Tell Me :
Talk
I don't know if it's a spoof. I was always interested in knowing how many children Brian had.
I was always interested to see if the Stones children would become talented music performers. Brian may have been the most talented prodigy ever. They say he could pick-up and instrument and master it quickly.
It would be interesting to see a list of every instrument Brian played on which song.
What is this thing?
I saw Brian's tear drop guitar a couple of times. Once in NYC (New York) at the Hard Rock Cafe. The next time I went there it was gone.
Years later I saw it again in a traveling Hard Rock Cafe exhibition in a trailer. It was cool to see it. I think Brian used that guitar in "Satisfaction?" Does anybody know?
I once saw and heard in perfect quality "Play With Fire" and "Satisfaction" from Shindig.
"Play with Fire" had a different backing track, very cool but it's hard to hear in the poor quality video that is around.
"Satisfaction" has the Brian Jones harmonica solo at the end. I heard that early versions of Satisfaction has the harmonica. The harmonica gives the song a whole different feel, a Blues feel. That harmonica is a missing link between the Blues the Stones did before "Satisfaction" and what followed.
Did Shindig every release "Play with Fire" or "Satisfaction" videos?
VIDEO: [www.youtube.com]
MUSIC OF THE SIXTIES SHINDIG 1965 THE ROLLING STONES - Roger B
Yeah no that's not Brian's son, the ones mentioned before are indeed his children, however, apart from the baby that was adopted when he was in his teens, he never knew about any other children other than Julian and Mark. And when he had calmed down and was out of the stones in the late spring/summer of '69 he apparently talked very much with Anna about his sons and how proud he was of them and how ashamed he was that he hadn't been much of a dad to them and wanted them to visit Cothford Farm during school breaks and such and try to become a more prominent father figure in their life. He also wanted more children (which almost happened).
It's so sad that when he finally was getting himself straight he died, like he didn't get to keep his happiness.
Oh no I replied to the wrong person haha ignore this
)
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2016-04-14 18:05 by annajulia.
Not true.
No, sorry I know I sound harsh ! I am primarily a fan of the Jones 'n' Stones era but I don't buy into the genius claims and am not sympathetic as regards his apparent attitude towards his children.
I know many musicians (like me for example) who can pick up an unfamiliar instrument and play it after a couple of minutes - it's about understanding the relationships between notes.
If you play piano, banging out Under My Thumb on a marimba is easy, not an act of genius.
I'm not sure I buy into claims he had straightened out when he died either - black bombers and booze is not straightening out ! Maybe it is for Keith but not for most people.
But, i have always and will always love the period in the Stones history when he was with them. He was a bit of a magic ingredient when he wanted to be and given the opportunity. One of the top slide players this country has ever produced and he sure as hell knew how to prod a mellotron into action.
Ugh I hate to be repetitive but I truly do not believe that he was still abusing any drugs when he died. What he DID DO was take a Valium or Mandrax occasionally to help ease a restlessness he sometimes felt as a consequence from his earlier use of drugs but he never mixed it with alcohol and never took more than he was supposed to. And he drank, but not excessively ("Well he drank, like everybody else, the legal amount.", Anna Wohlin).
To trust only what the Stones, especially Mick and Keith, has said about Brian and his last months alive isn't completely trustworthy sources considering the fact that they've never said anything other than that he was a drunken, drugged up, abusive bastard since his death and also because they weren't even around him except for that day when they went down to sack him.
What we should do is trust what the people that were actually around Brian at that time says about his last months alive. Alexis Korner visited him numerous times at Cotchford Farm and said that he seemed happier then ever and the most clean he had ever seen him, John Lennon came by a couple of times to record some stuff Brian had been working on and Brian's girlfriend Anna has stated that the only time she saw him high was when the Stones went down to say he was out and Keith had brought a "present" for Brian which was a bag of cocaine (Brian was apparently very happy that Keith had thought about him even though the present was said drug haha), which Brian then took later that day and had to throw up since his body wasn't used to drugs.
But I don't think you should blame any of the Stones members for how they reacted to Brian while he really was out of it from '67 to '68 because I mean they were all grown men, they wasn't going to babysit him or anything. They had a job to do and when Brian didn't turn up or when he turned up but didn't contribute I understand if they felt frustrated and annoyed with him.
They did taunt him and I guess acted pretty immature though ("You know Mick and Keith really can be nasty, man. Last night, Brian just wasn’t allowed to contribute to the song they were working on. He had a harp part he thought he would work out. And they went, ‘All right, go out in the studio.’ They made him do it five or six times, where he had blood on both sides of his mouth from wailing so hard on the harp. But they hadn’t even rolled the tape.", Jack Nitzsche) Even Mick has admitted that he felt they behaved in a very childish way, and if Mick Jagger himself admits something like that, thats huge.
And the fact is that at the time of his death the post-mortem showed no real traces of drugs and his blood alcohol level represented the equivalent of just three and a half pints of beer.
(So sorry for all the text but I recently gained interest in his life and death and after much research I just find it important to bring forward some real facts about his last months in life that never gets mentioned in the media) (And also, I'm not being confrontative or anything so please don't (let me be misunderstood)
)
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2016-04-14 21:24 by annajulia.
I think the story about Lennon hooking up with Brian is a myth as are the stories about him possibly forming a group with Jimi, Mitch and John. There are no quotes from anyone credible who was there - Lennon never mentioned it, neither did Jimi and Mitch did not say anything about it in his autobiography. Given the nature of Beatle scholarship, if Lennon had farted within 10 miles of Brian's house there'd be a bootleg and photo of it. The only comments Lennon made after Brian's death are in the Rolling Stone interview where he says that towards the end he'd dread getting phone calls from Brian because he was in so much pain. Given his unhappy situation with the Beatles at the time I can't imagine him thinking about working with Brian.
Well I didn't say nor mean that he was sober, because no one has ever claimed that, not even Anna, and I certainly do not for a second believe he sober in that sense! He did use Valium or Mandrax in small doses occasionally (not mixed neither together nor with alcohol) as I mentioned before and he did drink, but not excessively. What I meant was that he wasn't doing any hard drugs or had an addiction of any sort. He did occasionally take prescribed drugs, but he didn't abuse them. The Valium and Mandrax were prescribed by his doctor.
