie, but they didn't hate him cause they knew that in the end he was key to the band. Levon was the only one, and maybe with good reason, that really didn't like him.

Also, I just love their playing on The Last Waltz. I know its a controversial release, but they all sounded and played so good there and I regularly listen to just the Band concert songs from that all the time. I rather look at that than all the talk about who hated who.

The Band was about the 3 part(Helm,Danko and Manuel) vocal harmonies and the multi instrumental members (4 out of 5 ) and the wonderfull music they made together . One person alone does not make or create such a truly great piece of art like that .

Quote
TheGreek

Quote
keefriffhard4life
Proof of what? I gave quotes by people who worked with helm in the 90s. I pointed out the writing credits prior to 1970 when drugs took over most of the band showing lots of credits given to others. I mentioned the lack if writing credits on levons on solo work and non Robertson band releases. I mentioned demos of just robbie or robbie and another member, not helm, that sound pretty much exactly like the versions of the songs the band did. I posted a Robertson solo tune "between trains" that sounds just like a tune by the band and levon had no hand in it. I mentioned 3 of the other guys worked with robbie as a solo artist.


your proof is you meet them, they are nice. Helm won grammys for albums comprised almost entirely of songs he has no writing credit on

I was responding to your own words(that 3 members of The Band were on Robbie's solo albums and i found proff of Rick Danko and Garth Hudson ) and i asked you to back it up with factual information .

Quote
TheGreek

Quote
keefriffhard4life
Proof of what? I gave quotes by people who worked with helm in the 90s. I pointed out the writing credits prior to 1970 when drugs took over most of the band showing lots of credits given to others. I mentioned the lack if writing credits on levons on solo work and non Robertson band releases. I mentioned demos of just robbie or robbie and another member, not helm, that sound pretty much exactly like the versions of the songs the band did. I posted a Robertson solo tune "between trains" that sounds just like a tune by the band and levon had no hand in it. I mentioned 3 of the other guys worked with robbie as a solo artist.


your proof is you meet them, they are nice. Helm won grammys for albums comprised almost entirely of songs he has no writing credit on

While Levon Helm won 3 Grammy awards for his solo material "for finding songs that sound like the Band" Robbie was busy peddling childrens books and hawking yet another repackaged version of The Last Waltz. And if GRAMMYS mean nothing ,aren't sales also irrelevant ?

Quote
TheGreek

Quote
RollingFreak
Seems like people have already chosen their sides in this Band feud and really aren't budging, whether rightly or wrongly. Its not really for us to judge. I'll remind people though that Danko, Robertson and Hudson did play together at the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame. Maybe not the most genuine, but the only one who truly refused was Levon. I think thats basically what the relationship was like. They all sorta resented Robbie, but they didn't hate him cause they knew that in the end he was key to the band. Levon was the only one, and maybe with good reason, that really didn't like him.

Also, I just love their playing on The Last Waltz. I know its a controversial release, but they all sounded and played so good there and I regularly listen to just the Band concert songs from that all the time. I rather look at that than all the talk about who hated who.

The Band was about the 3 part(Helm,Danko and Manuel) vocal harmonies and the multi instrumental members (4 out of 5 ) and the wonderfull music they made together . One person alone does not make or create such a truly great piece of art like that .

Quote
keefriffhard4life

Quote
TheGreek

Quote
keefriffhard4life
Proof of what? I gave quotes by people who worked with helm in the 90s. I pointed out the writing credits prior to 1970 when drugs took over most of the band showing lots of credits given to others. I mentioned the lack if writing credits on levons on solo work and non Robertson band releases. I mentioned demos of just robbie or robbie and another member, not helm, that sound pretty much exactly like the versions of the songs the band did. I posted a Robertson solo tune "between trains" that sounds just like a tune by the band and levon had no hand in it. I mentioned 3 of the other guys worked with robbie as a solo artist.


your proof is you meet them, they are nice. Helm won grammys for albums comprised almost entirely of songs he has no writing credit on

While Levon Helm won 3 Grammy awards for his solo material "for finding songs that sound like the Band" Robbie was busy peddling childrens books and hawking yet another repackaged version of The Last Waltz. And if GRAMMYS mean nothing ,aren't sales also irrelevant ?

you seem to want to not talk about the elephant in the room. The lack of helm writing credit for his own solo material. Its like you try and deflect that issue and talk about Robertson projects. He has said many times when I have something to say musically I'll make an album. He has done that 5 times plus several randon tunes.

Quote
TheGreek
Robbie did not attend Richard's funeral.Levon never forgave him for that .

Quote
RollingFreak

Quote
TheGreek
Robbie did not attend Richard's funeral.Levon never forgave him for that .

Robbie went to Helm's bedside when he was dying. That must eat away at you. Stupid a-hole going there just to hold his hand. And I've never anyone related to Helm say that he DIDN'T forgive Robbie before he died.

Quote
TheGreek

Quote
keefriffhard4life

Quote
TheGreek

Quote
keefriffhard4life
Proof of what? I gave quotes by people who worked with helm in the 90s. I pointed out the writing credits prior to 1970 when drugs took over most of the band showing lots of credits given to others. I mentioned the lack if writing credits on levons on solo work and non Robertson band releases. I mentioned demos of just robbie or robbie and another member, not helm, that sound pretty much exactly like the versions of the songs the band did. I posted a Robertson solo tune "between trains" that sounds just like a tune by the band and levon had no hand in it. I mentioned 3 of the other guys worked with robbie as a solo artist.


your proof is you meet them, they are nice. Helm won grammys for albums comprised almost entirely of songs he has no writing credit on

While Levon Helm won 3 Grammy awards for his solo material "for finding songs that sound like the Band" Robbie was busy peddling childrens books and hawking yet another repackaged version of The Last Waltz. And if GRAMMYS mean nothing ,aren't sales also irrelevant ?

you seem to want to not talk about the elephant in the room. The lack of helm writing credit for his own solo material. Its like you try and deflect that issue and talk about Robertson projects. He has said many times when I have something to say musically I'll make an album. He has done that 5 times plus several randon tunes.

Compare the credits on two Martin Scorsese concert films .On The Last Waltz , Robbie is the only band member listed as a producer.On Shine A Light, Mick,Keith ,Charlie and Ronnie are credited. Why? Better management/representation ,willingness to share credit, or something more shady and nefarious going on ? Robbie did not attend Richard's funeral.Levon never forgave him for that .And Levon and Rick were the ones who found Richard hanging and cut him down. Robbie did attend Rick's funeral,and Levon did not speak to him .At the memorial service,Robbie took the opportunity to tell the public how beautifully Rick sang the songs HE wrote. Way to be classy and appropriate.

Quote
TheGreek
Here is a article by John Simon the Producer [www.elmoremagazine.com][/quote

so the guy gets $600 a year from the waltz, has no clue if he would get more or less from the first 2 albums and complains but no evidence in the article states how much anyone else makes. the last since has someone else claiming no one gets much of anything from it

Quote
TheGreek

Quote
RollingFreak

Quote
TheGreek
Robbie did not attend Richard's funeral.Levon never forgave him for that .

Robbie went to Helm's bedside when he was dying. That must eat away at you. Stupid a-hole going there just to hold his hand. And I've never anyone related to Helm say that he DIDN'T forgive Robbie before he died.

Sure Robbie went to make peace with a comatose Levon Helm .Nice gesture