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georgie48
It's all been cleared up
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georgie48
Pasche's version was already finished before a fax was send to Braun!
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georgie48
I do have an image of the simplified stamp version
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georgie48
Hi Irix,
Okay, some more info from me.
Your third question first:
John Pasche was not influenced by Graig Brain. Pasche's version was already finished before a fax was send to Braun! Pasche had started with making designs after Mick Jagger had shown him an image of the Hindi goddess Kali (sticks out her tongue, some say because she was embarrased) somewhere early second half 1970.
Braun and his team started working on what became the "USA" version in late Autumn 1970.
Second question:
The simplified rubber stamp was also made after Pasche had finished his work. The rubber stamp was used by Marshall Chess to mark letters, etc., with this new Stones logo (using red ink). As you may know, Chess was made president of Rolling Stones Records, the new company of the band. Chess has said in interviews that he came up with the idea of just only using an image (so no name), inspired by the Shell logo, which he saw when driving by car in the Netherlands.
First question:
I do have an image of the simplified stamp version, but you need to tell me how to place it on this site (link). It's not a secret thing, so maybe you can also find it in other communication. Possibly GasLightStreet has placed it somewhere before?
Enjoy!
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IrixQuote
georgie48
I do have an image of the simplified stamp version, but you need to tell me how to place it on this site (link).
I've never seen the stamp version and Google finds absolutely no image about it.
It would really be interesting to see it. My eMail is currently open, you could send me a Scan. I'll post it then here.
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georgie48
I found the image, which I received from Braun, but I have to place it myself, because as a receiver I can/ have to take responsability if trouble or anything occurs ...
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MisterDDDD
Is this visible Irix?
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georgie48
Sorry guys for giving you a hard time. I thought that once it's send I could delete it from Postimage.
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IrixQuote
georgie48
Sorry guys for giving you a hard time. I thought that once it's send I could delete it from Postimage.
You shouldn't have delete it from Postimage. The Delete-Link I had written about was for the case that Craig Braun faxes you over from New York two rubber stamps - Pic 3: [iorr.org] - with the lines: "Copyright Issue".
Postimage is the "Hard Disk Drive" where the pictures are stored. There're no pictures stored on IORR, except the ones provided by Bjornulf Vik himself.
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georgie48
The only thing in all the previous discussions, but even more so in the research that I did many years ago, I still hope one day to run into, are copies of correspondence that Marshall Chess made as president of Rolling Stones Records during those early months, where he used his stamp.
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IrixQuote
georgie48
The only thing in all the previous discussions, but even more so in the research that I did many years ago, I still hope one day to run into, are copies of correspondence that Marshall Chess made as president of Rolling Stones Records during those early months, where he used his stamp.
That would be interesting: it would clearly show when John Pasche's first logo was done in 1970 and how it looked in detail. Maybe Bill Wyman has some of the correspondence in his RS-Archive?
Here's a letter without date:
"A group of 1970s Rolling Stones stationery pieces including a sheet of Rolling Stones Records letterhead with tongue logo; two nearly identical green envelopes with the London office address for the Rolling Stones, one with slightly larger font treatment; and an off-white envelope reading 'Rolling Stones European Tour 1970.' The pieces date between 1968 and 1971." -- BW #3267 LOT 247 - [www.JuliensLive.com]
Letter & Logo from above straightened:
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georgie48
It's a real shame Aldridge past away, because he, for one, knew about "what happened between 1968 and 1970". Why were his creations (I really like his tiger-guitar creation) not "bought" by the Stones? Was he asked a lot of money (ripping them off?) for them, because he was already THE man for the Beatles? Or was it something else. I don't think we'll ever find out ... or John Pasche one day may ...?
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georgie48
Still, I fully dig the influence of Kali on the design. Both Mick and Keith mentioned it from different angles several times. It also perfectly fits with the feeling the band (Mick?) wanted to radiate to the outside world. The "red" Kali stands for "life", the "white" Kali stands for "birth" and the "black" Kali for "death". And "life" it still is 50 years after the creation of the logo!
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IrixQuote
georgie48
It's a real shame Aldridge past away, because he, for one, knew about "what happened between 1968 and 1970". Why were his creations (I really like his tiger-guitar creation) not "bought" by the Stones? Was he asked a lot of money (ripping them off?) for them, because he was already THE man for the Beatles? Or was it something else. I don't think we'll ever find out ... or John Pasche one day may ...?
Yes, it's very pity that Alan Aldridge doesn't live anymore. There would be many questions about his illustrations and what's his opinion about the influence for the Stones-logo. But Alan Aldridge must have had family, friends and business partners - maybe they know still some things?Quote
georgie48
Still, I fully dig the influence of Kali on the design. Both Mick and Keith mentioned it from different angles several times. It also perfectly fits with the feeling the band (Mick?) wanted to radiate to the outside world. The "red" Kali stands for "life", the "white" Kali stands for "birth" and the "black" Kali for "death". And "life" it still is 50 years after the creation of the logo!
Yes, there's no doubt that the original inspiration for the Stones-logo came from the Hindu goddess Kali.
But - when you look at depictions of Kali - it would have probably looked like this Kali-illustration done by John Pasche in 2020:
[Gramho.com] , [iorr.org]
The description of the V&A Museum about John Pasche's logo says: "Pasche, honing in on the goddess's protruding tongue, was inspired to create his famous logo, which captured perfectly the impudence of the band, and the prominence and sensuality of Jagger's mouth". And to achieve this in the logo, the Day-Tripper-illustration by Alan Aldridge was probably a welcome inspiration too. John Pasche was told by Mick Jagger that he could do better.
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georgie48
Also, when I did my "investigation" I collected around 400 mouth/tongue images from the Internet. Quite some were from way before 1968. Alan Aldridge for sure has been inspired by some of them too. I don't think any 60s artist could have claimed uniqueness at the time.