Tell Me :
Talk
On the other hand, I can see why Mick would be reluctant. There is nothing the Stones can do with blues that hasn't already been done a million times before, and far better (particularly by them in their prime). I don't know if there's some unique take the Stones and some hotshot producer can add to the blues to make it artistically worthwhile, to REALLY crack the code and go deeper into the medium.
As joyous as it is to hear the Stones jamming to the blues, I see the risk of such a project coming off as too safe and conservative.
A very good point. 'Back to roots' aka blues album sounds as good as it has always done in a theory, but a deeper reflection on the idea, as you do here, shows the limitations of it. If their (Mick) heart and dedication is not really into it - like it was back in teh day when they were young and eager and inspired of it - the results would easily turn out to be damn mediocre and boring. I guess we all know how phony and mechanical playing a simple form of music like blues can sound like if you really don't have the right feeling or the point (there are thousands bands playing stuff like that every night at your local).
For the last 40 plus years or so, the Stones have recorded some basic blues tracks per album sessions, sometimes released best and most 'different' of them on albums (and single B-sides), but think of them that they would make a whole album from that kind of material and made that exciting would ask them find some new spark, some extra motivation. One could test the idea by listening one by one their blues cuts from STEEL WHEELS on - there is almost an album worth of material now. All of them sound good in their own context - making a difference - but if listened as a whole, they start sound rather one-dimensional. Try it! (I once made a Stones blues collection, can be found in the pages of IORR, and that project made me realize that).
It's pretty hard for me to see to them finding that new spark. Like they can't go on a studio and say, let's make a new LETIT BLEED or EXILE ON MAIN STREET or even SOME GIRLS, they can't recreate their great blues days. They are different people these days.
I think the 'problem' is that the blues is their 'home vocabulary'. That's music with which they learned the game, made their master's degree. I guess they still start their sessions by playing it (and they, as Keefriff99 says, always sound good doing that). Just to warm up, to get the feel. But I am afraid that's the stage it remains for them. That's the start to get somewhere else. Like their whole career been's like. I think it would ask them a whole different mind set to really see it as an aim of itself, not just a means.
To say it more clearly: it is refreshening to hear a thing like "Fancy Man Blues" once in a while (could be my favourite track from whole STEEL WHEELS project) - and you can say the same about "The Storm" in regards to VOODOO LOUNGe or "Back of My Hand" A BIGGER BANG as well - but if you put twelve or more of them one after other, the charm and excitement might quite easily fade way...
But then again, if repeating the model of A BIGGER BANG would be the (realistic) alternative - that of representing the music of The Stones Today - I don't know if that blues album would have been such a bad idea...
Just do the album, be it whatever, and release it, for god's sake!
- Doxa
That's their strength AND their weakness, imo.
I guess Sir Elton also belongs to very first generation of (usually London-based) Stones fans, like many upcoming rock stars from those days do. So when he talks about the Stones doing the blues, I suppose there is a lot of nostalgia in his mind also. He was there, as a teenager kid, playing piano in his band Bluesology, when the Stones made a breakthrough with that kind of material he loved. His mentioning of "Come On" cannot be co-incidential. That song meant something back in the day (and who else, than a true fan, even knows that song these days?).
I guess we could hear similar comments from people like Clapton, Townshend, etc. Their perspective into the Stones is unique, being actual fans and inspired by them or by their example - and thereby the Stones being a head above of all them rest, no matter what would happen in future. Probably Ronnie Wood in the band represents this similar 'fan' perspective (probably even too much...). I don't know if Jagger ever realizes how important they actually were and what a huge impact they made back then when they were 'just' playing and recording with a success the blues covers. Yesterday's Papers and not such a big deal for him I guess... (but I guess it all happened so quickly, and they had so much things to do and do it so fast - no time to reflect things like that at the time.)
- Doxa
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2016-01-14 12:40 by Doxa.
Exactly!
- Doxa
All these advices - and now from Elton John of all people.
VL, BTB and ABB might not reach former hights (but the highlight-tracks are close), but are stronger efforts than other acts from their generation. Young, Macca,John, Dylan (Time out of mind beeing a possible exception), Cohen etc.
