LOL by the way: "Ruby Mazur - The Artist Behind the Iconic Rolling Stones Logo" -- "Mazur has created some amazing graphics but his most famous creation was the 'Mouth & Tongue' designed for The Rolling Stones originally used on the 'Tumbling Dice' record sleeve." - [www.YouTube.com] - (22-Dec-2016) , [www.FoxNews.com] - (5-Apr-2016).



Yes, but the Tumbling Dice-Single was released on 14-Apr-1972 - and it has nothing to do with the original logos created in 1970/71 (by John Pasche, re-drawn by Craig Braun Inc).

But people not aware of the RS-timeline would probably believe the press-headlines and think that Ruby Mazur was in general the creator of the Rolling Stones logo.

Hi Irix,
just some examples:
During 1948-1951 the Cobra (art) movement introduced the mouth with tongue image.





Also, an example of a Kali:

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georgie48

During 1948-1951 the Cobra (art) movement introduced the mouth with tongue image.

They must have been influenced by him



This photo was taken in Princeton on his 72nd Birthday (14-March-1951).

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Irix

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georgie48

During 1948-1951 the Cobra (art) movement introduced the mouth with tongue image.

They must have been influenced by him



This photo was taken in Princeton on his 72nd Birthday (14-March-1951).

I think he must have been a secret member of the Cobra Movement, because their image dates back to 1948

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georgie48

I think he must have been a secret member of the Cobra Movement, because their image dates back to 1948

But if I search after the CoBrA Art-Movement almost nothing comes up regarding Mouth & Tongue. It must be rather seldom. Google finds no Credits for the CoBrA-pictures as shown in your post above.

There's only a Blog "Cobra and the tongue" (2014): [EstherSchreuder.Wordpress.com] . And there's no proof for 1948 (but A. Einstein was quoted in that Blog too).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-28 22:30 by Irix.

No capital letters, just Cobra. And terms like catalogue, movement, magazine 4, museum should get you there.
There is a Cobra Museum in Anstelveen (Netherlands). I'm going to check if they are not closed because of the corona regulations and if not I will visit the place at some point (off course first of all the Unzipped exhibition in Groningen). I think the exact issue date of Magazine 4 will be registered there.

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georgie48

I think the exact issue date of Magazine 4 will be registered there.

No, we need the exact dates when & by whom the CoBrA-pictures in your post above were taken (or the Artwork was done). I had already seen pictures of the Magazine 4 but there were no Credits.

Btw: "Kali is first mentioned in Hindu tradition as a distinct goddess around 600 AD" - [en.Wikipedia.org] . So, the (artistic) depiction of a protruding tongue is probably much much older than the CoBrA-artwork.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-29 09:45 by Irix.

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Irix

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georgie48

I think the exact issue date of Magazine 4 will be registered there.

No, we need the exact dates when & by whom the CoBrA-pictures in your post above were taken. I had already seen pictures of the Magazine 4 but there were no Credits.

Btw: "Kali is first mentioned in Hindu tradition as a distinct goddess around 600 AD" - [en.Wikipedia.org] . So, the depiction of a protruding tongue is probably much much older than the CoBrA-artwork.

Absolutely! I did send my youngest daughter to the city library many years ago to borrow books on Hindu religion and read fascinating stories. There are quite a few interpretations of who Kali was/is, so that alone can be a story on its own.

The info you want on the "modern day" cobra image is hopefully available in the museum. When I placed a request on Internet, again many years ago, for info on the b/w Cobra version, I never got a response. A tough cookie, I would say.

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Irix
Here's Alan Aldridge's (unused) artwork for The Rolling Stones Rock and Roll Circus :


[DebutArt.Tumblr.com] · Large picture


Proof-print designed by Alan Aldridge for a planned 1975 album release that never materialized - [www.JuliensLive.com] · Large picture


Proof-print designed by Alan Aldridge for a planned 1975 album release that never materialized - [www.JuliensLive.com] · Large picture

Hi Irix,
Still wondering about the Alan Aldridge - Rolling Stones relation ...
Seeing the designs for a never released 1975 record of the Rolling Stones Rock and Roll Circus music again, I looked at Aldridge's designs a bit closer. Originally (I only knew the guitar-tiger image at that time) I thought it was designed in 1968/1969. But seeing the tongue sticking out from the guitar-tiger's mouth I thought that it may have been inspired by the logo. Hence 1975. Off course no proof of that year. But Bill Wyman's archive is pretty accurate, so ... 1975
Possibly author rights were not set properly yet (all the different artists contributing) by ABKCO or disagreements with the Stones ??? ABKCO trying to sneak in the post-ABKCO Stones logo one way or the other?
I'm still intrigued by the Stones-Pasche-Braun-Aldridge "connection". They may still be something hanging in the air ...
By the way, which country do you live?

