When Dave (Stewart) and I wrote Say You Will, I said, I'm never gonna be able to sing like that because he's got this chord sequence running up the sky, and I just about managed it. I'd like to hear someone with a real amazing voice do it. Working with Dave was stimulating because we were into things that neither of us had done, we were up for anything. I'd certainly never written a song like Say You Will. But we wanted to surprise people.

- Mick Jagger, 1987



ROCKMAN

Quote
Rockman
When Dave (Stewart) and I wrote Say You Will, I said, I'm never gonna be able to sing like that because he's got this chord sequence running up the sky, and I just about managed it. I'd like to hear someone with a real amazing voice do it. Working with Dave was stimulating because we were into things that neither of us had done, we were up for anything. I'd certainly never written a song like Say You Will. But we wanted to surprise people.

- Mick Jagger, 1987

That's funny because the other day i said Mick doesn't have an amazing voice or anything and i got a wave of hostility, and here Mick says it himself.

Its like i love Keith's singing voice , id enjoy listening to him reciting the alphabet, but i except he doesn't have an amazing voice or even a good voice.

And what's this i hear about Mick not writing Say You Will, the best song on the album, oh man that's cheating haha

He does indeed have an amazing voice, his technique and range isn't impressive.

He has one of the most distinctive voices in the business, imo.

Quote
DandelionPowderman
He does indeed have an amazing voice, his technique and range isn't impressive.

He has one of the most distinctive voices in the business, imo.

He has a distinctive voice, it sounds thin and hollow these days, I think they tweaked a few gadgets on BAL.
One of the reasons I like albums like Exile and other albums around that period is because he was Low in the mix. He sounds to prominent over the last few studio albums with original material . I wonder why he stopped harmonising with Keith in the studio and live. Apart from the odd exception it's down to backing singers, I'd rather hear Mick and Keith. They compliment each other very well, always did.

Quote
Rocky Dijon
I love the song "Primitive Cool." That's interesting to learn about "Say You Will." I hadn't come across that before as far as I can recall. There's a couple okay Wyman tracks on his two seventies albums (and likewise on STUFF), but I thought his 1981-1982 tracks were his best work by far. Didn't much care for the last album. Best part was the title.

Yes Rocky, re. "Say You Will" the source is Jagger himself. He talks about the jumps in the vocal melody, and that he would never write something like that etc. But with Jagger one always knows that ultimately is ended up a collaboration. He is too strong.
PS - just saw that Rockman provided the exact quote. (as usual..)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-07 12:37 by Palace Revolution 2000.

Quote
DandelionPowderman
He does indeed have an amazing voice, his technique and range isn't impressive.

He has one of the most distinctive voices in the business, imo.

That's it in a nutshell.

There is that MUSICIAN interview provided by Rockman in page 52; in there - the section "Mick's Vocal Technique" - he sounds rather sincere about his technical limits as a singer (for example, being not a very good harmony singer and not being to able sing falsetto onstage - but, amazingly, uses that in creating melodies!)

There are also those recent interviews in which he talks about making STICKY FINGERS, in which he describes making over-dubs to his vocals in order hide or confuse the fact that he can't actually reach the right notes.. And one way to interpret his sayings 'finishing up the melodies' in the early days (when Keith provided mostly the music) was probably that of making to fit to his natural range, idiocrancies and technique (he said something to the effect that he 'ended up shaping the melodies, because he needed to sing them')

Anyway, back to that MUSICIAN interview - I find it interesting the point he says of "on this record (SHE'S THE BOSS) I was being asked by Bill and Nile to go hard, but there's a point when it gets too hard". To me that remark of actually going harder than his natural voice is able to, describes rather well the mid-80's Jagger recordings, from, say, UNDERCOVER to DIRTY WORK. He was like trying to shout-like rock too hard, which affected him losing some important nuances of his distinctive voice (so, for example, I do understandd Michael Jackson's nasty remark about him in making "State of Shock". Bowie could have also said to him while recording "Dancing In The Street "relax a bit, Mick"...). To me that problem was sorted out in PRIMITIVE COOL, Jagger seemingly starting paying more attention to his vocals and technique and to their natural range. (and I think the 'modern' Jagger voice was born there, the one he tries to keep in shape and which, unfortunately, sometimes go too obvious mannerisms, such as nasal). But as that "Say You Will" quote shows, Mick was clearly positively challanged in using his voice - and I think he does a marvellous job in "Say You Will" far outside of his safe zone. In many ways I rate PRIMITIVE COOL as an important record for Jagger's career in retrospect. That's was the last time he seriously wanted to re-invent himself.

