In 1969 the psychedelia was already sort of history. The Lady Madonna single in 1968 by The Beatles marked that the whole music industry (sic) was going in a roots direction.

However, a gospel influence seemed to happen simultaniously for both The Stones with their "You Can`t Always Get What You Want", for The Beatles with their "Let It Be", and last but not least for Simon & Garfunkel with their "Bridge Over Troubled Water". "Jesus Christ Superstar" and the whole Jesus movement were only a couple of years away. There were Ten Sing groups and "Young Vision" up until the early 80s...

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noughties
In 1969 the psychedelia was already sort of history. The Lady Madonna single in 1968 by The Beatles marked that the whole music industry (sic) was going in a roots direction.

However, a gospel influence seemed to happen simultaniously for both The Stones with their "You Can`t Always Get What You Want", for The Beatles with their "Let It Be", and last but not least for Simon & Garfunkel with their "Bridge Over Troubled Water". "Jesus Christ Superstar" and the whole Jesus movement were only a couple of years away. There were Ten Sing groups and "Young Vision" up until the early 80s...

Your analysis is a little too black and white, imo, although there might be some trutch to it indeed.

However, the gospel-thing is interesting (the country/americana/folk-influence, too, round that time).

The Stones had Salt Of The Earth in 1968 first, though. YCAGWYW's musical predecessor, imo.

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DandelionPowderman

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noughties
In 1969 the psychedelia was already sort of history. The Lady Madonna single in 1968 by The Beatles marked that the whole music industry (sic) was going in a roots direction.

However, a gospel influence seemed to happen simultaniously for both The Stones with their "You Can`t Always Get What You Want", for The Beatles with their "Let It Be", and last but not least for Simon & Garfunkel with their "Bridge Over Troubled Water". "Jesus Christ Superstar" and the whole Jesus movement were only a couple of years away. There were Ten Sing groups and "Young Vision" up until the early 80s...

Your analysis is a little too black and white, imo, although there might be some trutch to it indeed.

However, the gospel-thing is interesting (the country/americana/folk-influence, too, round that time).

The Stones had Salt Of The Earth in 1968 first, though. YCAGWYW's musical predecessor, imo.

I read your post, Dandelion, as possibly touching on the following point of view that I share, here only hinted at by me:

The expression "going in a roots direction" gives the impression that bands simply moved back from experimentation with psychedelic musical forms to familiar well-used music forms as origin. But what happened, may also be seen as a movement forward at the time in new directions. Vital bands or individuals working with ethnic music elements in new ways. There were vast areas open for musical experimentation and innovation at this time. And, as, for instance, to the Rolling Stones, neither with a clear cut break with what they themselves had formerly done, so far as some psychedelia and/or "freak music" elements were carried with them, as some posters formerly have discussed in depth, haven't you among them, Dandelion?

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Witness

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DandelionPowderman

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noughties
In 1969 the psychedelia was already sort of history. The Lady Madonna single in 1968 by The Beatles marked that the whole music industry (sic) was going in a roots direction.

However, a gospel influence seemed to happen simultaniously for both The Stones with their "You Can`t Always Get What You Want", for The Beatles with their "Let It Be", and last but not least for Simon & Garfunkel with their "Bridge Over Troubled Water". "Jesus Christ Superstar" and the whole Jesus movement were only a couple of years away. There were Ten Sing groups and "Young Vision" up until the early 80s...

Your analysis is a little too black and white, imo, although there might be some trutch to it indeed.

However, the gospel-thing is interesting (the country/americana/folk-influence, too, round that time).

The Stones had Salt Of The Earth in 1968 first, though. YCAGWYW's musical predecessor, imo.

I read your post, Dandelion, as possibly touching on the following point of view that I share, here only hinted at by me:

The expression "going in a roots direction" gives the impression that bands simply moved back from experimentation with psychedelic musical forms to familiar well-used music forms as origin. But what happened, may also be seen as a movement forward at the time in new directions. Vital bands or individuals working with ethnic music elements in new ways. There were vast areas open for musical experimentation and innovation at this time. And, as, for instance, to the Rolling Stones, neither with a clear cut break with what they themselves had formerly done, so far as some psychedelia and/or "freak music" elements were carried with them, as some posters formerly have discussed in depth, haven't you among them, Dandelion?