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georgie48

Hence 1975. Off course no proof of that year. But Bill Wyman's archive is pretty accurate, so ... 1975

The Proof-prints are from the 'Music Icons' Auction #3261 (Lot 831) which took place 19-Jun-2020: [www.JuliensLive.com] . The Proof-prints were sold for $2,880 and are described to come from the collection of former Decca executive Alan Stecker - [www.JuliensLive.com] . Regarding my country: it's in your direct neighborhood, where the Waal is called Rijn.

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Irix

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georgie48

Hence 1975. Off course no proof of that year. But Bill Wyman's archive is pretty accurate, so ... 1975

The Proof-prints are from the 'Music Icons' Auction #3261 (Lot 831) which took place 19-Jun-2020: [www.JuliensLive.com] . The Proof-prints were sold for $2,880 and are described to come from the collection of former Decca executive Alan Stecker - [www.JuliensLive.com] . Regarding my country: it's in your direct neighborhood, where the Waal is called Rijn.

Ah, that explains it. DECCA-London-ABKCO (Klein). To me this means that Alan Aldridge was commisioned by any of that group. So possibly no professional relation between the Stones and Aldridge after all. Mmm, interesting.
Two fans from the land of glocks, windmills and Anton Geesink (and the Rijn delta) digging in the history of the all famous and beloved Rolling Stones logo
Were you at the 2004 Kurhaus 1964 Revival event?

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georgie48

Were you at the 2004 Kurhaus 1964 Revival event?

No, because I meant the other side of the Rijn, where it's spoken & written 'Rhein' ....

But I was at 'A Bigger Bang', 8-Jun-2007 in Goffert Park, Nijmegen. And I was looking forward to see Paul McCartney in the same place in 2020 (unfortunately cancelled due to the pandemic). Still hoping that also the Stones will play again at Goffert Park.

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georgie48

I'm still intrigued by the Stones-Pasche-Braun-Aldridge "connection".

Maybe [www.RonnieSchneider.com] knows more about it? He was also the one who gave some years ago here on IORR the hint about the similarity between Alan Aldridge's Day-Tripper-illustration and the Stones-logo.

Okay!
Yes, Goffert Park 2007, Van the Man washed off the stage, intense communication with KNMI (Dutch weather forecast center), the Stones started a minute after the rain had stopped, great concert! I saw the Stones many times in Germany, latest was Düsseldorf 2014. Most exciting: Cirkus Krone, München 2003! Oberhausen with AC/DC was great too!
I hope your wish comes true.

Decoration from a German TV-Show, similar to 'The Masked Singer', where a star performs in a costume (here dressed as Mick Jagger) and the jury guesses who the star under the mask might be - [iorr.org] .

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Irix
LOL by the way: "Ruby Mazur - The Artist Behind the Iconic Rolling Stones Logo" -- "Mazur has created some amazing graphics but his most famous creation was the 'Mouth & Tongue' designed for The Rolling Stones originally used on the 'Tumbling Dice' record sleeve." - [www.YouTube.com] - (22-Dec-2016) , [www.FoxNews.com] - (5-Apr-2016).



Yes, but the Tumbling Dice-Single was released on 14-Apr-1972 - and it has nothing to do with the original logos created in 1970/71 (by John Pasche, re-drawn by Craig Braun Inc).

But people not aware of the RS-timeline would probably believe the press-headlines and think that Ruby Mazur was in general the creator of the Rolling Stones logo.

That is ridiculous. Was it really famous? In regard to The Rolling Stones, no. It was used strictly for the singles, and how many? Not many, right? Maybe it's just worded in such a way to gain search engine attention.

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Irix
Hand-painted RS-Logo artwork by John Pasche:

Gouache paint & pencil on heavy weight 250 g/m art paper, size A3 (11.5"x16.5") painted and signed in pencil by John Pasche. Each sketch is unique due to being painted individually (incl. a signed letter of authenticity).

