Quote


Re: Ernie Watts 1981
Posted by: Tops ()
Date: April 22, 2015 16:34

Hampton is probobly my favourite Stones recording...ever

And Ernie Watts is very much the main ingredient in this success.

His style fits so well on the newer - more new wavelike -numbers as well as on the older

ones like YCAGWYW (best version I've ever heard.....and i do love MT and the version from

brussels 73) and LIB.


----

Re: Ernie Watts 1981
Posted by: Zagalo ()
Date: April 23, 2015 01:08

According to Karnbach/Bernson - sax players in 1981 were:



Oct 1 (Metro Center, Rockfield) - "Saxophonist Lee Allen was a special guest at this gig

and went on to Colorado with the band. His performance at this gig was something to see!"

Oct 3 (Folsom Field , Boulder) - "Lee Allen travelled with the band from Rockfield and was

again a special guest on tenor sax. Allen had recorded with Little Richard, Etta James and

Fats Domino in the late 50's-early 60's"

Oct 4 (Folsom Field, Boulder) - "Lee Allen was special guest on sax"

Oct 7 (Jack Murphy Stadium, San Diego) - Ernie Watts

Oct 9 (Memorial Coliseum, Los Angeles) - Ernie Watts plus "Bobby Keys joined the tour at

this performance; the backup musicians now included two sax players. Keys does a solo on

Brown Sugar. (Also the show where Prince left the stage after 4 songs when garbage was

thrown at him)"



According to Nico's website:

Lee Allen (sax; 1st - 4th October)/

Ernie Watts (sax; from 7th October onwards)/

Bobby Keys (sax; on Let It Bleed and Brown Sugar from 24th October onwards)

-----------


Re: Ernie Watts 1981
Posted by: dcba ()
Date: April 23, 2015 19:35

Quote
Zagalo
According to Karnbach/Bernson...
According to Nico's website...

Some clarification would be welcome...

Zentgraf's right : the tour started without a sax player. Then the band thought it would be

cool to add a legend to the band's sound but Lee Allen played very poorly during the shows

he guested on : he didn't "feel" the music and unlike Watts his licks often clashed with

the guitars or the vocals.

So almost overnight the Stones had to find a replacement... Watts did an oustanding job

imo.


----------

Re: Ernie Watts 1981
Posted by: Tops ()
Date: April 22, 2015 16:34



I'm finding what people think about the sax players in 1981 tour.

I do wonder why there was no sax player in the beginning? Ernie couldn't make it. Bobby was

preoccupied (I heard drugs but he was on tour right)? Was there not to be a sax player,

doesn't seem likely.


-----------

Re: Ernie Watts 1981
Posted by: 2120Wolf ()
Date: April 23, 2015 21:44


----------_==========

Ian MacLagan had a nice story about the money -he negotioated the money with Jagger, and

Ian was under the impression he was discussing a lumped sum for the total tour, while

Jagger was talking about an amount sum per gig. I believe it was in the region of $30K per

night.

Ernie Watts didn't like touring with the Stones as he felt totally secluded from normal

life, and he was completely on his own. He said he played a gig for 1 hour, then spend 2

days in his hotel room waiting for the next gig. He didn't have any interaction with any of

the Stones or touring entourage.

Mathijs


-----------


Nothing not to love except most of the shows sucked. Played way to fast and way to thin.

For the most part they just butchered their own songs.

Hampton was of course was an exception and to me the Ernie Watts parts were the best. Don't

know why he sounded so different then others but he did and it worked.

The thin sound is mostly due to the fact that so many shows are available in poor monitor

soundboards and the badly recorded Let's Spend movie. Listen to the professionally recorded

shows like both Hampton shows, the Wolfgang shows and the KBFH broadcasts, and to the

audience boots and you hear that they actually sounded full and big, very warm and bold

sounding.

Mathijs

---------------

It was a struggle between Jagger and Richards -Jagger wanted to tour with a brass section,

Richards wanted a stripped down version of the Stones with only a piano player. After

auditions of various pianists they settled on Stu and Ian MacLagan. After the dissastrous

Philly opening shows, and the subpar Buffalo show, Jagger insisted in getting a sax player.

They hired Ernie Watts, who had problems playing raunchy RnR solo's, so they took Bobby

Keys onboard starting in LA, October 9, to play on LIB and BS. Apperently Jagger also

wanted to hire the horn section of The Tower of Power after their guest stint in San

Francisco.

