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Bob Dylan was a U.S. artist at that point, and the U.S. equivalent to that was the Brill Building in New York.
Tin Pan Alley era, which catered to pop music of the time, was in the UK. The Beatles were number 1 in 1963 before Dylan.
TPA didn't cater to folk, only to pop. But the Beatles changed that.
Recall that in the UK, there was also a songwriter named Tom Springfield (of The Springfields, Tom being Dusty's older brother). That didn't change anything either. Tom Springfield was born in 1934, and wrote such folk hits for The Seekers as I'll Never Find Another You. That didn't change Tin Pan Alley. Because it wasn't pop. The Beatles changed that. So, Lennon/McCartney deserve their due, and the Nobel folks will never rewrite history.
If anyone has any doubts about this, here's what Neil Diamond had to say about the impact of the Beatles at that time:
"Diamond never encountered the Beatles personally. But he did witness their impact on Tin Pan Alley.
'I remember I was still in the Brill Building when they arrived in the US. All the staff writers gathered around and listened to this new group from England that was all the rave and all the talk.
'I thought: “OK, they’re pretty good.” We thought maybe it was just like a teenage sensation because the kids were going crazy over the Beatles. But they did change the way the music business was done in the United States, no question about it.’
The shock waves of the Fab Four’s invasion of the US, he says, were profound. 'First of all, the writing of Lennon and McCartney signalled the emancipation of the songwriter, who had always been the low man on the totem pole. Paid the least. Least respected. Least recognised. But suddenly the songwriter was on a par with the big stars – these guys could not only write but they could sing as well.’
So began the end of the Tin Pan Alley era. 'People realised it wasn’t necessary to have somebody own your copyright to your songs and bring them around to try to get other people to record them,’ says Diamond, who has hung on to the copyright of all his songs since."
Full article: [www.telegraph.co.uk]
***
I'm just a Bad Boy Boogie
Dylan's folk crossed over, and his poetry was way more profound the «she loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah.
His impact lyric-wise was stronger, even though he didn't reach the masses instantly.
Just my theory of why they decided on Dylan this year.
The quality of his songs is besides the point. I like his work. But it's not literature. I like Keith Richards, but should he get a Nobel prize for chemistry?
It's a disqualification of what literature supposed to be, and typical of the nowadays fashionable disrespect for anything "elitist" and "high-brow". The message seems to be: books are for snobs, so let's give the prize to a song writer.
Lovely, Aquamarine! Can I quote you on this for a Dylan-piece I'm writing for my newspaper? No names, of course. Just the professional view of a literature professor.
Okay, fair enough. I would think the test for that would be: are the lyrics (or poems, if you wish) of Bob Dylan just as strong without hearing the music? Can they stand alone? Are they independent of the melody and harmony and the music? I'd say they are not, and any good song lyrics shouldn't be. Good song-lyrics should follow the musical climaxes (e.g. Chuck Berry's "looking like a model on a cover of a magazine" following the guitar cadence, or Bob Dylan's Subterranean Homesick blues, with "look out kid" just at the moment of the chord change) and, hence, is not a standalone text.
[Twitter.com]
Even George sent a message from the sky ....
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2016-10-14 12:55 by Irix.
Can you give an example of that?
The Stones covered 'Like A Rolling Stone' ....
I meant, an example of Nobel prizes of literature going to halfway decent books.
Nobody argues the huge influence of Bob Dylan.
I'm listening Desolation Row now. He reversed it. The music is the backdrop, and the words are the main thing. It's brilliant. It's definitely literature and poetry of a breathtaking standard, imo.
to pay respect to him, they should change the running order of the show (or at least perform half of their show on their bended knees)
Or simply do Like A Rolling Stones (which is about all they can do, anyway)
I'd cite Visions of Johanna as just one example that they do stand alone.
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: OT: Bob Dylan wins Nobel Prize in literature
Posted by:
HankM
()
Date: October 14, 2016 06:49
Can not believe that Dylan went electric, it is shocking.