£750.00 (incl. postage & packaging in presentation box).


[www.RollingStonesLogo.com] · RS No. 9 Store: [www.Carnaby.co.uk]

I guess that I should have bought this when it was 750 UKP. Now, it costs 1500 UKP (it even did cost 3000 UKP for a few days recently!)

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folon

I guess that I should have bought this when it was 750 UKP.

You could also try it in the RS-No9-Carnaby-Store:


[www.Instagram.com] · [iorr.org]

From [www.Volkskrant.nl] :

Mick Jagger knew what he wanted: a simple, captivating image.



Interview Designer John Pasche

By Jeroen Junte, 12 November 2020, 18:48

John Pasche, the designer of The Rolling Stones' Tongue and Lips logo. The most stylish rock band in the world also owns the very best band logo, designed by John Pasche fifty years ago. The outstretched tongue is now the heart of the Rolling Stones exhibition in Groningen.

Fifty pounds, just 55 euros. That's what is paid in 1970 for the design of Tongue & Lips, the world famous band logo of The Rolling Stones. A logo whose value can hardly be expressed in monetary terms nowadays: the income from merchandise alone amounts to hundreds of millions of euros. Quite apart from the significance that the stimulating illustration has had for the reputation of the Stones. It is the only band logo that can compete in terms of fame with the logo of multinationals, such as Apple's apple, Nike's woosh and McDonald's' M.

But the logo is also surrounded by misunderstandings. First of all, it is not the lips of Stones foreman Mick Jagger that we see. Nor is the logo made by Andy Warhol, as is often assumed. Although the American artist did play an important role in the breakthrough of this pop-cultural icon. And why are there actually two versions of the design in circulation?

It started in 1970, with a noncommittal phone call to the Royal College of Art in London. The Stones management wanted to know if the Royal College, then and now the leading art academy in England, could tip off a student who could design a poster for the upcoming European Stones tour. The band was already world famous and had just finished the legendary American tour in November 1969. The successful album Let it Bleed, with the hits You Can't Always Get What You Want and Gimme Shelter, had just been released.

It was then Mick Jagger who personally assessed the proposed students. His choice fell on John Pasche, a 25-year-old graduate student in graphic design. I received the telephone number of Mick Jagger to make an appointment. I thought: I'm being fooled,' says Pasche laughing on the phone from his office in London. But it was him and I were invited to the record company's office. It was Mick who spoke'. The meeting didn't go really smoothly. Mick disapproved of the sketches I had brought with me. He did say: I know you can do better, John. But I thought: I don't hear any more of that.' A month later Jagger hung up again. Could he see anything yet? I remembered the first conversation we both had about classic drawn travel posters from the thirties. So that same year The Rolling Stones toured with Pasche's poster, a nostalgic painting of a cruise ship, a Concorde and a classic limousine. That was my first paid assignment.

Not much later Pasche was summoned back to Jagger's house. Did he have an idea for the logo for the own record label that The Rolling Stones wanted to start? From that moment on I only talked to Mick. The two got along very well. We were just two halfway through our twenties talking about art and photography. Mick clearly knew what he wanted and gave me two references. One was the Shell logo. A captivating image, he loved that. He thought it was simple and effective.

But Jagger also showed a poster of the Indian goddess Kali, which he had borrowed from a corner shop near his house in Chelsea. The ferocious goddess looks terrifying, with eyes wide open and four arms holding a sword and a severed head. Around her neck hang 51 human heads. It was barely a year after the release of the ominous Sympathy for the Devil, an instant classic in the Stones repertoire. But Pasche saw nothing in Jagger's suggestion. It was so dark. At the time it was trendy to use Indian colours and letters. Everyone in London did it. That's just as much fun as ever, I thought.' What did appeal to him was the pointed tongue hanging far out of Kali's mouth. Sticking out your tongue has something anti-authoritarian about it. But it also has something sensational. I knew immediately: that rebellious ambiguity, that's what it is'.

Pasche changed the long pointed tongue in the face of the gods into a full red mouth, more charged with sex appeal than intended as a diabolical statement. Jagger was immediately sold. The association of the logo with Jagger's lips arose only in the following years, a misunderstanding that Pasche tacitly accepted. There is some resemblance,' he says, in impeccable Queen's English.

