I have tried many different Stones hybrid sacd-discs (Beggars Banguet, December's Children for example) now with THREE different Sony SACD players:

SCD-XA9000ES
SCD-555ES
DVP-NS9100ES

Every disc plays well as a normal cd-disc but none of those players do find the sacd-layer on those discs, when I push SACD/CD -button EVERY THREE PLAYER says NOT HYBRID!!!!!

And all those discs are ABKCO 2002 SACD hybrid releases.

WTF????

What sacd players are you using with these hybrid discs?
I found dozens of threads in different forums in the internet about the same problem with hybrid sacd discs with Sony players.

I still have one Sony player: SCD-XA5400ES (this should be the best one of all), I haven't tried that one yet, it's not currently in my setup, I have it in my garage.

I guess I may have put a lot of money on those sacd discs in vain....

I have sacd-only releases for later Stones albums and this problem is not about them at all.

And the earlier albums (until 1966 or so) are not even available as japanese SHM-SACD versions (sacd-layer only versions) so it seems impossible to play these earlier albums as SACD-level if the hybrid discs are not playable as sacd-discs in any on my players....

I guess the vinyl is the only option for the earlier albums... But it needs very good vinyl setup and I don't have that.

Strange, I've never heard of this problem before. I bought all the hybrid SACD's when they came out in 2002, except for Hot Rocks. I just tried playing several and they all played the SACD layer. I have a Sony CE775 5 disc SACD changer which I bought because of these releases. Also have the ABKCO hybrid best of Herman's Hermits and Sam Cooke and both play, too.
Has this always been the case for you or is this a recent development?

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DGA35
Strange, I've never heard of this problem before. I bought all the hybrid SACD's when they came out in 2002, except for Hot Rocks. I just tried playing several and they all played the SACD layer. I have a Sony CE775 5 disc SACD changer which I bought because of these releases. Also have the ABKCO hybrid best of Herman's Hermits and Sam Cooke and both play, too.
Has this always been the case for you or is this a recent development?

I have all those releases and they still play in beautiful SACD on my 5 Disc Sony SACD player.

Ah ha ha ha ha ha... Super Audio Compact Disc discs!

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GasLightStreet
Ah ha ha ha ha ha... Super Audio Compact Disc discs!

Same audio quality level as DSD native level which even many audiphiles use these days as a digital standard with very high end systems, they often have hard drive media servers with high end digital players.... With good digital player (or SACD-player) the difference is considerable to a standard cd-player and I guess the reproduction is very comparable to a very good vinyl system..... You can even buy DSD level audio files in some places in the Internet like HD tracks, also Rolling Stones material.

In Japan SACD is very common standard, oddly not elsewhere in the world.

But those players (SCD-XA9000ES Sony's flagship model about ten years ago and SCD-555 also one of Sony's high-end models) play single layer SACD-discs without any problem and also hybrid discs they play as normal cd-discs without any problem but the quality with normal cd-disc is clearly not the same as with sacd-discs. I must try that SCD-XA5400ES yet if it's the fourth player with the same issue, though that player should be also as a normal cd player one of the best players in the world. (much better than Sony SCD-XA9000ES, Sony SCD-777ES or Sony SCD-1 for example as a normal cd player)

In various internet forums there seems to be several threads about the issue, I'm not sure if it's Sony spesific issue but some people have reported that many Sony players don't find or even may lose the capability to find the sacd-layer on the discs over time. If the laser head is replaced to a new one the problem can be solved (I got that impression) but the cost for this operation is not very small....

I just played yesterday one Stones single layer SACD-disc and there wasn't any problem (with SCD-XA9000ES), remastered series promo disc (single layer SACD-disc), the sound quality being absolutely fantastic.

I tried to find information if the same issue is with Marantz SACD-players but didn't find anything about them, maybe they are better.

From TSMR -album to Undercover all Stones albums are availabe as a single layer japanese SHM-SACD discs (not cheap!) so for them this is not any issue.

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GasLightStreet
Ah ha ha ha ha ha... Super Audio Compact Disc discs!

Trolling for trolling's sake as usual.
Don't you have a life to live, other than posting crap on this board?

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rollingon

I guess the vinyl is the only option for the earlier albums...

If you have a DAC in your HighEnd-System, you could try the HighRes-files from Digital Stores: [iorr.org] .