The concern on my part is that "Mick will do what Mick wants to do". The Stones are not Electronica, they are not Alternative, they are not Rap. They are Rock n' Roll and it's time for a Rock n' Roll album in 2016.
Talk about your favorite band.
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Elton John's Suggestion to the Rolling Stones
Posted by:
MisterDDDD
()
Date: January 14, 2016 06:24
What should the Rolling Stones do?
Make a blues record says Sir Elton
"The Rolling Stones still tour despite the interpersonal relationships of the band (“Mick and Keith, they’re fighting all the time,” John said). There’s a solution he sees as the most prudent: Get back in the studio and record their first album since 2005’s A Bigger Bang. But not any type of album — a blues one, a throwback to their debut single “Come On.” “I think Mick [Jagger] wants to still be one of them on the radio — they’re not — and I think Keith would love to do a record like that,” John said “That’s what they should be doing. I’ve tried to tell Mick that. I’ve put him together with T. Bone [Burnett], but, ‘Nah, he uses all those old-fashioned equipment.’”
[www.ew.com]
Make a blues record says Sir Elton
"The Rolling Stones still tour despite the interpersonal relationships of the band (“Mick and Keith, they’re fighting all the time,” John said). There’s a solution he sees as the most prudent: Get back in the studio and record their first album since 2005’s A Bigger Bang. But not any type of album — a blues one, a throwback to their debut single “Come On.” “I think Mick [Jagger] wants to still be one of them on the radio — they’re not — and I think Keith would love to do a record like that,” John said “That’s what they should be doing. I’ve tried to tell Mick that. I’ve put him together with T. Bone [Burnett], but, ‘Nah, he uses all those old-fashioned equipment.’”
[www.ew.com]
Re: Elton John's Suggestion to the Rolling Stones
Posted by:
Turner
()
Date: January 14, 2016 06:39
He's got a point and it would probably sound pretty good if they actually collaborated on the music and spent time as a band massaging the tunes like they did in the old days.
Re: Elton John's Suggestion to the Rolling Stones
Posted by:
Maindefender
()
Date: January 14, 2016 06:54
This to me is very telling, even admitting that Mick and Keith fight all the time. Even Elton seems to side with most Stones fans point of view on what direction a new album should take.
Re: Elton John's Suggestion to the Rolling Stones
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: January 14, 2016 08:51
Hats off to Elton, but many of us have been saying this for years!
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Re: Elton John's Suggestion to the Rolling Stones
Posted by:
keefriff99
()
Date: January 14, 2016 09:02
Indeed. This is not exactly a deeply profound and revelatory sentiment that Elton is expressing, particularly amongst us die-hard fans. Nevertheless, I agree with him to a point.Quote
Hairball
Hats off to Elton, but many of us have been saying this for years!
On the other hand, I can see why Mick would be reluctant. There is nothing the Stones can do with blues that hasn't already been done a million times before, and far better (particularly by them in their prime). I don't know if there's some unique take the Stones and some hotshot producer can add to the blues to make it artistically worthwhile, to REALLY crack the code and go deeper into the medium.
As joyous as it is to hear the Stones jamming to the blues, I see the risk of such a project coming off as too safe and conservative.
Re: Elton John's Suggestion to the Rolling Stones
Posted by:
Come On
()
Date: January 14, 2016 09:14
My advice is: Make a Jazz record! We got Charlie and Darryl for the groundbeat sooooo....
2 1 2 0
2 1 2 0
Re: Elton John's Suggestion to the Rolling Stones
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: January 14, 2016 10:01
Quote
keefriff99
On the other hand, I can see why Mick would be reluctant. There is nothing the Stones can do with blues that hasn't already been done a million times before, and far better (particularly by them in their prime). I don't know if there's some unique take the Stones and some hotshot producer can add to the blues to make it artistically worthwhile, to REALLY crack the code and go deeper into the medium.
As joyous as it is to hear the Stones jamming to the blues, I see the risk of such a project coming off as too safe and conservative.