- Doxa



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-07 14:04 by Doxa.

Oh well you all disagree with just about every observation i make but i least i give you subject matter

Micks voice was great ONCE. It hasn't worn well, FACT

Do you guys know something, a lot of people cant stand Mick's voice.
People i talk to say they love the music but Mick spoils it lol.
Its a bit in your face to some.
Like Bob Dylan for instance, i love the guy but folks can't get over his nasally voice.
That's why i preferred Mick when he was lower in the mix during the early seventies recordings.
Micks voice in the sixties was a completely different voice, it was unique and distinctive, i loved it, and through the 70's live i loved his growl, i couldn't get enough of it, and on occasion in more recent years when he really tries he sounds great live like when he sang That's How Strong My Love Is in Paris 03.
He can still pull it out of the bag, but he likes to save it lol. Save it for what, another life.
I'd be happy for the Stones to play 15 songs live but put everything into them. Less is more sometimes.
As for the falsetto, forget it, give me a break, i really dislike his falsetto.

Quote
DandelionPowderman
He does indeed have an amazing voice, his technique and range isn't impressive.

He has one of the most distinctive voices in the business, imo.

Of course, come on, to say anything else would be absurd. There's only man in the universe who can sing Jumping Jack Flash, or Start Me Up, or even You Got Me Rocking, and just sound right. One might argue that his singing classes (or something) make him occasionally sound a bit too self-conscious, but on the other hand it's probably the main reason he's still able to run around on stage and sing, the way he does.
Some people have special voices, whether they have great technique (Aretha Franklin, who of course has more than just technique, also lots of soul) or just a beautiful voice (Muddy Waters (and lots of soul)) or just something special and particular to them (Mick Jagger, Johnny Rotten) and they are just right for the job.

And his range isn't bad either. Try singing "Let It Loose", it's impossible for me to do, and I am not a lousy singer.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-07 15:57 by matxil.

Riffie, I don't think we disagree so much in the long run. Of course, Jagger was stronger singer when he was younger. What I above tried to do was to describe the differences and changes in the latter part of his career, starting from the early/mid-80's, and I find PRIMITIVE COOL as a crucial point him re-thinking what he will do with his main instrument. What was probably so natural for him earlier, something he might do by instinct and without much training, he couldn't produce any longer. Or at least with such convincing results as before. The guy who could scream his lungs out so naturally and strongly - if needed - in pieces like "Rocks Off" and "Rip This Joint" in his real glory days started to sound rather forced and unnatural in things like "Hold Back" or "Too Tough" when 'rocking hard' - which he would apply also to many not-so-hard-rocking numbers as well (for example, those Jackson & Bowie duets, most of SHE'S THE BOSS). By the mid-80's, Jagger started just to make a lot of noise with no real point.

This is to say that in by the time of making PRIMITIVE COOL he would have a more clear grasp what he was able to do and what not. In this sense, I think albums like PRIMITIVE COOL and WANDERING SPIRIT provide us a better Jagger as a singer, more in a charge of the range and power of his natural voice than what he did during the mid-80's, in albums like SHE'S THE BOSS and DIRTY WORK (but of course he would never reach the heights of his glory days - of which I take the last real triumph being TATTOO YOU). Surely some of the spontaneus raw feel and edge of his earlier voice is gone, and I guess by the help of some vocal coaching, substituted a pure 'technique', but I think he himself understood that that pawn was already walked to the end - at least if he was going to continue his career convincingly.

A concrete example: just compare "Lonely At The Top" to "Throwaway" to know what I mean: a mindless shouting - pushing so, so hard but not really expressing anything - is substituted by more relaxed but still more controlled use of voice, in which one can hear the distinctive color the voice has. And I think, Jagger sounding much, much better.

But that said, the standard he put in records like PRIMITIVE COOL and WANDERING SPIRIT has been damn hard to maintain ever since, as his voice has aged (getting thinner). This is tried to hide with cliche-like mannerisms, the nadar being I think GODDESS IN THE DOORWAY and to an extent ALFIE album (not to forget some of those EXILE/SOME GIRLS bonus numbers in which the difference to his glory days sounds a bit too obvious). But I think BLUE & LONESOME was a pleasent surprise - Jagger as a singer like discovering a new gear from his machine, sounding stronger than for ages. I really didn't expect that to happen.

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-07 16:51 by Doxa.

