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Re: OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: September 3, 2022 16:44

Quote
Topi
What scam? He's just doing what basically everyone else in the industry, including the Stones, is doing. There's nothing new about dynamic/Platinum pricing.

BTW, even Bruce already used DP/Platinum as early as back on the 2016 River tour (the fall leg). People seem to forget that. Granted, the base prices back then were considerably lower ($160 face for GA compared to $399 GA Pit for 2023).

I hate high ticket prices as much as the next guy, but it's very simple economics. The demand far outstrips the supply and the prices are bid up. But this is discretionary income, we don't have to go to the shows.

Re: OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: exhpart ()
Date: September 3, 2022 17:15

I'm in the UK and I was happy with £90 for the Stones at Hyde Park in 2013 and £95 this year. If I had been a bit quicker £100 for Bruce would have been OK but he seems to have sold faster than the Stones.I see Villa Park is still on sale but £457 is a bit much for me.
His whole man of the people BS is blown wide open now surely?

Re: OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: Topi ()
Date: September 3, 2022 18:57

Quote
treaclefingers
Quote
Topi
What scam? He's just doing what basically everyone else in the industry, including the Stones, is doing. There's nothing new about dynamic/Platinum pricing.

BTW, even Bruce already used DP/Platinum as early as back on the 2016 River tour (the fall leg). People seem to forget that. Granted, the base prices back then were considerably lower ($160 face for GA compared to $399 GA Pit for 2023).

I hate high ticket prices as much as the next guy, but it's very simple economics. The demand far outstrips the supply and the prices are bid up. But this is discretionary income, we don't have to go to the shows.

100% this. This is just how the concert business works these days. Now, Pearl Jam's doing it too on their North American tour. (AFAIK, they didn't have Platinum pricing in place on their recently finished Euro leg)

Do I hate it? Hell yeah I do. It was the rise in face value prices that priced me out of the US tour. The Platinums are not my problem because I know better to stay away from them.

It's very important that people should know what they're buying and not bite on the Platinums.

And in fact, the Platinum prices for some of those Bruce shows are coming down - slowly. The first shows are still more than five months away.

I feel it's appropriate to quote Tom Johnson from the BTX board where he explained the model:

Quote

On a topic that I and others have posted regularly on for 2 decades on BTX, it still goes this way.

In very broad, very general strokes for Springsteen

His guarantee that he demands is like this when a contract is signed.

2023 USA arena leg - 17,000 seat arena X $250 ATP (I think it will be much higher but…) = $4,250,000 total possible gross. His guarantee is $4,000,000. Pre-dynamic pricing days he would have to sell over 16,000 seats for the promoter to break even. If fewer tickets are sold, the promoter is at a loss.
Above 16,000 tickets sold, then a % goes into effect for both artist and promoter to split. i.e. next $50,000 in tickets sold - artist 60%/promoter 40%, then next $50,000 in tickets sold – artist 50%/promoter 50%, etc. in a deescalating scale.

The line has always been razor thin for anyone but Springsteen to make some amount of money. But the partnership with the promoters and bookers has normally got there (or very close) due to his very high ATP each tour.

In many instances, if a promoter trying to increase awareness to a new venue and/or new market would pay an artist 102%, 105%, etc. of the total possible gross.

Now with the advantages of dynamic pricing, the $4,000,000 can be reached faster and with fewer tickets sold. So the potential deescalating scale comes into play quicker and the promoter should make some money and Springsteen will make a lot more money if anywhere near the 17,000 tickets are sold.

So the promoters said dynamic pricing is the only way they're going to give Bruce his 4 million a night guarantee. Bruce said, "no problem, where do I sign?".

Both sides make more money.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2022-09-03 19:41 by Topi.

Re: OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: September 3, 2022 20:23

Quote
Topi
Quote
treaclefingers
Quote
Topi
What scam? He's just doing what basically everyone else in the industry, including the Stones, is doing. There's nothing new about dynamic/Platinum pricing.

BTW, even Bruce already used DP/Platinum as early as back on the 2016 River tour (the fall leg). People seem to forget that. Granted, the base prices back then were considerably lower ($160 face for GA compared to $399 GA Pit for 2023).