Pasche worked on the design for barely two weeks, mostly in the evenings. Initially it was only to be used for stationery, catalogues and perhaps the round label on LPs. That's why the briefing was limited to a stand alone-illustration, which had to be immediately recognisable, both large and small'. It is the combination of stylistic simplicity and a catchy symbolism that makes the design - just like the guitar riff of Satisfaction - nestle directly in your brain.

But then there's Andy Warhol. The American artist was asked for the cover of the album Sticky Fingers (1971). That was a cheeky photo of a man's body in tight jeans with a lewd bump in the crotch. The cardboard also contained a working zip. The art director of the American branch of the record company chose Pasche's illustration for the inner cover, which then began to play a more prominent role in the design and on which, for example, song titles were mentioned. That's why many people think that the tongue was designed by Andy Warhol,' says Pasche. Plus that my design does indeed have something of a pop art feel to it. I had seen a Warhol exhibition in London in 1968 and, like any graphic design student at the time, I was a big fan of his work. Once you've seen it, you never forget it'.

Yet it wasn't Pasche's original design that was picked up worldwide by the success of Sticky Fingers, the best Stones album according to pop critics. The inside cover was quite a rush job, so I faxed my design to the record company's office in New York. But that fax was greyish and coarse-grained'. It looked like a sketch. That's why the American art director made a few changes: the tongue became a little narrower and got a white accent and a black throat was added. This modified version was used for the American market. The rest of the world saw my design'.

Fifty years later, Tongue & Lips - or 'the tongue' as Pasche himself says - is without a doubt the best-known band logo of all time. It appears on T-shirts, ashtrays, panties (of course) and, more recently, mouth caps - with a particularly witty effect. The British newspaper The Independent voted 'the tongue' the most famous T-shirt logo ever, even before those with prints of Che Guevara, the Hard Rock Cafe and the smiley. That fifty pounds was skimpy even before then,' laughs the 75-year-old designer. I got 200 pounds for my tour poster.

Although he later received a £200 bonus and royalties between 1976 and 1982, 'enough to buy a sports car from, but nothing more', in 1982 he was more or less forced to relinquish his copyright. My lawyer said I could lose any court case because the Rolling Stones had acquired rights of use after all these years. In that case, I would also have to pay their lawyer's fees, which could be enormous'. So Pasche chose eggs for his money. It earned him a one-off sum of 26 thousand pounds, over 29 thousand euros.

In the meantime, the folds have been smoothed out. On the occasion of the 50th anniversary of the logo, the Stones management gave Pasche permission to sell signed sketches of his design. The only condition is that they must be painted by hand, so that they deviate from the official logo. Maybe they want to make sure I don't sell too many, haha'. He sold the original design drawing to the Victoria & Albert Museum in London in 2008.

Despite the disappointing finances, the logo brought him a lot. Pasche worked for years as art director for various record companies, designing for The Stranglers and Fischer Z, among others. 'And I've just completed the advertisements, posters and other promotional materials for a series of classical concerts at Kew Botanical Gardens in London. I've moved from rock 'n' roll to higher culture'.

The consistent line-up and musical direction of the Stones have been decisive for the success of his logo, according to Pasche. The outstretched tongue is no longer a cash cow, it is the distinguishing mark of The Rolling Stones BV. The skins of the band members become wrinkled and the vocal cords stiffer. But the logo remains fresh. The older it gets, the younger it looks. It represents something that actually no longer exists, also for Pasche: for him it is mainly a reminder of his exciting academic years. A contemporary worked on the drawing board next to me on the cover of Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon, with that beam of light breaking through a prism into a colour curve. Imagine: two iconic images from pop history, made at the same time only a few metres apart'. -- [Twitter.com] .

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GasLightStreet

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Irix

LOL by the way: "Ruby Mazur - The Artist Behind the Iconic Rolling Stones Logo" -- "Mazur has created some amazing graphics but his most famous creation was the 'Mouth & Tongue' designed for The Rolling Stones originally used on the 'Tumbling Dice' record sleeve." - [www.YouTube.com] - (22-Dec-2016) , [www.FoxNews.com] - (5-Apr-2016).



Yes, but the Tumbling Dice-Single was released on 14-Apr-1972 - and it has nothing to do with the original logos created in 1970/71 (by John Pasche, re-drawn by Craig Braun Inc).

