Interesting. The feuding among the members of the group reminds me of M and K. Had to check out what the line about Mick being chickensh*t was about. Here's the quote: "I know Mick Jagger won't be here tonight, he's gonna have to stay in England. But I'd like to see us in the Coliseum and he at Wembley Stadium because he's always been chickenshit to get on stage with the Beach Boys." Here's the link to the interview.

[www.rollingstone.com]

The biggest aholes usually can't understand why they think they are aholes.

Mike Love is incredibly important to the Beach Boys. He is also a terrible, smug, arrogant guy that has always thought he's better than he actually is. Its a fascinating read, but hard to get through since Mike seemingly has no idea why he's disliked. A horrible quality, and after dumping the real Beach Boys after their reunion tour and he had some cash, that was my final straw with him.

EDIT: And for what its worth, I give the guy credit. Sure Smile and Pet Sounds are beloved now, but you watch that Love And Mercy movie and you understand completely why Mike and anyone would feel that way. No one could have known what that would become. He was right.Its just everything after when he was being an ahole was so wrong. Just accept you aren't the leader of the Beach Boys, and do the right thing. He chooses not to and makes a villan of himself. I also give him credit for dealing with Brian, which isn't easy after he lost his mind. Its like dealing with a child, and I'm sure it takes its toll. There's just too many negatives to defend even that though.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2016-03-01 19:59 by RollingFreak.

I can't deal with Beach Boys fandom anymore. Either Mike or Brian Wilson. It's all a crock. I much prefer the Stones or the Beatles for that era.

It just hit me that Love gives no credit in this article to "The Wrecking Crew", the studio musicians who created the music for the Beach Boys songs (and so many others). If you watch the documentary on Netflix about The Wrecking Crew you know who made the songs what they were/are in terms of sound.

The Beach Boys were NOTHING without The Wrecking Crew.

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GasLightStreet
The Beach Boys were NOTHING without The Wrecking Crew.

Exaggerate much?

You do realize that "The Wrecking Crew" were not the producers, writers, arrangers or primary vocalists on most of the Beach Boys records, don't you? To state that the Beach Boys were nothing without them, in my opinion would fall a bit closer to a lie than the truth. No doubt they were important to the Beach Boys (and many other artists) but they were in no way everything that you heard on those records. In my opinion anyway.

Peace,
Mr DJA

Does anyone actually like the Beach Boys?

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mr_dja

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GasLightStreet
The Beach Boys were NOTHING without The Wrecking Crew.

Exaggerate much?

You do realize that "The Wrecking Crew" were not the producers, writers, arrangers or primary vocalists on most of the Beach Boys records, don't you? To state that the Beach Boys were nothing without them, in my opinion would fall a bit closer to a lie than the truth. No doubt they were important to the Beach Boys (and many other artists) but they were in no way everything that you heard on those records. In my opinion anyway.

Peace,
Mr DJA

Having read the book, TBB would not have had anything near the sounds they got for their albums - at all - without The Wrecking Crew.

Does anyone actually like the Beach Boys?


Heck yeah .... Don Was and a little old lady from Pasadena



ROCKMAN

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GasLightStreet

Quote
mr_dja

Quote
GasLightStreet
The Beach Boys were NOTHING without The Wrecking Crew.

Exaggerate much?

You do realize that "The Wrecking Crew" were not the producers, writers, arrangers or primary vocalists on most of the Beach Boys records, don't you? To state that the Beach Boys were nothing without them, in my opinion would fall a bit closer to a lie than the truth. No doubt they were important to the Beach Boys (and many other artists) but they were in no way everything that you heard on those records. In my opinion anyway.

Peace,
Mr DJA

Having read the book, TBB would not have had anything near the sounds they got for their albums - at all - without The Wrecking Crew.

What book? I'd like to read it. Even though it sounds like it has a narrow view of the roles of writers, producers, arrangers, etc., I really enjoy reading about music history (just finished a bio on Jaco Pastorious).