A very good point. 'Back to roots' aka blues album sounds as good as it has always done in a theory, but a deeper reflection on the idea, as you do here, shows the limitations of it. If their (Mick) heart and dedication is not really into it - like it was back in teh day when they were young and eager and inspired of it - the results would easily turn out to be damn mediocre and boring. I guess we all know how phony and mechanical playing a simple form of music like blues can sound like if you really don't have the right feeling or the point (there are thousands bands playing stuff like that every night at your local).
For the last 40 plus years or so, the Stones have recorded some basic blues tracks per album sessions, sometimes released best and most 'different' of them on albums (and single B-sides), but think of them that they would make a whole album from that kind of material and made that exciting would ask them find some new spark, some extra motivation. One could test the idea by listening one by one their blues cuts from STEEL WHEELS on - there is almost an album worth of material now. All of them sound good in their own context - making a difference - but if listened as a whole, they start sound rather one-dimensional. Try it! (I once made a Stones blues collection, can be found in the pages of IORR, and that project made me realize that).
It's pretty hard for me to see to them finding that new spark. Like they can't go on a studio and say, let's make a new LETIT BLEED or EXILE ON MAIN STREET or even SOME GIRLS, they can't recreate their great blues days. They are different people these days.
I think the 'problem' is that the blues is their 'home vocabulary'. That's music with which they learned the game, made their master's degree. I guess they still start their sessions by playing it (and they, as Keefriff99 says, always sound good doing that). Just to warm up, to get the feel. But I am afraid that's the stage it remains for them. That's the start to get somewhere else. Like their whole career been's like. I think it would ask them a whole different mind set to really see it as an aim of itself, not just a means.
To say it more clearly: it is refreshening to hear a thing like "Fancy Man Blues" once in a while (could be my favourite track from whole STEEL WHEELS project) - and you can say the same about "The Storm" in regards to VOODOO LOUNGe or "Back of My Hand" A BIGGER BANG as well - but if you put twelve or more of them one after other, the charm and excitement might quite easily fade way...
But then again, if repeating the model of A BIGGER BANG would be the (realistic) alternative - that of representing the music of The Stones Today - I don't know if that blues album would have been such a bad idea...
Just do the album, be it whatever, and release it, for god's sake!
- Doxa
Re: Elton John's Suggestion to the Rolling Stones
Posted by:
Rockman
()
Date: January 14, 2016 10:30
Make a R&B album .....
ROCKMAN
ROCKMAN
Re: Elton John's Suggestion to the Rolling Stones
Posted by:
marcovandereijk
()
Date: January 14, 2016 10:32
Doxa, I have to agree with you (on this subject).
The blues is a good starting point to get warmed up as a band, but what made the great
Stones albums great, is what they did after the warm up. There's not much gained by adding
"new" blues licks to the already impressive repertoire. Songs like The Storm, Back of my hand
and even Keith's Crosseyed Heart are nice, but they've done all these things before
and many times more convincingly.
The most interesting things happen when they step a little out of the blues format and
let the music take control. The most interesting song on Keith's solo album (to me) is
Substantial Damage. If Mick would give the band the room to manoeuvre like that, before
he takes over the control by adding vocal lines, we might get some nice results.
Just as long as the guitar plays, let it steal your heart away
The blues is a good starting point to get warmed up as a band, but what made the great
Stones albums great, is what they did after the warm up. There's not much gained by adding
"new" blues licks to the already impressive repertoire. Songs like The Storm, Back of my hand
and even Keith's Crosseyed Heart are nice, but they've done all these things before
and many times more convincingly.
The most interesting things happen when they step a little out of the blues format and
let the music take control. The most interesting song on Keith's solo album (to me) is
Substantial Damage. If Mick would give the band the room to manoeuvre like that, before
he takes over the control by adding vocal lines, we might get some nice results.
Just as long as the guitar plays, let it steal your heart away
Re: Elton John's Suggestion to the Rolling Stones
Posted by:
odean73
()
Date: January 14, 2016 11:09
Quote
Come On
My advice is: Make a Jazz record! We got Charlie and Darryl for the groundbeat sooooo....
