Tell Me :
Talk
One paragraph says I'm just wrong, and the other one lectures people for thinking that an opinion about music is absolutely correct. Double standard?
Flawless when it comes to art is a subjective term. I was just trying to refute your statement that it was "impossible" for love in vain on Ya Ya's to be a 9/10. Of course it's not impossible, it's a matter of opinion.
Why not just agree to disagree?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-11-29 20:23 by Turner68.
The Stones are good at Chuck Berry songs because Keith's joy with them is audibly apparent. As far as Keith being way more detailed in the playing, that is just plain nonsense to me.Keith s the one that sluffs and approximates Chucks precision. Check out the Hail Hail special where Chuck is trying to teach Keith how to play one of his most basic and well known licks. Keith is struggling to be precise and get it "just" right, I'm not sure he ever does in fact. Chuck shows there that he is the master of his own material, which makes perfect sense.
Both guitarists have their own subtle styles, of course both Keith and Chuck have played tunes with bum notes. I tend to like Chucks original versions a bit better, they are more true to the form, imo. The Stones put their own stamp on them which is just the sign of a good band. But unlike others here I'm just not fond of the Stones doing Berry covers. I'd prefer to hear them do early originals.
Maybe I worded this a bit clumsily.
Good suggestion
PS: The "lecturing" was a reply to alimente. I was a bit too quick there..
For sure Doxa! Thanks for the shout out, and you are so right. Rock had become an art form. A multimedia format that was new and exciting. The Stones were riding a new intellectualism of rock, kicking it hard while celebrating their blues/rock hybrid. A stunning period for them. I have just posted on another thread about how timely it would be for them to release a full on box set from this tour. With a few shows and a full concert DVD. It is crazy and frustrating this hasn't happened.
i've found your comments on this very educational as you and HMS and others have provided great pointers to other excellent live versions of the various songs on other tours that I've been less familiar with, in particular Roundhouse. i'm sure my connection to the sound and approach they had in 69 is partly emotional - Ya Ya's and the movie "gimme shelter" are both what turned me into a huge stones fan. i doubt that i'll ever let them go as the pinnacle.
I will still argue to my grave however that HTW is better on GYYYO than on LYL :-)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-11-29 23:22 by Turner68.
What I find interesting is that you are comparing the Stones versions vs. the originals, and yet your analysis almost reads as a comparison of Keith as a guitarist vs Chuck. Is this perhaps because you play guitar?
First we should stipulate that Chuck is a deity and that chuck is the best Chuck Berry guitarist on the planet.
Having said that, i believe the Stones' versions on most any tour are true pinnacles of their work, and that what makes them so great is only 1/5 keith's guitar playing, because really it's the whole band that makes the songs. I hesitate to compare with Chuck's versions at all, since they are essentially religious documents, but the Stones' rhythm section really shines on the Chuck Berry live covers. Listen to those grooves on Ya-Ya's! And Mick's singing of the songs is also sensational. Finally, of course, the Stones benefit from having two great guitarists playing (KR and MT) and Chuck has "only" Chuck (not saying that KR+MT combined are better than CB, but more that they can do more things because they have 4 hands....)
So, out of curiosity, is your point that Keith isn't as good as Chuck in playing guitar on the Berry songs, or do you truly believe that the original versions recorded by chuck are better performances all-around?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015-11-29 23:24 by Turner68.
As a subjective statement based on your own personal taste I can live with that. However, trying to make it sound like an objective judgement ("one cannot" instead of "I cannot") is foul play in my book. It is debatable whether the versions you mentioned are superior or not, but that leads to nothing because one's personal taste is just that - one's personal taste. In my (personal, of course) book YaYa's is the perfect version (and that includes the vocals!), but the other versions are great too. I would not put down any of them with a mediocre rating.
agreed.
whilst I don't really like the song that much, I believe the way it is played on GYYYO is about as perfect as it gets...
You said it! Not real Stones fans, in my book.
how do you reconcile this with your statement that certain numerical ratings of certain songs are "pure rubbish" and show little understanding of stones music?
