Great lyrics.

I love Winning Ugly. Good tune, good lyrics, great guitar work. I find dear old Gas Light's antipathy towards the song utterly baffling

Winning ugly?

I do not know what this thread is about.


This song has been attributed to the RS but this is fake news. You may think that this song exists but in my DW vinyl this song does not appear.

Think I'm alone in thinking there are a few great tracks on Dirty Work, Winning Ugly isn't one of them.

It's very much like most of Micks first solo album, I think Winning Ugly belongs on She's The Boss.

Enough said.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2021-11-02 22:40 by Rocktiludrop.

Quote
emotionalbarbecue
Winning ugly?

I do not know what this thread is about.


This song has been attributed to the RS but this is fake news. You may think that this song exists but in my DW vinyl this song does not appear.

Huh? I'm lost?

Your talking about some song on some supposed Stones album that does not exist. The album you reference may be attributed to the RS but this is fake news. You make think this album exists, but in my RS vinyl collection this album does not appear (with or without the red cellophane).

Winning Ugly

The song has been played live, by Mick in 1988, in reference to the original post.

The widely bootlegged demo version showed some promise which the extended mixes built upon. Pity the album track and 45 missed out on the fact that the track had some swing to it buried underneath the seemingly deliberate veneer of ugliness.

It was an odd time. Keith was quoted in December 1985 (four months before it was released) as claiming his peers were coming up to him asking how he played that amazing opening riff. Where? Who? Was it something Muddy Waters said while painting the "goddamn ceiling" at Chess in 1964 because he was no longer the #1 selling pop star in America?

Charlie had said this album and UNDERCOVER were ones he didn't play on much because of his drinking and drug problem. Of course now, the official word is Sly Dunbar and Mick on UNDERCOVER and the three professional studio drummers plus Ronnie on DIRTY WORK weren't playing drums, it was all Charlie except for a bit of percussion or maybe they liked hiring studio drummers to sing back-up.

As for picking on "Winning Ugly" as having the worst lyrics...seriously? On an album where "George grasped the nettle, it's do or dare, from the banks of the Delaware" is supposed to get by just because Mick turns Delaware into four syllables.

Why not focus on how the song prefigures "Ruthless People" or how it could just as easily have been the theme song of that film? How about the fact that it and "Back to Zero" make a better 45 than "One Hit (to the Body)" and "Fight?" Nobody?

Rough crowd. I leave you to enjoy "Gotta Get a Grip" and "Easy Sleazy."

I just tried to be ironic. I dislike it so much...that I prefer not to consider it as a stones song.
I should have followed my english teacher's advise: never try to be funny in a language that is not yours....

Quote
Rocky Dijon
The song has been played live, by Mick in 1988, in reference to the original post.

The widely bootlegged demo version showed some promise which the extended mixes built upon. Pity the album track and 45 missed out on the fact that the track had some swing to it buried underneath the seemingly deliberate veneer of ugliness.

It was an odd time. Keith was quoted in December 1985 (four months before it was released) as claiming his peers were coming up to him asking how he played that amazing opening riff. Where? Who? Was it something Muddy Waters said while painting the "goddamn ceiling" at Chess in 1964 because he was no longer the #1 selling pop star in America?

Charlie had said this album and UNDERCOVER were ones he didn't play on much because of his drinking and drug problem. Of course now, the official word is Sly Dunbar and Mick on UNDERCOVER and the three professional studio drummers plus Ronnie on DIRTY WORK weren't playing drums, it was all Charlie except for a bit of percussion or maybe they liked hiring studio drummers to sing back-up.

As for picking on "Winning Ugly" as having the worst lyrics...seriously? On an album where "George grasped the nettle, it's do or dare, from the banks of the Delaware" is supposed to get by just because Mick turns Delaware into four syllables.

Why not focus on how the song prefigures "Ruthless People" or how it could just as easily have been the theme song of that film? How about the fact that it and "Back to Zero" make a better 45 than "One Hit (to the Body)" and "Fight?" Nobody?