Re: OT: Bob Dylan wins Nobel Prize in literature
Posted by:
stone66
()
Date: October 14, 2016 07:42
Ah, no.Quote
Silver Dagger
The man who shaped modern music and dragged it kicking and screaming away from Tin Pan Alley and into the streets. Everyone including the Stones, The Beatles, The Who and Springsteen owe him for that.
Bob Dylan was a U.S. artist at that point, and the U.S. equivalent to that was the Brill Building in New York.
Tin Pan Alley era, which catered to pop music of the time, was in the UK. The Beatles were number 1 in 1963 before Dylan.
TPA didn't cater to folk, only to pop. But the Beatles changed that.
Recall that in the UK, there was also a songwriter named Tom Springfield (of The Springfields, Tom being Dusty's older brother). That didn't change anything either. Tom Springfield was born in 1934, and wrote such folk hits for The Seekers as I'll Never Find Another You. That didn't change Tin Pan Alley. Because it wasn't pop. The Beatles changed that. So, Lennon/McCartney deserve their due, and the Nobel folks will never rewrite history.
If anyone has any doubts about this, here's what Neil Diamond had to say about the impact of the Beatles at that time:
"Diamond never encountered the Beatles personally. But he did witness their impact on Tin Pan Alley.
'I remember I was still in the Brill Building when they arrived in the US. All the staff writers gathered around and listened to this new group from England that was all the rave and all the talk.
'I thought: “OK, they’re pretty good.” We thought maybe it was just like a teenage sensation because the kids were going crazy over the Beatles. But they did change the way the music business was done in the United States, no question about it.’
The shock waves of the Fab Four’s invasion of the US, he says, were profound. 'First of all, the writing of Lennon and McCartney signalled the emancipation of the songwriter, who had always been the low man on the totem pole. Paid the least. Least respected. Least recognised. But suddenly the songwriter was on a par with the big stars – these guys could not only write but they could sing as well.’
So began the end of the Tin Pan Alley era. 'People realised it wasn’t necessary to have somebody own your copyright to your songs and bring them around to try to get other people to record them,’ says Diamond, who has hung on to the copyright of all his songs since."
Full article: [www.telegraph.co.uk]
Re: OT: Bob Dylan wins Nobel Prize in literature
Posted by:
powerage78
()
Date: October 14, 2016 10:07
***
I'm just a Bad Boy Boogie
Re: OT: Bob Dylan wins Nobel Prize in literature
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 14, 2016 10:13
Quote
stone66Ah, no.Quote
Silver Dagger
The man who shaped modern music and dragged it kicking and screaming away from Tin Pan Alley and into the streets. Everyone including the Stones, The Beatles, The Who and Springsteen owe him for that.
Bob Dylan was a U.S. artist at that point, and the U.S. equivalent to that was the Brill Building in New York.
Tin Pan Alley era, which catered to pop music of the time, was in the UK. The Beatles were number 1 in 1963 before Dylan.
TPA didn't cater to folk, only to pop. But the Beatles changed that.
Recall that in the UK, there was also a songwriter named Tom Springfield (of The Springfields, Tom being Dusty's older brother). That didn't change anything either. Tom Springfield was born in 1934, and wrote such folk hits for The Seekers as I'll Never Find Another You. That didn't change Tin Pan Alley. Because it wasn't pop. The Beatles changed that. So, Lennon/McCartney deserve their due, and the Nobel folks will never rewrite history.
If anyone has any doubts about this, here's what Neil Diamond had to say about the impact of the Beatles at that time:
"Diamond never encountered the Beatles personally. But he did witness their impact on Tin Pan Alley.
'I remember I was still in the Brill Building when they arrived in the US. All the staff writers gathered around and listened to this new group from England that was all the rave and all the talk.
'I thought: “OK, they’re pretty good.” We thought maybe it was just like a teenage sensation because the kids were going crazy over the Beatles. But they did change the way the music business was done in the United States, no question about it.’