I like the chorus on LYL better than GYYYO, it's got a more interesting rhythm, Charlie plays it with a bit more swing plus Keith's playing is outstanding on LYL.
The GYYYO version has a nice chug and lurch to it though. Both are awesome, LYL's gets the nod better. Plus the GYYYO vocals are overdubbed. LYL's are live.
Some things are just not debatable, sorry. If someone would say, for instance, that Satisfaction, Paint It Black, JJF, Honky Tonk Women and Gimme Shelter are just mediocre tracks, I could accept that as a personal opinion, but would always say: "Stones music is obviously not your thing. Better listen to The Osmonds instead. Or if this music is just techically too simple for you, there's always Mozart or Weather Report waiting around the corner!".
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-11-30 05:27 by alimente.
Into mine, too - that's why my blood literally starts to boil when I witness any mediocre ratings....
See my reply to Turner above. I agree, the way I formulated it was clumsily indeed
That said, it is also foul play saying that «Stones isn't my thing» if I rate the Leeds or Roundhouse LIV 10/10 and the Ya Ya's version 7/10.
After all, when looking at this a bit more analytically, there are wrong key changes (Bill) on the Ya Ya's version, which doesn't happen on the other versions + the vocal crescendos are missing on the Ya Ya's version. If you care about stuff like that, which I'm sure that many do when they rate a version, I'd say you're a good listener, not a Stones novice
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015-11-30 10:20 by DandelionPowderman.
If you have to analyse rather than feel, well, sorry, no hope for ya! ;-)
I just listen and enjoy, and sometimes I really listen and really enjoy. I don't analyse. I know what sounds good to me, even with obvious mistakes on occasion, and I know what feels good TO ME. Without ANALYSIS.
Rod
It's good to know that I am not a good listener, and a Stones novice...
- Doxa
Not only do the Stones often sound better than Chuck Berry himself when playing his songs, I think they are also one of the very few bands who can actually play Chuck Berry songs the right way. Most bands play it as plain, cosy rock-n-roll. The Stones make it sound groovy, dirty and - as you say - mean.
You're making a fallacious inference - the inverse of a statement is not necessarily true, only the contrapositive is.
[hotmath.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-11-30 11:22 by Turner68.
Aah, not just a guardian of the Holy Keithette Church, but that of logic as well.. good we all have some sort of function here...
- Doxa
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Posted by:
Turner68
()
Date: November 29, 2015 20:22
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Turner68Quote
DandelionPowderman
One cannot give LIV 9/10 when there are other superior versions out there (The studio version, Leeds 71, Texas 72, Texas 78 etc.).
That statement is logically incorrect
It it possible for there to be 10 or even 100 10/10 versions of a song if it is consistently played at the highest possible quality.
The performance on YaYas is flawless. Not saying it is the best, but that's different.
Maybe so, but you're wrong about it being flawless. It is a very good version, though, like I said in my review (7/10).
To people hinting that others (me included?) "don't understand" or "don't show the love" for what you think is excellent: Get real
.....
One paragraph says I'm just wrong, and the other one lectures people for thinking that an opinion about music is absolutely correct. Double standard?
Flawless when it comes to art is a subjective term. I was just trying to refute your statement that it was "impossible" for love in vain on Ya Ya's to be a 9/10. Of course it's not impossible, it's a matter of opinion.
Why not just agree to disagree?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-11-29 20:23 by Turner68.
Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Posted by:
Naturalust
()
Date: November 29, 2015 20:27
Quote
HairballQuote
GasLightStreetQuote
matxilQuote
Hairball
While they're all standout tracks, I should qualify that by saying I'm probably in the minority in thinking the Chuck Berry covers aren't the greatest.
A bit slow and sludgy, and although Keith's riffs are essential, hard to top the Chuck originals imo.
With that said, they're party of the overall vibe and what makes the album great, therefore they are standouts.
I love those Chuck Berry tracks, especially Little Queenie. I think the slowing down of it, and the heavy riffing each time after Mick sings: "Meanwhile, I was stiiiiiil thinking", all add to make it sound very dirty.