I hate high ticket prices as much as the next guy, but it's very simple economics. The demand far outstrips the supply and the prices are bid up. But this is discretionary income, we don't have to go to the shows.

100% this. This is just how the concert business works these days. Now, Pearl Jam's doing it too on their North American tour. (AFAIK, they didn't have Platinum pricing in place on their recently finished Euro leg)

Do I hate it? Hell yeah I do. It was the rise in face value prices that priced me out of the US tour. The Platinums are not my problem because I know better to stay away from them.

It's very important that people should know what they're buying and not bite on the Platinums.

And in fact, the Platinum prices for some of those Bruce shows are coming down - slowly. The first shows are still more than five months away.

I feel it's appropriate to quote Tom Johnson from the BTX board where he explained the model:

Quote

On a topic that I and others have posted regularly on for 2 decades on BTX, it still goes this way.

In very broad, very general strokes for Springsteen

His guarantee that he demands is like this when a contract is signed.

2023 USA arena leg - 17,000 seat arena X $250 ATP (I think it will be much higher but…) = $4,250,000 total possible gross. His guarantee is $4,000,000. Pre-dynamic pricing days he would have to sell over 16,000 seats for the promoter to break even. If fewer tickets are sold, the promoter is at a loss.
Above 16,000 tickets sold, then a % goes into effect for both artist and promoter to split. i.e. next $50,000 in tickets sold - artist 60%/promoter 40%, then next $50,000 in tickets sold – artist 50%/promoter 50%, etc. in a deescalating scale.

The line has always been razor thin for anyone but Springsteen to make some amount of money. But the partnership with the promoters and bookers has normally got there (or very close) due to his very high ATP each tour.

In many instances, if a promoter trying to increase awareness to a new venue and/or new market would pay an artist 102%, 105%, etc. of the total possible gross.

Now with the advantages of dynamic pricing, the $4,000,000 can be reached faster and with fewer tickets sold. So the potential deescalating scale comes into play quicker and the promoter should make some money and Springsteen will make a lot more money if anywhere near the 17,000 tickets are sold.

So the promoters said dynamic pricing is the only way they're going to give Bruce his 4 million a night guarantee. Bruce said, "no problem, where do I sign?".

Both sides make more money.

I've spent less money than normal of late...I only do Lucky Dips with the Stones and have been richly rewarded. And then there are some unbelievable sales that come up when they invariable can't unload the expensive tickets for other shows. Black Crowes $25, Styx $25...ridiculously low.

I have no complaints for sure.

Re: OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: Dan ()
Date: September 3, 2022 21:35

Quote
NashvilleBlues
Quote
TheGreek
Quote
Spud
The now ever present scandal of ticket pricing is always going to look a lot worse in connection with the biggest icon of "Blue collar Rock and Roll".

You'd think he might have made some comment ..

Maybe too embarrassed to know just what to say ?

[Nicer I suppose to think that than to believe he's a big "sell out" and doesn't give a sh*t sad smiley ]
The silence means he condones this and was designed by him and his management .

Also shows cowardice.

Cowardice? What's there to explain? Either pay it or don't.

And OF COURSE he "condones" it. He knows how much he is making.

Re: OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: Dan ()
Date: September 3, 2022 21:37

Quote
Hairball
Quote
TheGreek
Quote
Spud
The now ever present scandal of ticket pricing is always going to look a lot worse in connection with the biggest icon of "Blue collar Rock and Roll".

You'd think he might have made some comment ..

Maybe too embarrassed to know just what to say ?

[Nicer I suppose to think that than to believe he's a big "sell out" and doesn't give a sh*t sad smiley ]
The silence means he condones this and was designed by him and his management .

His legacy will forever be tainted by this scam.

His legacy is his music. Which means in 20-40 years he will mostly be forgotten when his fans pass on along with the minutae of the music business. He will be in Perry Como territory.

Re: OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: Dan ()
Date: September 3, 2022 21:37

Quote
exhpart
I'm in the UK and I was happy with £90 for the Stones at Hyde Park in 2013 and £95 this year. If I had been a bit quicker £100 for Bruce would have been OK but he seems to have sold faster than the Stones.I see Villa Park is still on sale but £457 is a bit much for me.
His whole man of the people BS is blown wide open now surely?