Rough crowd. I leave you to enjoy "Gotta Get a Grip" and "Easy Sleazy."

Nice to see you posting more than just a couple of times recently, Rocky Dijon.

To me "One Hit (to the Body)" and even more "Fight" are the two least likeable songs on the highly moderate DIRTY WORK album. I find no great songs on that album, but to me, as said on thread page 2, "Winning Ugly" is a good song, while I may add that "Back to Zero" is no favourite of mine, but still acceptable. Each time that I listen to DIRTY WORK, I start to some extent to enjoy it when I have finished the first two songs of the album. Well, "Hold Back" is a somewhat clumsy song with even more clumsy lyrics, but to me better played.

By the way, I do like " Gotta Get a Grip" (and "England Lost"). "Easy Sleazy" I have heard only twice under unfavourable conditions, without reaching a judgement of the song.

Edit: Correction of a song title.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-11-03 09:18 by Witness.

I have affection for Dirty Work. It was the first "new" Stones album I ever bought, complete with the red wrapping. I've always liked Winning Ugly. I think it's a strong, multifaceted song.

It's a shame that Mick and Keith were warring so much at the time. You always have to wonder what a song like Winning Ugly would would like had they been working together instead of so at-odds.

Quote
Rocky Dijon
The song has been played live, by Mick in 1988, in reference to the original post.

The widely bootlegged demo version showed some promise which the extended mixes built upon. Pity the album track and 45 missed out on the fact that the track had some swing to it buried underneath the seemingly deliberate veneer of ugliness.

It was an odd time. Keith was quoted in December 1985 (four months before it was released) as claiming his peers were coming up to him asking how he played that amazing opening riff. Where? Who? Was it something Muddy Waters said while painting the "goddamn ceiling" at Chess in 1964 because he was no longer the #1 selling pop star in America?

Charlie had said this album and UNDERCOVER were ones he didn't play on much because of his drinking and drug problem. Of course now, the official word is Sly Dunbar and Mick on UNDERCOVER and the three professional studio drummers plus Ronnie on DIRTY WORK weren't playing drums, it was all Charlie except for a bit of percussion or maybe they liked hiring studio drummers to sing back-up.

As for picking on "Winning Ugly" as having the worst lyrics...seriously? On an album where "George grasped the nettle, it's do or dare, from the banks of the Delaware" is supposed to get by just because Mick turns Delaware into four syllables.

Why not focus on how the song prefigures "Ruthless People" or how it could just as easily have been the theme song of that film? How about the fact that it and "Back to Zero" make a better 45 than "One Hit (to the Body)" and "Fight?" Nobody?

Rough crowd. I leave you to enjoy "Gotta Get a Grip" and "Easy Sleazy."

I would take those two songs over Winning Ugly/Back to Zero/Fight any day. ANY day I tell ya!

Quote
Stoneage



Winning Ugly

The song is getting better and better. Change the sound of the bass (maybe someone on the IORR forum can overdub the bass?) and you got a winner (no pun intended).

The fact that this bad song (maybe their worst ever along with Back to zero) is being re-evaluated indicates that we may be at the end of the world!!

Quote
Stoneage
I can think of a few "winning ugly" teams: Leeds and Philadelphia Flyers in the seventies. And a few "winning ugly" players too.

And my beloved Arsenal under George Graham, those were the days, Tuesday Club an' all.

As for Winning Ugly it's a great tune, but I have always interpreted the lyrics as it is about a man who comes to terms with the fact that he has hurt a lot of chicks along the way and despite feeling good the angst and regret is creeping in.

Quote
MadMax

Quote
Stoneage
I can think of a few "winning ugly" teams: Leeds and Philadelphia Flyers in the seventies. And a few "winning ugly" players too.

And my beloved Arsenal under George Graham, those were the days, Tuesday Club an' all.

As for Winning Ugly it's a great tune, but I have always interpreted the lyrics as it is about a man who comes to terms with the fact that he has hurt a lot of chicks along the way and despite feeling good the angst and regret is creeping in.

It should be retitled, "Writing Ugly".