Whereas the original Chuck Berry version is naughty: a man excited by looking at a pretty girl, the Stones turn it into a very dark, horny, dirty, almost pornographic thing. "Meanwhile, I was thinking..." and you almost hesitate to imagine what he's thinking about.
The Stones doing Chuck Berry songs... Chuck Berry's versions are bettered by the Stones. I've yet to hear a Chuck song be as good as the way the Stones did it. It's strange to say that but I think the Stones are better at Chuck Berry than Chuck Berry is!
Keith is way more detailed in the playing where as Chuck, he's just thinkin' about the money and bum notes be damned. Listen to his Around And Around and then the Stones... there's some awful notes in Chuck's version. The Stones? They make that song burn with fire.
The two Chuck Berry songs on GYYYO are supreme - yeah, they are slower; they're mean. They are deliberately heavy. Because it sounds fantastic.
Agree regarding the Stones version of Around and Around being wickedly great - those early live versions (studio version as well) are something to behold.
That probably comes as close to topping Chuck Berry as the Stones ever have, but still think the CB original is superior.
The Stones are good at Chuck Berry songs because Keith's joy with them is audibly apparent. As far as Keith being way more detailed in the playing, that is just plain nonsense to me.Keith s the one that sluffs and approximates Chucks precision. Check out the Hail Hail special where Chuck is trying to teach Keith how to play one of his most basic and well known licks. Keith is struggling to be precise and get it "just" right, I'm not sure he ever does in fact. Chuck shows there that he is the master of his own material, which makes perfect sense.
Both guitarists have their own subtle styles, of course both Keith and Chuck have played tunes with bum notes. I tend to like Chucks original versions a bit better, they are more true to the form, imo. The Stones put their own stamp on them which is just the sign of a good band. But unlike others here I'm just not fond of the Stones doing Berry covers. I'd prefer to hear them do early originals.
Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: November 29, 2015 21:07
In regards to "Love In Vain", it is pretty hard for me to be 'objective' about it, since its the YA-YA'S version that has stuck in my mind so deeply, and if we are only thinking it terms of the amounts of listening it and making an impression to a receptive mind, I don't think any other live version has had any chance to come even close. The version is there like a blueprint for any other, and against which any other is to be measured. To me the version is "flawless" as any Stones performance ever can be, and I can't really see there anything less than perfection how Mick sings it.
Generally, it is hard for me judge the versions between, say, Taylor years, since the songs seem to develop and change as the players and the band do. Good to hear the whole variance. For example, in the case of "Love In Vain", especially Jagger and Taylor put a bit more gas on 1971-72, but I don't know if that actually makes the performance better but just different (which is a good thing). What I find stunning in YA-YA'S version is how 'cool' it is, nothing is stressed too strongly - but that laid-back feeling, no any bullshit note (not even Taylor) but each hitting the mark and meaningfully, with Jagger's steel cold, oddily estranged vocals (that might be the closest we can ever him him singing 'straight' with his 'natural' voice!), making such a threatening impression. It is very different compared to the studio version, giving the song altogether different clothing - and probably a new life as a song as well. THis is not to take anything out of the beautiful and haunting LET IT BLEED version, but just point out what an incredible, creative unit they were as a live band back then.
- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-11-29 21:09 by Doxa.
Generally, it is hard for me judge the versions between, say, Taylor years, since the songs seem to develop and change as the players and the band do. Good to hear the whole variance. For example, in the case of "Love In Vain", especially Jagger and Taylor put a bit more gas on 1971-72, but I don't know if that actually makes the performance better but just different (which is a good thing). What I find stunning in YA-YA'S version is how 'cool' it is, nothing is stressed too strongly - but that laid-back feeling, no any bullshit note (not even Taylor
) but each hitting the mark and meaningfully, with Jagger's steel cold, oddily estranged vocals (that might be the closest we can ever him him singing 'straight' with his 'natural' voice!), making such a threatening impression. It is very different compared to the studio version, giving the song altogether different clothing - and probably a new life as a song as well. THis is not to take anything out of the beautiful and haunting LET IT BLEED version, but just point out what an incredible, creative unit they were as a live band back then.- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-11-29 21:09 by Doxa.
Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Posted by:
whitem8
()
Date: November 29, 2015 21:19
Get Yer Ya Yas was a project to capture the essence of the Stones live in 1969. They were proud of their accomplishment. Their first serious tour, where audiences were actually listening to the intricacies of their hybrid blues rock. They had a new lease on life. A new guitarist that brought out a lyrical approach to the blues and their brand of rock in roll. Their shows were a pure celebration in their music, their voice, and their vision. This, however, was a hard thing to capture on vinyl. Recording techniques were better, but still not without problems, dropped channels, feedback, and notoriously out of tune instruments.
Hence they took some of the best tapes and went to the studio to fix them up. To present a fuller vision of the Rolling Stones live experience. So yeah, some overdubs, but at the end of the day, back in the day, who noticed that much? And did it detract from their live statement. Not in the least. Get Yer Ya Ya's Out was a focused examination of their skills at presenting a more nuanced and complex live show. That smoked, and was more deliberately focused on the music. No more Popeye the Sailor Man here, but menace, and a dark edged celebration of rock's excesses. This tour started off a new decade for The Rolling Stones, along with Let it Bleed, the Stones signaled their lust for gypsy blues hard rock. Layered with more decadence, disdain, and drugs. A heady trio that would start the candle burning at one end, where every one knows their lifestyles started that same candle to begin burning at the other end. A bright super nova star that was brief in its intensity, yet beautiful, and captivated millions of new and old fans alike. It is a lovely album, layered and propulsive. You can't but help to stand and cheer when hearing "god damn!" yup, god be damned, this was a new church of rock in roll.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-11-29 21:22 by whitem8.
Hence they took some of the best tapes and went to the studio to fix them up. To present a fuller vision of the Rolling Stones live experience. So yeah, some overdubs, but at the end of the day, back in the day, who noticed that much? And did it detract from their live statement. Not in the least. Get Yer Ya Ya's Out was a focused examination of their skills at presenting a more nuanced and complex live show. That smoked, and was more deliberately focused on the music. No more Popeye the Sailor Man here, but menace, and a dark edged celebration of rock's excesses. This tour started off a new decade for The Rolling Stones, along with Let it Bleed, the Stones signaled their lust for gypsy blues hard rock. Layered with more decadence, disdain, and drugs. A heady trio that would start the candle burning at one end, where every one knows their lifestyles started that same candle to begin burning at the other end. A bright super nova star that was brief in its intensity, yet beautiful, and captivated millions of new and old fans alike. It is a lovely album, layered and propulsive. You can't but help to stand and cheer when hearing "god damn!" yup, god be damned, this was a new church of rock in roll.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-11-29 21:22 by whitem8.
Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: November 29, 2015 21:27
Beautifully put, whitem8. It is still unbelievable to think, if compared to GOT LIVE IF YOU WANT IT!, how much the band and the whole rock music had changed in just three years in terms of professionalism, approach and artistic seriousness.
- Doxa
- Doxa
Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Posted by:
Moonshine
()
Date: November 29, 2015 21:33
Totally agree, when it sounds this good who honestly cares about a few overdubs. Everyone thought it couldn't get any better after this and the last 2 studio albums, and then it did.
Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Posted by:
Turner68
()
Date: November 29, 2015 22:08
Quote
whitem8
Get Yer Ya Yas was a project to capture the essence of the Stones live in 1969. They were proud of their accomplishment. Their first serious tour, where audiences were actually listening to the intricacies of their hybrid blues rock. They had a new lease on life. A new guitarist that brought out a lyrical approach to the blues and their brand of rock in roll. Their shows were a pure celebration in their music, their voice, and their vision. This, however, was a hard thing to capture on vinyl. Recording techniques were better, but still not without problems, dropped channels, feedback, and notoriously out of tune instruments.