Quote
stone4ever
Oh well you all disagree with just about every observation i make but i least i give you subject matter

Micks voice was great ONCE. It hasn't worn well, FACT

Do you guys know something, a lot of people cant stand Mick's voice.
People i talk to say they love the music but Mick spoils it lol.
Its a bit in your face to some.
Like Bob Dylan for instance, i love the guy but folks can't get over his nasally voice.
That's why i preferred Mick when he was lower in the mix during the early seventies recordings.
Micks voice in the sixties was a completely different voice, it was unique and distinctive, i loved it, and through the 70's live i loved his growl, i couldn't get enough of it, and on occasion in more recent years when he really tries he sounds great live like when he sang That's How Strong My Love Is in Paris 03.
He can still pull it out of the bag, but he likes to save it lol. Save it for what, another life.
I'd be happy for the Stones to play 15 songs live but put everything into them. Less is more sometimes.
As for the falsetto, forget it, give me a break, i really dislike his falsetto.

Oh dude, you're killing me. Please go listen to 'Blue & Lonesome'
then come back and erase your crap line up there, which I can't bear.

Quote
35love

Quote
stone4ever
Oh well you all disagree with just about every observation i make but i least i give you subject matter

Micks voice was great ONCE. It hasn't worn well, FACT

Do you guys know something, a lot of people cant stand Mick's voice.
People i talk to say they love the music but Mick spoils it lol.
Its a bit in your face to some.
Like Bob Dylan for instance, i love the guy but folks can't get over his nasally voice.
That's why i preferred Mick when he was lower in the mix during the early seventies recordings.
Micks voice in the sixties was a completely different voice, it was unique and distinctive, i loved it, and through the 70's live i loved his growl, i couldn't get enough of it, and on occasion in more recent years when he really tries he sounds great live like when he sang That's How Strong My Love Is in Paris 03.
He can still pull it out of the bag, but he likes to save it lol. Save it for what, another life.
I'd be happy for the Stones to play 15 songs live but put everything into them. Less is more sometimes.
As for the falsetto, forget it, give me a break, i really dislike his falsetto.

Oh dude, you're killing me. Please go listen to 'Blue & Lonesome'
then come back and erase your crap line up there, which I can't bear.

I have to agree w/ you, Mick's voice has aged very well - he sounds outstanding on B&L, as well as on SuperHeavy. I don't get how anyone can claim otherwise.

Not a great singer, but knows how to present the song and has worked very hard over the years. He did spend a lot of time in the studio, overdubbing and putting different vocal lines in a song. IORR is a great example of that. He was at his best in those mid-70s albums, imo. His singing lost something with age and also when he stopped harmonizing with Keith. I think Keith served as sort of a guide for him.
I'd call him a good actor with his singing. On Moonlit Mile, for example, he really sells the emotion. All though Exile he sells that 2 a.m. in the basement feeling.
I don't like the shouting that he did in later years. Didn't like that he wouldn't sing a c/w song straight, like on Faraway Eyes, which could have been more heartfelt and not a parody.

Look guys and girl, i'm not arguing with you, Mick's voice has deteriorated drastically period.
If you can't except that what's the point of even talking.
I heard him sing two tracks from Blue And lonesome live on the last tour, he sounded nothing like he did in the studio.
My son has a recording studio, he can make me sound like Jagger on BAL, it happens.

If you guys want to talk talk but you need to work with some facts first.
Mick is the most amazing performer in the world, I KNOW THAT, what i am trying to get round to is how well he makes the most out of what he has.
Its deceiving, he doesn't actually have cool moves like he used too, he can't sing like he used to but he pulls it off with showmanship. That's what i celebrate about he and Keith. keith's a shit guitarist but he has bucket loads of charisma, he charms the audience, its like a magicians spell. Mick and keith are the biggest magicians act in the business.
If you listen to Mick singing in 81' 82' its appalling but those are my favorite shows, that tour was by far the best imho.
They were larger than life, it didn't matter that Mick can't sing and keith was to stoned to play. Its Rock And Roll, its outside of technique or polish, its raw and its loud and it makes an almighty sound.
That's why i love this band, not because of perfect pitch or notes.

Micks voice is one-of-a-kind greatness, and one of the main reasons the Stones are the STONES!

But...aside from the B&L covers album which he sounded OK on some of the tunes, the majority of what he's been singing the last couple of decades sounds contrived and dare I say phony and a mockery. There's been entire threads about this - his nasally vocals, his over-enunciation, it's almost as if he's a parody of himself. A lot blame should first be put on some the material itself...I imagine if there's a mediocre tune they're recording, Mick will think "I'll just give it the old Jagger yelp and make it good". Same could be said for Keith at and some of his cliche guitar riffs he plays at times...if it's a crappy song to begin with, it becomes even lamer when you have the two main men trying to copy their former glorious selves. Even if it's a great song played in a live setting - when you hear Mick whining through his nostrils on Honky Tonk Woman, it just doesn't sound right. Or when you hear Keith play Chuck Berry riffs during what is supposed to be the solo for Sympathy, it sounds a mess. Some of the nuances in Mick's "recent" singing could be due to age and some of the vocal lessons and exercises he practices, while Keith's limitations on the guitar are due to arthritis and lack of dexterity. You can't expect a a former gold medal winning Olympic runner to sprint 100 yard dash at the same speed he did in his prime.