And from everything that I've read, he was actually quite relieved when he was out. According to Anna when the Stones-office car would come pick him up to go to the studio he just flat out refused to go on most occasions. He did feel a bit sad the day of the sacking since it was a pretty big decision but he apparently got over it pretty quickly.
Yeah no I don't think he wasn't interested in the band because he wanted to go back to blues, it may have had some part of it, but I just think he was over the whole thing. He actually almost left the Stones in early '65 if I'm not incorrect but decided not to.
I think he had been unhappy with his diminishing role in the band that he founded and was just over it, it wouldn't have mattered if they started taking up the blues again, he probably had grown up and realized that he just wasn't interested in the band anymore. I think it was a good decision for both parties that he left the band. I mean, the Mick Taylor years were golden tbh
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2016-04-15 13:31 by annajulia.
Of course, Trynka's and Molloy's books both are bound to have more sympathy with Brian then Mick, Keith and Andrew (who are the 'bad guys').
The overall Tone of Trynka's book is a bit shrill, which is bothersome. Just write a balanced bio, without making any of those involved into a 'bad guy.' It will then beg the question of any reader 'were Mick, Keith or Andrew really the bad guys? I'm not sure that is helpful to the memory of Brian Jones...
Well, he would have certainly fail any breathalyser test.
An often overlooked and unexplained question is the large trace of an "amphetamine type drug" found in Brian's system. Nine times the "usual" amount.
Even by rock star standards that's pretty excessive.
Hence the drink and drugs misadventure conclusion.
Well in their own, rather idiosyncratic manner its true that both Keith and Anita were devoted to Marlon.
But not really their daughter Dandelion/Angela who very early on was taken care of by Keith's Mum.
So in that respect Keith was an absent father (50%).
Almost immediately after the opening post was entered and I noticed it, my thought was that these children did not choose their beginnings. Are we entitled to enter into such private details and publish them? I felt embarrassed and still feel that way.
I really prefer to abstain from moral judgement on the actions that gave birth to the children. Who am I to do otherwise? To a varying extent most of us have our own faults of some kind, maybe quite different, to consider. And I don't want to take part in more or less gossip on details from private lives. Without interest for the music that we love, and its involved musicians outside an anonymized presentation of Brian Jones' doings, I think.
Talk about your favorite band.
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Brian Jones' Children
Posted by:
exilestones
()
Date: April 14, 2016 09:20
About Rolling Stone Brian Jones' Children
How many children did Brian have? Was he ever married to any of their mothers?
Brian Jones was never married or formally engaged. He is believed to be the father of at least five children. Brian was not named as the father on the birth certificates of any of the children. He rejected all the kids that he knew about, although paltry financial settlements were made in some cases.
Brian Jones' Children
1. Name unknown, a son, born in 1959 to a 14-year-old Cheltenham schoolgirl named Valerie; the baby was adopted by other people
2. Name unknown, a daughter, born August 4, 1960 to a married woman from Cheltenham
3. Julian Mark, born October 22, 1961 to Cheltenham girl Pat Andrews
4. Julian Brian, born July 23, 1964 to Windsor teenager Linda Lawrence
5. John (Paul Andrew), born March 24, 1965 to teenager Dawn Molloy; adopted by other people
Rumored children
Marlon Richards - Brian's ex-girlfriend Anita Pallenberg was pregnant with Marlon when Brian died in 1969. Marlon had a mop of blond hair when he was little and a rumor spread that he was really Brian's son. Eventually, Marlon grew up to look just like his father, Keith Richards, putting an end to the story.
Timmy Faithless - This was reported in a tabloid type story about an Australian girl named Loriann Faithless who lived in a temple to Satan and conceived “Brian's son Timmy” after a Melbourne concert. (Get it? Marianne Faithfull?)
Johanna - In a terrible book, which shall remain nameless, a woman claims that in August 1969 she felt a cramp in her abdomen and saw blood running down her leg. These are the symptoms of a normal menstrual cycle, but the woman interpreted the event as the miscarriage of a girl fetus implanted in her by Brian Jones days before he died. Weirdly enough, this dream child lives on in Brian folklore.
Are Brian's kids heirs to his fortune?
Brian is said to have died £200,000 in debt and with virtually nothing in the bank. At any rate, under English law at that time, illegitimate children did not have inheritance rights. Brian's parents, still living as far as anyone knows, inherited his estate and receive any performance royalties due Brian. It is widely reported that they ignore all Brian's kids.
What about the paternity suits?
Linda Lawrence, mother of Julian, filed a paternity suit in 1965. Linda's parents had kicked Brian out of their home at the end of November, 1964 when Brian told them he would not marry girlfriend Linda. Brian was “hit by an affiliation order” the following May, according to Bill Wyman's Stone Alone. The suit was dropped later that year. Linda accepted a £1000 lump sum in an out of court settlement. Brian cut off all association with Linda and the baby. In 1970 Linda married recording artist Donovan.
Pat Andrews, the mother of Mark, filed a paternity suit that made News of the World headlines on January 16, 1966. Brian had cut off all contact with Pat and her son in 1963. After seeing news articles about Linda’s lawsuit, Pat also sought an affiliation order. Pat presented the court with a letter written by Brian Jones in 1962 to a collection agency. In this letter Brian referred to Pat as his fiancée and stated, “of course we plan to keep our child”. Brian was a no-show in court, and the angry judge granted Pat the maximum sum allowed at the time, £2.50 a week for Mark plus another £78 to pay for Pat’s court costs and confinement expenses. By 1969 Pat and her 7-year-old son were living in a council–run reception center in Lambeth with no other income than Mark's small allowance. After Brian died, the money stopped, according to Pat.