Hence they took some of the best tapes and went to the studio to fix them up. To present a fuller vision of the Rolling Stones live experience. So yeah, some overdubs, but at the end of the day, back in the day, who noticed that much? And did it detract from their live statement. Not in the least. Get Yer Ya Ya's Out was a focused examination of their skills at presenting a more nuanced and complex live show. That smoked, and was more deliberately focused on the music. No more Popeye the Sailor Man here, but menace, and a dark edged celebration of rock's excesses. This tour started off a new decade for The Rolling Stones, along with Let it Bleed, the Stones signaled their lust for gypsy blues hard rock. Layered with more decadence, disdain, and drugs. A heady trio that would start the candle burning at one end, where every one knows their lifestyles started that same candle to begin burning at the other end. A bright super nova star that was brief in its intensity, yet beautiful, and captivated millions of new and old fans alike. It is a lovely album, layered and propulsive. You can't but help to stand and cheer when hearing "god damn!" yup, god be damned, this was a new church of rock in roll.
Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Posted by:
latebloomer
()
Date: November 29, 2015 22:13
...this was a new church of rock in roll.
Amen.
Amen.
Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: November 29, 2015 22:53
Quote
Turner68Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Turner68Quote
DandelionPowderman
One cannot give LIV 9/10 when there are other superior versions out there (The studio version, Leeds 71, Texas 72, Texas 78 etc.).
That statement is logically incorrect
It it possible for there to be 10 or even 100 10/10 versions of a song if it is consistently played at the highest possible quality.
The performance on YaYas is flaw6less. Not saying it is the best, but that's different.
Maybe so, but you're wrong about it being flawless. It is a very good version, though, like I said in my review (7/10).
To people hinting that others (me included?) "don't understand" or "don't show the love" for what you think is excellent: Get real
.....
One paragraph says I'm just wrong, and the other one lectures people for thinking that an opinion about music is absolutely correct. Double standard?
Flawless when it comes to art is a subjective term. I was just trying to refute your statement that it was "impossible" for love in vain on Ya Ya's to be a 9/10. Of course it's not impossible, it's a matter of opinion.
Why not just agree to disagree?
Maybe I worded this a bit clumsily.
Good suggestion
PS: The "lecturing" was a reply to alimente. I was a bit too quick there..
Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Posted by:
whitem8
()
Date: November 29, 2015 22:56
Quote
Doxa
Beautifully put, whitem8. It is still unbelievable to think, if compared to GOT LIVE IF YOU WANT IT!, how much the band and the whole rock music had changed in just three years in terms of professionalism, approach and artistic seriousness.
- Doxa
For sure Doxa! Thanks for the shout out, and you are so right. Rock had become an art form. A multimedia format that was new and exciting. The Stones were riding a new intellectualism of rock, kicking it hard while celebrating their blues/rock hybrid. A stunning period for them. I have just posted on another thread about how timely it would be for them to release a full on box set from this tour. With a few shows and a full concert DVD. It is crazy and frustrating this hasn't happened.
Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Posted by:
Turner68
()
Date: November 29, 2015 23:17
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Maybe I worded this a bit clumsily.
Good suggestion
PS: The "lecturing" was a reply to alimente. I was a bit too quick there..
i've found your comments on this very educational as you and HMS and others have provided great pointers to other excellent live versions of the various songs on other tours that I've been less familiar with, in particular Roundhouse. i'm sure my connection to the sound and approach they had in 69 is partly emotional - Ya Ya's and the movie "gimme shelter" are both what turned me into a huge stones fan. i doubt that i'll ever let them go as the pinnacle.
I will still argue to my grave however that HTW is better on GYYYO than on LYL :-)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-11-29 23:22 by Turner68.
Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Posted by:
Turner68
()
Date: November 29, 2015 23:20
Quote
Naturalust
The Stones are good at Chuck Berry songs because Keith's joy with them is audibly apparent. As far as Keith being way more detailed in the playing, that is just plain nonsense to me.Keith s the one that sluffs and approximates Chucks precision. Check out the Hail Hail special where Chuck is trying to teach Keith how to play one of his most basic and well known licks. Keith is struggling to be precise and get it "just" right, I'm not sure he ever does in fact. Chuck shows there that he is the master of his own material, which makes perfect sense.