The shock waves of the Fab Four’s invasion of the US, he says, were profound. 'First of all, the writing of Lennon and McCartney signalled the emancipation of the songwriter, who had always been the low man on the totem pole. Paid the least. Least respected. Least recognised. But suddenly the songwriter was on a par with the big stars – these guys could not only write but they could sing as well.’
So began the end of the Tin Pan Alley era. 'People realised it wasn’t necessary to have somebody own your copyright to your songs and bring them around to try to get other people to record them,’ says Diamond, who has hung on to the copyright of all his songs since."
Full article: [www.telegraph.co.uk]
Dylan's folk crossed over, and his poetry was way more profound the «she loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah.
His impact lyric-wise was stronger, even though he didn't reach the masses instantly.
Re: OT: Bob Dylan wins Nobel Prize in literature
Posted by:
Redhotcarpet
()
Date: October 14, 2016 10:50
Quote
Koen
And here we go again...
Is it so difficult to leave politics out of this discussion?
Just my theory of why they decided on Dylan this year.
Re: OT: Bob Dylan wins Nobel Prize in literature
Posted by:
matxil
()
Date: October 14, 2016 11:07
Quote
MrEcho
The songs he's written during the "Never-ending Tour" years (1988–today) are much better than his work from the 1960s/1970s. But everybody is entitled to an opinion, of course. The opinion that his early work is superior to his later work is an out of date cliché, though, that no longer holds.
The quality of his songs is besides the point. I like his work. But it's not literature. I like Keith Richards, but should he get a Nobel prize for chemistry?
It's a disqualification of what literature supposed to be, and typical of the nowadays fashionable disrespect for anything "elitist" and "high-brow". The message seems to be: books are for snobs, so let's give the prize to a song writer.
Re: OT: Bob Dylan wins Nobel Prize in literature
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 14, 2016 11:12
Quote
AquamarineQuote
matxil
I think Bob Dylan is a fantastic song-lyric-writer. So is Chuck Berry. And Tom Waits. And Nick Cave. But it's not literature. It's song lyrics.
I disagree. I'm a literature professor, for decades, and I would say Dylan is the only musician of his generation whose lyrics stand alone as poetry (and that isn't dissing song lyrics, but acknowledging that, as you suggest, they're a different genre). It's true that the work of a few other songwriters crosses over into poetry, such as Leonard Cohen--but none of them match either the consistency of his poetic power or his incredibly far-reaching influence, on generations of writers (not just song writers). So this is a very well-deserved honor, going to a man who isn't bound by genre or indeed by anything else. And whose very best words aren't matched by anybody else, any time, anywhere.
Edited for typos
Lovely, Aquamarine! Can I quote you on this for a Dylan-piece I'm writing for my newspaper? No names, of course. Just the professional view of a literature professor.
Re: OT: Bob Dylan wins Nobel Prize in literature
Posted by:
matxil
()
Date: October 14, 2016 11:13
Quote
AquamarineQuote
matxil
I think Bob Dylan is a fantastic song-lyric-writer. So is Chuck Berry. And Tom Waits. And Nick Cave. But it's not literature. It's song lyrics.
I disagree. I'm a literature professor, for decades, and I would say Dylan is the only musician of his generation whose lyrics stand alone as poetry (and that isn't dissing song lyrics, but acknowledging that, as you suggest, they're a different genre). It's true that the work of a few other songwriters crosses over into poetry, such as Leonard Cohen--but none of them match either the consistency of his poetic power or his incredibly far-reaching influence, on generations of writers (not just song writers). So this is a very well-deserved honor, going to a man who isn't bound by genre or indeed by anything else. And whose very best words aren't matched by anybody else, any time, anywhere.
Edited for typos
Okay, fair enough. I would think the test for that would be: are the lyrics (or poems, if you wish) of Bob Dylan just as strong without hearing the music? Can they stand alone? Are they independent of the melody and harmony and the music? I'd say they are not, and any good song lyrics shouldn't be. Good song-lyrics should follow the musical climaxes (e.g. Chuck Berry's "looking like a model on a cover of a magazine" following the guitar cadence, or Bob Dylan's Subterranean Homesick blues, with "look out kid" just at the moment of the chord change) and, hence, is not a standalone text.