Also, don't get me wrong, I'm a huge admirer of the work the Wrecking Crew did for not only the Beach Boys but also many other artists. No doubt I've learned much from studying the work of Carol Kaye and a couple of her method books - the one on sight reading was really good in my opinion.

Peace,
Mr DJA

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GasLightStreet
The Beach Boys were NOTHING without The Wrecking Crew.

I'm copying here a post I made last August from the IORR Wrecking Crew thread...




The Beach Boys DID play their instruments on virtually all of their songs on their first five albums, and on a majority of their hits overall. "Wrecking Crew" folks began to show up on a few songs for their sixth album, "All Summer Long" (in 1964), and then really joined the fray for their next two albums, "Today" and "Summer Days (and Summer Nights)"...although these albums do include two and three tracks, respectively, that don't feature any members of the Wrecking Crew. After that came "Pet Sounds" and the "Smile" sessions (virtually all Wrecking Crew), but even on the albums where the Wrecking Crew dominated the recordings, Carl Wilson still played lead guitar on many songs.

It's great that the Wrecking Crew musicians are getting their deserved recognition after all these years, but in some instances, there's been a bit of revisionist history going too far in the other direction. For instance, in one of the trailers for the film, "Fun, Fun, Fun" is playing in the background...yes, there is some Wrecking Crew participation on the track, but Carl (lead guitar), Brian (Hammond B3 organ solo), Dennis, and Al Jardine all play on it as well.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-03-01 23:08 by Jah Paul.

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Socrates1
Does anyone actually like the Beach Boys?

Yes. I do. For many years they were my favorite act above both the Beatles & the Stones. They're not that high in my listening now but I still give their "Endless Summer" greatest hits album a spin on a regular basis. Fun & Happy listening to my ears.

Peace,
Mr DJA

The Wrecking Crew made their albums happen. They were a huge part of the Beach Boys sound.

The Beach Boys did play on all the early albums, which they deserve credit for.

As for the later mid-'60s albums, the Wrecking Crew does not get enough credit from the music press for helping Brian Wilson advance the sound and production. Brian didn't really know how to write music notation nor was he trained in arranging. So, yeah, they were a big help to him in achieving his music industry legend as a so-called genius. Hal Blaine wrote in his book that while Brian gave them some suggestions, most of the Wrecking Crew musicians created their own parts and wrote them out. It wasn't like when they worked with someone like Burt Bacharach, who actually did pretty much write down the notes they played.

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Socrates1
Does anyone actually like the Beach Boys?

Absolutely, and unapologetically. They were a huge musical part of my teen years and their music will always be special to me, whether Mike Love is a tool or not. I grew up in SoCal, so the beach was where I spent many of my summer days.

I don't care who played the instruments, most Beach Boys classics they could have done acapella and they wouldn't suffer much.

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DaveG

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Socrates1
Does anyone actually like the Beach Boys?

Absolutely, and unapologetically. They were a huge musical part of my teen years and their music will always be special to me, whether Mike Love is a tool or not. I grew up in SoCal, so the beach was where I spent many of my summer days.

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mr_dja

Quote
Socrates1
Does anyone actually like the Beach Boys?

Yes. I do. For many years they were my favorite act above both the Beatles & the Stones. They're not that high in my listening now but I still give their "Endless Summer" greatest hits album a spin on a regular basis. Fun & Happy listening to my ears.

Peace,
Mr DJA

Which one of you is Don Was, and which one of you is the little old lady from Pasadena?

Quote
mr_dja

Quote
Socrates1
Does anyone actually like the Beach Boys?

Yes. I do. For many years they were my favorite act above both the Beatles & the Stones. They're not that high in my listening now but I still give their "Endless Summer" greatest hits album a spin on a regular basis. Fun & Happy listening to my ears.

Peace,
Mr DJA

They are my three favorite acts as well...been that way for over 40 years.

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Socrates1
Does anyone actually like the Beach Boys?