Re: Elton John's Suggestion to the Rolling Stones
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: January 14, 2016 11:27
But anyway, Sir Elton is morally right: there is no point in trying to catch the radio air waves these days - that's out of their scope (well, in America that is - in Europe new Stones songs still got quite a lot of air play, and the singles still chart somehow). So, the way I read Elton's comment is more like: Mick, don't try any longer be so 'pop', you are doomed to fail. Instead, just trust on your artistic instincts, and do what you please. Whatever. His attempt to get Mick into T.Bone Burnett is an interesting detail, even though failed.
But if someone like Elton John cannot convince Sir Mick, I don't know who can... (Keith, surely not!). Probably David Bowie should have said something similar... That said, I hope Jagger's beautiful comment of being always inspired of Bowie still holds on. With his very last, incredible effort Bowie really showed that making records still matter, and that of releasing new music is what makes one a performing artist, and something to be remembered for (even when you are not any longer there to check the sales). I hope some of that artistic spirit affects on Mick, and we will hear the results soon...
- Doxa
But if someone like Elton John cannot convince Sir Mick, I don't know who can... (Keith, surely not!). Probably David Bowie should have said something similar... That said, I hope Jagger's beautiful comment of being always inspired of Bowie still holds on. With his very last, incredible effort Bowie really showed that making records still matter, and that of releasing new music is what makes one a performing artist, and something to be remembered for (even when you are not any longer there to check the sales). I hope some of that artistic spirit affects on Mick, and we will hear the results soon...
- Doxa
Re: Elton John's Suggestion to the Rolling Stones
Posted by:
StonedAsia
()
Date: January 14, 2016 11:32
EJ as a legitimate point. The 'old equipment' excuse of Mick's is what bothers me. Keith gets it. I'm sure Ronnie and Charlie would love to use some of that 'old equipment' and make a smokin' hot bluesy record. Come on, Mick. Lighten up and just do it.
Re: Elton John's Suggestion to the Rolling Stones
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: January 14, 2016 11:33
I'd take a «back to the roots»-album any day, but please, stay away from T-Bone Burnett. His work with Mellencamp was interesting as an experiment. However, the sound was one-dimensional and boring, imo. A couple of songs recorded that way could be cool, though.
Here's a taste of that sound:
[www.youtube.com]
Here's a taste of that sound:
[www.youtube.com]
Re: Elton John's Suggestion to the Rolling Stones
Posted by:
Rockman
()
Date: January 14, 2016 11:34
YEAH T-Bone Burnett zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
ROCKMAN
ROCKMAN
Re: Elton John's Suggestion to the Rolling Stones
Posted by:
Come On
()
Date: January 14, 2016 11:41
Ha Ha that's not T-Bone Steak...
2 1 2 0
2 1 2 0
Re: Elton John's Suggestion to the Rolling Stones
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: January 14, 2016 11:45
Before this turns an T-Bone Burnett bashing competition, let me remind that Jagger via Sir Elton made it quite clear that T-Bone is out of question (thankfully)...
- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-01-14 11:58 by Doxa.
- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-01-14 11:58 by Doxa.
Re: Elton John's Suggestion to the Rolling Stones
Posted by:
Spud
()
Date: January 14, 2016 11:50
It's what many of us have been saying for years.
[...or gave up saying years ago ;^) ]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-01-14 11:50 by Spud.
[...or gave up saying years ago ;^) ]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-01-14 11:50 by Spud.
Re: Elton John's Suggestion to the Rolling Stones
Posted by:
HMS
()
Date: January 14, 2016 12:12
The Stones will do what they want to do and will never take or accept advise from nobody. The Stones do not need anybody to tell them what to do, they know themselves, they´re the Stones. Nobody knows better what´s best for the Stones but the Stones themselves.
A pure Blues-album would undoubtfully be a very very boring thing to listen to. The Stones do know that.
"Repeating the model of ABB" could turn out to be very exciting and very fruitful. A straight forward album with stripped down arrangements, decent Stones-rockers, a bit funk, a bit reggae, one or two ballads sounds marvelous to me. They still can kick ass, remember Doom And Gloom, a real great one.