Re: OT: Bob Dylan wins Nobel Prize in literature
Posted by:
Irix
()
Date: October 14, 2016 11:25
[Twitter.com]
Even George sent a message from the sky ....
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2016-10-14 12:55 by Irix.
Re: OT: Bob Dylan wins Nobel Prize in literature
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 14, 2016 11:41
I wrote a piece on Dylan in the newpaper today.
I don't have time to translate it, unfortunately, but I wanna thank Silver Dagger, Stone66, Redhotcarpet and Aquamarine for inspiration.
Maybe Google Translate can do the trick? Here's the link anyway:
[www.dagensperspektiv.no]
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2016-10-14 12:05 by DandelionPowderman.
I don't have time to translate it, unfortunately, but I wanna thank Silver Dagger, Stone66, Redhotcarpet and Aquamarine for inspiration.
Maybe Google Translate can do the trick? Here's the link anyway:
[www.dagensperspektiv.no]
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2016-10-14 12:05 by DandelionPowderman.
Re: OT: Bob Dylan wins Nobel Prize in literature
Posted by:
hopkins
()
Date: October 14, 2016 11:52
George and Bob together at Benga Desh benefit concert is just so amazingly beautiful and downhome brilliant. Thanks for the neat reminder.
There's a lot of stuff in the news about this of course, but I stumbled across this ranking with short critical 1 paragraph analysis of the 37 studio releases up to 2014.
I guess you could make a shorter list for the live offerings but this is studio.
It's not gospel; people will disagree and should of course, but I found it a helpful general resource, short and crisp each one, and a nice trip back through an amazing half century of material.
And most of the ranking, especially as he counts down his top ten, seems more than accurate and fair to me for a short overview of each, mileage will vary.
"Ranking Every Bob Dylan Album From Worst To Best"
I enjoyed this so much. And the comments and fights afterwards are fun too.
Oh and Good on you Bob Dylan. (I'm sure he pores through his stones sites regularly)
[consequenceofsound.net]
“I’m just as good a singer as Caruso. You have to listen closely. But I hit all those notes..."
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-10-14 12:05 by hopkins.
There's a lot of stuff in the news about this of course, but I stumbled across this ranking with short critical 1 paragraph analysis of the 37 studio releases up to 2014.
I guess you could make a shorter list for the live offerings but this is studio.
It's not gospel; people will disagree and should of course, but I found it a helpful general resource, short and crisp each one, and a nice trip back through an amazing half century of material.
And most of the ranking, especially as he counts down his top ten, seems more than accurate and fair to me for a short overview of each, mileage will vary.
"Ranking Every Bob Dylan Album From Worst To Best"
I enjoyed this so much. And the comments and fights afterwards are fun too.
Oh and Good on you Bob Dylan. (I'm sure he pores through his stones sites regularly)
[consequenceofsound.net]
“I’m just as good a singer as Caruso. You have to listen closely. But I hit all those notes..."
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-10-14 12:05 by hopkins.
Re: OT: Bob Dylan wins Nobel Prize in literature
Posted by:
emotionalbarbecue
()
Date: October 14, 2016 12:04
There is no sense/sanity/good sense without the concept of limit/perimeter.
Dylan may be/is an extraordinary songwriter but we are talking about literature.
Dylan may be/is an extraordinary songwriter but we are talking about literature.
Re: OT: Bob Dylan wins Nobel Prize in literature
Posted by:
HankM
()
Date: October 14, 2016 12:10
The Nobel prize comes with a nice chunk of money too paid in Swedish kronor (SEK). The Nobel Prize amount for 2016 is set at Swedish kronor (SEK) 8.0 million per full Nobel Prize. Unless I looked/input/found/calculated incorrectly, it is almost 1 Million Dollars this year ($900,000). Not a small amount of cash. Sweet!!