Mandy Aftel’s book includes this mysterious newspaper clipping about two girls in a cash fight for ex-Rolling Stone Brian Jones’ fortune. The two girls were Pat Andrews and Linda Lawrence. It appears Brian was still alive at the time of the article, but the full story seems to have been ignored, or suppressed, by all the different biographers. It is not known if either of the two girls was successful in their fight for more money.
Dawn Molloy, mother of Brian's fifth illegitimate child, named her son Paul Andrew (now John), but she was forced to put the baby up for adoption when he was about six weeks old. She never filed a paternity suit. Dawn did sign an agreement with Andrew Loog Oldham, Ltd, witnessed by Mick Jagger, that she would accept a settlement of £700 and make no statement about Brian Jones or the child to the press or public. Dawn married another man in late 1965.
What became of Brian's children?
Brian's first son has never been accounted for.
His only known daughter appears briefly in Stone Alone. Bill calls her “Carol”, but that is not her real name. “Carol” says her mother was having marriage problems and spent one night with Brian after a dance in the south of England. She never told Brian that she was pregnant and remained married to her husband. “Carol” found out who her real father was when she was fifteen, after her brother brought home a Rolling Stones album. Brian was a taboo subject in her home, but the girl became interested in reading everything she could about Brian. “Carol” suffers from temporal lobe epilepsy and believes that Brian may have suffered from an undiagnosed case of this same disease.
Little is known about Mark, although he is featured in Laura Jackson's 1992 bio Golden Stone. At that time Mark was newly married and “working for a multinational corporation”. He doesn't have any memories of his dad.
Julian was also featured in Golden Stone. He was raised in the United States. As a five-year-old he starred in a sci-fi movie called Saturation 70. When he grew up he tried to contact Brian's parents, but was turned away. He lives in Cork, Ireland and is a recording artist. He has a son named Brian.
Dawn's baby son, whom Brian never saw, was renamed John by his new family. He was raised in Essex. When he grew up he conducted a search for his biological parents. At age twenty-nine he found his mother, now living in the USA, and Dawn told him who his real father was. John is married with three kids. He works for the British branch of an American car manufacturer. Dawn is mentioned briefly in Stone Alone and Dawn and her son are included in Terry Rawlings' Good Times, Bad Times.
Do Brian's kids look like him?
How many children did Brian have? Was he ever married to any of their mothers?
Brian Jones was never married or formally engaged. He is believed to be the father of at least five children. Brian was not named as the father on the birth certificates of any of the children. He rejected all the kids that he knew about, although paltry financial settlements were made in some cases.
Brian Jones' Children
1. Name unknown, a son, born in 1959 to a 14-year-old Cheltenham schoolgirl named Valerie; the baby was adopted by other people
2. Name unknown, a daughter, born August 4, 1960 to a married woman from Cheltenham
3. Julian Mark, born October 22, 1961 to Cheltenham girl Pat Andrews
4. Julian Brian, born July 23, 1964 to Windsor teenager Linda Lawrence
5. John (Paul Andrew), born March 24, 1965 to teenager Dawn Molloy; adopted by other people
Mark, Julian and John
Rumored children
Marlon Richards - Brian's ex-girlfriend Anita Pallenberg was pregnant with Marlon when Brian died in 1969. Marlon had a mop of blond hair when he was little and a rumor spread that he was really Brian's son. Eventually, Marlon grew up to look just like his father, Keith Richards, putting an end to the story.
Timmy Faithless - This was reported in a tabloid type story about an Australian girl named Loriann Faithless who lived in a temple to Satan and conceived “Brian's son Timmy” after a Melbourne concert. (Get it? Marianne Faithfull?)
Johanna - In a terrible book, which shall remain nameless, a woman claims that in August 1969 she felt a cramp in her abdomen and saw blood running down her leg. These are the symptoms of a normal menstrual cycle, but the woman interpreted the event as the miscarriage of a girl fetus implanted in her by Brian Jones days before he died. Weirdly enough, this dream child lives on in Brian folklore.
Are Brian's kids heirs to his fortune?
Brian is said to have died £200,000 in debt and with virtually nothing in the bank. At any rate, under English law at that time, illegitimate children did not have inheritance rights. Brian's parents, still living as far as anyone knows, inherited his estate and receive any performance royalties due Brian. It is widely reported that they ignore all Brian's kids.
What about the paternity suits?
Linda Lawrence, mother of Julian, filed a paternity suit in 1965. Linda's parents had kicked Brian out of their home at the end of November, 1964 when Brian told them he would not marry girlfriend Linda. Brian was “hit by an affiliation order” the following May, according to Bill Wyman's Stone Alone. The suit was dropped later that year. Linda accepted a £1000 lump sum in an out of court settlement. Brian cut off all association with Linda and the baby. In 1970 Linda married recording artist Donovan.
Pat Andrews, the mother of Mark, filed a paternity suit that made News of the World headlines on January 16, 1966. Brian had cut off all contact with Pat and her son in 1963. After seeing news articles about Linda’s lawsuit, Pat also sought an affiliation order. Pat presented the court with a letter written by Brian Jones in 1962 to a collection agency. In this letter Brian referred to Pat as his fiancée and stated, “of course we plan to keep our child”. Brian was a no-show in court, and the angry judge granted Pat the maximum sum allowed at the time, £2.50 a week for Mark plus another £78 to pay for Pat’s court costs and confinement expenses. By 1969 Pat and her 7-year-old son were living in a council–run reception center in Lambeth with no other income than Mark's small allowance. After Brian died, the money stopped, according to Pat.
Mandy Aftel’s book includes this mysterious newspaper clipping about two girls in a cash fight for ex-Rolling Stone Brian Jones’ fortune. The two girls were Pat Andrews and Linda Lawrence. It appears Brian was still alive at the time of the article, but the full story seems to have been ignored, or suppressed, by all the different biographers. It is not known if either of the two girls was successful in their fight for more money.
Dawn Molloy, mother of Brian's fifth illegitimate child, named her son Paul Andrew (now John), but she was forced to put the baby up for adoption when he was about six weeks old. She never filed a paternity suit. Dawn did sign an agreement with Andrew Loog Oldham, Ltd, witnessed by Mick Jagger, that she would accept a settlement of £700 and make no statement about Brian Jones or the child to the press or public. Dawn married another man in late 1965.
