"Go there with your jerk-off band."

That, for me, is still one of the funniest of all Keith quotes.

Underground Garage just played Put Me in the Trash. Sounded great and I turned it up loud. Then I went to the 1993 Webster Hall gig video. I was there and forgot that I am in the video near the front. Good times.

HBK

I forget where it was, a somewhat recent thread, it might be in this one for all I know, but the Mick tour was viewed solely as a map for the Stones. It might've been this thread, I can't recall.

Keith got mad about Mick going to Australia because... I dunno. Maybe he didn't want to Mick to tour at all. I suppose it could've been perceived as a threat to the Stones if any of Mick's soloing turned into a success.

It was Keith's soloing that was a success in terms of the act of being a solo artist.

Based on what Mick has said, his solo albums were only to do something different. It doesn't seem that they really mean anything to him and as a side product of that BOSS and COOL have aged poorly.

In regard to his rather "toss it" attitude towards his solo albums, SPIRIT is a day and night difference in terms of quality and effort. It was also less heavily involved in what was trendy. Instead of making a whole album trendy, he only did one song.

COOL was pretty much that way. The biggest difference is the one on COOL sucks. And it was a lousy trend to begin with.

All very interesting.

I missed some of the real-time drama of this at the time, because I became a Stones fan in 1989, though I did have that Jacksons "Victory" album as a 10 year-old and thusly, 'State of Shock' may have been my introduction to Jagger, oddly enough. I actually don't recall the moment I became aware of him. You'd think I would, being an obsessed Stones fan now for decades.

Some of the recent posts about "Primitive Cool" being a lesser product are also interesting. Certainly it didn't do well, and much like "She's the Boss" it sounds dated today, but I actually like "She's the Boss" and "Primitive Cool" more than the much praised "Wandering Spirit". "She's the Boss" and "Primitive Cool" sound more like albums that the Stones wouldn't do, and thusly feel like more interesting solo ventures than "Wandering Spirit" which feels more like it's trying to have more of a Stones vibe. The WS similarity to a Stones album, for me, brings into focus that the other guys aren't there and makes it feel a little flat. And then "Goddess in the Doorway"...well, I sold that CD years ago, along with SuperHeavy. "The Very Best Of" album was a nice mix of everything and I probably go to that more than any one album in his solo work....but if/when I listen to an entire Jagger album, it's more often "She's the Boss" and "Primitive Cool" versus anything else. And the "Ned Kelly" / "Performance" soundtracks! Though of course, it doesn't get more Stonesy sounding for Jagger solo stuff than 'Memo From Turner'

Side note, has anyone bought any of the SHM-CD Japanese Remasters of Jagger's solo albums? Are they an improvement? I still have the original CBS editions of She's the Boss and Primitive Cool and original Atlantic edition of Wandering Spirit.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-01-22 18:58 by floodonthepage.

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Hairball
"But from a purely musical and creative point of view, I found it strange. Why are we playing all these Stones songs? This is your solo career".


Yep, gotta agree with Simon Phillips - he has the integrity that Mick was lacking at the time.

Really? Keith sounded like a spoiled kid who had absolutely no understanding at all for someone else to do something like that. And all this nonsense about Mick playing this or that...come on. But when Keith did Stones songs on his tour it was ok because he sang it on the albums. Thanks for the laugh.

Thanks for the comments from Simon Phillips. Confirms a lot of things.

....awwww well The Stones did get back into Japan ....



ROCKMAN

Mick was so prolific:

Undercover (1983)
She's the Boss (1985)
Dirty Work (1986)
Primitive Cool (1987)
Steel Wheels (1989)
Wandering Spirit (1993)
Voodoo Lounge (1994)
Bridges (1997)
Doorway (2000)
Alfie (2004)
Bang (2005)

11 studio albums in 22 years, plus some odds and sods.

I can't believe that in the *16* years since, all we've gotten is SuperHeavy, England Lost/Get A Grip, and Doom & Gloom.

He's got to have a ton of stuff in the warehouse.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-01-22 23:05 by Send It To me.

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wonderboy
Thanks for the comments from Simon Phillips. Confirms a lot of things.

Yes it does.

"This was at the end of 1986. We were trying to put a band together with Jeff, [bassist] Doug Wimbish, myself, and Mick.
We started rehearsing. I used to have a rehearsal tape of that band, but it unfortunately went in the fire. It sounded amazing, but Mick didn’t want that.
He wanted the dancing girls and the singers. It was a bit of a shame. And Jeff didn’t really want to do that, so they parted company". - Simon Phillips

Yeah a bit of a shame indeed...the dancing girls and the singers at the expense of a great sounding band.
What was Mick thinking?

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-01-22 23:44 by Hairball.