Indeed I was. However, as the british psychedelic music evolved out of the british rock/pop/music hall-scene, the transition «back» to roots was also a forward-looking step, imo.

The country, blues, folk and rock that evolved round 1968 had a new sound. Gram Parsons was dirtier and more «rock» than his heroes (like the Stones had been compared to Chuck Berry) and the Stones themselves sounded heavier when they took up blues/country/folk than they did on Now. They played gospel already on their first album, but this time they penned gospel songs themselves, with their own sound.

Well, I'm just rambling on here, but it's an interesting subject indeed

Perhaps Delaney and Bonnie captured both gospel and roots at the same time - ala portions of Exile.

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Elmo Lewis
Perhaps Delaney and Bonnie captured both gospel and roots at the same time - ala portions of Exile.

Good call! They were certainly instrumental in doing that, and they influenced others (Clapton, Harrison etc.) immensely.

I always thought The Band's Music From Big Pink which was inspired by the basement tapes led the roots movement in rock.

Something Special in the Air

Blind Faith`s "Presence of The Lord" too is indeed part of what I`m hinting at.

Lock up the streets and houses!

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noughties
Blind Faith`s "Presence of The Lord" too is indeed part of what I`m hinting at.

Written after Clapton toured with Delaney And Bonnie?

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noughties
In 1969 the psychedelia was already sort of history. The Lady Madonna single in 1968 by The Beatles marked that the whole music industry (sic) was going in a roots direction.

However, a gospel influence seemed to happen simultaniously for both The Stones with their "You Can`t Always Get What You Want", for The Beatles with their "Let It Be", and last but not least for Simon & Garfunkel with their "Bridge Over Troubled Water". "Jesus Christ Superstar" and the whole Jesus movement were only a couple of years away. There were Ten Sing groups and "Young Vision" up until the early 80s...

You can't always get what you want was in response to the Beatles hey Jude. I saw Jagger himself say that.

Even as a big Beatles listener and supporter, I would have to disagree with the OP's comment that it was the Lady Madonna single that heralded such a sweeping change in the direction of rock music -- it was, after all, just lightweight fare, olde-tyme music hall, nothing groundbreaking, just a little piano ditty, the B-side of which was George Harrison's psychedelic, sitar-drenched The Inner Light.

I'd even have to disagree with another poster who opined that it was The Band's debut Music From Big Pink leading the way, though one is tempted to say so, mainly because that album was released on July 1 and the Rolling Stones had already released Jumpin' Jack Flash as a single over a month before. Also ahead of the Band was the Who with their single Magic Bus from May, which was actually an outtake from the sessions for their debut album My Generation from 1965.

Perhaps Eric Burdon says it best in an interview from that time, done specifically for Tony Palmer's 1968 documentary film All My Loving, where he talks about the effects of LSD and the music musicians made as a result, and how as of 1968 the acid craze among musicians was subsiding, so that the psychedelic inner searching was giving way to a more basic, grittier approach from before the acid days.

Here's that interview clip if anyone's interested, which is only 2 minutes: [www.youtube.com]

I seem to have missed this sweeping change altogether. I like Lady Madonna, but I don't see that it altered the course of rock music in any way whatsoever. I also don't think that any aspects of music (rock or otherwise) disappear, they just get added to, mutate, go through waves of popularity, etc. Same with literature.

In 1969, both "Oh, Happy Day" and "Spirit in the Sky" were released and became big hits. There seemed to be a bit of spirituality, gospel in the air.

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DaveG
In 1969, both "Oh, Happy Day" and "Spirit in the Sky" were released and became big hits. There seemed to be a bit of spirituality, gospel in the air.

Good point. However, I think it was Ian McDonald in his book "Revolution In The Head" that wrote that "Lady Madonna" was such a key point in music history (my choice of words).

Gospel influence on these singer-songwriters

[www.youtube.com]

[www.youtube.com]

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noughties

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DaveG
In 1969, both "Oh, Happy Day" and "Spirit in the Sky" were released and became big hits. There seemed to be a bit of spirituality, gospel in the air.