But none of that takes away from the greatness they accomplished all those years ago, and those accomplishments are what they'll always be remembered for.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-07 20:17 by Hairball.

Quote
Hairball
Micks voice is one-of-a-kind greatness, and one of the main reasons the Stones are the STONES!

But...aside from the B&L covers album which he sounded OK on some of the tunes, the majority of what he's been singing the last couple of decades sounds contrived and dare I say phony and a mockery. There's been entire threads about this - his nasally vocals, his over-enunciation, it's almost as if he's a parody of himself. A lot blame should first be put on some the material itself...I imagine if there's a mediocre tune they're recording, Mick will think "I'll just give it the old Jagger yelp and make it good". Same could be said for Keith at and some of his cliche guitar riffs he plays at times...if it's a crappy song to begin with, it becomes even lamer when you have the two main men trying to copy their former glorious selves. Even if it's a great song played in a live setting - when you hear Mick whining through his nostrils on Honky Tonk Woman, it just doesn't sound right. Or when you hear Keith play Chuck Berry riffs during what is supposed to be the solo for Sympathy, it sounds a mess. Some of the nuances in Mick's "recent" singing could be due to age and some of the vocal lessons and exercises he practices, while Keith's limitations on the guitar are due to arthritis and lack of dexterity. You can't expect a a former gold medal winning Olympic runner to sprint 100 yard dash at the same speed he did in his prime.

But none of that takes away from the greatness they accomplished all those years ago, and those accomplishments are what they'll always be remembered for.

Perfect post, so true, the way Mick sings now is a parody of himself and i can't get over it or around it, its annoying to the extreme.
But again he proves that he doesn't have to sing that way, proof ? BAL.
So what's going on with him, why is he singing this way ?.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-07 20:32 by stone4ever.

Listen to recent versions of WH and Angie and tell me why his singing isn't great on those numbers.

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Listen to recent versions of WH and Angie and tell me why his singing isn't great on those numbers.

Yes DP he still pulls off some ballads, i still love him singing Angie and Wild Horses. That part of his voice is as good as ever, its the Rock Songs i'm getting at. He has this reputation as a Rock singer, you may of heard.

Quote
stone4ever

I heard him sing two tracks from Blue And lonesome live on the last tour, he sounded nothing like he did in the studio.

If that's the criterion - to sing live like in a record - Jagger never has been able to sing, or have been 'cheating' in the studio since the day one. . I am still waiting the day when he could deliver "Sympathy For The Devil" or "Satisfaction" or "Angie" or "Paint It Black" or "Gimme Shelter" live as I have heard him doing in an original recording, and he's been trying that for over 50 years.. Some cool versions along the years, but still not matching with those unique originals...

- Doxa

This shows that Mick still has it, more of this please Mick
singing like he means it , keith even congratulates him at the end.

[www.youtube.com]

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Listen to recent versions of WH and Angie and tell me why his singing isn't great on those numbers.

If you're asking me, I did say "the majority of what he's been singing the last couple of decades...", so there are exceptions.

Angie was one of the highlights for me at Desert Trip weekend 2. Could have been partially due to being in the moment under the desert skies and the imagery shown on the giant screens, but it was an overall great experience - kind of emotional. There were many highlights of that show as it was a really good setlist, with Midnight Rambler being the main highlight. Haven't listened to any boots from that as I'd like to remember it as I experienced it all in the moment - I'd probably cringe a bit if I heard what actually took place. I think he sings great on the studio versions of Ride 'em on Down and Just Your Fool (both were better live though), but there's several tunes on B&L where his singing sounds forced - I Can't Quit You Baby comes to mind.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Quote
stone4ever
This shows that Mick still has it, more of this please Mick
singing like he means it , keith even congratulates him at the end.

[www.youtube.com]

Still has it?? This was 14 years ago!

Just thought it was a strange example. But then again, he still has it

Quote
wonderboy
Not a great singer...

In what way is he not great? Rolling Stone 100 greatest vocalists lists him as #16, and they are using all genres. He's near the top of my list, that's for sure, I wouldn't be on this board if he wasn't.