I think Lisa and Bernard were/are great, but Keith made too many concessions to Mick for the 1989 tour, including backup singers and a synth/keyboard guy. He did get Bobby Keys back in the band, though.

Keith and Ronnie and Jeff Beck should have had an intervention with Mick and really layed it out for him.

Bobby was back permanently for the last part of the 81 tour and on.

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bobo

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Hairball
"But from a purely musical and creative point of view, I found it strange. Why are we playing all these Stones songs? This is your solo career".


Yep, gotta agree with Simon Phillips - he has the integrity that Mick was lacking at the time.

Really? Keith sounded like a spoiled kid who had absolutely no understanding at all for someone else to do something like that. And all this nonsense about Mick playing this or that...come on. But when Keith did Stones songs on his tour it was ok because he sang it on the albums. Thanks for the laugh.

Keith's shows were mostly solo songs. Mick... mostly Stones songs. Regardless that you think Keith sounded like a spoiled kid, facts are facts.

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GasLightStreet

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rollmops
If Mick played that many Stones songs in the big places in Japan during his solo tour, it was to make sure the audience would go crazy therefore help make his tour successful. Without those very wellknown songs, I don't think the shows would have sold as well as they did. Maybe I am wrong but it seems that Mick did not take a chance; he played safe in regard of the setlist pleasing musically the paying audience rather than himself. I am tempted to say Mick was not crazy during that tour in Japan, although he was the night he decided to walk through the audience to get to the stage!
Rockandroll,
Mops

The difference between Mick and Keith's solo careers is huge. Simon Phillips nailed it:

From my point of view, when we started playing shows in Japan, half the set was Stones songs. I felt, “What’s the point? Why do that? This is a chance for you to do something different, a solo project. Why not do it solo? Yes, play smaller places, sure. But wouldn’t it actually have a more of a test of time to that?”

Unless, of course, this was part of a master plan to get the Stones into Japan.

In order to sell 50000 tickets Mick Jagger knew that playing Rolling Stones song was the only way. Imagine him not playing Stone's songs at all, only songs from his solo records that most people did not know. It is strange that the drummer does not understand that playing a stadium requires a more commercial set list.
Rockandroll,
Mops

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bobo

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Hairball
"But from a purely musical and creative point of view, I found it strange. Why are we playing all these Stones songs? This is your solo career".


Yep, gotta agree with Simon Phillips - he has the integrity that Mick was lacking at the time.

Really? Keith sounded like a spoiled kid who had absolutely no understanding at all for someone else to do something like that. And all this nonsense about Mick playing this or that...come on. But when Keith did Stones songs on his tour it was ok because he sang it on the albums. Thanks for the laugh.

Keith is the biggest hypocrite when it comes to what Mick does as a solo-musician. People tend to excuse him for that when actually he does pretty much the same. I heard people thought it was funny when Keith threw insults at musucians who were playing with Mick. Well, it was not funny, it was mean and rude.

I agree with Mariuana i love keith and his solo work (which i find is better than micks but i like most of mick's stuff to) but he can be such an ass the way he craps on other musicians and bands and he has done as far i know since the early 70's sometimes it seems like resonable critisicm other times its just plain mean, rude and sadly seems to be designed to draw attention to him and his work and away from other artists

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ProfessorWolf
I agree with Mariuana i love keith and his solo work (which i find is better than micks but i like most of mick's stuff to) but he can be such an ass the way he craps on other musicians and bands and he has done as far i know since the early 70's sometimes it seems like resonable critisicm other times its just plain mean, rude and sadly seems to be designed to draw attention to him and his work and away from other artists

They all (The Stones) have been saying bad things about other musicians throughout. Mick as well. I remember an interview in the 80s where Mick was laughing of Duran Duran, for instance

Mick Jagger never criticised Keith's or anybodies music. I respect that a lot. Smart guy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-01-23 22:25 by TheflyingDutchman.

i know but what gets me is the way keith (and the others to a degree) seems to so rudely put down other musisians to draw attention to himself
and i know it kind of comes with the business but it never quite sits well with me

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TheflyingDutchman
Mick Jagger never criticised Keith's or anybodies music. I respect that a lot. Smart guy.

The first thing Mick said about Talk Is Cheap was "the drummer is way too loud in the mix"

And the Duran Duran-thing was about their music.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-01-23 22:56 by DandelionPowderman.

Still a different attitude than Keith.

I think Mick used the names of Jeff Beck and the other great musicians to get attention and credibility but didn't plan to really tap into their talents.
I get that he didn't want to create a new band because that would have really torpedoed the Stones. Would have been more upfront to hire a bunch of unknown, session men.

Well, "the drummer is way too loud" and "go there with your jerk-off team" is not the same. You don't have to insult people when you think the drums are loud, do you.