You'd be surprised at how many people I've met that not only love the band but love their late 1960s albums that get overlooked: Friends, 20/20, Sunflower

I heard California Girls on the radio the other day and still, to this day, that intro, the first 30 seconds, is absolutely gorgeous. Perfect in every way.

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tomk

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Socrates1
Does anyone actually like the Beach Boys?

You'd be surprised at how many people I've met that not only love the band but love their late 1960s albums that get overlooked: Friends, 20/20, Sunflower

I heard California Girls on the radio the other day and still, to this day, that intro, the first 30 seconds, is absolutely gorgeous. Perfect in every way.

I'm sure a lot of people like the Beach Boys. I was just being an invisible complainer on the internet. But I didn't understand the original quote from Mike Love. That was rude of Mike Love to say, wasn't it? Probably just sour grapes about Mick Jagger, because the Stones are still incredibly successful... and Mike Love is playing county fairs.

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dmay
Interesting. The feuding among the members of the group reminds me of M and K. Had to check out what the line about Mick being chickensh*t was about. Here's the quote: "I know Mick Jagger won't be here tonight, he's gonna have to stay in England. But I'd like to see us in the Coliseum and he at Wembley Stadium because he's always been chickenshit to get on stage with the Beach Boys." Here's the link to the interview.

[www.rollingstone.com]

The irony was is that Mick WAS there that night to induct The Beatles.
Also the Stones did the TAMI show in the 60's with The Beach Boys, and wiped the floor with them.

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Socrates1

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tomk

Quote
Socrates1
Does anyone actually like the Beach Boys?

You'd be surprised at how many people I've met that not only love the band but love their late 1960s albums that get overlooked: Friends, 20/20, Sunflower

I heard California Girls on the radio the other day and still, to this day, that intro, the first 30 seconds, is absolutely gorgeous. Perfect in every way.

I'm sure a lot of people like the Beach Boys. I was just being an invisible complainer on the internet. But I didn't understand the original quote from Mike Love. That was rude of Mike Love to say, wasn't it? Probably just sour grapes about Mick Jagger, because the Stones are still incredibly successful... and Mike Love is playing county fairs.

Well, that reputation certainly does follow him around, like the article said. I know a guy that worked on some Beach Boys project in that early 1990's, and when Love's name came up, he did a face-palm, sighed and said, "You have no idea what I went through with Mike Love."

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tomk

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Socrates1

Quote
tomk

Quote
Socrates1
Does anyone actually like the Beach Boys?

You'd be surprised at how many people I've met that not only love the band but love their late 1960s albums that get overlooked: Friends, 20/20, Sunflower

I heard California Girls on the radio the other day and still, to this day, that intro, the first 30 seconds, is absolutely gorgeous. Perfect in every way.

I'm sure a lot of people like the Beach Boys. I was just being an invisible complainer on the internet. But I didn't understand the original quote from Mike Love. That was rude of Mike Love to say, wasn't it? Probably just sour grapes about Mick Jagger, because the Stones are still incredibly successful... and Mike Love is playing county fairs.

Well, that reputation certainly does follow him around, like the article said. I know a guy that worked on some Beach Boys project in that early 1990's, and when Love's name came up, he did a face-palm, sighed and said, "You have no idea what I went through with Mike Love."

Yeah, not surprising. Maybe Mike Love should stop being so sassy.



Spinal Tap Beach Boys

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Jah Paul

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GasLightStreet
The Beach Boys were NOTHING without The Wrecking Crew.

I'm copying here a post I made last August from the IORR Wrecking Crew thread...




The Beach Boys DID play their instruments on virtually all of their songs on their first five albums, and on a majority of their hits overall. "Wrecking Crew" folks began to show up on a few songs for their sixth album, "All Summer Long" (in 1964), and then really joined the fray for their next two albums, "Today" and "Summer Days (and Summer Nights)"...although these albums do include two and three tracks, respectively, that don't feature any members of the Wrecking Crew. After that came "Pet Sounds" and the "Smile" sessions (virtually all Wrecking Crew), but even on the albums where the Wrecking Crew dominated the recordings, Carl Wilson still played lead guitar on many songs.

