Hi timmyj3 ()

1) It sounded like Mick had a pretty good feel for the business side of life starting in 1969. He did...helped with schooling at the London School of Economics.

2) In your opinion would "Gimme Shelter" have been a much bigger movie with proper distribution at the time? I know it is a classic today. Absolutely..I regret not doing the Warner Bros deal.. Cinema 5-the distributor was a New York centric distributor and not as big internationally...

3) Why is your uncle so disparaged? You seem to paint a picture of a firm but fair to the artists person? He was fair until he wasn't..think jilted lover with revenge..or greedy ex..

4) I love Herman's Hermits (they are vastly under appreciated). Did you like working with them? Loved working with them.. plus Peter Noone was a pleasure ..used to bump into him in the Bahamas..

5) I read an odd Stones book back in like 1976 when I was starting high school. This book actual made John Jaymes a central figure in the story of the 69 Tour. It never made any sense, until your book cleared it up a bit. Considering he nearly got me killed. On the plus side...I've met other con men since..he taught me how to recognize them..

I"m glad you liked the book..please leave a review on Amazon...

Hi hopkins ()

At the 28 minute mark I begin talking about Altamont.
Ronnie Schneider speaking in San Francisco

gosh ron i didn't know that joel selvin was such a liar and went out of his way to knowingly deceive. Compare the facts in my book to his story. PS--I confronted him at Book Soup about his BS..

And Gleason "lied" too? and "tricked you into it" He didn't trick me but no one listened to me...plus we were on the road and quite busy..
Firstly, Maybe your publisher should sue Harper Collins about Joel? I am my own publisher so I could get the true story out.. I didn't want to be malicious plus--free speech and he has a family..But it did piss me off..I told him when he interviewed me that I was doing my own book and he should wait since I was a main character in his 'True Story' and I wouldn't be sharing the facts to him. so he made them up...

Also, about Ralph being a trickster and liar, wow all these people were so into screwing everyone else I guess....but you were there two days prior as you say, was he tricking you for both those days, or let's say over that entire time period you were representing the band's interest for your Uncle. NOT remotely true..
At least that's as much as I can understand this far. That's a lot of charges tho.
I always liked Selvin's writing; but I'm not vouching for stuff I'm not sure about.
Here's an interesting review; a sort of more neutral looksee; I didn't 'cherrypick' it or even finish reading it. There are dozens of reviews.
OH a San Francisco review of a San Francisco icon...himmm--and the book did well..I'm happy for him...sorry for the people that believe it to be true.
My problem is the hundreds of books that have been written about the Stones made everyone believe they had heard it all... they hadn't..

Mr. Schneider that's quite the tale you have told. Nice book!! I found it to be informative in part, insightful, and in many a passage quite humorous. Much of what you have written in regards to the gig at Altamont Speedway meshes well with Stanley Booth's excellent book Dance with the Devil. I for one can totally see that the entirety of the negativity of that day can and should be seen as issuing solely from the Hell's Angels and that "Bay Area" culture failed to accept their part in being responsible for what went down and actually got away with foisting their bullshit view on the general public.

I ordered the book from Barnes & Noble last week, very much Looking forward to reading it once its delivered.

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bmuseed
Hi hopkins ()

At the 28 minute mark I begin talking about Altamont.
Ronnie Schneider speaking in San Francisco

gosh ron i didn't know that joel selvin was such a liar and went out of his way to knowingly deceive. Compare the facts in my book to his story. PS--I confronted him at Book Soup about his BS..

And Gleason "lied" too? and "tricked you into it" He didn't trick me but no one listened to me...plus we were on the road and quite busy..
Firstly, Maybe your publisher should sue Harper Collins about Joel? I am my own publisher so I could get the true story out.. I didn't want to be malicious plus--free speech and he has a family..But it did piss me off..I told him when he interviewed me that I was doing my own book and he should wait since I was a main character in his 'True Story' and I wouldn't be sharing the facts to him. so he made them up...