Quote
treaclefingers

Quote
Rocky Dijon
The song .......

............

How about the fact that it and "Back to Zero" make a better 45 than "One Hit (to the Body)" and "F...ight?" Nobody?

Rough crowd. I leave you to enjoy "Gotta Get a Grip" and "Easy Sleazy."

I would take those two songs over Winning Ugly/Back to Zero/Fight any day. ANY day I tell ya!

With your post, treacle, you did not answer Rocky Dijon's question in the comparison between pairs of songs in bold in the first quote.

I like it. However, the production is dreadful.

Quote
Witness

Quote
treaclefingers

Quote
Rocky Dijon
The song .......

............

How about the fact that it and "Back to Zero" make a better 45 than "One Hit (to the Body)" and "F...ight?" Nobody?

Rough crowd. I leave you to enjoy "Gotta Get a Grip" and "Easy Sleazy."

I would take those two songs over Winning Ugly/Back to Zero/Fight any day. ANY day I tell ya!

With your post, treacle, you did not answer Rocky Dijon's question in the comparison between pairs of songs in bold in the first quote.

Fair enough. If you're forcing me to make a choice as to which pair of turds I prefer, I'll go with the OHTHB/Fight turd combo.

Quote
treaclefingers

Quote
Witness

Quote
treaclefingers

Quote
Rocky Dijon
The song .......

............

How about the fact that it and "Back to Zero" make a better 45 than "One Hit (to the Body)" and "F...ight?" Nobody?

Rough crowd. I leave you to enjoy "Gotta Get a Grip" and "Easy Sleazy."

I would take those two songs over Winning Ugly/Back to Zero/Fight any day. ANY day I tell ya!

With your post, treacle, you did not answer Rocky Dijon's question in the comparison between pairs of songs in bold in the first quote.

Fair enough. If you're forcing me to make a choice as to which pair of turds I prefer, I'll go with the OHTHB/Fight turd combo.

Readily answered at once, impressive.

Quote
Witness

Quote
treaclefingers

Quote
Witness

Quote
treaclefingers

Quote
Rocky Dijon
The song .......

............

How about the fact that it and "Back to Zero" make a better 45 than "One Hit (to the Body)" and "F...ight?" Nobody?

Rough crowd. I leave you to enjoy "Gotta Get a Grip" and "Easy Sleazy."

I would take those two songs over Winning Ugly/Back to Zero/Fight any day. ANY day I tell ya!

With your post, treacle, you did not answer Rocky Dijon's question in the comparison between pairs of songs in bold in the first quote.

Fair enough. If you're forcing me to make a choice as to which pair of turds I prefer, I'll go with the OHTHB/Fight turd combo.

Readily answered at once, impressive.

I aim to please.

Just listening to the She Was Hot picture disk. NEVER listened to that picture disk before.

I gotta say, sounds fantastic...fresh.

That and Undercover are better than ANYTHING on Dirty Work.

Mea culpa while we're at it.

I do own Dirty Work, sealed an unsealed Vinyl copies and copies of various 12" singles including Winning Ugly and a Winning Ugly 45.

Doesn't mean I like it though!

Miles better than anything from ABB (talking about the london mix)

Quote
treaclefingers

I aim to please.

Just listening to the She Was Hot picture disk. NEVER listened to that picture disk before.

I gotta say, sounds fantastic...fresh.

That and Undercover are better than ANYTHING on Dirty Work.

Sure, not the right thread for it, but I will go so far as to say that everything on the album UNDERCOVER is better than anything on DIRTY WORK (only reservation, thinkably "Wanna Hold You").

I don't know that picture disk. Apparently it also contains "I think I'm Going Mad". Is it another version of "She Was Hot"? If you want to comment on that, may be you'd better do it in the track talk thread for "She Was Hot".

[Edit: "I think I'm Going Mad", I have got as a B-side of the maxi "She Was Hot", where I think the latter is identical with the album track. It is not a picture disc though.]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-11-03 18:59 by Witness.