What became of Brian's children?
Brian's first son has never been accounted for.
His only known daughter appears briefly in Stone Alone. Bill calls her “Carol”, but that is not her real name. “Carol” says her mother was having marriage problems and spent one night with Brian after a dance in the south of England. She never told Brian that she was pregnant and remained married to her husband. “Carol” found out who her real father was when she was fifteen, after her brother brought home a Rolling Stones album. Brian was a taboo subject in her home, but the girl became interested in reading everything she could about Brian. “Carol” suffers from temporal lobe epilepsy and believes that Brian may have suffered from an undiagnosed case of this same disease.
Little is known about Mark, although he is featured in Laura Jackson's 1992 bio Golden Stone. At that time Mark was newly married and “working for a multinational corporation”. He doesn't have any memories of his dad.
Julian was also featured in Golden Stone. He was raised in the United States. As a five-year-old he starred in a sci-fi movie called Saturation 70. When he grew up he tried to contact Brian's parents, but was turned away. He lives in Cork, Ireland and is a recording artist. He has a son named Brian.
Dawn's baby son, whom Brian never saw, was renamed John by his new family. He was raised in Essex. When he grew up he conducted a search for his biological parents. At age twenty-nine he found his mother, now living in the USA, and Dawn told him who his real father was. John is married with three kids. He works for the British branch of an American car manufacturer. Dawn is mentioned briefly in Stone Alone and Dawn and her son are included in Terry Rawlings' Good Times, Bad Times.
Do Brian's kids look like him?
Mark, Julian and John
Re: Brian Jones' Children
Posted by:
exilestones
()
Date: April 14, 2016 09:32
VIDEO: [www.youtube.com]
Pat Andrews With Her Son Mark (Brian Jones was the father) (circa 1964)
This is a longer piece than was previously uploaded. One feels enormous sympathy for Pat Andrews here, as she relates the ugliness involving the late Rolling Stone. Julian Mark (born October 22, 1961) bears a passing resemblance, no? (Hell, he looks like a 'Mini Me' version of Brian!) - MrJadedtom
-----
Brian Jones Children – Parents, Paternity, Pitiful Biography:
[forever-27.com]
-----
Interview with Brian Jones's Son DAVID LARS "CANNONBALL" BRANDSTONE: [www.angelfire.com]
-----
julian mark andrews
Without a doubt your father [Brian] felt that a great weight had been lifted off his shoulders once he had finally quit the Stones. He knew what he wanted, and that it was no longer with the band. He wanted back to R&B. He was writing songs too and working very hard. I was with him a lot during this time and he was in a very fine fettle indeed.
— Alexis Korner to Julian Mark Andrews
Pat Andrews With Her Son Mark (Brian Jones was the father) (circa 1964)
This is a longer piece than was previously uploaded. One feels enormous sympathy for Pat Andrews here, as she relates the ugliness involving the late Rolling Stone. Julian Mark (born October 22, 1961) bears a passing resemblance, no? (Hell, he looks like a 'Mini Me' version of Brian!) - MrJadedtom
-----
Brian Jones Children – Parents, Paternity, Pitiful Biography:
[forever-27.com]
-----
Interview with Brian Jones's Son DAVID LARS "CANNONBALL" BRANDSTONE: [www.angelfire.com]
-----
julian mark andrews
Without a doubt your father [Brian] felt that a great weight had been lifted off his shoulders once he had finally quit the Stones. He knew what he wanted, and that it was no longer with the band. He wanted back to R&B. He was writing songs too and working very hard. I was with him a lot during this time and he was in a very fine fettle indeed.
— Alexis Korner to Julian Mark Andrews
Re: Brian Jones' Children
Posted by:
little queenie
()
Date: April 14, 2016 10:13
I met Julian Brian back in 1987 at a small Donovan club show (about 15 people in the audience). He looked more like Mick Taylor back then....
Here's Julian Brian's profile pic on Facebook:
[www.facebook.com]
Here is his song to his dad...notice he calls out Michael and Keith...and Marlon comments that he supports him:
[www.facebook.com]
Here's Julian Brian's profile pic on Facebook:
[www.facebook.com]
Here is his song to his dad...notice he calls out Michael and Keith...and Marlon comments that he supports him:
[www.facebook.com]
Re: Brian Jones' Children
Posted by:
Silver Dagger
()
Date: April 14, 2016 13:13
I met Julian at a Brian Jones tribute concert at the old Astoria in London in around 1989. We spoke for about 10 minutes and shared a spliff whilst watching The Pretty Things play.
It was really bizarre being in his company because of how much he looked like Brian. He seemed a really nice guy.
It was really bizarre being in his company because of how much he looked like Brian. He seemed a really nice guy.
Re: Brian Jones' Children
Posted by:
ash
()
Date: April 14, 2016 13:22
Very interesting and very sad.
At least five kids (with basically no help for them or their Mums) is beyond an accident. I think it says a lot about his character. If he wasn't in the Stones I suspect no-one here would think he was anything other than a total shitbag.
Though I'm not a fan of Rawlings sensationalist hearsay rubbish, Paul Spendel's more considered and research driven approach makes it plausible that a factor in Brian's death was that he may finally have pissed off the wrong people.
Very sad.
At least five kids (with basically no help for them or their Mums) is beyond an accident. I think it says a lot about his character. If he wasn't in the Stones I suspect no-one here would think he was anything other than a total shitbag.
Though I'm not a fan of Rawlings sensationalist hearsay rubbish, Paul Spendel's more considered and research driven approach makes it plausible that a factor in Brian's death was that he may finally have pissed off the wrong people.
Very sad.
Re: Brian Jones' Children
Posted by:
ash
()
Date: April 14, 2016 13:28
Interview with Brian Jones's Son DAVID LARS "CANNONBALL" BRANDSTONE: [www.angelfire.com]
That's a spoof, right ?
That's a spoof, right ?