Also, about Ralph being a trickster and liar, wow all these people were so into screwing everyone else I guess....but you were there two days prior as you say, was he tricking you for both those days, or let's say over that entire time period you were representing the band's interest for your Uncle. NOT remotely true..
At least that's as much as I can understand this far. That's a lot of charges tho.
I always liked Selvin's writing; but I'm not vouching for stuff I'm not sure about.
Here's an interesting review; a sort of more neutral looksee; I didn't 'cherrypick' it or even finish reading it. There are dozens of reviews.
OH a San Francisco review of a San Francisco icon...himmm--and the book did well..I'm happy for him...sorry for the people that believe it to be true.
My problem is the hundreds of books that have been written about the Stones made everyone believe they had heard it all... they hadn't..

Thank you for responding Ron.
I hope you are enjoying what has obviously been a really fun and imformative experience for a lot of fans.
I haven't had a chance to get my hands on one yet but look forward to enyoying it too.

If you'd be kind enough to tolerate a small request to personally
consider some of the other points about Hunter made here by fans, aside
from the stupidity and irresponsiblity and danger of bringing
a weapon into a rock show; a hippie one at that....
_______________

(editing this in):
...i can never prove it, but I strongly feel that Hunter did
have the morality conciousness that stopped him from firing around that crowd before Passaro finished him.
But I don't know for sure and certain;
just feeling that assuming he was going to shoot Mick,
should be expressesd as speculation, not certain fact that
the guy was a killer coming to do harm. we do not know that,
none of us....no personal witness remotely associated with
him that day and night, to my limited knowlege, has indicated that.
He was, and had been, in clear position to create a close-range tragedy
before trouble came to him; and not vice versa...
______________________

The whole thing makes me, at times, actually a little sick, as I'm sure it's upsetting for everyone even remotely involved.
Gleason ended up blaming himself along with everybody else,
as decades passed and perspective become less personally reactionary.
friggn mess for sure. glad you're doing well.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-08 17:30 by hopkins.

For what it is worth, Hunter did supposedly say to the Angel "I wasn't going to shoot you"

I am more curious if Ronnie thinks the Altamont full concert audio and video will ever be officially released by the Stones. Was that ever considered to his knowledge?

hopkins () In reply..

The only thing I think about that event is that I am thankful the Hells Angel was standing next to him when he pulled the gun. I have no idea of what Hunter was thinking, nor does anyone else in the world. And I'm thankful it was captured on film and his girlfriend had on a white sweater so we saw the gun, otherwise, I think this would be a much different discussion.

...i can never prove it, but I strongly feel that Hunter did have the morality conciousness that stopped him from firing around that crowd before Passaro finished him. But I don't know for sure and certain; just feeling that assuming he was going to shoot Mick, should be expressesd as speculation, not certain fact that the guy was a killer coming to do harm. we do not know that, none of us....no personal witness remotely associated with him that day and night, to my limited knowlege, has indicated that. He was, and had been, in clear position to create a close-range tragedy before trouble came to him; and not vice versa...
______________________

It's shit like this I just saw from an article in 2009 that pisses me off....[www.eastbaytimes.com]:
But problems arose when it became known that the Stones were planning to use the event as a pivotal scene in “Gimme Shelter.” Sears Point owners were peeved, negotiations broke down, and the festival again found itself without a home.
“We sort of felt like we got taken,” says Alamo resident Bob Matthews, a recording engineer on several Dead albums who rolled tape at Altamont. “We were doing this because (the Stones) were going to do a free concert for San Francisco, which they did, but its focus was on this movie, not just on playing music.”

Anyone who read my book knows this is easily provable as a total fabrication. There were no plans to make a film !!!

PS: bigger question..even though the Dead ran away... Did Matthews tape the shows? and if so...???

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bmuseed

PS: bigger question..even though the Dead ran away... Did Matthews tape the shows? and if so...???

I read in other bay area articles I can't find right now that state that Matthews did record the show and still has the tapes.

Here is a more balanced account of what happened that day which clearly states two things.

1. The Angels were not formally hired to do security
2. Matthews recorded the Stones set and still has the tapes

[www.mercurynews.com]

According to Alamo resident Bob Matthews, who recorded the performance and still holds the tapes, the band delivered an inspired second set that closed, ironically, with “Street Fighting Man,” a song that might have rung the closing bell on the Woodstock era.

Also there was an excellent Salon article about the making of Gimme Shelter I can't access anymore where Zwerin stated Maysles sent her a complete video of the Stones set so there must be that video with sound sitting in someones vaults.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-04-09 20:02 by oldschool.