It's great that the Wrecking Crew musicians are getting their deserved recognition after all these years, but in some instances, there's been a bit of revisionist history going too far in the other direction. For instance, in one of the trailers for the film, "Fun, Fun, Fun" is playing in the background...yes, there is some Wrecking Crew participation on the track, but Carl (lead guitar), Brian (Hammond B3 organ solo), Dennis, and Al Jardine all play on it as well.

Top post.
To suggest they were nothing without the Wrecking Crew is bollocks.
Very broadly speaking it is the "artistic" run (Today, Summer Days, Pet Sounds, Smile) that mostly feature session musicians but many tracks on those albums do feature band members too. That's Not Me on Pet Sounds for example features the band playing. Go listen.
In terms of the Wrecking Crew doing arrangements for Brian - listen to the vocal arrangements BW was doing - the guy knew how to arrange. Maybe he couldn't write music notation, so what. If you've ever listened to Beach Boys session tapes you'd know how talented Wilson was until mental illness overtook him. Look at the Pet Sounds wiki for further discussion of Wilson's arranging. He was a man with a plan.
"Surviving tapes of his recording sessions show that he was open to his musicians, often taking advice and suggestions from them and even incorporating apparent mistakes if they provided a useful or interesting alternative. Brian said that he "was sort of a square" with the Wrecking Crew, starting his creative process with how each instrument sounded one-by-one, moving from keyboards, drums, then violins if they were not overdubbed. Although the self-taught Wilson often had entire arrangements worked out in his head, they were usually written in a shorthand form for the other players by one of his session musicians.On notation and arranging, Brian clarified: "Sometimes I'd just write out a chord sheet and that would be for piano, organ, or harpsichord or anything. ... I wrote out all the horn charts separate from the keyboards. I wrote one basic keyboard chart, violins, horns, and basses, and percussion."

Sure The Wrecking Crew were awesome. I must have hundreds of records with the Crew on.

The Stones come after Smile-era Beach Boys for me - kick my ass I don't care.
Music way beyond the Stones/Beatles imaginations and abilities.
Mrs O'leary's Cow won a Grammy for best rock instrumental performance nearly 40 years after it was written. Brian's first Grammy, ironic considering he's so associated with vocals.

Mike Love - every band has a talented ass-hole - Beatles have John, Stones have Brian, Kinks - Ray....the list goes on. Mike has a brilliant "radio voice" and bass singing and while many of his 60s lyrics are sub cheesy, he's written some good 'uns. Lucky for us he meditates or he'd be a lot more unpleasant !
As for Brian, he's not the messiah he's a very naughty boy but at his peak (65-66) he was way beyond any of the classic British acts including the Fab4 and the Stones. He was a rock n roll Charles Ives and then he tipped over the edge.

The band continued to release some exceptional music until the 1972 Holland album. Since then it's been big tours, sub-standard albums and oldies all the way with one or two exceptions - remind you of anyone ?

<he was way beyond any of the classic British acts including the Fab4 and the Stones>.

No, he wasn't. He was great, though.

And, imo, when you have a band that can't excecute the songwriter's ideas fully (or even remotely), that band is not great. Certainly not nowhere near the level of the Beatles and the Stones.

However, the MUSIC was great. The band wasn't.