The press giveth and the press taketh away

Re: OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: Dan ()
Date: September 3, 2022 21:38

Quote
NashvilleBlues
Quote
TheGreek
Quote
Spud
The now ever present scandal of ticket pricing is always going to look a lot worse in connection with the biggest icon of "Blue collar Rock and Roll".

You'd think he might have made some comment ..

Maybe too embarrassed to know just what to say ?

[Nicer I suppose to think that than to believe he's a big "sell out" and doesn't give a sh*t sad smiley ]
The silence means he condones this and was designed by him and his management .

Also shows cowardice.

Cowardice? What's there to explain? Either pay it or don't. If any fans really need an explanation there is plenty of reading material on the subject.

And OF COURSE he "condones" it. He knows how much he is making.

Re: OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: NashvilleBlues ()
Date: September 4, 2022 14:43

Quote
Dan
Quote
NashvilleBlues
Quote
TheGreek
Quote
Spud
The now ever present scandal of ticket pricing is always going to look a lot worse in connection with the biggest icon of "Blue collar Rock and Roll".

You'd think he might have made some comment ..

Maybe too embarrassed to know just what to say ?

[Nicer I suppose to think that than to believe he's a big "sell out" and doesn't give a sh*t sad smiley ]
The silence means he condones this and was designed by him and his management .

Also shows cowardice.

Cowardice? What's there to explain? Either pay it or don't. If any fans really need an explanation there is plenty of reading material on the subject.

And OF COURSE he "condones" it. He knows how much he is making.

Wow! You must feel strongly about my post. You responded to it twice. Haha!

Cowardice, yes. Pretending he’s for the common man then gouging people at the end of his career while staying silent is cowardice, in my book. Having someone on his payroll speaking for him isn’t a good look. He needs to own it instead of hiding behind silence.

Re: OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: Topi ()
Date: September 4, 2022 16:08

What do people expect him to say or do?

"Sorry for taking your money, here's a partial refund?"

Re: OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: NashvilleBlues ()
Date: September 4, 2022 17:32

Quote
Topi
What do people expect him to say or do?

"Sorry for taking your money, here's a partial refund?"

He didn’t hurt my feelings. I like Nebraska, but I’ve never bought into his common man act. Many people have, however, and, although he doesn’t owe me an explanation, it’d be nice for his hardcore fans, who lapped up his blue collar lies, if he could address their grievances verbally, at least. Considering the apparent outrage, he could at least say something. He doesn’t bother me either way.

Re: OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: Topi ()
Date: September 4, 2022 17:50

Yeah, I still just don't know what that "something" could be.

Landau basically said they're charging market prices. They agreed to what happened. And with 6 years gone since his last US shows, the demand put the dynamic pricing algorithm on steroids!

But in the end those tickets will get sold, it's just a matter of where the price point ends up being. There's a reason why they went on sale almost a year out.

Re: OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: NashvilleBlues ()
Date: September 4, 2022 20:33

You make good points. I see what you’re saying.

Re: OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: Topi ()
Date: September 5, 2022 18:23

Quote
exhpart
.I see Villa Park is still on sale but £457 is a bit much for me.

Wait it out. Villa Park is a stadium show almost a year away. I'd bet those Platinum prices will eventually flex back down to face value. (I believe Villa Park Front standing tix were around £155 face?)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-09-05 18:26 by Topi.

Re: OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: exhpart ()
Date: September 10, 2022 17:11

Thanks for that. £155 I could do. But checking today still £457 though that is front of stage.

Re: OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: angee ()
Date: September 10, 2022 17:17

"And with 6 years gone since his last US shows, the demand put the dynamic pricing algorithm on steroids!"

Let us not forget his two solo runs of Springsteen on Broadway. I saw one of those shows last summer.

~"Love is Strong"~

Re: OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: Topi ()
Date: September 10, 2022 23:13

As I wrote before, Broadway was a test run for higher prices. It should be mentioned, though, that there was do Platinum/dynamic pricing in place for the Broadway run.

But yeah, perhaps I should have specified it's been 6 years (7 years in 2023) since he last toured with the E Street Band.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-09-11 12:01 by Topi.