Maybe, as in 2019 unreleased material enters the Public Domain, Mr Matthews might see fit to get his tapes released.
Without fear of litigation from ABKCO etc.

"Are you a Beatles fan? How about The Rolling Stones? Well, you are in for a treat this Thursday at 10am pst/ 1pm est with special guest, manager of both the Beatles and The Rolling Stones, Mr. Ronnie Schneider. Ronnie Schneider shares his new book, Out Of Our Heads, featuring his days with The Rolling Stones, and the Beatles as first accountant and then manager. Instrumental in making the deals that lead to some of the biggest moments in Rock and Roll history, Ronnie shares his insider, first-hand view of how it really went down. Don't miss this incredible sit down interview with Ronnie Schneider, the man behind the scenes who steered the biggest ships in music history, all the while staying behind the scenes."

Listen here: [www.voiceamerica.com]

Mr. Schneider, among the following who would have the most interesting perspective on that day in December of 1969"

Bill Belmont
Chip Monck
Tony Funches
Jon James

Tony Funches- he was dealing with everyone including the Angels, which led to his broken wrist..

Quote
curt
Mr. Schneider, among the following who would have the most interesting perspective on that day in December of 1969"

Bill Belmont
Chip Monck
Tony Funches
Jon James

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bmuseed
Tony Funches-

Yeah, so sad he passed away last year

-------------------
Keep On Rolling

"Jaymes is bad karma to boot. From Los Angeles to when we arrive in New York, he builds this incredible kind of trip like The Man Who Can Get Everything Done with a minimal amount of problems. Well, that really wore thin, because in fact it wasn't true. He'd gotten six members of the New York Narcotics Bureau – full York Narcotics Bureau. Leave the rest of it up to you. You work it all out. I mean, it's such a @#$%& rotten trip, it's incredible," Cutler said.

Jaymes is a man with connections, then, and it was through these connections that he was able to secure Golden Gate Park in San Francisco for the concert. He struck out. Cutler and Rock Scully of the Dead were in a bind now, because they'd been doing nothing while Jaymes took care of everything. There were no permit applications for the park, so now there was no site for the concert. Then, Cutler recalled, the City came up with three possible sites, all of them owned by the Bank of America, two of them "@#$%& useless." The third, Deer Island near Novato in Marin County, 35 miles north of San Francisco, turned out to be just fine, but the bank was asking for too much bread.

Enter (again) Jaymes and Schneider, who have discovered Sears Point International Raceway. Which, it turns out, is owned by Filmways, which also own Concert Associates; the latter had presented the Stones in Los Angeles, and complained about the hard bargain the Stones drove on their contracts. Just when the site is almost set up for the concert, Cutler says, Filmways decides to claim 50 percent of the film revenues. Thus, another deal falls through.

In almost no time, some more wheeling and dealing brought them Altamont. Scully and Cutler arrived at the new site to view it for the first time just twenty hours before Santana's set was to begin. Scully almost croaked right there, but Cutler felt the show must go on regardless of the inherent ugliness of the site, and by 10 AM Saturday, the PA was set up and the stage had been moved over from Sears Point."

Mr. Schneider, is what is said here about Jaymes setting up the gig in GG Park true ?

Quote
curt
"Jaymes is bad karma to boot. From Los Angeles to when we arrive in New York, he builds this incredible kind of trip like The Man Who Can Get Everything Done with a minimal amount of problems. Well, that really wore thin, because in fact it wasn't true. He'd gotten six members of the New York Narcotics Bureau – full York Narcotics Bureau. Leave the rest of it up to you. You work it all out. I mean, it's such a @#$%& rotten trip, it's incredible," Cutler said.

Jaymes is a man with connections, then, and it was through these connections that he was able to secure Golden Gate Park in San Francisco for the concert. He struck out. Cutler and Rock Scully of the Dead were in a bind now, because they'd been doing nothing while Jaymes took care of everything. There were no permit applications for the park, so now there was no site for the concert. Then, Cutler recalled, the City came up with three possible sites, all of them owned by the Bank of America, two of them "@#$%& useless." The third, Deer Island near Novato in Marin County, 35 miles north of San Francisco, turned out to be just fine, but the bank was asking for too much bread.