Both guitarists have their own subtle styles, of course both Keith and Chuck have played tunes with bum notes. I tend to like Chucks original versions a bit better, they are more true to the form, imo. The Stones put their own stamp on them which is just the sign of a good band. But unlike others here I'm just not fond of the Stones doing Berry covers. I'd prefer to hear them do early originals.
What I find interesting is that you are comparing the Stones versions vs. the originals, and yet your analysis almost reads as a comparison of Keith as a guitarist vs Chuck. Is this perhaps because you play guitar?
First we should stipulate that Chuck is a deity and that chuck is the best Chuck Berry guitarist on the planet.
Having said that, i believe the Stones' versions on most any tour are true pinnacles of their work, and that what makes them so great is only 1/5 keith's guitar playing, because really it's the whole band that makes the songs. I hesitate to compare with Chuck's versions at all, since they are essentially religious documents, but the Stones' rhythm section really shines on the Chuck Berry live covers. Listen to those grooves on Ya-Ya's! And Mick's singing of the songs is also sensational. Finally, of course, the Stones benefit from having two great guitarists playing (KR and MT) and Chuck has "only" Chuck (not saying that KR+MT combined are better than CB, but more that they can do more things because they have 4 hands....)
So, out of curiosity, is your point that Keith isn't as good as Chuck in playing guitar on the Berry songs, or do you truly believe that the original versions recorded by chuck are better performances all-around?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015-11-29 23:24 by Turner68.
Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Posted by:
Naturalust
()
Date: November 30, 2015 01:44
Hey Turner, yes I play guitar. I think the reason I was talking about the guitar playing was in response to a comment about that.
As far as the Berry songs on tour, they generally don't do much for me, just a personal taste thing I guess. But yes I believe both that Chuck plays them better than Keith and his recorded versions are generally the best. There are exceptions of course, both Keith and Chuck don't play like they did in their prime. But taking the best performances of both guys, Chuck wins hands down....just like Keith probably would for Stones originals .
As far as the Berry songs on tour, they generally don't do much for me, just a personal taste thing I guess. But yes I believe both that Chuck plays them better than Keith and his recorded versions are generally the best. There are exceptions of course, both Keith and Chuck don't play like they did in their prime. But taking the best performances of both guys, Chuck wins hands down....just like Keith probably would for Stones originals .
Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Posted by:
alimente
()
Date: November 30, 2015 02:07
Quote
DandelionPowderman
One cannot give LIV 9/10 when there are other superior versions out there (The studio version, Leeds 71, Texas 72, Texas 78 etc.).
As a subjective statement based on your own personal taste I can live with that. However, trying to make it sound like an objective judgement ("one cannot" instead of "I cannot") is foul play in my book. It is debatable whether the versions you mentioned are superior or not, but that leads to nothing because one's personal taste is just that - one's personal taste. In my (personal, of course) book YaYa's is the perfect version (and that includes the vocals!), but the other versions are great too. I would not put down any of them with a mediocre rating.
Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Posted by:
Eleanor Rigby
()
Date: November 30, 2015 03:39
Quote
alimenteQuote
DandelionPowderman
One cannot give LIV 9/10 when there are other superior versions out there (The studio version, Leeds 71, Texas 72, Texas 78 etc.).
As a subjective statement based on your own personal taste I can live with that. However, trying to make it sound like an objective judgement ("one cannot" instead of "I cannot") is foul play in my book. It is debatable whether the versions you mentioned are superior or not, but that leads to nothing because one's personal taste is just that - one's personal taste. In my (personal, of course) book YaYa's is the perfect version (and that includes the vocals!), but the other versions are great too. I would not put down any of them with a mediocre rating.
agreed.
whilst I don't really like the song that much, I believe the way it is played on GYYYO is about as perfect as it gets...
Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Posted by:
LeonidP
()
Date: November 30, 2015 04:12
Quote
alimenteQuote
TopsQuote
theBlockbuster
It's a very overrated album, which I rarely listen to. However I still think it's a decent document of the time and it has the best album cover of any Stones record.