Re: OT: Bob Dylan wins Nobel Prize in literature
Posted by:
dcba
()
Date: October 14, 2016 12:17
"Who Will Win the 2016 Nobel Prize in Literature?
Not Bob Dylan, that's for sure"
[newrepublic.com]
And regarding the "does he deserve it or not?" I shall add that last year's recipient Svetlana Alexeievitch didn't deserve it all (in my eyes).
SA is an excellent journalist but a great writer worthy of a Novel? Nah!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-10-14 12:22 by dcba.
Not Bob Dylan, that's for sure"
[newrepublic.com]
And regarding the "does he deserve it or not?" I shall add that last year's recipient Svetlana Alexeievitch didn't deserve it all (in my eyes).
SA is an excellent journalist but a great writer worthy of a Novel? Nah!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-10-14 12:22 by dcba.
Re: OT: Bob Dylan wins Nobel Prize in literature
Posted by:
matxil
()
Date: October 14, 2016 12:43
Quote
emotionalbarbecue
There is no sense/sanity/good sense without the concept of limit/perimeter.
Dylan may be/is an extraordinary songwriter but we are talking about literature.
Re: OT: Bob Dylan wins Nobel Prize in literature
Posted by:
Spud
()
Date: October 14, 2016 12:50
Nobel literature prizes have often been awarded on the basis of the odd half way decent book that happened to find favour with the cognoscenti
....so I don't see a problem with Bob getting one for his extensive & inarguably influential output.
....so I don't see a problem with Bob getting one for his extensive & inarguably influential output.
Re: OT: Bob Dylan wins Nobel Prize in literature
Posted by:
marcovandereijk
()
Date: October 14, 2016 13:10
Don't want to wake up any political discussions, but I thought that this picture, all
over the internet, is quite funny:
Just as long as the guitar plays, let it steal your heart away
over the internet, is quite funny:
Just as long as the guitar plays, let it steal your heart away
Re: OT: Bob Dylan wins Nobel Prize in literature
Posted by:
matxil
()
Date: October 14, 2016 13:26
Quote
Spud
Nobel literature prizes have often been awarded on the basis of the odd half way decent book that happened to find favour with the cognoscenti
....so I don't see a problem with Bob getting one for his extensive & inarguably influential output.
Can you give an example of that?
Re: OT: Bob Dylan wins Nobel Prize in literature
Posted by:
Irix
()
Date: October 14, 2016 13:40
Quote
matxilQuote
Spud
....so I don't see a problem with Bob getting one for his extensive & inarguably influential output.
Can you give an example of that?
The Stones covered 'Like A Rolling Stone' ....
Re: OT: Bob Dylan wins Nobel Prize in literature
Posted by:
matxil
()
Date: October 14, 2016 13:48
Quote
IrixQuote
matxilQuote
Spud
....so I don't see a problem with Bob getting one for his extensive & inarguably influential output.
Can you give an example of that?
The Stones covered 'Like A Rolling Stone' ....
I meant, an example of Nobel prizes of literature going to halfway decent books.
Nobody argues the huge influence of Bob Dylan.
Re: OT: Bob Dylan wins Nobel Prize in literature
Posted by:
Koen
()
Date: October 14, 2016 15:04
And of course, no comments yet from Dylan ><
<Re: OT: Bob Dylan wins Nobel Prize in literature
Posted by:
hopkins
()
Date: October 14, 2016 15:05
It's a good question maxtil and I don't have a specific example but here's a list of the recipients.
I guess it would depend on personal taste and relationship to the work; and familiarity with it.
I'm not too very well read. I'm glad Steinbeck is there; sorry they missed Frost, Orwell and others. I don't know much of it's particular importance except the esteem of the title might project this work into the future and protect it's existence and people's access to it, or interest in it it's availability.