It's not legitimate, but ISO-files of the RS-SACDs can also be found on the Internet, e.g. HDMusic.me or mqs.link. The ISO-files can be played via HighRes-AudioPlayer (e.g. Astell&Kern AK240, Sony NW-ZX2 or similar) or via PC/Mac (e.g. JRiver, Foobar2000, Audirvana+, Puremusic).

Now I found one hybrid-sacd - disc / player combination that really works!

Sony dvp-ns9100es (is actually a dvd player) recognizes the sacd-layer of Aftermath hybrid-sacd disc and plays it okay. It also recognizes the normal cd-layer so you can choose between them if you like. By default it plays the sacd-layer. I've tried other hybrid-sacd discs in this player but they work only as a normal cd disc so this is pretty odd.

And the high-end SCD-XA9000ES or SCD-555ES player don't recognize any sacd-layers in the hybrid discs.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-09-26 17:25 by rollingon.

I think I try that Sony SCD-XA5400ES with those hybrid discs, it contains much newer technology from Sony and is one of the most respected players in the market from what I've heard (CD or SACD). Some say that even normal poorly mastered cds from '90s sound pretty well from this player... Sounds unbelievable though....

I mainly use the Oppo and Cambridge Audio universal disc players and they have no problem playing the SA-CD layer of these discs by default.

With the older Oppo players from years ago,you would have to go into the disc player's menu and select a setting of which layer for it to play by default. Now,with the newer ones from the last 2 or 3 generations,they default to the SA-CD layer.

By the way,Sony has just announced an UltraHD Blu-ray / 3D Blu-ray / Blu-ray disc / DVD / CD / SA-CD player which looks very interesting. Oppo and Cambridge Audio will probably follow next year.

I've become a fan lately of just the SHM format. Bought the Deluxe Sticky Fingers - sounds great. Some of them ARE big money, but they sound fantastic and do play on regular CD players.

x



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-09-27 13:23 by vudicus.

I have an Oppo multidisc player and it plays the SACDs perfectly. Treat little player and still going strong after 6 years.

I've had three SACD players, all Marantz. Never had a problem with any SACD. I bought the original player specifically for the 2002 reissues.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-09-27 16:39 by rbk.

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Blueranger

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GasLightStreet
Ah ha ha ha ha ha... Super Audio Compact Disc discs!

Trolling for trolling's sake as usual.
Don't you have a life to live, other than posting crap on this board?

It's funny. If I was trolling I would be arguing pointlessly about stupid stuff that doesn't make sense.

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DEmerson
I've become a fan lately of just the SHM format. Bought the Deluxe Sticky Fingers - sounds great. Some of them ARE big money, but they sound fantastic and do play on regular CD players.

Technically , SHM itself is not a format but indicates discs constructed of different material than regular discs. This different material is supposed to result in improved sound fidelity.

There are SHM CD's and SHM SA-CD's and hybrids.

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GasLightStreet

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Blueranger

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GasLightStreet
Ah ha ha ha ha ha... Super Audio Compact Disc discs!

Trolling for trolling's sake as usual.
Don't you have a life to live, other than posting crap on this board?

It's funny. If I was trolling I would be arguing pointlessly about stupid stuff that doesn't make sense.

Which you do. Making pointless posts laughing and making fun of a topic. Get a life.

Right Winning Ugly. I'm not a techie and I may have gone a bit Off Topic to boot - I was just trying to give an option of good sounding discs that do play on CD players with no issues. And yes, there are SACD-SHM hybrids - it gets a bit confusing. SHM - standing I believe for Super High Material - some people wonder if the process would, or would not, result in a better sounding experience. It seems some do sound better than others (I've only bought a handful) - it's an avenue worth exploring. And as I mentioned, the ones that go out of print especially, can be $$$.

Do you know the word "SONY time"?

We of Japanese believe SONY products will go down just after the warranty period.
I know there are hits or misses. Unfortunately, when we have misses, we have to give up.


Anyway, this thread made me listen back to SACD catalogues.
Last night, I was listening Flowers. I enjoyed the priceless sound.
They, especially Sittin' On A Fence, are musical legacy.

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Winning Ugly VXII
Technically , SHM itself is not a format but indicates discs constructed of different material than regular discs. This different material is supposed to result in improved sound fidelity.

Sort of like buying $150 HDMI cables for better picture and sound quality?

I think SACD is just about dead these days. Physical media itself is on a death watch.

Get a Luxman D-06 ...it lurvs SACDs ... Sticky sounds great



ROCKMAN

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Rockman
Get a Luxman D-06 ...it lurvs SACDs ... Sticky sounds great

Rockman,

Good one. I like D-06.
All Luxman players have 3 years of warranty.
One of conscientious makers.