A pure Blues-album would undoubtfully be a very very boring thing to listen to. The Stones do know that.
"Repeating the model of ABB" could turn out to be very exciting and very fruitful. A straight forward album with stripped down arrangements, decent Stones-rockers, a bit funk, a bit reggae, one or two ballads sounds marvelous to me. They still can kick ass, remember Doom And Gloom, a real great one.
Re: Elton John's Suggestion to the Rolling Stones
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: January 14, 2016 12:14
Quote
HMS
The Stones will do what they want to do and will never take or accept advise from nobody. The Stones do not need anybody to tell them what to do, they know themselves, they´re the Stones. Nobody knows better what´s best for the Stones but the Stones themselves.
A pure Blues-album would undoubtfully be a very very boring thing to listen to. The Stones do know that.
"Repeating the model of ABB" could turn out to be very exciting and very fruitful. A straight forward album with stripped down arrangements, decent Stones-rockers, a bit funk, a bit reggae, one or two ballads sounds marvelous to me. They still can kick ass, remember Doom And Gloom, a real great one.
That's their strength AND their weakness, imo.
Re: Elton John's Suggestion to the Rolling Stones
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: January 14, 2016 12:20
Quote
Spud
It's what many of us have been saying for years.
[...or gave up saying years ago ;^) ]
I guess Sir Elton also belongs to very first generation of (usually London-based) Stones fans, like many upcoming rock stars from those days do. So when he talks about the Stones doing the blues, I suppose there is a lot of nostalgia in his mind also. He was there, as a teenager kid, playing piano in his band Bluesology, when the Stones made a breakthrough with that kind of material he loved. His mentioning of "Come On" cannot be co-incidential. That song meant something back in the day (and who else, than a true fan, even knows that song these days?).
I guess we could hear similar comments from people like Clapton, Townshend, etc. Their perspective into the Stones is unique, being actual fans and inspired by them or by their example - and thereby the Stones being a head above of all them rest, no matter what would happen in future. Probably Ronnie Wood in the band represents this similar 'fan' perspective (probably even too much...). I don't know if Jagger ever realizes how important they actually were and what a huge impact they made back then when they were 'just' playing and recording with a success the blues covers. Yesterday's Papers and not such a big deal for him I guess... (but I guess it all happened so quickly, and they had so much things to do and do it so fast - no time to reflect things like that at the time.)
- Doxa
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2016-01-14 12:40 by Doxa.
Re: Elton John's Suggestion to the Rolling Stones
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: January 14, 2016 12:23
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
HMS
The Stones will do what they want to do and will never take or accept advise from nobody. The Stones do not need anybody to tell them what to do, they know themselves, they´re the Stones. Nobody knows better what´s best for the Stones but the Stones themselves.
A pure Blues-album would undoubtfully be a very very boring thing to listen to. The Stones do know that.
"Repeating the model of ABB" could turn out to be very exciting and very fruitful. A straight forward album with stripped down arrangements, decent Stones-rockers, a bit funk, a bit reggae, one or two ballads sounds marvelous to me. They still can kick ass, remember Doom And Gloom, a real great one.
That's their strength AND their weakness, imo.
Exactly!
- Doxa
Re: Elton John's Suggestion to the Rolling Stones
Posted by:
RollingFreak
()
Date: January 14, 2016 12:26
This is Elton being Elton, plain and simple. Sometimes warranted, but also sometimes just a temper tantrum thought as he's known to have. He always kind of has a point, but he's also a total hypocrite. The guy is as much an oldies act as the rest of them, yet kind of likes to slam other people, probably unintentionally, for one reason or another. He's done it to Madonna, he's done it to U2, he's done it to Billy Joel when really, none of them need his advice.
The guy makes an album a year, maybe one every 5 years, if that, that actually improves on his already overlong catalogue. To then mock the Stones fighting, or U2 for using under the stage musicians, or Billy Joel for never releasing albums. Billy had a funny quote that was "Elton says he doesn't know why I don't make more albums. I always say why don't you make less!" Just as true as what Elton says sometimes. Love Reg, but make another Tumbleweed Connection and then we can start talking about your problems with other bands.
