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Mathijs

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DonParker
True. And the track was never overdubbed. That's what fascinates me most. All the stories about guitar overdubs, acoustic guitars, these tracks just don't exist, unless someone can post it.

They do exist. There's half a dozen versions available in (a very limited) tape trader circle. The versions have various overdubs that all were wiped: acoustic guitars, two attempts at percussion, 3 takes with Henry Rollins etc.

But, on all versions the electric guitar remains the same, as do the piano, bass and drums.

Mathijs

I have from a very reliable source that the B-side of the new album will consist of all outtakes from Waiting On A Friend. But please, let's keep this between us all, they'd kill me if it would come out too soon.

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DonParker

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Mathijs

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DonParker
True. And the track was never overdubbed. That's what fascinates me most. All the stories about guitar overdubs, acoustic guitars, these tracks just don't exist, unless someone can post it.

They do exist. There's half a dozen versions available in (a very limited) tape trader circle. The versions have various overdubs that all were wiped: acoustic guitars, two attempts at percussion, 3 takes with Henry Rollins etc.

But, on all versions the electric guitar remains the same, as do the piano, bass and drums.

Mathijs

I have heard several WAOF boots, from several real hardcore collectors, no such tape ever popped up. An if these versions you mention do have overdubs that are wiped, how do we know they existed with acoustics in the first place? That's a funny contradiction to me.. But please go ahead, post them somewhere.

First -I hate it when people say 'I have a recording, and you don't, and I can't share it with you'. So, my apologies for doing just exactly this.

But there's a dozen or so tapes available with just about any track from 1977 to 1983 that Zentgraf mentions on his website. Quite some of it has been released over the last year, but there's still quite some unreleased. Check out his entry of November/December 1982: everything is available.

I have it, but I do not OWN it. The guys whom own it plan on releasing it, but to date this has not happened yet.

Anyways. On the WOAF outtakes you can hear several instrumental parts and vocals that have been overdubbed in 1981 that haven't been used on the final version. The acoustic guitar, some percussion, some extra vocals, 3 Henry Rollins tracks. The same with Slave by the way -there's a couple of versions with added sound effects, an added organ etc. that were later wiped for the final release.

Mathijs

"3 Henry Rollins tracks"

I'm sure you mean Sonny Rollins!


"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"

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Mathijs

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DonParker

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Mathijs

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DonParker
True. And the track was never overdubbed. That's what fascinates me most. All the stories about guitar overdubs, acoustic guitars, these tracks just don't exist, unless someone can post it.

They do exist. There's half a dozen versions available in (a very limited) tape trader circle. The versions have various overdubs that all were wiped: acoustic guitars, two attempts at percussion, 3 takes with Henry Rollins etc.

But, on all versions the electric guitar remains the same, as do the piano, bass and drums.

Mathijs

I have heard several WAOF boots, from several real hardcore collectors, no such tape ever popped up. An if these versions you mention do have overdubs that are wiped, how do we know they existed with acoustics in the first place? That's a funny contradiction to me.. But please go ahead, post them somewhere.

First -I hate it when people say 'I have a recording, and you don't, and I can't share it with you'. So, my apologies for doing just exactly this.

But there's a dozen or so tapes available with just about any track from 1977 to 1983 that Zentgraf mentions on his website. Quite some of it has been released over the last year, but there's still quite some unreleased. Check out his entry of November/December 1982: everything is available.

I have it, but I do not OWN it. The guys whom own it plan on releasing it, but to date this has not happened yet.

Anyways. On the WOAF outtakes you can hear several instrumental parts and vocals that have been overdubbed in 1981 that haven't been used on the final version. The acoustic guitar, some percussion, some extra vocals, 3 Henry Rollins tracks. The same with Slave by the way -there's a couple of versions with added sound effects, an added organ etc. that were later wiped for the final release.

Mathijs

No need to apologise

I contacted Nico a year ago about the subject who played the electric on WOAF and all he said was that he only relies on your expertise (WOAF), so the recordings he has (or writes about on his site) don't prove who played this precious track. Thanks for your extended reply anyway.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-06-01 20:57 by DonParker.

I hear an acoustic guitar, buried, but it's there. It can't be an echo because the electric is playing a different rhythm. On the released version listen close at the 3 minute mark.,. you can hear the chime of a steel string acoustic guitar. It's audible at other parts as well.





It's more audible in this version:





Could this be Mick Taylor's alleged contribution, as it would be pretty hard for Richards to play two guitars at once on a basic tracking session, or could it be picked-up from Jagger's vocal mic while he strummed? Hard to say, but I find it strange Taylor said he played on it if he didn't.

Nothing?

--------Edit.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-12-01 22:17 by TheflyingDutchman.

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Mathijs

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DonParker
True. And the track was never overdubbed. That's what fascinates me most. All the stories about guitar overdubs, acoustic guitars, these tracks just don't exist, unless someone can post it.

They do exist. There's half a dozen versions available in (a very limited) tape trader circle. The versions have various overdubs that all were wiped: acoustic guitars, two attempts at percussion, 3 takes with Henry Rollins etc.

But, on all versions the electric guitar remains the same, as do the piano, bass and drums.