Respectfully disagree. God Only Knows, Good Vibrations, Cabin Essence, Surf's Up etc. are way beyond Beatles/Stones in terms of melody, arrangement, chord structure, vocal performance.
I know what you're saying in terms of the band but none of those tracks can really be executed by a 5 piece and remember there was hardly any instrumental overdubbing on those tracks. The backing tracks were done pretty much live whereas the Beatles and Stones laid down a basic track of generally standard rock changes and then made embellishments and vocal dubs.
The Stones and Beatles would have struggled to play much of their best 1966/7 output live and it was nowhere near as complex as Wilson's work at that time. The Beatles attempts at Paperback Writer are pretty dire and it's only got 2 chords.
They attempted nothing from Revolver but that was probably as much because they couldn't be bothered as no-one was listening.
While obviously i love the Stones and Beatles etc... Wilson was working in a far more elaborate context - pretty much combining pop with a more orchestral approach. Cellos, trumpets, theremin, harmonicas, timpani, violins, upright bass, flutes, oboes...in addition to several guitars,keyboards,bass and drums/percussion rarely employing studio effects other than reverb/chambers and echo.
How on earth could the Beach Boys touring group have played Mrs O'Leary's Cow live in 1966 ? Doesn't make them bad. They could cover their asses on the surf and cars numbers. Brian just got so ambitious that they couldn't really deliver the goods - I'm willing to bet that even the members of the Beatles and Stones combined could not have pulled off the songs I mentioned. They'd probably have started having trouble at the second chord on the verse of God Only Knows.

Complex doesn't necessarily mean better. And that might be one of the reasons we are doing most of our posting here, and not elsewhere..

We don't disagree much, but personally I find TBB's best stuff a little weaker than that of the Stones and the Beatles.

Oh completely agree that complex isn't necessarily better - like speedy note-run guitar solos aren't necessarily better !
I think perhaps God Only Knows exemplifies what I'm talking about. While the Beatles and Stones rarely stray beyond standard rock changes, the verse of God Only Knows is very unusual by their standards and the modulation thru the "action spot" middle break and chorus and back to the original key for the last verse is extremely clever while remaining as melodic as pop can be. The arrangement is fabulous, no George Martin required.
The sound painting techniques employed on the best Smile work (Cabin Essence, The Elements, Wind Chimes) using specific instruments to represent objects or evoke specific imagery is right out of the Charles Ives handbook.
Ultimately things got so complex that BW had to strip the whole thing back to less than basics, a long time before the White Album and Beggars.
I honestly don't think The Beatles could have played his music in the studio and The Stones wouldn't know where to begin so it's not very fair to criticise The Beach Boys (what was essentially a garage surf outfit) for not coping. I can't actually think of any band pre-68 that could have pulled off BW's most ambitious work.

Either way, Beach Boys, Stones, Dylan, Beatles, Kinks, Yardbirds etc.. all made unbelievably brilliant music in 1966. Has to be one of the top years ever in popular music when you can choose between Revolver, Pet Sounds, Blonde On Blonde etc..
(currently listening to Elvis At Sun - what a voice. Not complex music (!) but the band sound like they're on the edge of their abilities at times..fantastic stuff)

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mr_dja

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GasLightStreet
The Beach Boys were NOTHING without The Wrecking Crew.

Exaggerate much?

You do realize that "The Wrecking Crew" were not the producers, writers, arrangers or primary vocalists on most of the Beach Boys records, don't you? To state that the Beach Boys were nothing without them, in my opinion would fall a bit closer to a lie than the truth. No doubt they were important to the Beach Boys (and many other artists) but they were in no way everything that you heard on those records. In my opinion anyway.

Peace,
Mr DJA

Well thought out. I agree.

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Socrates1

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DaveG

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Socrates1
Does anyone actually like the Beach Boys?

Absolutely, and unapologetically. They were a huge musical part of my teen years and their music will always be special to me, whether Mike Love is a tool or not. I grew up in SoCal, so the beach was where I spent many of my summer days.

Quote
mr_dja

Quote
Socrates1
Does anyone actually like the Beach Boys?

Yes. I do. For many years they were my favorite act above both the Beatles & the Stones. They're not that high in my listening now but I still give their "Endless Summer" greatest hits album a spin on a regular basis. Fun & Happy listening to my ears.

Peace,
Mr DJA

Which one of you is Don Was, and which one of you is the little old lady from Pasadena?

The Beach Boys didnt do Little Old Lady From Pasadina