Jumping Jack Flash: 8/10
Carol: 5/10
Stray Cat Blues: 7/10
Love In Vain: 5/10
Midnight Rambler: 7/10
Sympathy For The Devil: 6/10
Live With Me: 8/10
Little Queenie: 6/10
Honky Tonk Women: 5/10
Street Fighting Man: 5/10
Prodigal Son: 7/10
You Gotta Move: 6/10
Under My Thumb: 4/10
I'm Free: 6/10
(I Can't Get No) Satisfaction: 4/10
+1
With Exception of Stray Cat Blues 9/10, Midnight Rambler 9/10 and Satisfaction 9/10
Every review that rates Love In Vain and Sympathy from YaYas as "5/10" and "6/10", not to speak of others (Midnight Rambler: "6/10" - bah!) qualifies as nothing more than pure rubbish and shows little love and understanding for Stones music. Sorry if I sound harsh, but such ridiculousness can hardly be topped.
You said it! Not real Stones fans, in my book.
Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Posted by:
Turner68
()
Date: November 30, 2015 04:18
Quote
alimenteQuote
DandelionPowderman
One cannot give LIV 9/10 when there are other superior versions out there (The studio version, Leeds 71, Texas 72, Texas 78 etc.).
As a subjective statement based on your own personal taste I can live with that. However, trying to make it sound like an objective judgement ("one cannot" instead of "I cannot") is foul play in my book. It is debatable whether the versions you mentioned are superior or not, but that leads to nothing because one's personal taste is just that - one's personal taste. In my (personal, of course) book YaYa's is the perfect version (and that includes the vocals!), but the other versions are great too. I would not put down any of them with a mediocre rating.
how do you reconcile this with your statement that certain numerical ratings of certain songs are "pure rubbish" and show little understanding of stones music?
Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: November 30, 2015 04:33
Jumpin' Jack Flash ****1/2 - would be 5 if it had the original vocals ie live from the 1969 tour
Carol *****
Stray Cat Blues *****
Love In Vain *****
Midnight Rambler *****
Sympathy For The Devil *****
Live With Me *****
Little Queenie *****
Honky Tonk Women ****1/2 - I like the LOVE YOU LIVE version best but this one is smokin'...
Street Fighting Man *****
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-12-01 04:37 by GasLightStreet.
Carol *****
Stray Cat Blues *****
Love In Vain *****
Midnight Rambler *****
Sympathy For The Devil *****
Live With Me *****
Little Queenie *****
Honky Tonk Women ****1/2 - I like the LOVE YOU LIVE version best but this one is smokin'...
Street Fighting Man *****
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-12-01 04:37 by GasLightStreet.
Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Posted by:
Turner68
()
Date: November 30, 2015 04:34
i agree with you gaslight except we disagree about HTW. mick's singing is way better on Ya Ya's than LYL and therefore the performance overall is better.
Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: November 30, 2015 04:44
Quote
Turner68
i agree with you gaslight except we disagree about HTW. mick's singing is way better on Ya Ya's than LYL and therefore the performance overall is better.
I like the chorus on LYL better than GYYYO, it's got a more interesting rhythm, Charlie plays it with a bit more swing plus Keith's playing is outstanding on LYL.
The GYYYO version has a nice chug and lurch to it though. Both are awesome, LYL's gets the nod better. Plus the GYYYO vocals are overdubbed. LYL's are live.
Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Posted by:
alimente
()
Date: November 30, 2015 05:19
Quote
Turner68Quote
alimenteQuote
DandelionPowderman
One cannot give LIV 9/10 when there are other superior versions out there (The studio version, Leeds 71, Texas 72, Texas 78 etc.).
As a subjective statement based on your own personal taste I can live with that. However, trying to make it sound like an objective judgement ("one cannot" instead of "I cannot") is foul play in my book. It is debatable whether the versions you mentioned are superior or not, but that leads to nothing because one's personal taste is just that - one's personal taste. In my (personal, of course) book YaYa's is the perfect version (and that includes the vocals!), but the other versions are great too. I would not put down any of them with a mediocre rating.
how do you reconcile this with your statement that certain numerical ratings of certain songs are "pure rubbish" and show little understanding of stones music?
