Rolling Stones - from Some Girls to Dirty Work - SHOULD be listened to with headphones...Those guitars...She´s so cold...One hit...

A bigger bang...well, there it´s lost...time waits for no one...

best song they released since they released this one!

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treaclefingers
best song they released since they released this one!

Close to true.
(Contestants: One Hit, Thief In The Night)

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matxil

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treaclefingers
best song they released since they released this one!

Close to true.
(Contestants: One Hit, Thief In The Night)

I like both those but I find Undercover in a league of it's own since 1983.

Who plays bass on the album version of UOTN? It's not Bill right?

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Bärs
Who plays bass on the album version of UOTN? It's not Bill right?

So who do you think it is - Ronnie ?.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2019-01-06 08:38 by Tonstone.

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Bärs
Who plays bass on the album version of UOTN? It's not Bill right?

So who do you think it is - Ronnie ?

From Zentgraf:

831107A 7th November: THE ROLLING STONES.
LP ‘Undercover’ (Rolling Stones Records CUN 1654361). Producers: The Glimmer
Twins & Chris Kimsey.
A: - Undercover Of The Night (MJ/KR)
- She Was Hot (MJ/KR)
- Tie You Up (MJ/KR)
- Wanna Hold You (MJ/KR)
- Feel On Baby (MJ/KR)
B: - Too Much Blood (MJ/KR)
- Pretty Beat Up (MJ/KR/RW)
- Too Tough (MJ/KR)
- All The way Down (MJ/KR)
- It Must Be Hell (MJ/KR)
Line-up ‘Undercover’: MJ (voc)/KR (gtr)/RW (gtr)/BW (bass)/CW (dr)/
Chuck Leavell (keyb)/Sly Dunbar (perc)
Line-up ‘She Was Hot’: MJ (voc)/KR (gtr)/RW (gtr)/BW (bass)/CW (dr)/
STU (p)/Chuck Leavell (p)
Line-up ‘Tie You Up’: MJ (voc)/KR (gtr, bvoc)/RW (gtr, bass, bvoc)/CW
(dr)/Chuck Leavell (p)
Line-up ‘Wanna Hold You’: KR (voc, gtr)/RW (gtr, bass, bvoc)/CW (dr)
Line-up ‘Feel On Baby’: MJ (voc, harm)/KR (gtr, voc)/ RW (gtr)/CW (dr)/
Chuck Leavell (keyb)/Robbie Shakespeare (bass)/Sly Dunbar (perc)
Line-up ‘Too Much Blood’: MJ (voc)/KR (gtr)/RW (gtr)/BW (bass)/CW (dr)/
Chuck Leavell (keyb)/Jim Barber (gtr)/The Sugarhill Horn Section
CHOPS (horns)/Sly Dunbar (perc)
Line-up ‘Pretty Beat Up’: MJ (voc, gtr)/KR (bass, bvoc)/RW (gtr, bvoc)/BW
(p)/CW (dr)/STU (org)/David Sanborn (sax)/The Sugarhill Horn
Section CHOPS (horns)
Line-up ‘Too Tough’: MJ (voc, gtr)/KR (gtr)/RW (gtr)/BW (bass)/CW (dr)/
Chuck Leavell (p)
Line-up: ‘All The Way Down’: MJ (voc, gtr)/KR (gtr, bvoc)/ RW (gtr, bvoc)/
BW (bass)/CW (dr)/Chuck Leavell (el p)
Line-up ‘It Must Be Hell’: MJ (voc)/KR (gtr, bvoc)/RW (gtr, bvoc)/BW
(bass)/CW (dr)/Chuck Leavell (p)
Note: Lots of percussion was played on the album by BW, STU, Moustapha
Cisse, Brahms Coundoul, Martin Ditcham and Sly Dunbar.

[www.nzentgraf.de]


"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"

Musician in their 1983 cover story on the album described the single and opening track as the sound of The Rolling Stones with Sly & Robbie strapped to the engine. This led to speculation that Robbie Shakespeare was playing bass on the track. Bill Wyman disputed this in an interview with Bill German stating he played bass on "Undercover" and comparing it to his bassline on "Miss You." Bill German stated Robbie Shakespeare is playing bass on "Feel On, Baby" and his lack of credit was an error that would be corrected in future reissues. We've had CBS, Virgin, and Universal since then and still no credit for the other half of The Riddim Twins.

On several Undercover outtakes it is Bill Wyman playing a walking bass, indeed reminiscent of Miss You, but on the released version it is Robbie Shakespeare playing the slap-style bass. Shakespeare also plays bass on Feel on Baby.

Mathijs

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Mathijs
On several Undercover outtakes it is Bill Wyman playing a walking bass, indeed reminiscent of Miss You, but on the released version it is Robbie Shakespeare playing the slap-style bass. Shakespeare also plays bass on Feel on Baby.

Mathijs

It sounds like slapping esp. after 1:06, but I don't think the bassist is slapping.

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Mathijs
On several Undercover outtakes it is Bill Wyman playing a walking bass, indeed reminiscent of Miss You, but on the released version it is Robbie Shakespeare playing the slap-style bass. Shakespeare also plays bass on Feel on Baby.

