[Twitter.com] - Plaque at Dartford Railway Station (unveiled 5-Feb-2015)


55 years ago: Mick Jagger and Keith Richards met again at Dartford Railway Station

On the morning of Tuesday, 17 October 1961, Mick Jagger (18 years old), arrived on platform 2 of Dartford Station to travel to the London School of Economics where he was studying.

Shortly afterwards, 17-year-old Keith Richards arrived on the same platform. He was on his way to the Sidcup Art College.

The two teenagers recognized each other again as they were childhood friends and classmates at the Wentworth Primary School in Dartford.

Two records, Rockin' At The Hops by Chuck Berry and The Best of Muddy Waters, revealed a common interest that prompted their musical partnership which led to the formation of the Rollin' Stones in July 1962 ....


(Taken from: [www.iorr.org] , [www.iorr.org] , [www.bbc.com] , [en.wikipedia.org] .)


'The Beginning' - Interview from 1989, originally part of the Documentary '25X5' :



[www.YouTube.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2016-10-19 22:55 by Irix.

55 Years ... such a wonderful meet up ..Thanks Mick ..Thanks Keith ...



ROCKMAN

Heck of an anniversary.

The event definitely deserves a plaque. About that I'm clear.

But, the nicely named Mr Kite who is boss of Dartford Council agreed on air with Bill that the wording was unfortunate and that he would correct it. (He also agreed to it in an email to me).

I even put him on to someone who was offering to pay for the work (as long as he got the 'old' plaque.)

So he agreed to do it, and it would cost the ratepayers nothing.

Does anyone know if the plaque was replaced.

--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan

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CaptainCorella

Does anyone know if the plaque was replaced.

No other picture to be found at the moment than the above (Google Image-search, 'dartford plaque' , Time: 2016).

The plaque at Dartford Station should be replaced due to the misleading sentence: "Mick and Keith went on to form The Rolling Stones".

Bill Wyman had complained and said:

"Brian Jones wanted to form a blues band and he enlisted each member one by one.
He gave the name The Rolling Stones, he chose the music and he was the leader.
Accuracy in history is really, really important and we want it to be right."

"We will create a new plaque which makes it clear that this is where Mick met Keith and went on to be part of The Rolling Stones."

[www.bbc.com] , [iorr.org] .

I'm in agreement with the statement above. Just to be clear this doesn't mean I am trying to diminish the legacy of Mick and Keith. Who I hold in high esteem

Imagination how it might have looked in 1961:


[Twitter.com]


[IORR.org]

Lrix, cool pictures. Would be both funny and interesting if they returned to the same spot today with the records and guitar.

By the way just thinking a little off topic, but tomorrow is Chuck Berry's 90th Birthday. Two historical happenings back to back.

That's really a historic date for rock and roll. What an amazing ride it was. And still is.

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frankotero
Lrix, cool pictures.

Of course, completely fake...

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Koen

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frankotero
Lrix, cool pictures.

Of course, completely fake...

completely

I just noticed that the wording on the plaque is doubly misleading. Most people reading it would assume, wrongly, that Mick and Keith met for the first time at that spot, on the date given. I remember an interview with Mick where he says he doesn't remember ever not knowing Keith.

I realize that getting everything right would require a lot of text on a smallish plaque, but if you're going to do something for the sake of history you should get the facts straight.

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blivet

Most people reading it would assume, wrongly, that Mick and Keith met for the first time at that spot, on the date given.

Even the BBC read it wrong twice: "Sir Mick Jagger and Keith Richards had their first proper meeting at a Kent train station ..." -- [www.bbc.com] , [www.bbc.com] .

Discussed here: [www.iorr.org] .

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frankotero
By the way just thinking a little off topic, but tomorrow is Chuck Berry's 90th Birthday. Two historical happenings back to back.

It'd be great if they play a Chuck Berry cover in Vegas.

Yes, a Chuck Berry song played in Vegas would be a perfect idea. How about Johnny B. Goode. That would be too cool.