Enter (again) Jaymes and Schneider, who have discovered Sears Point International Raceway. Which, it turns out, is owned by Filmways, which also own Concert Associates; the latter had presented the Stones in Los Angeles, and complained about the hard bargain the Stones drove on their contracts. Just when the site is almost set up for the concert, Cutler says, Filmways decides to claim 50 percent of the film revenues. Thus, another deal falls through.

In almost no time, some more wheeling and dealing brought them Altamont. Scully and Cutler arrived at the new site to view it for the first time just twenty hours before Santana's set was to begin. Scully almost croaked right there, but Cutler felt the show must go on regardless of the inherent ugliness of the site, and by 10 AM Saturday, the PA was set up and the stage had been moved over from Sears Point."

Mr. Schneider, is what is said here about Jaymes setting up the gig in GG Park true ?

On page 95 of Selvins book he writes that Scully had a guy, Bert Kanegson, who was the Deads guru at getting permits for Golden Gate Park. He had lined up support with the Parks Commissioners so that the permit approval looked like a rubber stamp until he got a call from Cutler that the "Stones" would handle it directly with the office of Mayors Joe Alioto.

Evidently James tried to bypass the process and go directly to the Mayors office which killed the chance for the permit once the Stones name was mentioned for the permit.

Quote
oldschool

Quote
curt
"Jaymes is bad karma to boot. From Los Angeles to when we arrive in New York, he builds this incredible kind of trip like The Man Who Can Get Everything Done with a minimal amount of problems. Well, that really wore thin, because in fact it wasn't true. He'd gotten six members of the New York Narcotics Bureau – full York Narcotics Bureau. Leave the rest of it up to you. You work it all out. I mean, it's such a @#$%& rotten trip, it's incredible," Cutler said.

Jaymes is a man with connections, then, and it was through these connections that he was able to secure Golden Gate Park in San Francisco for the concert. He struck out. Cutler and Rock Scully of the Dead were in a bind now, because they'd been doing nothing while Jaymes took care of everything. There were no permit applications for the park, so now there was no site for the concert. Then, Cutler recalled, the City came up with three possible sites, all of them owned by the Bank of America, two of them "@#$%& useless." The third, Deer Island near Novato in Marin County, 35 miles north of San Francisco, turned out to be just fine, but the bank was asking for too much bread.

Enter (again) Jaymes and Schneider, who have discovered Sears Point International Raceway. Which, it turns out, is owned by Filmways, which also own Concert Associates; the latter had presented the Stones in Los Angeles, and complained about the hard bargain the Stones drove on their contracts. Just when the site is almost set up for the concert, Cutler says, Filmways decides to claim 50 percent of the film revenues. Thus, another deal falls through.

In almost no time, some more wheeling and dealing brought them Altamont. Scully and Cutler arrived at the new site to view it for the first time just twenty hours before Santana's set was to begin. Scully almost croaked right there, but Cutler felt the show must go on regardless of the inherent ugliness of the site, and by 10 AM Saturday, the PA was set up and the stage had been moved over from Sears Point."

Mr. Schneider, is what is said here about Jaymes setting up the gig in GG Park true ?

On page 95 of Selvins book he writes that Scully had a guy, Bert Kanegson, who was the Deads guru at getting permits for Golden Gate Park. He had lined up support with the Parks Commissioners so that the permit approval looked like a rubber stamp until he got a call from Cutler that the "Stones" would handle it directly with the office of Mayors Joe Alioto.

Evidently James tried to bypass the process and go directly to the Mayors office which killed the chance for the permit once the Stones name was mentioned for the permit.

Thank sai, odd how this bit is always laid off on Mick. That it was him pissing on some "rule" about an early announcement...

Golden Gate Park was always handled by the Dead --Jaymes and I were in NY .. he was asked to help when Golden Gate fell thru..
and re: "Enter (again) Jaymes and Schneider, who have discovered Sears Point International Raceway."--- I was in NY and didn't discover anything..I was called and asked to go to SF to deal with Sears Point after..
be aware of the time frame...Dec 1-Dec 6...the SF locals were supposedly taking care of it all...
There was a reason I put the Proof of Truth in my book..