Mathijs

Now, a version of WOAF featuring Henry Rollins would be something to
behold

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MelBelli

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Mathijs

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DonParker
True. And the track was never overdubbed. That's what fascinates me most. All the stories about guitar overdubs, acoustic guitars, these tracks just don't exist, unless someone can post it.

They do exist. There's half a dozen versions available in (a very limited) tape trader circle. The versions have various overdubs that all were wiped: acoustic guitars, two attempts at percussion, 3 takes with Henry Rollins etc.

But, on all versions the electric guitar remains the same, as do the piano, bass and drums.

Mathijs

Now, a version of WOAF featuring Henry Rollins would be something to
behold

I was hoping for Laurel and Hardy actually.

Or Sonny Terry...

Hmm. It didn’t work? I’ll have to try again when I get home.

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TravelinMan
Hmm. It didn’t work? I’ll have to try again when I get home.

If you post both the "https" and "http"-links they will be visible on cell phones as well.

edit.

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DandelionPowderman

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TravelinMan
Hmm. It didn’t work? I’ll have to try again when I get home.

If you post both the "https" and "http"-links they will be visible on cell phones as well.

Thanks!

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TheflyingDutchman

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TravelinMan
Hmm. It didn’t work? I’ll have to try again when I get home.

I listened very close (again) to the links you provided. There's no acoustic guitar, you probably hear shades / the reverb from the electric guitar mixed with the piano.

I think it’s being picked up from the vocal mic or it’s very low in the mix. It’s there. It’s a different rhythm so it can’t be an echo. I’ll pull it into Pro Tools in a bit. It’s unmistakable on the Tattoo You version at 3:00.

edit

Where will the IORR band Ben playing in The USA ?

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TravelinMan
I hear an acoustic guitar, buried, but it's there. It can't be an echo because the electric is playing a different rhythm. On the released version listen close at the 3 minute mark.,. you can hear the chime of a steel string acoustic guitar. It's audible at other parts as well.





It's more audible in this version:





Could this be Mick Taylor's alleged contribution, as it would be pretty hard for Richards to play two guitars at once on a basic tracking session, or could it be picked-up from Jagger's vocal mic while he strummed? Hard to say, but I find it strange Taylor said he played on it if he didn't.

It could be anybody; but I heard it today too. I was listening to some Place Pigalle boots, and there is an early version with Jagger singing in falsetto; he already has some of the words. But I hear an acoustic in there. It is hard to puck up because it is right with the Hi Hat; location wise, and rhythmically too. It is much like the acoustic in 'Dead Flowers'; kind of bouncy. What makes it even harder to pick up is that the main electric already sounds a good bit like an acoustic.
It's an interesting question if they kept it in there; because Keith likes those implied acoustics. It would make sense that they kept it, but around "Tattoo You" it seems they started seeing things a bit different. Their sound became cleaner in places.

I remember way back MT did not know of the release of Tops and Waiting on a Friend and John Mayall mentioned something to him before the 1982 reunion tour with the bluesbreakers about song royalties

There definitely is acoustic guitar on WOAF, as said, right about 3 minutes in.

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Mathijs

Anyways. On the WOAF outtakes you can hear several instrumental parts and vocals that have been overdubbed in 1981 that haven't been used on the final version. The acoustic guitar, some percussion, some extra vocals, 3 Henry Rollins tracks. The same with Slave by the way -there's a couple of versions with added sound effects, an added organ etc. that were later wiped for the final release.

Mathijs

Don't know if the tapes Mathijs is referring to are the Collins tapes that were recently made available on the Hot Stuff Section.

Anyways, at last I got the chance to listen to these by now mythological "acoustic" versions of Friend.

My questions are: how do we know that ALL these acoustic tracks were overdubbed in 81 and were not already there at the time the electric track was done?

And who plays on them?

Reason why I ask is that I think there is more than one player. Or one player who plays different strumming patterns. On one in particular Keith is quite recognizable. I guess none are played by Ronnie (his strumming on acoustic is quite distinctive).

C



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-02-24 17:01 by liddas.

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liddas

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Mathijs

Anyways. On the WOAF outtakes you can hear several instrumental parts and vocals that have been overdubbed in 1981 that haven't been used on the final version. The acoustic guitar, some percussion, some extra vocals, 3 Henry Rollins tracks. The same with Slave by the way -there's a couple of versions with added sound effects, an added organ etc. that were later wiped for the final release.

Mathijs

Don't know if the tapes Mathijs is referring to are the Collins tapes that were recently made available on the Hot Stuff Section.

Anyways, at last I got the chance to listen to these by now mythological "acoustic" versions of Friend.

My questions are: how do we know that ALL these acoustic tracks were overdubbed in 81 and were not already there at the time the electric track was done?

And who plays on them?

Reason why I ask is that I think there is more than one player. Or one player who plays different strumming patterns. On one in particular Keith is quite recognizable. I guess none are played by Ronnie (his strumming on acoustic is quite distinctive).

C

Good question....I'll need to hear it!

Has anyone heard the “lossless” version of tattoo you on Apple Music? It’s the first time I can actually hear the acoustic guitars on the released song.

I’m sure with the remastering and “Dolby Atmos” for the forthcoming reissue, it’ll be even more audible.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-10-17 05:08 by CamRS.

If you isolate the bass it sounds like it could be Taylor

Play it in tampa???