[en.wikipedia.org]
Eacj recipient is important in their own way and manner I guess. It encourages me to keep reading. I'm fine however whatever committee wants to define sufficient liteary relevance in whatever form;
As far as the originals Nobels being war contractors well that's just as perfect as it is disgusting. Whatever pleasure or promotion of his good work this MAY bring into the future generations, all to the gooed, but I think it will stand up anyway, as will very few others of this consistent depth and reach. To what good or avail ultimately, who knows or has control of that anyway, he is misunderstood and falsely categorized from the start and hated that, he wanted to be himself and try to fnd it and be honest as he could about it is what I think. imo.
Actually a lot Dylans stuff reads well to me as lit. It has it's own internal rhythms and often contrasting rhythms too giving into the 'song' as Whitman called his own written work.
Often his couplets and verses come to me in everyday life as the circus passes by. I mean you could read 'Hard Rains a' Gonna fall' and get it pretty hard hitting. [www.youtube.com]
His life work is it's own library. He's literate enough and produces what can be defined as printed on a page and read it literature, tho the N committee is specifically awarding him for his songs, as well as their lyrical content. They put it pretty concisely in their own description of their own event. But I hope yields some questions as to who or who may not be a really major contributor but is still on that list, including people who don't think much of Bob. Tho there are some folks playing the sneer derision number with it and he's done nothing much to deserve contempt imo.
I guess it would depend on personal taste and relationship to the work; and familiarity with it.
I'm not too very well read. I'm glad Steinbeck is there; sorry they missed Frost, Orwell and others. I don't know much of it's particular importance except the esteem of the title might project this work into the future and protect it's existence and people's access to it, or interest in it it's availability.
[en.wikipedia.org]
Eacj recipient is important in their own way and manner I guess. It encourages me to keep reading. I'm fine however whatever committee wants to define sufficient liteary relevance in whatever form;
As far as the originals Nobels being war contractors well that's just as perfect as it is disgusting. Whatever pleasure or promotion of his good work this MAY bring into the future generations, all to the gooed, but I think it will stand up anyway, as will very few others of this consistent depth and reach. To what good or avail ultimately, who knows or has control of that anyway, he is misunderstood and falsely categorized from the start and hated that, he wanted to be himself and try to fnd it and be honest as he could about it is what I think. imo.
Actually a lot Dylans stuff reads well to me as lit. It has it's own internal rhythms and often contrasting rhythms too giving into the 'song' as Whitman called his own written work.
Often his couplets and verses come to me in everyday life as the circus passes by. I mean you could read 'Hard Rains a' Gonna fall' and get it pretty hard hitting. [www.youtube.com]
His life work is it's own library. He's literate enough and produces what can be defined as printed on a page and read it literature, tho the N committee is specifically awarding him for his songs, as well as their lyrical content. They put it pretty concisely in their own description of their own event. But I hope yields some questions as to who or who may not be a really major contributor but is still on that list, including people who don't think much of Bob. Tho there are some folks playing the sneer derision number with it and he's done nothing much to deserve contempt imo.
Re: OT: Bob Dylan wins Nobel Prize in literature
Posted by:
with sssoul
()
Date: October 14, 2016 15:18
I'm thrilled for Bob Dylan and congratulate the Nobel committee on their choice.
Looking forward to whatever the Stones play tonight to honour him -
It's All Right Ma (in fact it's a Nobel)? :E
Looking forward to whatever the Stones play tonight to honour him -
It's All Right Ma (in fact it's a Nobel)? :E
Re: OT: Bob Dylan wins Nobel Prize in literature
Posted by:
wonderboy
()
Date: October 14, 2016 16:25
Song lyrics can be literature, and they don't need to stand alone. The music contributes and enhances and gives the 'reader' context to better appreciate the words.
A lyric becomes literature when it has meaning and beauty and has something to say.
For example, 'Brown Sugar' is literature.
And literature can expand to other medias, too. Someday, somebody may earn a Nobel for Literature for the quality of his or her tweets on Twitter.
Congratulations to Bob.
A lyric becomes literature when it has meaning and beauty and has something to say.