Mathijs

Any source for this?

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Palace Revolution 2000

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Mathijs
On several Undercover outtakes it is Bill Wyman playing a walking bass, indeed reminiscent of Miss You, but on the released version it is Robbie Shakespeare playing the slap-style bass. Shakespeare also plays bass on Feel on Baby.

Mathijs

It sounds like slapping esp. after 1:06, but I don't think the bassist is slapping.

It's more plucking than slapping indeed.

Mathijs

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Mathijs
On several Undercover outtakes it is Bill Wyman playing a walking bass, indeed reminiscent of Miss You, but on the released version it is Robbie Shakespeare playing the slap-style bass. Shakespeare also plays bass on Feel on Baby.

Mathijs

Interesting. Wyman says he's playing on "Too Much Blood." Any doubt in your mind that it is Bill on that track?

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Mathijs

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Palace Revolution 2000

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Mathijs
On several Undercover outtakes it is Bill Wyman playing a walking bass, indeed reminiscent of Miss You, but on the released version it is Robbie Shakespeare playing the slap-style bass. Shakespeare also plays bass on Feel on Baby.

Mathijs

It sounds like slapping esp. after 1:06, but I don't think the bassist is slapping.

It's more plucking than slapping indeed.

Mathijs

Exactly. I used to play with one guy, and he would do that quite a bit.

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Rocky Dijon

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Mathijs
On several Undercover outtakes it is Bill Wyman playing a walking bass, indeed reminiscent of Miss You, but on the released version it is Robbie Shakespeare playing the slap-style bass. Shakespeare also plays bass on Feel on Baby.

Mathijs

Interesting. Wyman says he's playing on "Too Much Blood." Any doubt in your mind that it is Bill on that track?

I always thought it was Bill W on "Too Much Blood" too. I read somewhere ages ago where Jagger was talking about the genesis of that track, and that it was him and the Stones rhythm section but Jim Barber, and himself of guitars. Now I wonder who does what guitar wise on that track. there is the main descending line w/ the chorus f/x, then there is that chicken scratching part. I cant recall - are there other guitars? Where is Dandy?

Yeah, I've read the same account of the song's genesis, although it never sounds like Charlie's drumming to my ears.

So, credo: When they are trying something new they don't trust Bill and Charlie. Credo 2: The Rolling Stones (in studio) is basically Keith and Ron plus session musicians.
Jagger comes in later to add his parts. Bill and Charlie are only trusted to play on a couple of songs. Credo 3: Session musicians seldom gets credit for their input.

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Palace Revolution 2000

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Rocky Dijon

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Mathijs
On several Undercover outtakes it is Bill Wyman playing a walking bass, indeed reminiscent of Miss You, but on the released version it is Robbie Shakespeare playing the slap-style bass. Shakespeare also plays bass on Feel on Baby.

Mathijs

Interesting. Wyman says he's playing on "Too Much Blood." Any doubt in your mind that it is Bill on that track?

I always thought it was Bill W on "Too Much Blood" too. I read somewhere ages ago where Jagger was talking about the genesis of that track, and that it was him and the Stones rhythm section but Jim Barber, and himself of guitars. Now I wonder who does what guitar wise on that track. there is the main descending line w/ the chorus f/x, then there is that chicken scratching part. I cant recall - are there other guitars? Where is Dandy?

On Too much Blood it is Wyman on bass, Wood doing the tremelo picked guitar lines, and Jim Barber playing all other guitars, which are the whammy bar dives and the chorused chords on the 'wanna dance' parts. Charlie is on drums, but there's a load of drum computers and percussion overdubbed over it.

Barber plays on quite some outtakes from these sessions, like the 12 string on 'Tried to Talk her Into it', guitar on 'Can't find love', and bass on 'She Was Hot'. He was asked by Jagger to play whenever Wood or Richards wasn't there, and Richards asked him to play bass when Wyman wasn't there.

Mathijs

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Stoneage
So, credo: When they are trying something new they don't trust Bill and Charlie. Credo 2: The Rolling Stones (in studio) is basically Keith and Ron plus session musicians.
Jagger comes in later to add his parts. Bill and Charlie are only trusted to play on a couple of songs. Credo 3: Session musicians seldom gets credit for their input.

No, it really isn't anything like this. It's really Mick and Keith running the sessions, with Watts, Wood and Wyman being the core band. After the basic tracks are recorded, which takes about a month, they take whatever time is needed to edit and produce the tracks. They can then decide to redo parts, and add whatever session musician is needed for the track.

In the case of Undercover Jagger simply decided they needed a bass track with more energy and tension, more pushing and rolling. This is not in the style of Bill Wyman, so Shakespeare overdubbed his part. No doubt Wood also gave it a shot.


Mathijs

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Mathijs

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Stoneage
So, credo: When they are trying something new they don't trust Bill and Charlie. Credo 2: The Rolling Stones (in studio) is basically Keith and Ron plus session musicians.
Jagger comes in later to add his parts. Bill and Charlie are only trusted to play on a couple of songs. Credo 3: Session musicians seldom gets credit for their input.