Mathijs


------------





Mathijs, you are an amazing and most knowledgeable Rolling Stones fan. What you say here

makes much sense. I'm wonder how do you know, "It was a struggle between Jagger and

Richards -Jagger wanted to tour with a brass section, Richards wanted a stripped down

version of the Stones with only a piano player."

I'm also wondering how do you know, "Jagger insisted in getting a sax player."

And, "They hired Ernie Watts, who had problems playing raunchy RnR solo's, so they took

Bobby Keys on board starting in LA, October 9, to play on LIB and BS."

And, "Apparently Jagger also wanted to hire the horn section of The Tower of Power after

their guest stint in San Francisco."

Tower of Power played with the Stones in San Francisco? I had no idea. I learn a lot from

you over the years. Than you for your input. Much appreciated. I'd love to know your

sources.



--------------

Re: Ernie Watts 1981
Posted by: Eleanor Rigby ()
Date: April 28, 2015 21:33

Classic player.
The irony is that some posters say his playing is amazing yet bag Mick Taylor for

overplaying...go figure.

ernie watts overplayed during the 81 tour. ..at times he ruined it.
maybe he was simply too brilliant for the band..in the same way Mick Taylor was.
I hate the moments he played too much during the stinkin 1981 US tour.
Well...the tour rocked!! Haha


------------------


Re: Ernie Watts 1981
Posted by: DandelionPowderman ()
Date: April 28, 2015 22:21

Quote
Stoneage:

Ernie did not only do the standard horn section bits but interacted with the band and kept

the songs, and the sometimes astray guitarists, together. Kind of like a third, very

reliable, guitarist.

It would have been interesting to hear what Perks, Watts and maybe Jagger has to say about

Ernie's contribution to the 81 tour.

DandelionPowderman:

Indeed. He was the glue. In a way he was Chuck with good taste, imo.

----------


Re: 81
Posted by: TooTough ()
Date: April 28, 2015 23:56

Quote
Mathijs
BY his own account he hated touring with the Stones in 81, and declined for the 82 tour.

Mathijs



Well, on that "Just for the record" DVD boxset Ernie Watts is talking
nicely about the tour and the Stones.

1. "Mick asked Quincy Jones if he knew a good sax player"
2. "San Diego was my audition - in front of 80.000 people"
3. "The Stones are like a jazz band - playing different every night"
4. And he is talking respectfully about every member of the band.


------------


dcba:

"Lee Allen was there for a few shows prior to that..."

He sucked badly and he was sent home quickly. EW obviously was a fast learner and he

developped a fantastic musical chemistry with the band.


-------------



Re: Ernie Watts
Posted by: StonesTod ()
Date: February 2, 2012 21:37

Quote
dadrob
EW played with Zappa and was in the Tonight Show band when Johnny Carson had the show..he

is a great musician.. I read somewhere that Sonny Rollins was offered the spot but while he

liked the money offered he did not want to become the "jazz featurette."

StonesTod:

i had never heard that about rollins. if true, he made a bad call...ernie wound up becoming

the 3rd (or 4th if you like) "guitarist" in the band...he was no featurette...

-------

Re: Ernie Watts
Posted by: Stoneage ()
Date: February 3, 2012 00:51

Agree with Gazza here. He blends in perfectly and is both solid and fluent. Maybe some

don't like him because he is too good? Or because he didn't look like a rock star (half

bald and older)?

---------

Re: Ernie Watts
Posted by: stonesdan60 ()
Date: February 3, 2012 10:46

I remember back around the time of the '81 tour a local radio station did a special on the

Stones that included interviews with band members, including Ernie Watts. He came across as

a pretty cool guy who really "got" what the Stones at that time were all about. When asked

about the difference between playing jazz and playing rock and roll with the Stones, he

said (may not be verbatim), "Playing with the Stones is exactly like playing with a jazz

band. Everything is improvisation. Some nights solos may be longer or shorter or someone

might just launch into a solo that leads to a fantastic unplanned jam. It's all intuition

and reading each other. The Stones work just like a jazz band."

I miss those days. I still love the Stones but everything's too planned out in advance for

the kind of spontaneity Watts described in 1981.


---------


Re: Ernie Watts
Posted by: Eleanor Rigby ()
Date: February 3, 2012 15:12


steel Driving Hammer:

Hats off to Ernie. Seriously. God he's good ain't he?



Gazza:

Not to everyone's taste it appears, but I think he's f***ing brilliant on these shows.