But people not aware of the RS-timeline would probably believe the press-headlines and think that Ruby Mazur was in general the creator of the Rolling Stones logo.

That is ridiculous. Was it really famous? In regard to The Rolling Stones, no. It was used strictly for the singles, and how many? Not many, right? Maybe it's just worded in such a way to gain search engine attention.

Ruby Mazur: "In the late ’80s, I was living in New York, going to the clubs and being introduced as the creator of the ‘mouth and tongue’ for the Stones, and then go home to my dumpy apartment. I was balls-off-my-ass broke, having created the most famous logo in the world." - [www.FoxNews.com] . Maybe it's just worded in such a way by Ruby Mazur to gain attention ....


Btw: in 2005 there was a discussion on IORR about "Who designed the famous tongue trademark?" and in 1995 even the Billboard Magazine accidentally believed it was Ruby Mazur - [iorr.org] .



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-04-17 12:40 by Irix.

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Irix

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GasLightStreet

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Irix

LOL by the way: "Ruby Mazur - The Artist Behind the Iconic Rolling Stones Logo" -- "Mazur has created some amazing graphics but his most famous creation was the 'Mouth & Tongue' designed for The Rolling Stones originally used on the 'Tumbling Dice' record sleeve." - [www.YouTube.com] - (22-Dec-2016) , [www.FoxNews.com] - (5-Apr-2016).



Yes, but the Tumbling Dice-Single was released on 14-Apr-1972 - and it has nothing to do with the original logos created in 1970/71 (by John Pasche, re-drawn by Craig Braun Inc).

But people not aware of the RS-timeline would probably believe the press-headlines and think that Ruby Mazur was in general the creator of the Rolling Stones logo.

That is ridiculous. Was it really famous? In regard to The Rolling Stones, no. It was used strictly for the singles, and how many? Not many, right? Maybe it's just worded in such a way to gain search engine attention.

Ruby Mazur: "In the late ’80s, I was living in New York, going to the clubs and being introduced as the creator of the ‘mouth and tongue’ for the Stones, and then go home to my dumpy apartment. I was balls-off-my-ass broke, having created the most famous logo in the world." - [www.FoxNews.com] . Maybe it's just worded in such a way by Ruby Mazur to gain attention ....

Don't pay too much attention to Mazur's nonsence. I was asked to check on him many years ago and like GLS says, he misused his one-time assignment to create a total b*llsh*t story. He's not the only one who lost track of reality and made himself "important".

"having created the most famous logo in the world"

He wouldn't be the first artist to try to steal credit, but I'm surprised that a high profile news outlet would accept his claims without even a cursory Google search. Very strange that anyone would confuse a sleeve design that is obviously a riff on the theme of the logo with the design of the logo itself.

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blivet
"having created the most famous logo in the world"

He wouldn't be the first artist to try to steal credit, but I'm surprised that a high profile news outlet would accept his claims without even a cursory Google search. Very strange that anyone would confuse a sleeve design that is obviously a riff on the theme of the logo with the design of the logo itself.

Well, here you go .... is foxnews a high profile news outlet? High level sensationalism maybe
Another one of those jokers, who claimed to be the first designer of the logo was someone by the name of Sid Maurer ...

Does anyone have any information about this EP? Thanks!

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exilestones

Does anyone have any information about this EP?

Released on 6-Nov-2020 via Streaming only: [open.Spotify.com] , [Music.Apple.com] , [www.Qobuz.com] - Large picture - [iorr.org] .

3rd EP, Streaming only, 13-Nov-2020:


[open.Spotify.com] , [Music.Apple.com] , [www.Qobuz.com] - Large picture - [iorr.org] .

In August 2005 we ran into this guy in Boston MA, who had an interesting story.
His older brother, a diehard Stones fan, had invited him to go and see the Rolling Stones in Boston (Green Monster), just like us.
As a return of favour he had decided to surprise his brother by having his hair cut like the logo.
When we met him he just came back from the barber and was on his way to a special store to have this masterpiece coloured like the original logo version.
A pity we didn't get to see the final result.

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Irix

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exilestones

Does anyone have any information about this EP?

Released on 6-Nov-2020 via Streaming only: [open.Spotify.com] , [Music.Apple.com] , [www.Qobuz.com] - Large picture - [iorr.org] .

Thanks