No, it really isn't anything like this. It's really Mick and Keith running the sessions, with Watts, Wood and Wyman being the core band. After the basic tracks are recorded, which takes about a month, they take whatever time is needed to edit and produce the tracks. They can then decide to redo parts, and add whatever session musician is needed for the track.

In the case of Undercover Jagger simply decided they needed a bass track with more energy and tension, more pushing and rolling. This is not in the style of Bill Wyman, so Shakespeare overdubbed his part. No doubt Wood also gave it a shot.


Mathijs

Agree what you say Mathijs, that it really isn't like that.
And thanks a bunch on info about 'Too Much Blood', and also Jim Barber. There is a photo somewhere of him playing with them during the UC sessions, and for some reason I started getting the notion that it had just been a one time thing; that he maybe happened to be there for that moment. Obviously not.

Mathijs and Bard could each put together a book on what they hear and/or surmise about studio sessions and I would buy it in a heartbeat. I don't even care when I disagree with one of them once in a while. I find the way both of them write about the evolution of studio tracks to be fascinating.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

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Palace Revolution 2000

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Mathijs

Quote
Stoneage
So, credo: When they are trying something new they don't trust Bill and Charlie. Credo 2: The Rolling Stones (in studio) is basically Keith and Ron plus session musicians.
Jagger comes in later to add his parts. Bill and Charlie are only trusted to play on a couple of songs. Credo 3: Session musicians seldom gets credit for their input.

No, it really isn't anything like this. It's really Mick and Keith running the sessions, with Watts, Wood and Wyman being the core band. After the basic tracks are recorded, which takes about a month, they take whatever time is needed to edit and produce the tracks. They can then decide to redo parts, and add whatever session musician is needed for the track.

In the case of Undercover Jagger simply decided they needed a bass track with more energy and tension, more pushing and rolling. This is not in the style of Bill Wyman, so Shakespeare overdubbed his part. No doubt Wood also gave it a shot.


Mathijs

Agree what you say Mathijs, that it really isn't like that.
And thanks a bunch on info about 'Too Much Blood', and also Jim Barber. There is a photo somewhere of him playing with them during the UC sessions, and for some reason I started getting the notion that it had just been a one time thing; that he maybe happened to be there for that moment. Obviously not.

Sure, that is the idealistic order. I don't know about Undercover - but that was certainly not true for Dirty Work. Which was run by the Biff Hitl** duo apparently. And "Brenda" looking in from time to time.
On junkie time (night end early morning). Like EOMS (without Ronnie, of course). And remember TY put together solely by Jagger and Clearmountain in a cellar in Paris.
So, who knows what? Seems to me there are many, often uncredited, session musicians doing vital parts of Stones recordings.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-12-29 23:33 by Stoneage.

TATTOO YOU put together by Chris Kimsey and Mick Jagger... not Clearmountain.

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Rocky Dijon
Mathijs and Bard could each put together a book on what they hear and/or surmise about studio sessions and I would buy it in a heartbeat. I don't even care when I disagree with one of them once in a while. I find the way both of them write about the evolution of studio tracks to be fascinating.

I agree

I just noticed that Undercover Of The Night is 4:34min long on the Undercover album and on Forty Licks its only 4:13min long.

On wiki it says ''There are two versions of this song, one featuring usual Rolling Stones bassist Bill Wyman and the other featuring guest Robbie Shakespeare. ''

Listening to both, they seem the like the same take but only edited on the Licks version.

So i wondered if the version on Licks is the single version, but on discogs it says the legth is 4:31mins (basicly same as in the original album)



Can somebody clarify me on this?

US single.



US Promo


[www.45cat.com]


"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-02-01 00:51 by Deltics.

Quote
rebelhipi
I just noticed that Undercover Of The Night is 4:34min long on the Undercover album and on Forty Licks its only 4:13min long.

On wiki it says ''There are two versions of this song, one featuring usual Rolling Stones bassist Bill Wyman and the other featuring guest Robbie Shakespeare. ''

Listening to both, they seem the like the same take but only edited on the Licks version.

So i wondered if the version on Licks is the single version, but on discogs it says the legth is 4:31mins (basicly same as in the original album)



Can somebody clarify me on this?

For many years I too thought that there were two versions. I was certain that a version I had recorded onto tape from the BBC R1 immediately prior to the official release was different to the released version.

About 10 (?) years ago I did a project to find several versions, including the above, and to use a program called Goldwave (like Audacity) to examine and compare - by eye - the visual wave forms. As usual some of them had to be speeded up a tiny tiny amount, and others slowed down similarly, in order for the main track to synchronise. Nothing at all odd about that.

They're all the same - bar a tiny bit of editing to change total length.

IMHO of course.

HTH

--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan

This must be the version with Bill Wyman on the bass that is referred on wiki.

[www.youtube.com]


Maybe the edit on Forty Licks is unique on the 2002 compilation.

Under Cover Of The Night - Dub version ---- 6.22

12" maxi single
The Singles 1971-2006



ROCKMAN