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rollmops

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GasLightStreet

Quote
rollmops
If Mick played that many Stones songs in the big places in Japan during his solo tour, it was to make sure the audience would go crazy therefore help make his tour successful. Without those very wellknown songs, I don't think the shows would have sold as well as they did. Maybe I am wrong but it seems that Mick did not take a chance; he played safe in regard of the setlist pleasing musically the paying audience rather than himself. I am tempted to say Mick was not crazy during that tour in Japan, although he was the night he decided to walk through the audience to get to the stage!
Rockandroll,
Mops

The difference between Mick and Keith's solo careers is huge. Simon Phillips nailed it:

From my point of view, when we started playing shows in Japan, half the set was Stones songs. I felt, “What’s the point? Why do that? This is a chance for you to do something different, a solo project. Why not do it solo? Yes, play smaller places, sure. But wouldn’t it actually have a more of a test of time to that?”

Unless, of course, this was part of a master plan to get the Stones into Japan.

In order to sell 50000 tickets Mick Jagger knew that playing Rolling Stones song was the only way. Imagine him not playing Stone's songs at all, only songs from his solo records that most people did not know. It is strange that the drummer does not understand that playing a stadium requires a more commercial set list.
Rockandroll,
Mops

Ah, yes, 50,000 tickets. Because playing a smaller venue was beneath him.

But. Nowhere was zero Rolling Stones songs mentioned, and the observation was 'what about the solo songs?' to which it was about a 16 to 9 count of Stones vs solo songs. And I can easily imagine a Mick Jagger solo show with zero Rolling Stones songs.

In a club or a theatre. Where it would make sense.

Speaking of Jagger's solo works...

Has anyone bought any of the SHM-CD Japanese Remasters of Jagger's solo albums? Are they an improvement? I still have the original CBS editions of She's the Boss and Primitive Cool and original Atlantic edition of Wandering Spirit.

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Mariuana

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bobo

Quote
Hairball
"But from a purely musical and creative point of view, I found it strange. Why are we playing all these Stones songs? This is your solo career".


Yep, gotta agree with Simon Phillips - he has the integrity that Mick was lacking at the time.

Really? Keith sounded like a spoiled kid who had absolutely no understanding at all for someone else to do something like that. And all this nonsense about Mick playing this or that...come on. But when Keith did Stones songs on his tour it was ok because he sang it on the albums. Thanks for the laugh.

Keith is the biggest hypocrite when it comes to what Mick does as a solo-musician. People tend to excuse him for that when actually he does pretty much the same. I heard people thought it was funny when Keith threw insults at musucians who were playing with Mick. Well, it was not funny, it was mean and rude.

Keith never wanted to do music outside of the Stones. When Mick did it, it was a slap in the face to Keith, so he lashed out (albeit immaturely). So it wasn't being a hypocrite, Keith saw it as his only response, to do his own albums, as it looked like Mick was trying for a solo career.

well, the tragic aspect (from Jagger's point of view) is that all his attempts to put on a solo career failed (does anyone remember Superheavy?) and he had to realize that he depends on Keith Richards to find a (mass) audience.
Keith Richards on the other hand doesn't seem to give a damm how many people enjoy his solo stuff. It always seemed to be that he's fine with or without large crowds, with or without Jagger, with or without chart topping songs, with or without his music being played in discos/clubs etc. Therefore he's so much more relaxed than poor Mick Jagger…

Ithink Mick's best solo songsare great. .But I think too much of it just sounds like Stones' songs without Keith. I think Mick wanted to experiment more with his solo music but never went far enough because he wanted to also sell cds. Would like to have seen him experiment more with electronic music. Maybe have collaborated with the likes of Eno and Robert Fripplike Bowie . I think the reason there has not been a Rolling Stones album in 16 years is that Mick and Keith cannot agree in what direction to go. Albums or cds do not make money as opposed to live shows.Iloved the Stones and Mick collaborating with the Chieftains. Would not mind Rolling Stones doing more Irish music. Ithink Ronnie would be great at it

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slewan
well, the tragic aspect (from Jagger's point of view) is that all his attempts to put on a solo career failed (does anyone remember Superheavy?) …

To me, Superheavy is Mick's best album (although it is not really a solo album) ... I love it!

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TheflyingDutchman
Mick Jagger never criticised Keith's or anybodies music. I respect that a lot. Smart guy.

Agree. Mick has taken so much immature bullshit from Keith in the press over the years, but has acted like the bigger man of them when not responding to it in the media. Respect.

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bobo

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TheflyingDutchman
Mick Jagger never criticised Keith's or anybodies music. I respect that a lot. Smart guy.

Agree. Mick has taken so much immature bullshit from Keith in the press over the years, but has acted like the bigger man of them when not responding to it in the media. Respect.

of course, except for: [freemontsoffice.com]
(staring around 00:45)