Just to chuck a hand grenade of historical revisionism into the proceedings!

Keiths letter to his Auntie Pat from 1962 as reprinted in "Life":

6 Spielman Rd
Dartford
Kent
Dear Pat,
So sorry not to have written before (I plead insane) in bluebottle voice. Exit right amid deafening applause.
I do hope you’re very well.
We have survived yet another glorious English Winter. I wonder which day Summer falls on this year?
Oh but my dear I have been soooo busy since Christmas beside working at school. You know I was keen on Chuck Berry and
I thought I was the only fan for miles but one mornin’ on Dartford Stn. (that’s so I don’t have to write a long word like station) I was holding one of Chuck’s records when a guy I knew at primary school 7-11 yrs y’know came up to me.
He’s got every record Chuck Berry ever made and all his mates have too, they are all rhythm and blues fans, real R&B I mean (not this Dinah Shore, Brook Benton crap) Jimmy Reed, Muddy Waters, Chuck, Howlin’ Wolf, John Lee Hooker all the Chicago bluesmen real lowdown stuff, marvelous. Bo Diddley he’s another great.
Anyways the guy on the station, he is called Mick Jagger and all the chicks and the boys meet every Saturday morning in the ‘Carousel’ some juke-joint well one morning in Jan I was walking past and decided to look him up. Everybody’s all over me I get invited to about 10 parties. Beside that Mick is the greatest R&B singer this side of the Atlantic and I don’t mean maybe. I play guitar (electric) Chuck style we got us a bass player and drummer and rhythm-guitar and we practice 2 or 3 nights a week.
SWINGIN.’
Of course they’re all rolling in money and in massive detached houses, crazy, one’s even got a butler. I went round there with Mick (in the car of course Mick’s not mine of course)
OH BOY ENGLISH IS IMPOSSIBLE.
“Can I get you anything, sir?”
“Vodka and lime, please”
“Certainly, sir”
I really felt like a lord, nearly asked for my coronet when I left.
Everything here is just fine.
I just can’t lay off Chuck Berry though, I recently got an LP of his straight from Chess Records Chicago cost me less than an English record.
Of course we’ve still got the old Lags here y’know Cliff Richard, Adam Faith and 2 new shockers Shane Fenton and John Leyton SUCH CRAP YOU HAVE NEVER HEARD.
Except for that greaseball Sinatra ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
Still I don’t get bored anymore. This Saturday I am going to an all night party.
“I looked at my watch
It was four-o-five
Man I didn’t know
If I was dead or alive”
Quote Chuck Berry
Reeling and a Rocking
12 galls of Beer Barrel of Cyder, 3 bottle Whiskey Wine. Her ma and pa gone away for the weekend I’ll twist myself till I drop
(I’m glad to say).
The Saturday after Mick and I are taking 2 girls over to our favourite Rhythm & Blues club over in Ealing, Middlesex.
They got a guy on electric harmonica Cyril Davies fabulous always half drunk unshaven plays like a mad man, marvelous.
Well then I can’t think of anything else to bore you with, so I’ll sign off goodnight viewers
BIG GRIN
Luff
Keith xxxxx
Who else would write such bloody crap


NME, May 8, 1964


KRLA Beat, June 16, 1965



"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"

Sorry to be maybe too political, but I just realized that on the very same day, October 17th 1961, very sad events happened in Paris leading to unfinished controversies until today. Dartford meeting brings more good vibes until today !

Two completely different stories for two sides of the Channel.

Long lives to the Glimmer Twins !

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djgab

Sorry to be maybe too political (...)

No politics allowed here, sorry.

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djgab

Long lives to the Glimmer Twins !

And Charlie & Ronnie as well -- long live The Rolling Stones ....

From [ultimateclassicrock.com] :


55 Years Ago: Mick Jagger and Keith Richards Meet Again
By Bryan Wawzenek October 17, 2016 8:30 AM


Mick Jagger and Keith Richards have known each other since they were little kids.