Quote
curt

Quote
oldschool

Quote
curt
"Jaymes is bad karma to boot. From Los Angeles to when we arrive in New York, he builds this incredible kind of trip like The Man Who Can Get Everything Done with a minimal amount of problems. Well, that really wore thin, because in fact it wasn't true. He'd gotten six members of the New York Narcotics Bureau – full York Narcotics Bureau. Leave the rest of it up to you. You work it all out. I mean, it's such a @#$%& rotten trip, it's incredible," Cutler said.

Jaymes is a man with connections, then, and it was through these connections that he was able to secure Golden Gate Park in San Francisco for the concert. He struck out. Cutler and Rock Scully of the Dead were in a bind now, because they'd been doing nothing while Jaymes took care of everything. There were no permit applications for the park, so now there was no site for the concert. Then, Cutler recalled, the City came up with three possible sites, all of them owned by the Bank of America, two of them "@#$%& useless." The third, Deer Island near Novato in Marin County, 35 miles north of San Francisco, turned out to be just fine, but the bank was asking for too much bread.

Enter (again) Jaymes and Schneider, who have discovered Sears Point International Raceway. Which, it turns out, is owned by Filmways, which also own Concert Associates; the latter had presented the Stones in Los Angeles, and complained about the hard bargain the Stones drove on their contracts. Just when the site is almost set up for the concert, Cutler says, Filmways decides to claim 50 percent of the film revenues. Thus, another deal falls through.

In almost no time, some more wheeling and dealing brought them Altamont. Scully and Cutler arrived at the new site to view it for the first time just twenty hours before Santana's set was to begin. Scully almost croaked right there, but Cutler felt the show must go on regardless of the inherent ugliness of the site, and by 10 AM Saturday, the PA was set up and the stage had been moved over from Sears Point."

Mr. Schneider, is what is said here about Jaymes setting up the gig in GG Park true ?

On page 95 of Selvins book he writes that Scully had a guy, Bert Kanegson, who was the Deads guru at getting permits for Golden Gate Park. He had lined up support with the Parks Commissioners so that the permit approval looked like a rubber stamp until he got a call from Cutler that the "Stones" would handle it directly with the office of Mayors Joe Alioto.

Evidently James tried to bypass the process and go directly to the Mayors office which killed the chance for the permit once the Stones name was mentioned for the permit.

Thank sai, odd how this bit is always laid off on Mick. That it was him pissing on some "rule" about an early announcement...

Quote
bmuseed
Golden Gate Park was always handled by the Dead --Jaymes and I were in NY .. he was asked to help when Golden Gate fell thru..
and re: "Enter (again) Jaymes and Schneider, who have discovered Sears Point International Raceway."--- I was in NY and didn't discover anything..I was called and asked to go to SF to deal with Sears Point after..
be aware of the time frame...Dec 1-Dec 6...the SF locals were supposedly taking care of it all...
There was a reason I put the Proof of Truth in my book..

Quote
curt

Quote
oldschool

Quote
curt
"Jaymes is bad karma to boot. From Los Angeles to when we arrive in New York, he builds this incredible kind of trip like The Man Who Can Get Everything Done with a minimal amount of problems. Well, that really wore thin, because in fact it wasn't true. He'd gotten six members of the New York Narcotics Bureau – full York Narcotics Bureau. Leave the rest of it up to you. You work it all out. I mean, it's such a @#$%& rotten trip, it's incredible," Cutler said.

Jaymes is a man with connections, then, and it was through these connections that he was able to secure Golden Gate Park in San Francisco for the concert. He struck out. Cutler and Rock Scully of the Dead were in a bind now, because they'd been doing nothing while Jaymes took care of everything. There were no permit applications for the park, so now there was no site for the concert. Then, Cutler recalled, the City came up with three possible sites, all of them owned by the Bank of America, two of them "@#$%& useless." The third, Deer Island near Novato in Marin County, 35 miles north of San Francisco, turned out to be just fine, but the bank was asking for too much bread.

Enter (again) Jaymes and Schneider, who have discovered Sears Point International Raceway. Which, it turns out, is owned by Filmways, which also own Concert Associates; the latter had presented the Stones in Los Angeles, and complained about the hard bargain the Stones drove on their contracts. Just when the site is almost set up for the concert, Cutler says, Filmways decides to claim 50 percent of the film revenues. Thus, another deal falls through.