The guy makes an album a year, maybe one every 5 years, if that, that actually improves on his already overlong catalogue. To then mock the Stones fighting, or U2 for using under the stage musicians, or Billy Joel for never releasing albums. Billy had a funny quote that was "Elton says he doesn't know why I don't make more albums. I always say why don't you make less!" Just as true as what Elton says sometimes. Love Reg, but make another Tumbleweed Connection and then we can start talking about your problems with other bands.
Re: Elton John's Suggestion to the Rolling Stones
Posted by:
GetYerAngie
()
Date: January 14, 2016 12:51
Quote
HMS
The Stones will do what they want to do and will never take or accept advise from nobody. The Stones do not need anybody to tell them what to do, they know themselves, they´re the Stones. Nobody knows better what´s best for the Stones but the Stones themselves.
A pure Blues-album would undoubtfully be a very very boring thing to listen to. The Stones do know that.
"Repeating the model of ABB" could turn out to be very exciting and very fruitful. A straight forward album with stripped down arrangements, decent Stones-rockers, a bit funk, a bit reggae, one or two ballads sounds marvelous to me. They still can kick ass, remember Doom And Gloom, a real great one.
All these advices - and now from Elton John of all people.
VL, BTB and ABB might not reach former hights (but the highlight-tracks are close), but are stronger efforts than other acts from their generation. Young, Macca,John, Dylan (Time out of mind beeing a possible exception), Cohen etc.
Re: Elton John's Suggestion to the Rolling Stones
Posted by:
Maindefender
()
Date: January 14, 2016 13:10
Quote
HMS
The Stones will do what they want to do and will never take or accept advise from nobody. The Stones do not need anybody to tell them what to do, they know themselves, they´re the Stones. Nobody knows better what´s best for the Stones but the Stones themselves.
A pure Blues-album would undoubtfully be a very very boring thing to listen to. The Stones do know that.
"Repeating the model of ABB" could turn out to be very exciting and very fruitful. A straight forward album with stripped down arrangements, decent Stones-rockers, a bit funk, a bit reggae, one or two ballads sounds marvelous to me. They still can kick ass, remember Doom And Gloom, a real great one.
The concern on my part is that "Mick will do what Mick wants to do". The Stones are not Electronica, they are not Alternative, they are not Rap. They are Rock n' Roll and it's time for a Rock n' Roll album in 2016.
Re: Elton John's Suggestion to the Rolling Stones
Posted by:
TheGreek
()
Date: January 14, 2016 13:34
Elton is preaching to the choir
Re: Elton John's Suggestion to the Rolling Stones
Posted by:
jlowe
()
Date: January 14, 2016 15:17
Elton should do a covers album....his last efforts are a pale shadow on his 70s and 80s work.
Re: Elton John's Suggestion to the Rolling Stones
Posted by:
Koen
()
Date: January 14, 2016 15:30
Not gonna happen, Keith has stated he's not interested in a blues album, and he sure as hell is not gonna take advice from Sir Elton.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-01-14 15:34 by Koen.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-01-14 15:34 by Koen.
Re: Elton John's Suggestion to the Rolling Stones
Posted by:
andrea66
()
Date: January 14, 2016 15:40
it is agreat idea, but it won't happen. the Stones are a r'n'r' guitar band. maybe, they could put 3 blues Tunes and not only one . i like when they write original blues songs like back of my hand, when they do cover ....i like less, even if i'd like to hear mick sing "i'd rather go blind"
Re: Elton John's Suggestion to the Rolling Stones
Posted by:
Maindefender
()
Date: January 14, 2016 15:57
They really just need to be inspired by each other and Sparks Will Fly…..
Re: Elton John's Suggestion to the Rolling Stones
Posted by:
duke richardson
()
Date: January 14, 2016 16:05
if they work up up songs in the studio, playing together in one room, they'll find the good stuff..
its a thing they have.
its a thing they have.
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