For example, 'Brown Sugar' is literature.
And literature can expand to other medias, too. Someday, somebody may earn a Nobel for Literature for the quality of his or her tweets on Twitter.
Congratulations to Bob.
Re: OT: Bob Dylan wins Nobel Prize in literature
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 14, 2016 16:38
Quote
wonderboy
Song lyrics can be literature, and they don't need to stand alone. The music contributes and enhances and gives the 'reader' context to better appreciate the words.
A lyric becomes literature when it has meaning and beauty and has something to say.
For example, 'Brown Sugar' is literature.
And literature can expand to other medias, too. Someday, somebody may earn a Nobel for Literature for the quality of his or her tweets on Twitter.
Congratulations to Bob.
I'm listening Desolation Row now. He reversed it. The music is the backdrop, and the words are the main thing. It's brilliant. It's definitely literature and poetry of a breathtaking standard, imo.
Re: OT: Bob Dylan wins Nobel Prize in literature
Posted by:
emotionalbarbecue
()
Date: October 14, 2016 16:40
you can turn a poem into a song, and both stand alone by themselves (english is not my language so I do not know If I express the idea...)
but the lyric of a song may be a trainwreck without music. This is why Brown Sugar is a superb song....but not literature. Try to just read it loud in front of people....
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-10-14 16:42 by emotionalbarbecue.
but the lyric of a song may be a trainwreck without music. This is why Brown Sugar is a superb song....but not literature. Try to just read it loud in front of people....
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-10-14 16:42 by emotionalbarbecue.
Re: OT: Bob Dylan wins Nobel Prize in literature
Posted by:
slewan
()
Date: October 14, 2016 16:52
Quote
RipThisBone
Great news!
Nobel Prize winner opens for THE ROLLING STONES next friday!
to pay respect to him, they should change the running order of the show (or at least perform half of their show on their bended knees)
Re: OT: Bob Dylan wins Nobel Prize in literature
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 14, 2016 16:55
Quote
slewanQuote
RipThisBone
Great news!
Nobel Prize winner opens for THE ROLLING STONES next friday!
to pay respect to him, they should change the running order of the show (or at least perform half of their show on their bended knees)
Or simply do Like A Rolling Stones (which is about all they can do, anyway)
Re: OT: Bob Dylan wins Nobel Prize in literature
Posted by:
Aquamarine
()
Date: October 14, 2016 17:17
Quote
matxilQuote
AquamarineQuote
matxil
I think Bob Dylan is a fantastic song-lyric-writer. So is Chuck Berry. And Tom Waits. And Nick Cave. But it's not literature. It's song lyrics.
I disagree. I'm a literature professor, for decades, and I would say Dylan is the only musician of his generation whose lyrics stand alone as poetry (and that isn't dissing song lyrics, but acknowledging that, as you suggest, they're a different genre). It's true that the work of a few other songwriters crosses over into poetry, such as Leonard Cohen--but none of them match either the consistency of his poetic power or his incredibly far-reaching influence, on generations of writers (not just song writers). So this is a very well-deserved honor, going to a man who isn't bound by genre or indeed by anything else. And whose very best words aren't matched by anybody else, any time, anywhere.
Edited for typos
Okay, fair enough. I would think the test for that would be: are the lyrics (or poems, if you wish) of Bob Dylan just as strong without hearing the music? Can they stand alone? Are they independent of the melody and harmony and the music? I'd say they are not, and any good song lyrics shouldn't be. Good song-lyrics should follow the musical climaxes (e.g. Chuck Berry's "looking like a model on a cover of a magazine" following the guitar cadence, or Bob Dylan's Subterranean Homesick blues, with "look out kid" just at the moment of the chord change) and, hence, is not a standalone text.
I'd cite Visions of Johanna as just one example that they do stand alone.
Re: OT: Bob Dylan wins Nobel Prize in literature
Posted by:
Redhotcarpet
()
Date: October 14, 2016 17:45
He is worthy in many ways but I just dont think this is something he deserved or wished for.
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