In almost no time, some more wheeling and dealing brought them Altamont. Scully and Cutler arrived at the new site to view it for the first time just twenty hours before Santana's set was to begin. Scully almost croaked right there, but Cutler felt the show must go on regardless of the inherent ugliness of the site, and by 10 AM Saturday, the PA was set up and the stage had been moved over from Sears Point."

Mr. Schneider, is what is said here about Jaymes setting up the gig in GG Park true ?

On page 95 of Selvins book he writes that Scully had a guy, Bert Kanegson, who was the Deads guru at getting permits for Golden Gate Park. He had lined up support with the Parks Commissioners so that the permit approval looked like a rubber stamp until he got a call from Cutler that the "Stones" would handle it directly with the office of Mayors Joe Alioto.

Evidently James tried to bypass the process and go directly to the Mayors office which killed the chance for the permit once the Stones name was mentioned for the permit.

Thankee sai, odd how this bit is always laid off on Mick. That it was him pissing on some "rule" about an early announcement...

As the above quote is from Cutler, would it just be him doing some CYA and moving the "hot potato" out of his hand ?

Quote
bmuseed
Hi timmyj3 ()

1) It sounded like Mick had a pretty good feel for the business side of life starting in 1969. He did...helped with schooling at the London School of Economics.

2) In your opinion would "Gimme Shelter" have been a much bigger movie with proper distribution at the time? I know it is a classic today. Absolutely..I regret not doing the Warner Bros deal.. Cinema 5-the distributor was a New York centric distributor and not as big internationally...

3) Why is your uncle so disparaged? You seem to paint a picture of a firm but fair to the artists person? He was fair until he wasn't..think jilted lover with revenge..or greedy ex..

4) I love Herman's Hermits (they are vastly under appreciated). Did you like working with them? Loved working with them.. plus Peter Noone was a pleasure ..used to bump into him in the Bahamas..

5) I read an odd Stones book back in like 1976 when I was starting high school. This book actual made John Jaymes a central figure in the story of the 69 Tour. It never made any sense, until your book cleared it up a bit. Considering he nearly got me killed. On the plus side...I've met other con men since..he taught me how to recognize them..

I"m glad you liked the book..please leave a review on Amazon...

Ronnie..re no 3 above.

You are being unduly fair to your Uncle, if I might say!

In 1965 they had JUST signed their first Management contract with your Uncle who in doing so duped them out of recording and publishing copyrights.
In 1967/68 his company were failing to renumerate the band members and RS Ltd adequately, as confirmed in Bill's Stone Alone book.
Around the same time he failed to make adequate provision for individual and corporate tax liabilities.Which gave them significant problems later. Arguably going into tax exile had a significant effect on their creativity and certainly the songwriting partnership of Mick and Keith.

This isn't the act of a jilted lover as the contract only ended in 1970.

Greed, immorality and inefficiency seem more appropriate descriptions.

jlowe ()---I detailed what I (and all of us) were going thru at the time..the lawsuits and deception didn't come out until later, but.... I defer to the person who was at the forefront of the events..Andrew Loog Oldham. I figure he should have the biggest complaint..at my uncle's funeral Andrew attacked the British press that attacked my uncle and then spoke of the fact that my uncle got them more money and a bigger royalty based on his talent. When it comes to music he relied on the Stones talent; when it came to music business he reliec on Klein's talent, Andrew deferred to and sold his ownership to Allen and didn't resent it.
RE: British taxes... at one time in history the UK tax system taxed people more than they made..lot's of UK talent moved.. I was there when they were planning to leave... very difficult...

Ronnie..re no 3 above.
You are being unduly fair to your Uncle, if I might say!
In 1965 they had JUST signed their first Management contract with your Uncle who in doing so duped them out of recording and publishing copyrights.
In 1967/68 his company were failing to renumerate the band members and RS Ltd adequately, as confirmed in Bill's Stone Alone book.
Around the same time he failed to make adequate provision for individual and corporate tax liabilities.Which gave them significant problems later. Arguably going into tax exile had a significant effect on their creativity and certainly the songwriting partnership of Mick and Keith.
This isn't the act of a jilted lover as the contract only ended in 1970.
Greed, immorality and inefficiency seem more appropriate descriptions.