Re: Brian Jones' Children
Posted by:
mkbbci
()
Date: April 14, 2016 16:27
brian had another daughter with an American woman.she was born on February 23,1969,4 1/2 months before brian died.her name is Barbara Bogdan wolf.i have her as a facebook friend check her out.she is cool and beautiful.
Re: Brian Jones' Children
Posted by:
exilestones
()
Date: April 14, 2016 17:33
Quote
ash
Interview with Brian Jones's Son DAVID LARS "CANNONBALL" BRANDSTONE: [www.angelfire.com]
That's a spoof, right ?
I don't know if it's a spoof. I was always interested in knowing how many children Brian had.
I was always interested to see if the Stones children would become talented music performers. Brian may have been the most talented prodigy ever. They say he could pick-up and instrument and master it quickly.
It would be interesting to see a list of every instrument Brian played on which song.
What is this thing?
I saw Brian's tear drop guitar a couple of times. Once in NYC (New York) at the Hard Rock Cafe. The next time I went there it was gone.
Years later I saw it again in a traveling Hard Rock Cafe exhibition in a trailer. It was cool to see it. I think Brian used that guitar in "Satisfaction?" Does anybody know?
I once saw and heard in perfect quality "Play With Fire" and "Satisfaction" from Shindig.
"Play with Fire" had a different backing track, very cool but it's hard to hear in the poor quality video that is around.
"Satisfaction" has the Brian Jones harmonica solo at the end. I heard that early versions of Satisfaction has the harmonica. The harmonica gives the song a whole different feel, a Blues feel. That harmonica is a missing link between the Blues the Stones did before "Satisfaction" and what followed.
Did Shindig every release "Play with Fire" or "Satisfaction" videos?
VIDEO: [www.youtube.com]
MUSIC OF THE SIXTIES SHINDIG 1965 THE ROLLING STONES - Roger B
Re: Brian Jones' Children
Posted by:
2000 LYFH
()
Date: April 14, 2016 17:57
Brian's dad died in 2009 in Wales and his mom in 2011 in Devon : [www.iorr.org]
Re: Brian Jones' Children
Posted by:
annajulia
()
Date: April 14, 2016 17:59
Quote
ash
Very interesting and very sad.
At least five kids (with basically no help for them or their Mums) is beyond an accident. I think it says a lot about his character. If he wasn't in the Stones I suspect no-one here would think he was anything other than a total shitbag.
Though I'm not a fan of Rawlings sensationalist hearsay rubbish, Paul Spendel's more considered and research driven approach makes it plausible that a factor in Brian's death was that he may finally have pissed off the wrong people.
Very sad.
Yeah no that's not Brian's son, the ones mentioned before are indeed his children, however, apart from the baby that was adopted when he was in his teens, he never knew about any other children other than Julian and Mark. And when he had calmed down and was out of the stones in the late spring/summer of '69 he apparently talked very much with Anna about his sons and how proud he was of them and how ashamed he was that he hadn't been much of a dad to them and wanted them to visit Cothford Farm during school breaks and such and try to become a more prominent father figure in their life. He also wanted more children (which almost happened).
It's so sad that when he finally was getting himself straight he died, like he didn't get to keep his happiness.
Re: Brian Jones' Children
Posted by:
annajulia
()
Date: April 14, 2016 18:03
Quote
annajuliaQuote
ash
Very interesting and very sad.
At least five kids (with basically no help for them or their Mums) is beyond an accident. I think it says a lot about his character. If he wasn't in the Stones I suspect no-one here would think he was anything other than a total shitbag.
Though I'm not a fan of Rawlings sensationalist hearsay rubbish, Paul Spendel's more considered and research driven approach makes it plausible that a factor in Brian's death was that he may finally have pissed off the wrong people.
Very sad.
Yeah no that's not Brian's son, the ones mentioned before are indeed his children, however, apart from the baby that was adopted when he was in his teens, he never knew about any other children other than Julian and Mark. And when he had calmed down and was out of the stones in the late spring/summer of '69 he apparently talked very much with Anna about his sons and how proud he was of them and how ashamed he was that he hadn't been much of a dad to them and wanted them to visit Cothford Farm during school breaks and such and try to become a more prominent father figure in their life. He also wanted more children (which almost happened).
It's so sad that when he finally was getting himself straight he died, like he didn't get to keep his happiness.
Oh no I replied to the wrong person haha ignore this
)Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2016-04-14 18:05 by annajulia.
Re: Brian Jones' Children
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: April 14, 2016 18:24
Quote
annajulia
... he never knew about any other children other than Julian and Mark...
Not true.
Re: Brian Jones' Children
Posted by:
ash
()
Date: April 14, 2016 18:46
Quote
annajuliaQuote
annajuliaQuote
ash
Very interesting and very sad.
At least five kids (with basically no help for them or their Mums) is beyond an accident. I think it says a lot about his character. If he wasn't in the Stones I suspect no-one here would think he was anything other than a total shitbag.
Though I'm not a fan of Rawlings sensationalist hearsay rubbish, Paul Spendel's more considered and research driven approach makes it plausible that a factor in Brian's death was that he may finally have pissed off the wrong people.
Very sad.
Yeah no that's not Brian's son, the ones mentioned before are indeed his children, however, apart from the baby that was adopted when he was in his teens, he never knew about any other children other than Julian and Mark. And when he had calmed down and was out of the stones in the late spring/summer of '69 he apparently talked very much with Anna about his sons and how proud he was of them and how ashamed he was that he hadn't been much of a dad to them and wanted them to visit Cothford Farm during school breaks and such and try to become a more prominent father figure in their life. He also wanted more children (which almost happened).
It's so sad that when he finally was getting himself straight he died, like he didn't get to keep his happiness.
Oh no I replied to the wrong person haha ignore this
No, sorry I know I sound harsh ! I am primarily a fan of the Jones 'n' Stones era but I don't buy into the genius claims and am not sympathetic as regards his apparent attitude towards his children.
I know many musicians (like me for example) who can pick up an unfamiliar instrument and play it after a couple of minutes - it's about understanding the relationships between notes.