Good point. However, I think it was Ian McDonald in his book "Revolution In The Head" that wrote that "Lady Madonna" was such a key point in music history (my choice of words).

I haven't read the book, so what is his argument? It's not like gospel music suddenly appeared on the scene with Lady Madonna (and it's frankly a stretch even to call it that with relation to that song). An honest question, I'm genuinely not getting this. If the whole music industry went in a "roots" direction, which it didn't, why single out gospel music specifically? The argument seems to me like cherry-picking a few songs and claiming that they represent some kind of sea change in music, when they are just some songs among many other genres, and had been preceded by other gospel-inflected rock songs. So what is McDonald's theory?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-11-16 10:09 by Aquamarine.

Some went to see Maharishi Yogi, others incorporated gospel music. I blame Yoko Ono.

-And wasn`t there a song called "My Sweet Lord" by a certain George Harrison? For 12 year olds at the time, Lady Madonna could certainly come across as a big thing. "Light weight" was not in our vocabolary. I don`t have McDonald`s book at hand at the moment, but this song surely marked the end of psychedelia, at least for The Beatles, without stretching the argument too far.

Though I believe there was a kind of spirituality in the air (in the late '69's - mid '70's, there was a "Jesus Movement" happening in the US, and music often reflects the culture), I can't see Lady Madonna as even remotely gospel or spiritual. It's about a supermom, and women in general. And it certainly did not really change much in music. It was a cool song, nothing more.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-11-16 17:08 by DaveG.

And let's not forget that there are certain musical characteristica within the different styles of music, like in gospel. It's not merely gospel in name, it's gotta sound like it, too. IMO, Lady Madonna sounds nothing like gospel. The ending of Salt Of The Earth and YCAGWYW, as well as the choruses on Shine A Light (all written within one year), however, does.

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DandelionPowderman
IMO, Lady Madonna sounds nothing like gospel. The ending of Salt Of The Earth and YCAGWYW, as well as the choruses on Shine A Light (all written within one year), however, does.

Lady Madonna is more of a Fats Domino homage. Fats himself even covered it that same year

[www.youtube.com]

Yeah, Lady Madonna wasn`t gospel. The thing in the air and the gospel thing happened in 1969 and onwards.

Musically, Salt Of The Earth is as gospel as it gets. It's from 1968.

Well, my big issue is that there was a certain disillusion and exhaustion at the end of the 60s. James Taylor`s "Sweet Baby James" reflected this, in fact summed all this up. When the drug thing and political fight didn`t work out, some people turned to Jesus.

I think the musical reasons for revisiting the roots were just as important as Jesus.

Besides, noughties, I read somewhere that "roots rock"/ "roots music" was a term that first came into use many years later, maybe during the '80s, and in one version of the term possibly originally in 1976 (?), even if some those, who use that term, refer to the late 60s as one earlier display of the phenomenen. However, there is a taste of backward movement over the term, that in my opinion does not suit that time period. Somehow, I often feel that that 'roots rock' has got built in a musically reactionary impulse, where that characteristic does not apply for the musical forms that developed from the late '60s. Then we don't even mention both blues and soul, probably because those genres never went away.

Apart from all that, and in accordance, I think, with Dandelion's first post, I am rather surprised that you single out gospel music as seemingly the only ethnic music genre as belonging to your perspective about this "roots rock", paradoxially being in the air. Why don't you include country and/or country rock? And what about "folk music"/ folk rock, with or without a country flavour? By the way, the Jesus Christ Superstar seem to me rather distant from a term signifying roots music/ roots rock.

Well, it seems that I unwillingly has stired up some musical contradictions. I didn`t try to make a difficult post. I think I`ve only been skimming the surface, using catch phrases from journalists, and lightly so. Doing this might give a quite bombastic view on music history with a bitter twist. Was this how it was? Well, blame it on sensation makers! In this view, the song Honky Tonk Women becomes roots music; simple as that.

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DandelionPowderman
Musically, Salt Of The Earth is as gospel as it gets. It's from 1968.

John Wesley Harding seems to have influenced that.