Eleanor Rigby:

technically brilliant...BUT...played too long during songs!! Stones fans are used to

intricate sax moments in songs, not over blown solos that went too long...and then proceed

to dominate the rest of the songs! it's just annoying to me....sorry!



DandelionPowderman:

It had to do with the material the Stones were playing at the time, imo. Songs like Waiting

On A Friend, Imagination and Beast Of Burden are perfect for long sax parts.


Ross:


I find him quite annoying. I thought his licks were repetitive and he overplayed. That

little riff that he repeats ad nauseum throughout "Waiting On A Friend" ruins it for me. A

far cry from Sonny Rollins brilliant, soulful take on the album.

The instrumental break in YCAGWYW goes nowhere, especially compared to the Brussel's

version, where MT's melodic solo seems to melt into Trevor Lawrence's fat, soulful finish.

His showpiece, "Just My Imagination", again, too repetitive. He seems to be competing with

the guitars. I would much rather hear some Keith/Ronnie guitar interplay without the

annoying squawking going on.

Aside from that, I like the new Hampton release more than I thought I would. Better than I

remembered it from the boots back in the day. 81 is not a year I have listened to much over

the years (even though it is certainly well-documented on boots!) but the improved mix

really improves this one! I just have to try to tune out the sax!

(IMHO disclaimer here)



Eleanor Rigby:

i dont mind long sax parts, but sax parts during guitar solos and singing...sorry not for

me. Just listening to Hampton and songs like Let It Bleed etc.. dont and shouldn't have sax

in them. I reckon they let him do whatever because of his talent.



StonesTod:

Let It Bleed was made for the saxophone...and i believe that's bobby wailing away on the

hampton version...



stonesdan60:

Mathijs:
Just to note -Ernie Watts apparently hated touring with the Stones, even so much that he

declined for the 1982 tour. He stated in a 90's interview that he spent 23 hours per day on

his hotel room, and then was dragged out onto the stage. He said that he didn't have a

social life for two months, and that he didn't have any interaction with any of the Stones

when they weren't on the stage. He did admire Bobby Keys deeply for not complaining, as

Keys was in the same position and even only played on two tracks per show.

stonesdan60:
That's interesting. Maybe the rigors of a long tour wore Ernie out and changed his opinion.

But the radio interview I heard was done mid-tour, and when asked what it was like touring

with the Stones, he said, "It's fantastic. It's the greatest road trip in the world. They

spare no expense to provide the greatest comfort, the greatest food, the greatest travel

arrangements. I'm having a great time. Everything is luxury to the max." (may not be

verbatim)



StonesTod:


chrism13:
I don't think I have heard a good version of Let it Bleed since the '81-2 tour. Great

song..but seems later versions were uninspiring.

they dropped it part-way through the '82 tour in favor of...gasp...Angie!

StonesTod:
I agree...'81 set a standard for this song that was never even approached on subsequent

tries...I'm sure someone will blame chuck if you give it a few minutes....



exilestones:
I heard Ernie was planned for the tour before it began but had other commiments. He wasn't able for the first few show. The Stones ran in to Lee Allen and asked him to play a few shows that fit Lee's schedule.

Bobby wasn't fit to go on tour due to drug use. Mick didn't want him. Keith Hired Bobby to play on Brown Sugar and Keith paid him out of his own money. Bobby first appeared as a guest in LA.

This is what I heard.

I thought Ernie was great but over played. Listening to 1981 shows there's too much Ernie. Some examples are You Can't Always Get What You Want (every show) and Waiting on a Friend (King Biscuit) on the Detroit December 1st show.

Some how Waiting on a Friend really came together at Hampton, particularly for Ernie.

Listening to Booby play on Going to a Go-Go in 1982 (I think it was Bobby) makes me appreciate how great Ernie played on Going to a Go-Go. The 1982 Go-Go sax wasn't as good. He really help make that song great and helped the Stones have a new sound.

Quote
alexander paul
In the meantime I have watched a couple of videos.
It looks like Ernie Watts played on Neighbours, Black limousine, Just my imagination, Let me go, Beast of burden, Waiting on a friend, You can't always get ..., Miss you, Honky tonk women, Brown sugar. Later on Going to a go go (played by the band from Nov. 3rd), he probably did not play on Let it bleed. In the Hampton show of Dec. 18, Bobby Keys played on Let it bleed and Brown sugar and both Bobby and Ernie played on Honky tonk women. If I am right ...., sometimes the videos are of bad quality, dark and there was hardly a spotlight on the sax solo's.

Alex.