Before they fell in love with the blues, before they started writing songs, before they formed one of the most famous bands in the world, Jagger and Richards rode tricycles together. “I can’t remember when I didn’t know him,” Mick told Rolling Stone in 1995. “We lived one street away; his mother knew my mother and we were at primary school together from 7 to 11. We used to play together, and we weren’t the closest friends, but we were friends.”

The future rock stars grew up in the town of Dartford, on the eastern edge of greater London. When the Richards family moved to a different neighborhood, Jagger and Richards went to separate schools and saw less of one another. They separately developed a love of rock ’n’ roll in their teenage years, with Jagger even forming a band. “I used to play Saturday night shows with all these different little groups,” he said. “If I could get a show, I would do it. I used to do mad things – you know, I used to go and do these shows and go on my knees and roll on the ground – when I was 15, 16 years old.”

Richards was aware of Jagger’s performances at the time, although the two ran in separate circles, with the studious Jagger attending the London School of Economics and the lackadaisical Richards going to Sidcup Art School, where he began playing guitar. Their paths would cross again on the morning of Oct. 17, 1961, on platform two of Dartford Train Station.

Jagger, then 18, and Richards, 17, were both going to school. “In a town like Dartford, if anybody’s headed for London or any stop in between, then in Dartford Station, you’re bound to meet,” Richards recalled. “The thing about Mick and my meeting was that he was carrying two albums with him – Rockin’ at the Hops by Chuck Berry, and The Best of Muddy Waters. I had only heard about Muddy up to that point.”

Jagger was holding records, Richards was carrying his guitar and the two struck up a conversation about rock and blues on the train. On the way, Richards learned that Jagger had ordered the two albums directly from Chicago’s Chess Records, as they were unavailable in England. Excited by their talk, and wanting to hear the LPs, Richards invited Jagger over for tea that afternoon. Following the listening session, the budding singer invited the amateur guitarist to join his band, Little Boy Blue and the Blue Boys, which played songs by Eddie Cochrane, Buddy Holly and Chuck Berry.

The following year, Jagger and Richards would find a kindred spirit in Brian Jones and the three would form a new band, named for one of the songs on the two records that Jagger was carrying at the train station. With Muddy Waters’s “Rollin’ Stone” for inspiration, the new group became the Rolling Stones.

In February 2015, a plaque was unveiled marking the spot at Dartford Station where Richards and Jagger had their fateful meeting. “I hope that in the years ahead many thousands of rail passengers will enjoy looking at the plaque and realizing what a huge part the station played in bringing the Rolling Stones together,” said Dartford Borough Council Leader Jeremy Kite to mark the occasion. -- [ultimateclassicrock.com]

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CaptainCorella


Does anyone know if the plaque was replaced.

I was at Dartford Station last week and the wording on the plaque remains exactly the same as the day it was first unveiled.

What was factually incorrect in the wording on the original plaque?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-10-17 23:55 by schillid.

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DartfordRenegade

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CaptainCorella


Does anyone know if the plaque was replaced.

I was at Dartford Station last week and the wording on the plaque remains exactly the same as the day it was first unveiled.

Oh dear.

Looks like I'll have to renew my correspondence with Mr Kite and tell others that his word is NOT his bond.

Sigh.

--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan

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CaptainCorella

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DartfordRenegade

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CaptainCorella


Does anyone know if the plaque was replaced.

I was at Dartford Station last week and the wording on the plaque remains exactly the same as the day it was first unveiled.

Oh dear.

Looks like I'll have to renew my correspondence with Mr Kite and tell others that his word is NOT his bond.

Sigh.

He might be a bit busy at the moment what with the locals up in arms over the ongoing traffic gridlock caused by the new system at the Dartford Crossing, the upcoming Fireworks display in Central Park on 5th Nov and Remembrance Sunday on 13th November.

However he is responsive on social media to local residents concerns and he has met Mick when he came to Dartford for the MJC anniversary. So worth giving him a nudge Captain Corella.