Quote
bmuseed
jlowe ()---I detailed what I (and all of us) were going thru at the time..the lawsuits and deception didn't come out until later, but.... I defer to the person who was at the forefront of the events..Andrew Loog Oldham. I figure he should have the biggest complaint..at my uncle's funeral Andrew attacked the British press that attacked my uncle and then spoke of the fact that my uncle got them more money and a bigger royalty based on his talent. When it comes to music he relied on the Stones talent; when it came to music business he reliec on Klein's talent, Andrew deferred to and sold his ownership to Allen and didn't resent it.
RE: British taxes... at one time in history the UK tax system taxed people more than they made..lot's of UK talent moved.. I was there when they were planning to leave... very difficult...

Ronnie..re no 3 above.
You are being unduly fair to your Uncle, if I might say!
In 1965 they had JUST signed their first Management contract with your Uncle who in doing so duped them out of recording and publishing copyrights.
In 1967/68 his company were failing to renumerate the band members and RS Ltd adequately, as confirmed in Bill's Stone Alone book.
Around the same time he failed to make adequate provision for individual and corporate tax liabilities.Which gave them significant problems later. Arguably going into tax exile had a significant effect on their creativity and certainly the songwriting partnership of Mick and Keith.
This isn't the act of a jilted lover as the contract only ended in 1970.
Greed, immorality and inefficiency seem more appropriate descriptions.

I'm quite sure Oldham didn't resent it. As far as I aware he has continued to enjoy a decent lifestyle from ongoing shares in the songwriting royalties (in addition to getting a huge pay off).

The people with the biggest resentment are surely the musicians. Its not clear if they were even allowed to bid for the copyrights when Oldham was looking to bale out.
In that sense your Uncle was no better than the record companies who were despised for their greed and control.That's why Klein's clients rarely resigned with him.

As for tax: All the group members were purchasing one or more very expensive properties when on paper the couldn't afford.Example: Brian Jones puchased Cotchford in late 1968; Value of Estate some 18 months later: £160 grand in debt, less Cotchford =£120.

Their Business Manager allowed such purchases to keep them sweet. Many stars did go into tax exile, but many didn't. Many examples, including Two Beatles Three Who members and the singer Cliff Richard, all earning more than the Stones . I believe their royalties were being paid over a 20 year instalment plan to minimise tax liabilities. Hence them always crying the poor tale. How ironic.

Thursday December 13 at 8:00 PM
Beyond Baroque 681 Venice Blvd., Venice, California 90291
Pat Thomas interviews Ronnie Schneider, manager of the infamous 1969 Rolling Stones tour (including Altamont & Gimme Shelter movie) about his new book "Out Of Our Heads: Rolling Stones, Beatles and me" Ron also oversaw the Stones 1965 & 66 American tours and their 1970 European tour. Along with his uncle, Allen Klein, Ron was there in London with the Beatles as they were breaking up during the 'Let it Be' era. His book is cool because its got tons of candid backstage photos, telegrams, etc including hand-drawn notes from Paul and John to Ron to back up all of his Stones and Beatles stories. Special guest Danny Benair who was at Altamont as a teenager standing near Meredith Hunter!

Hope it is recorded and posted for the many interested fans who cannot attend in person. Have a great time!

Ron, not sure if anyone has ever asked you, but can you identify the gentleman being discussed in this thread? 15 pages and no answers apart from an association with The Living Theatre, but you might recall the face.

[iorr.org]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-12-03 23:18 by Rocky Dijon.

Rocky Dijon () No one ever asked and I don't know recognize the face.

Thanks all the same, sir. And best of luck next week.

I just finished reading Ronnie Schneider's book, "Out Of Our Heads, The Rolling Stones, The Beatles and Me"

2017
available on amazon

It's a must read for any Stones fan

It was fascinating , interesting, and very well written , I enjoyed it very much.

The detail and recollection of events and accounts put me on the tours with Ronnie and the band. .

The average Rolling Stones fan such as those of us on IORR, doesn’t realize what goes on behind the scenes of a tour or project.
The lawyers, financial contracts, limos, airplanes, hotels, food, personalities, promoters, music production, con artists, and tickets etc, certainly turns a seemingly simple straightforward endeavor into a complicated maze of twists and turns toward the ultimate goal of the correct and best “numbers “ to satisfy all concerned.

Anyone else read the book?

Happy reading.

Thanks for the heads up - £2.85 for kindle version on Amazon UK today!

syrel