If you play piano, banging out Under My Thumb on a marimba is easy, not an act of genius.
I'm not sure I buy into claims he had straightened out when he died either - black bombers and booze is not straightening out ! Maybe it is for Keith but not for most people.
But, i have always and will always love the period in the Stones history when he was with them. He was a bit of a magic ingredient when he wanted to be and given the opportunity. One of the top slide players this country has ever produced and he sure as hell knew how to prod a mellotron into action.
Re: Brian Jones' Children
Posted by:
24FPS
()
Date: April 14, 2016 20:06
His children are one subject, his genius another. I think he was a pocket genius, not a major one. Sure, maybe some musicians can pick up any instrument and get something listenable out of it in short order, but you can play till you fingers/gums/feet bleed and you still wouldn't produce the recorder solo on Ruby Tuesday unless you had the innate feel and talent.
Re: Brian Jones' Children
Posted by:
wonderboy
()
Date: April 14, 2016 20:33
That's a spot-on, fair assessment of him, imo.
He seemed to me like one of those addicts who was never going to recover and unlike Keith he didn't have an instinct for survival and a moral core. And as Mick once said, at the time they just didn't know how to help him.
He seemed to me like one of those addicts who was never going to recover and unlike Keith he didn't have an instinct for survival and a moral core. And as Mick once said, at the time they just didn't know how to help him.
Re: Brian Jones' Children
Posted by:
NICOS
()
Date: April 14, 2016 20:51
Quote
exilestonesQuote
ash
Interview with Brian Jones's Son DAVID LARS "CANNONBALL" BRANDSTONE: [www.angelfire.com]
That's a spoof, right ?
I don't know if it's a spoof. I was always interested in knowing how many children Brian had.
I was always interested to see if the Stones children would become talented music performers. Brian may have been the most talented prodigy ever. They say he could pick-up and instrument and master it quickly.
It would be interesting to see a list of every instrument Brian played on which song.
What is this thing?
Put your head in it and I will tell you...................
__________________________
Re: Brian Jones' Children
Posted by:
annajulia
()
Date: April 14, 2016 21:11
Quote
wonderboy
That's a spot-on, fair assessment of him, imo.
He seemed to me like one of those addicts who was never going to recover and unlike Keith he didn't have an instinct for survival and a moral core. And as Mick once said, at the time they just didn't know how to help him.
Ugh I hate to be repetitive but I truly do not believe that he was still abusing any drugs when he died. What he DID DO was take a Valium or Mandrax occasionally to help ease a restlessness he sometimes felt as a consequence from his earlier use of drugs but he never mixed it with alcohol and never took more than he was supposed to. And he drank, but not excessively ("Well he drank, like everybody else, the legal amount.", Anna Wohlin).
To trust only what the Stones, especially Mick and Keith, has said about Brian and his last months alive isn't completely trustworthy sources considering the fact that they've never said anything other than that he was a drunken, drugged up, abusive bastard since his death and also because they weren't even around him except for that day when they went down to sack him.
What we should do is trust what the people that were actually around Brian at that time says about his last months alive. Alexis Korner visited him numerous times at Cotchford Farm and said that he seemed happier then ever and the most clean he had ever seen him, John Lennon came by a couple of times to record some stuff Brian had been working on and Brian's girlfriend Anna has stated that the only time she saw him high was when the Stones went down to say he was out and Keith had brought a "present" for Brian which was a bag of cocaine (Brian was apparently very happy that Keith had thought about him even though the present was said drug haha), which Brian then took later that day and had to throw up since his body wasn't used to drugs.
But I don't think you should blame any of the Stones members for how they reacted to Brian while he really was out of it from '67 to '68 because I mean they were all grown men, they wasn't going to babysit him or anything. They had a job to do and when Brian didn't turn up or when he turned up but didn't contribute I understand if they felt frustrated and annoyed with him.
They did taunt him and I guess acted pretty immature though ("You know Mick and Keith really can be nasty, man. Last night, Brian just wasn’t allowed to contribute to the song they were working on. He had a harp part he thought he would work out. And they went, ‘All right, go out in the studio.’ They made him do it five or six times, where he had blood on both sides of his mouth from wailing so hard on the harp. But they hadn’t even rolled the tape.", Jack Nitzsche) Even Mick has admitted that he felt they behaved in a very childish way, and if Mick Jagger himself admits something like that, thats huge.
And the fact is that at the time of his death the post-mortem showed no real traces of drugs and his blood alcohol level represented the equivalent of just three and a half pints of beer.
(So sorry for all the text but I recently gained interest in his life and death and after much research I just find it important to bring forward some real facts about his last months in life that never gets mentioned in the media
) (And also, I'm not being confrontative or anything so please don't (let me be misunderstood))Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2016-04-14 21:24 by annajulia.
Re: Brian Jones' Children
Posted by:
wonderboy
()
Date: April 14, 2016 21:55
annajulia, just knowing what I do about addiction, if he was drinking and taking pills then he absolutely did not have his act together. If an addict is using (especially mixing all kinds of things) then he is abusing. Compound that with the fact he was hanging around with lowlifes and you had a recipe for disaster.
Fwiw, I believe Keith could just as easily have died of some kind of misadventure along the way but survived because of good luck and being organized and/or mature enough to have somewhat of a support system around him.
The nature of bands is that lineups are always changing, especially at that time, so I believe that Mick and Keith probably did believe he would be OK after they sacked him, maybe join the Yardbirds or somebody like that (everybody else did, lol).
And I've always doubted that he was tired of the music the Stones were playing and wanted to get back to blues and roots music because the Stones spent '68 and '69 doing exactly that.
Fwiw, I believe Keith could just as easily have died of some kind of misadventure along the way but survived because of good luck and being organized and/or mature enough to have somewhat of a support system around him.
The nature of bands is that lineups are always changing, especially at that time, so I believe that Mick and Keith probably did believe he would be OK after they sacked him, maybe join the Yardbirds or somebody like that (everybody else did, lol).