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schillid

What was factually incorrect in the wording on the original plaque?

"Mick and Keith went on to form The Rolling Stones": [iorr.org] .

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schillid
What was factually incorrect in the wording on the original plaque?

Brian Jones "formed" the Rolling Stones. He literally put the band together. The plaque says Mick and Keith did it.

Mick and Keith already knew each other fairly well the day they ran into each other while waiting for a train. The plaque at least implies this occasion was when they first met.

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DartfordRenegade

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CaptainCorella

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DartfordRenegade

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CaptainCorella


Does anyone know if the plaque was replaced.

I was at Dartford Station last week and the wording on the plaque remains exactly the same as the day it was first unveiled.

Oh dear.

Looks like I'll have to renew my correspondence with Mr Kite and tell others that his word is NOT his bond.

Sigh.

He might be a bit busy at the moment what with the locals up in arms over the ongoing traffic gridlock caused by the new system at the Dartford Crossing, the upcoming Fireworks display in Central Park on 5th Nov and Remembrance Sunday on 13th November.

However he is responsive on social media to local residents concerns and he has met Mick when he came to Dartford for the MJC anniversary. So worth giving him a nudge Captain Corella.

He has had a year to organise sorting it out.

Interesting that he's (Mr Kite) has met Mick. If you recall Jagger was publicly angry at Bill questioning the wording and did not, it seems, take the point that Brian FORMED The Rolling Stones. (None of which takes away The Glimmer Twins making it eventually such a success and so Great.)

--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan

Quote
CaptainCorella
Jagger was publicly angry at Bill questioning the wording and did not, it seems, take the point that Brian FORMED The Rolling Stones.

According to the clipping Deltics posted above, it seems that even way back when Brian was still alive, Jagger considered his reunion with Keith at the train station to have been the seminal moment for the band.

Of course it was crucial, and of course when Brian recruited Mick, Mick insisted that Keith join too, but it's still a fact that Brian was the one doing the recruiting.

It's their EMERALD anniversary!

FFS. There was no Rollin' Stone when Brian was recruiting. Mick and Keith were charter members. The only word that could be added is to "help" form the group, as they were two of five original members. Certainly Bill Wyman wasn't one.

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CaptainCorella

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DartfordRenegade

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CaptainCorella

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DartfordRenegade

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CaptainCorella


Does anyone know if the plaque was replaced.

I was at Dartford Station last week and the wording on the plaque remains exactly the same as the day it was first unveiled.

Oh dear.

Looks like I'll have to renew my correspondence with Mr Kite and tell others that his word is NOT his bond.

Sigh.

He might be a bit busy at the moment what with the locals up in arms over the ongoing traffic gridlock caused by the new system at the Dartford Crossing, the upcoming Fireworks display in Central Park on 5th Nov and Remembrance Sunday on 13th November.

However he is responsive on social media to local residents concerns and he has met Mick when he came to Dartford for the MJC anniversary. So worth giving him a nudge Captain Corella.

He has had a year to organise sorting it out.

Interesting that he's (Mr Kite) has met Mick. If you recall Jagger was publicly angry at Bill questioning the wording and did not, it seems, take the point that Brian FORMED The Rolling Stones. (None of which takes away The Glimmer Twins making it eventually such a success and so Great.)

Yes but the traffic gridlock has been ongoing for over a year. A petition with over 17k signatures was submitted to Parliament demanding it is resolved. So Mr Kite Leader of Dartford Borough Council is more focused on that matter now rather than this plaque.

It's all a matter of each individual Stones own perspective of how things happened. According to Keith, Bill wasn't even there when the Stones were formed and it was Ian Stewart who did all the recruiting.

Maybe the plaque should say they went on to form Dartfords Little Boy Blue & the Blue Boys. Then wrote a load of great songs which turned an unknown London based blues band called the Rolling Stones into the world's greatest rock'n'roll band.