It a beautiful machine ... and sounds good



ROCKMAN

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MileHigh

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Winning Ugly VXII
Technically , SHM itself is not a format but indicates discs constructed of different material than regular discs. This different material is supposed to result in improved sound fidelity.

Sort of like buying $150 HDMI cables for better picture and sound quality?

I think SACD is just about dead these days. Physical media itself is on a death watch.

$150 HDMI cables (that are worth the money) may result in a longer life of your TV, did you know that? Cheap cables sometimes produce errors that may damage your LEDs little by little. Not the best comparison at all...

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silkcut1978_

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MileHigh

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Winning Ugly VXII
Technically , SHM itself is not a format but indicates discs constructed of different material than regular discs. This different material is supposed to result in improved sound fidelity.

Sort of like buying $150 HDMI cables for better picture and sound quality?

I think SACD is just about dead these days. Physical media itself is on a death watch.

$150 HDMI cables (that are worth the money) may result in a longer life of your TV, did you know that? Cheap cables sometimes produce errors that may damage your LEDs little by little. Not the best comparison at all...

I am a bit of a nerd so I can say that it's not worth it to spend a fortune on HDMI cables. The regular audio/video enthusiast is somewhat influenced by the hard core audio and videophiles and they are people that ascribe to a mixture of tech and pure voodoo. HDMI probably has error detecting and correction in the spec, and even if a bad bit or two did get by, it's impossible for a bad bit error to damage an LED TV.

Since HDMI is digital, and the cable is simply a typically short transmission line to deliver digital bits from point A to point B, the chances of the HDMI cable itself failing to deliver the bits whether it costs $5 or $150 is very very remote. Same thing for the different material in the SACD delivering "improved sound fidelity." It simply doesn't make any sense, bits are bits.

This business can even extend to pure quackery to rip people off for a pretty penny. There is a company named "Bedini" that sells a "CD Clarifier." They say you just have to pop your CD in to the "Clarifier" ($400 USD) and push a button and then 60 seconds later you can pop the CD into your CD player and it will sound better.

The history of the domestic "Hi Fi" market [analogue & digital] is littered with "snake oil" and the purveyors thereof.

Very often it is just smoke & mirrors ...but occasionally it proves to have a sound scientific basis which just hadn't previously been discovered or appreciated.

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MileHigh

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Winning Ugly VXII
Technically , SHM itself is not a format but indicates discs constructed of different material than regular discs. This different material is supposed to result in improved sound fidelity.

Sort of like buying $150 HDMI cables for better picture and sound quality?

I think SACD is just about dead these days. Physical media itself is on a death watch.

Perhaps there may be some truth to that however, :

1) That would not matter much to a Stones fan already with a collection of Stones albums on SA-CD and with the equipment to play those albums. (How many more new albums will they release ??)

2) Physical Blu-ray discs and UltraHD Blu-ray discs offer a better experience than streaming compressed movies from services such as NetFlix etc. which aside from being compressed (video and audio) , introduce internet bandwidth into the equation.

As far as SHM discs go,even if the SHM material itself doesn't offer a noticeable benefit,in some cases it is just along for the ride .... it doesn't create worse sound. For example,the best digital version of "Exile On Main Street" is a 2011 released Japanese SHM SA-CD. It's the only release of that album which can contend with the original vinyl for sound quality.

 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2016-11-05 19:46 by blueswithafeeling.

Interesting question. When the Stones released the back catalogue in the SACD Hybrid disc format I ponied up and bought em all(actually my wife arranged for it) and I so I needed a SACD player. I purchased the Sony SCDCE775 multi disc changer and it worked great until a few years ago when randomly the player would not recognize the sacd in 2 CH of multi channel formats. It would always play the discs but wasn't reading the discs properly. Had it fixed and it worked up until a few months ago. I just gave up and upgraded to the Oppo BDP 105D player. It plays great and says whether SACD's are 2 CH or Multi CH. Excellent sound. Maybe the HDMI ouput would sound better, but my Rotel receiver doesn't have an HDMI input, just Stereo Analogue RCA's. Trust me it sounds wonderful. The good thing about the Oppo player is that it also does dvd Blu-ray, and connects wirelessly with the net for streaming purposes. Bottom line a very versatile machine that does quality playbacks for audio and visual outputs.

Rollingon, the discs more than likely aren't the problem. Time for some new audio equipment. Always a fun thing to do. Good luck!