And I've always doubted that he was tired of the music the Stones were playing and wanted to get back to blues and roots music because the Stones spent '68 and '69 doing exactly that.
Re: Brian Jones' Children
Posted by:
Bliss
()
Date: April 15, 2016 10:34
I have read more than a few times that he named two of his sons Mark Julian and Julian Mark.
Re: Brian Jones' Children
Posted by:
ash
()
Date: April 15, 2016 11:14
Quote
annajuliaQuote
wonderboy
That's a spot-on, fair assessment of him, imo.
He seemed to me like one of those addicts who was never going to recover and unlike Keith he didn't have an instinct for survival and a moral core. And as Mick once said, at the time they just didn't know how to help him.
Ugh I hate to be repetitive but I truly do not believe that he was still abusing any drugs when he died. What he DID DO was take a Valium or Mandrax occasionally to help ease a restlessness he sometimes felt as a consequence from his earlier use of drugs but he never mixed it with alcohol and never took more than he was supposed to. And he drank, but not excessively ("Well he drank, like everybody else, the legal amount.", Anna Wohlin).
To trust only what the Stones, especially Mick and Keith, has said about Brian and his last months alive isn't completely trustworthy sources considering the fact that they've never said anything other than that he was a drunken, drugged up, abusive bastard since his death and also because they weren't even around him except for that day when they went down to sack him.
What we should do is trust what the people that were actually around Brian at that time says about his last months alive. Alexis Korner visited him numerous times at Cotchford Farm and said that he seemed happier then ever and the most clean he had ever seen him, John Lennon came by a couple of times to record some stuff Brian had been working on and Brian's girlfriend Anna has stated that the only time she saw him high was when the Stones went down to say he was out and Keith had brought a "present" for Brian which was a bag of cocaine (Brian was apparently very happy that Keith had thought about him even though the present was said drug haha), which Brian then took later that day and had to throw up since his body wasn't used to drugs.
But I don't think you should blame any of the Stones members for how they reacted to Brian while he really was out of it from '67 to '68 because I mean they were all grown men, they wasn't going to babysit him or anything. They had a job to do and when Brian didn't turn up or when he turned up but didn't contribute I understand if they felt frustrated and annoyed with him.
They did taunt him and I guess acted pretty immature though ("You know Mick and Keith really can be nasty, man. Last night, Brian just wasn’t allowed to contribute to the song they were working on. He had a harp part he thought he would work out. And they went, ‘All right, go out in the studio.’ They made him do it five or six times, where he had blood on both sides of his mouth from wailing so hard on the harp. But they hadn’t even rolled the tape.", Jack Nitzsche) Even Mick has admitted that he felt they behaved in a very childish way, and if Mick Jagger himself admits something like that, thats huge.
And the fact is that at the time of his death the post-mortem showed no real traces of drugs and his blood alcohol level represented the equivalent of just three and a half pints of beer.
(So sorry for all the text but I recently gained interest in his life and death and after much research I just find it important to bring forward some real facts about his last months in life that never gets mentioned in the media
I think the story about Lennon hooking up with Brian is a myth as are the stories about him possibly forming a group with Jimi, Mitch and John. There are no quotes from anyone credible who was there - Lennon never mentioned it, neither did Jimi and Mitch did not say anything about it in his autobiography. Given the nature of Beatle scholarship, if Lennon had farted within 10 miles of Brian's house there'd be a bootleg and photo of it. The only comments Lennon made after Brian's death are in the Rolling Stone interview where he says that towards the end he'd dread getting phone calls from Brian because he was in so much pain. Given his unhappy situation with the Beatles at the time I can't imagine him thinking about working with Brian.
Re: Brian Jones' Children
Posted by:
Come On
()
Date: April 15, 2016 11:20
Brian Jones Children lost their father 47 years ago...is this subject really of any intresst unless some of them Children is a bluesman just as Brian was?
2 1 2 0
2 1 2 0
Re: Brian Jones' Children
Posted by:
annajulia
()
Date: April 15, 2016 13:29
Quote
wonderboy
annajulia, just knowing what I do about addiction, if he was drinking and taking pills then he absolutely did not have his act together. If an addict is using (especially mixing all kinds of things) then he is abusing. Compound that with the fact he was hanging around with lowlifes and you had a recipe for disaster.
Fwiw, I believe Keith could just as easily have died of some kind of misadventure along the way but survived because of good luck and being organized and/or mature enough to have somewhat of a support system around him.
The nature of bands is that lineups are always changing, especially at that time, so I believe that Mick and Keith probably did believe he would be OK after they sacked him, maybe join the Yardbirds or somebody like that (everybody else did, lol).
And I've always doubted that he was tired of the music the Stones were playing and wanted to get back to blues and roots music because the Stones spent '68 and '69 doing exactly that.
Well I didn't say nor mean that he was sober, because no one has ever claimed that, not even Anna, and I certainly do not for a second believe he sober in that sense! He did use Valium or Mandrax in small doses occasionally (not mixed neither together nor with alcohol) as I mentioned before and he did drink, but not excessively. What I meant was that he wasn't doing any hard drugs or had an addiction of any sort. He did occasionally take prescribed drugs, but he didn't abuse them. The Valium and Mandrax were prescribed by his doctor.
And from everything that I've read, he was actually quite relieved when he was out. According to Anna when the Stones-office car would come pick him up to go to the studio he just flat out refused to go on most occasions. He did feel a bit sad the day of the sacking since it was a pretty big decision but he apparently got over it pretty quickly.
Yeah no I don't think he wasn't interested in the band because he wanted to go back to blues, it may have had some part of it, but I just think he was over the whole thing. He actually almost left the Stones in early '65 if I'm not incorrect but decided not to.
I think he had been unhappy with his diminishing role in the band that he founded and was just over it, it wouldn't have mattered if they started taking up the blues again, he probably had grown up and realized that he just wasn't interested in the band anymore. I think it was a good decision for both parties that he left the band. I mean, the Mick Taylor years were golden tbh
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2016-04-15 13:31 by annajulia.