Quote
Witness


I don't know that picture disk. Apparently it also contains "I think I'm Going Mad". Is it another version of "She Was Hot"? If you want to comment on that, may be you'd better do it in the track talk thread for "She Was Hot".

While we are at it, I think "Think I'm Going Mad" (it is a song of its own) is better than anything on UNDERCOVER and DIRTY WORK (although "Undercover of The Night" and "She Was Hot" come close). A true lost gem.

- Doxa

Quote
Doxa
While we are at it, I think "Think I'm Going Mad" (it is a song of its own) is better than anything on UNDERCOVER and DIRTY WORK (although "Undercover of The Night" and "She Was Hot" come close). A true lost gem.

- Doxa

I agree so far as " I Think I'm Going Mad" is on par with almost anything on UNDERCOVER, with only a few exceptions. Better than anything on TATTOO YOU, apart from "Waiting on a Friend". So, yes, it is a gem.

Despite owning Dirty Work for years, recently, I listened to it in its entirety - possibly for the first time, ever and, actually, Esther enjoyed it. Certainly, it’s poor in comparison to their better works, but it certainly isn’t a bad album. Winning Ugly, I actually like. Yes, I was - gasp! - a little presently surprised.

Quote
Big Al
Despite owning Dirty Work for years, recently, I listened to it in its entirety - possibly for the first time, ever and, actually, Esther enjoyed it. Certainly, it’s poor in comparison to their better works, but it certainly isn’t a bad album. Winning Ugly, I actually like. Yes, I was - gasp! - a little presently surprised.

Yes, it is a "bad" album, sorry! I can see the word catchy in describing Winning Ugly, there is some catchiness, but its still a bad song, no way around it. If catchiness was a criteria for good, then I'd be listening to Tears for Fears.

Quote
LeonidP

Quote
Big Al
Despite owning Dirty Work for years, recently, I listened to it in its entirety - possibly for the first time, ever and, actually, Esther enjoyed it. Certainly, it’s poor in comparison to their better works, but it certainly isn’t a bad album. Winning Ugly, I actually like. Yes, I was - gasp! - a little presently surprised.

Yes, it is a "bad" album, sorry! I can see the word catchy in describing Winning Ugly, there is some catchiness, but its still a bad song, no way around it. If catchiness was a criteria for good, then I'd be listening to Tears for Fears.

hahahaha...post of the day!

Quote
Witness

Quote
treaclefingers

I aim to please.

Just listening to the She Was Hot picture disk. NEVER listened to that picture disk before.

I gotta say, sounds fantastic...fresh.

That and Undercover are better than ANYTHING on Dirty Work.

Sure, not the right thread for it, but I will go so far as to say that everything on the album UNDERCOVER is better than anything on DIRTY WORK (only reservation, thinkably "Wanna Hold You").

I don't know that picture disk. Apparently it also contains "I think I'm Going Mad". Is it another version of "She Was Hot"? If you want to comment on that, may be you'd better do it in the track talk thread for "She Was Hot".

[Edit: "I think I'm Going Mad", I have got as a B-side of the maxi "She Was Hot", where I think the latter is identical with the album track. It is not a picture disc though.]

Yeah, same version and I Think I'm Going Mad is the b-side. It was the shaped tongue 45 with the naked girl/melting candle on the flip side. Came out in 1984 at the same time that Brown Sugar came out as a picture disk, the Sticky Fingers cover. I'd never actually listened to either picture disk before.

Quote
Witness

Quote
Doxa
While we are at it, I think "Think I'm Going Mad" (it is a song of its own) is better than anything on UNDERCOVER and DIRTY WORK (although "Undercover of The Night" and "She Was Hot" come close). A true lost gem.

- Doxa

I agree so far as " I Think I'm Going Mad" is on par with almost anything on UNDERCOVER, with only a few exceptions. Better than anything on TATTOO YOU, apart from "Waiting on a Friend". So, yes, it is a gem.

Good song, maybe great song. Maybe it would have fit on Tattoo You. But I wouldn't say it's better than anything on side 2, and I'm pretty partial to most of Undercover.

It's a bit too AOR for my taste...maybe the saxophone?