Re: OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: TheGreek ()
Date: September 13, 2022 13:36

Quote
NashvilleBlues
Quote
Dan
Quote
NashvilleBlues
Quote
TheGreek
Quote
Spud
The now ever present scandal of ticket pricing is always going to look a lot worse in connection with the biggest icon of "Blue collar Rock and Roll".

You'd think he might have made some comment ..

Maybe too embarrassed to know just what to say ?

[Nicer I suppose to think that than to believe he's a big "sell out" and doesn't give a sh*t sad smiley ]
The silence means he condones this and was designed by him and his management .

Also shows cowardice.

Cowardice? What's there to explain? Either pay it or don't. If any fans really need an explanation there is plenty of reading material on the subject.

And OF COURSE he "condones" it. He knows how much he is making.

Wow! You must feel strongly about my post. You responded to it twice. Haha!

Cowardice, yes. Pretending he’s for the common man then gouging people at the end of his career while staying silent is cowardice, in my book. Having someone on his payroll speaking for him isn’t a good look. He needs to own it instead of hiding behind silence.
Yup, tell like it is ! I don't think if he speaks up a midge it would hurt ticket sales . Stand up like a man and tell it like it is !

Re: OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: TheGreek ()
Date: September 13, 2022 13:39

Quote
angee
"And with 6 years gone since his last US shows, the demand put the dynamic pricing algorithm on steroids!"

Let us not forget his two solo runs of Springsteen on Broadway. I saw one of those shows last summer.
They were not giving away those ducats either . As they fetched a good price as well . I think that was the test or the feeler put out and folks ate it up . I did not attend the Broadway show .

Re: OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: Topi ()
Date: September 13, 2022 14:55

TheGreek: I think his management already pretty much told it like it is: they're (now) charging the same kind of prices every other top touring act is charging.

And in fact, Bruce's average ticket prices have even previously been right up there in the top 3/top 5 of any given touring year. On his previous tours there just wasn't as much variation (and the dynamic pricing wasn't used as widely). And he kept the most expensive prices down and there was very little scaling. But he used to sell a bigger share of his tickets at that top price. At the end of the day, it's the average ticket price that counts.

This tour, everything just went up. Combine that with dynamic pricing (and, allegedly, manipulating available stock to drive up the demand and therefore the prices even further) and no wonder the fans were furious. But trust me, those arenas will be pretty full by show day, even if it takes flexing the dynamic prices back down to the base price/face value.

Re: OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: TheGreek ()
Date: September 13, 2022 15:02

Quote
Topi
TheGreek: I think his management already pretty much told it like it is: they're (now) charging the same kind of prices every other top touring act is charging.

And in fact, Bruce's average ticket prices have even previously been right up there in the top 3/top 5 of any given touring year. On his previous tours there just wasn't as much variation (and the dynamic pricing wasn't used as widely). And he kept the most expensive prices down and there was very little scaling. But he used to sell a bigger share of his tickets at that top price. At the end of the day, it's the average ticket price that counts.

This tour, everything just went up. Combine that with dynamic pricing (and, allegedly, manipulating available stock to drive up the demand and therefore the prices even further) and no wonder the fans were furious. But trust me, those arenas will be pretty full by show day, even if it takes flexing the dynamic prices back down to the base price/face value.
I agree the seats will be filled for sure .

Re: OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: angee ()
Date: September 13, 2022 17:37

Fwiw, Bruce is going to interview Jann Wenner in NYC about his memoir tonight, Sept. 13:

[www.nytimes.com]

~"Love is Strong"~

Re: OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: 24FPS ()
Date: September 13, 2022 19:12

I'm paying $45 to see Pink Martini tomorrow night at the Hollywood Bowl. Decent, mid-level seats. And they are at their peak. I paid $7.50 for good floor seats to see Bruce in 1978. The last time I saw Bruce, when he was pushing his first solo album, with the E-Street Band, was $22.50 for side of the stage seats. A great concert. There's no f-ing way I'm paying hundreds of dollars to sit in the nosebleeds and watch a bunch of yoyos go ape when he launches into Glory Days for the encore. It's like the Stones, I've seen a much, much better version of the group, for a lot less money.