Re: Brian Jones' Children
Posted by:
Bliss
()
Date: April 15, 2016 15:17
I would say that 3.5 pints of beer is an excessive amount.
Re: Brian Jones' Children
Posted by:
ash
()
Date: April 15, 2016 15:45
as a chaser to black bombers i would agree.
Re: Brian Jones' Children
Posted by:
jlowe
()
Date: April 15, 2016 17:21
Paul Trynka's 2014 bio is by far and away the most thorough and balanced book on Brian. It won't satisfy every fan of course...but what would?
The chapters on Brian's childhood years in Cheltenham are as detailed as we are ever likely to get; unless his surviving sister writes her own story which would seem 99% unlikely.
Paul refers to two children by two schoolgirls, one called Barry David (or Simon) and another (given the name Hope)in the book, to protect her privacy.
It gets very confusing.
Brian's last girl friend Anna Wholin claims to have been pregnant when he died, subsequently miscarried.
Of course a lot of Brian's musical heroes had similar and chaotic situations with women, so no role models there.
The mother of Brian's 5th (dependent on the source) child, Dawn Molloy Young has written a book "Not Fade Away". I have not read it but it gets high praise on Amazon reviews, obviously her brief time with Brian is the focus, but it also dwells on the very great difficulties which single, unmarried mothers had to face as recent as the mid 60's. Brian gets quite a sympathetic study apparently; RS Ltd and Loog Oldham less so.
The chapters on Brian's childhood years in Cheltenham are as detailed as we are ever likely to get; unless his surviving sister writes her own story which would seem 99% unlikely.
Paul refers to two children by two schoolgirls, one called Barry David (or Simon) and another (given the name Hope)in the book, to protect her privacy.
It gets very confusing.
Brian's last girl friend Anna Wholin claims to have been pregnant when he died, subsequently miscarried.
Of course a lot of Brian's musical heroes had similar and chaotic situations with women, so no role models there.
The mother of Brian's 5th (dependent on the source) child, Dawn Molloy Young has written a book "Not Fade Away". I have not read it but it gets high praise on Amazon reviews, obviously her brief time with Brian is the focus, but it also dwells on the very great difficulties which single, unmarried mothers had to face as recent as the mid 60's. Brian gets quite a sympathetic study apparently; RS Ltd and Loog Oldham less so.
Re: Brian Jones' Children
Posted by:
nightskyman
()
Date: April 15, 2016 17:40
Quote
jlowe
Paul Trynka's 2014 bio is by far and away the most thorough and balanced book on Brian. It won't satisfy every fan of course...but what would?
The chapters on Brian's childhood years in Cheltenham are as detailed as we are ever likely to get; unless his surviving sister writes her own story which would seem 99% unlikely.
Paul refers to two children by two schoolgirls, one called Barry David (or Simon) and another (given the name Hope)in the book, to protect her privacy.
It gets very confusing.
Brian's last girl friend Anna Wholin claims to have been pregnant when he died, subsequently miscarried.
Of course a lot of Brian's musical heroes had similar and chaotic situations with women, so no role models there.
The mother of Brian's 5th (dependent on the source) child, Dawn Molloy Young has written a book "Not Fade Away". I have not read it but it gets high praise on Amazon reviews, obviously her brief time with Brian is the focus, but it also dwells on the very great difficulties which single, unmarried mothers had to face as recent as the mid 60's. Brian gets quite a sympathetic study apparently; RS Ltd and Loog Oldham less so.
Of course, Trynka's and Molloy's books both are bound to have more sympathy with Brian then Mick, Keith and Andrew (who are the 'bad guys').
The overall Tone of Trynka's book is a bit shrill, which is bothersome. Just write a balanced bio, without making any of those involved into a 'bad guy.' It will then beg the question of any reader 'were Mick, Keith or Andrew really the bad guys? I'm not sure that is helpful to the memory of Brian Jones...
Re: Brian Jones' Children
Posted by:
jlowe
()
Date: April 15, 2016 18:06
Quote
Bliss
I would say that 3.5 pints of beer is an excessive amount.
Well, he would have certainly fail any breathalyser test.
An often overlooked and unexplained question is the large trace of an "amphetamine type drug" found in Brian's system. Nine times the "usual" amount.
Even by rock star standards that's pretty excessive.
Hence the drink and drugs misadventure conclusion.
Re: Brian Jones' Children
Posted by:
wonderboy
()
Date: April 15, 2016 18:32
Keith's first child was born shortly after Brian died, and Keith was by most accounts a pretty devoted dad for all his problems, and perhaps that colored his subsequent feelings about Brian. When they were young they probably looked up to Brian's adventures with fatherhood; after they had experienced more of life probably not as much.
Re: Brian Jones' Children
Posted by:
jlowe
()
Date: April 15, 2016 18:42
Quote
wonderboy
Keith's first child was born shortly after Brian died, and Keith was by most accounts a pretty devoted dad for all his problems, and perhaps that colored his subsequent feelings about Brian. When they were young they probably looked up to Brian's adventures with fatherhood; after they had experienced more of life probably not as much.
Well in their own, rather idiosyncratic manner its true that both Keith and Anita were devoted to Marlon.
But not really their daughter Dandelion/Angela who very early on was taken care of by Keith's Mum.
So in that respect Keith was an absent father (50%).
Re: Brian Jones' Children
Posted by:
Witness
()
Date: April 15, 2016 18:58
Quote
Come On
Brian Jones Children lost their father 47 years ago...is this subject really of any intresst unless some of them Children is a bluesman just as Brian was?
Almost immediately after the opening post was entered and I noticed it, my thought was that these children did not choose their beginnings. Are we entitled to enter into such private details and publish them? I felt embarrassed and still feel that way.
I really prefer to abstain from moral judgement on the actions that gave birth to the children. Who am I to do otherwise? To a varying extent most of us have our own faults of some kind, maybe quite different, to consider. And I don't want to take part in more or less gossip on details from private lives. Without interest for the music that we love, and its involved musicians outside an anonymized presentation of Brian Jones' doings, I think.
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