Quote
LeonidP

Quote
wonderboy
Not a great singer...

In what way is he not great? Rolling Stone 100 greatest vocalists lists him as #16, and they are using all genres. He's near the top of my list, that's for sure, I wouldn't be on this board if he wasn't.

We can still be on this board and not rate Mick as having a brilliant voice.
As i said i love Bob Dylan but don't rate his voice



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-07 23:08 by stone4ever.

Quote
bobo

Quote
stone4ever
This shows that Mick still has it, more of this please Mick
singing like he means it , keith even congratulates him at the end.

[www.youtube.com]

Still has it?? This was 14 years ago!

Just thought it was a strange example. But then again, he still has it

We have been talking about how he has been singing over the last 2 or 3 decades. 2003 falls into that time scale.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-07 23:09 by stone4ever.

Stone4ever you and some others om this board have to be the biggest Jaggerhaters in the universe.Total crap everything you write

Quote
Doxa

Quote
stone4ever

I heard him sing two tracks from Blue And lonesome live on the last tour, he sounded nothing like he did in the studio.

If that's the criterion - to sing live like in a record - Jagger never has been able to sing, or have been 'cheating' in the studio since the day one. . I am still waiting the day when he could deliver "Sympathy For The Devil" or "Satisfaction" or "Angie" or "Paint It Black" or "Gimme Shelter" live as I have heard him doing in an original recording, and he's been trying that for over 50 years.. Some cool versions along the years, but still not matching with those unique originals...

- Doxa

Totally agree with the statement bolded above. The myth is that Mick was once a great singer whose powers have deteriorated over the years for a variety of reasons. In my opinion he, like many other pop 'singers,' has never been worth a damn live. He, like Keith, is a studio master, and knows exactly how to make the best use of his 'instrument' in a controlled setting ... but onstage whether he's moving or standing still, dude can't sing. Not a knock on him, and not even something he'd necessarily dispute himself.

Just for the hell of it, a couple of nights ago I listened to like 8 different official live versions of "Jumpin Jack Flash," starting with Ya-Ya's and concluding with the unlistenable Havana Moon. With the sole exception of MSG in '69 (when the groove is slow enough to allow Mick to actually wrap his v-cords around the melody and, heaven forbid, hold notes, the song is rendered over the years in a collection of shouts, grunts, growls, and slurs, that really only provide the barest representation of the tune itself.

I'm looking fwd to checking out the things that DP and riffie suggest above; I'd like to be disabused of the notion that modern-day live Jagger is unpalatable.

Quote
harlem shuffle
Stone4ever you and some others om this board have to be the biggest Jaggerhaters in the universe.Total crap everything you write

Is that it ??
Are you going to explain why you disagree with our opinions.
I have said a lot of good things about Mick over many threads.
Its not so black and white as that, i'm trying to find out why i feel disappointed by what Mick has become as a musician and a singer.
To me he was a God like genius, now in the words of KR Mick doesn't move me anymore.
I get the impression its all about the money, well actually my impression of Mick has gone up in my estimation recently by finding out things on this very thread.
I don't hate Mick Jagger, i think i misunderstood him as a person.
I'm actually excited at the prospect of another solo album from him now.
But i don't have to listen to the cheer leading on here without calling people out if i disagree.
I'm pleased for all you guys that can't find fault with the way he sings in the last two decades, but i disagree and i have every right to.
Hairball summed it up perfectly earlier, he explained exactly how Mick sounds to me, phony and fake. Is that total crap ?? is it really. Sure he sings some songs great but not others. Keith comes under criticism a hell of a lot, why not Mick ??

Quote
harlem shuffle
Stone4ever you and some others om this board have to be the biggest Jaggerhaters in the universe.Total crap everything you write

Re: How Much Would You Pay For Keith's Ashes new
Posted by: harlem shuffle ()
Date: July 8, 2017 00:25

Stone4ever wanna pay 1000000 pund i think

I just found this on one of your posts today on a thread i haven't even entered.
You are a troll and a Keith hater for sure. You are a bit scary.

You guys want to celebrate Mick solo, well this was the show.
Webster Hall. Don't Tear Me Up and Mother Of A Man.
Here we see Mick singing true and honest, nothing phony about this performance plus it shows how well he can perform without running all over the stage. Enjoy.

[www.youtube.com]

Mother Of A Man about 3.30 in.
[www.youtube.com]


See what i mean, this is how Mick can sing when he want's to.
Why we don't see this more often i have no idea, but this is the Jagger i love, this is how i wish he would sing Stones songs.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2017-07-08 01:42 by stone4ever.