Re: OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: crholmstrom ()
Date: September 13, 2022 20:59

Quote
24FPS
I'm paying $45 to see Pink Martini tomorrow night at the Hollywood Bowl. Decent, mid-level seats. And they are at their peak. I paid $7.50 for good floor seats to see Bruce in 1978. The last time I saw Bruce, when he was pushing his first solo album, with the E-Street Band, was $22.50 for side of the stage seats. A great concert. There's no f-ing way I'm paying hundreds of dollars to sit in the nosebleeds and watch a bunch of yoyos go ape when he launches into Glory Days for the encore. It's like the Stones, I've seen a much, much better version of the group, for a lot less money.

I followed NIN through Oregon last week & was struck by how fan friendly everything was. I saw 2 shows. Trent Reznor could be playing much bigger venues for way more money. The shows were in smallish (well under 10000 capacity) & the tickets were $100. They had a great opening act, Yves Tumor, & changed the setlists drastically between shows. Even the merchandise was inexpensive & very high quality. Basic t-shirts were $30. In comparison, Red Hot Chili Peppers were charging $50 for basic shirts. I let them keep mine. Just goes to show that there is a lot of gouging going on out there with concerts. It's too bad more big artists don't follow Trent's example. + Trent is constantly putting out new material, not necessarily under the NIN moniker. It was a great roadtrip. My first time out of Seattle since COVID started.

OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: bye bye johnny ()
Date: September 13, 2022 23:09

Jann Wenner tips a new Springsteen album in an interview with Frank DiGiacomo of Billboard:

Pop and hip-hop are dominant, and have been for years. What do you think of that?

There’s a lot of good stuff, and there’s a lot of trash and trivial stuff. Honestly, I don’t think it’s as good as [rock ’n’ roll]. I don’t think the singing is good, and I don’t think the arranging is good. Historically, it’s another turn in the cycle. Whether rock ‘n’ roll is going to come back — possibly not, because the sound is so different, and the circumstances are different. But I’m kind of stuck with the music I liked when I was young. Give me the Stones. There’s a new Bruce [Springsteen] record coming out this fall, which is stunning. I’m listening to that.

[www.billboard.com]

Re: OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: Elmo Lewis ()
Date: September 14, 2022 03:28

Quote
angee
Fwiw, Bruce is going to interview Jann Wenner in NYC about his memoir tonight, Sept. 13:

[www.nytimes.com]

An ass-kissing contest

Re: OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: 24FPS ()
Date: September 14, 2022 05:18

Quote
crholmstrom
Quote
24FPS
I'm paying $45 to see Pink Martini tomorrow night at the Hollywood Bowl. Decent, mid-level seats. And they are at their peak. I paid $7.50 for good floor seats to see Bruce in 1978. The last time I saw Bruce, when he was pushing his first solo album, with the E-Street Band, was $22.50 for side of the stage seats. A great concert. There's no f-ing way I'm paying hundreds of dollars to sit in the nosebleeds and watch a bunch of yoyos go ape when he launches into Glory Days for the encore. It's like the Stones, I've seen a much, much better version of the group, for a lot less money.

I followed NIN through Oregon last week & was struck by how fan friendly everything was. I saw 2 shows. Trent Reznor could be playing much bigger venues for way more money. The shows were in smallish (well under 10000 capacity) & the tickets were $100. They had a great opening act, Yves Tumor, & changed the setlists drastically between shows. Even the merchandise was inexpensive & very high quality. Basic t-shirts were $30. In comparison, Red Hot Chili Peppers were charging $50 for basic shirts. I let them keep mine. Just goes to show that there is a lot of gouging going on out there with concerts. It's too bad more big artists don't follow Trent's example. + Trent is constantly putting out new material, not necessarily under the NIN moniker. It was a great roadtrip. My first time out of Seattle since COVID started.

I don't know how the Hollywood Bowl does it. You can buy expensive box seats where they'll bring you an entire meal with wine if you order it ahead. Those tickets are about a hundred and fifty. And you're very close to the band. And most shows you get the Hollywood Bowl orchestra with the appearing group if it's appropriate. And a decent seat is under $50.00. And it feels right, like what you should be paying. Nostalgia is what they're charging for now, and it's way overpriced.

OT: Bruce Springsteen stuff
Posted by: bye bye johnny ()
Date: September 23, 2022 22:21


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