Some things are just not debatable, sorry. If someone would say, for instance, that Satisfaction, Paint It Black, JJF, Honky Tonk Women and Gimme Shelter are just mediocre tracks, I could accept that as a personal opinion, but would always say: "Stones music is obviously not your thing. Better listen to The Osmonds instead. Or if this music is just techically too simple for you, there's always Mozart or Weather Report waiting around the corner!".
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-11-30 05:27 by alimente.
Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Posted by:
MileHigh
()
Date: November 30, 2015 06:11
This album is practically encoded into my DNA.
Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Posted by:
alimente
()
Date: November 30, 2015 08:15
Quote
MileHigh
This album is practically encoded into my DNA.
Into mine, too - that's why my blood literally starts to boil when I witness any mediocre ratings....
Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: November 30, 2015 10:11
Quote
alimenteQuote
DandelionPowderman
One cannot give LIV 9/10 when there are other superior versions out there (The studio version, Leeds 71, Texas 72, Texas 78 etc.).
As a subjective statement based on your own personal taste I can live with that. However, trying to make it sound like an objective judgement ("one cannot" instead of "I cannot") is foul play in my book. It is debatable whether the versions you mentioned are superior or not, but that leads to nothing because one's personal taste is just that - one's personal taste. In my (personal, of course) book YaYa's is the perfect version (and that includes the vocals!), but the other versions are great too. I would not put down any of them with a mediocre rating.
See my reply to Turner above. I agree, the way I formulated it was clumsily indeed
That said, it is also foul play saying that «Stones isn't my thing» if I rate the Leeds or Roundhouse LIV 10/10 and the Ya Ya's version 7/10.
After all, when looking at this a bit more analytically, there are wrong key changes (Bill) on the Ya Ya's version, which doesn't happen on the other versions + the vocal crescendos are missing on the Ya Ya's version. If you care about stuff like that, which I'm sure that many do when they rate a version, I'd say you're a good listener, not a Stones novice
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015-11-30 10:20 by DandelionPowderman.
Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Posted by:
Come On
()
Date: November 30, 2015 10:51
To sit and analyze music has never been my bag. When I hear a great song the first time, so it's a great song even when 50 years have passed. Stones sounds damn good on Ya yas, still ...
2 1 2 0
2 1 2 0
Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Posted by:
bitusa2012
()
Date: November 30, 2015 11:05
Quote
DandelionPowderman
After all, when looking at this a bit more analytically, there are wrong key changes (Bill) on the Ya Ya's version, which doesn't happen on the other versions + the vocal crescendos are missing on the Ya Ya's version. If you care about stuff like that, which I'm sure that many do when they rate a version, I'd say you're a good listener, not a Stones novice
If you have to analyse rather than feel, well, sorry, no hope for ya! ;-)
I just listen and enjoy, and sometimes I really listen and really enjoy. I don't analyse. I know what sounds good to me, even with obvious mistakes on occasion, and I know what feels good TO ME. Without ANALYSIS.
Rod
Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: November 30, 2015 11:07
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
alimenteQuote
DandelionPowderman
One cannot give LIV 9/10 when there are other superior versions out there (The studio version, Leeds 71, Texas 72, Texas 78 etc.).
As a subjective statement based on your own personal taste I can live with that. However, trying to make it sound like an objective judgement ("one cannot" instead of "I cannot") is foul play in my book. It is debatable whether the versions you mentioned are superior or not, but that leads to nothing because one's personal taste is just that - one's personal taste. In my (personal, of course) book YaYa's is the perfect version (and that includes the vocals!), but the other versions are great too. I would not put down any of them with a mediocre rating.
See my reply to Turner above. I agree, the way I formulated it was clumsily indeed
That said, it is also foul play saying that «Stones isn't my thing» if I rate the Leeds or Roundhouse LIV 10/10 and the Ya Ya's version 7/10.
After all, when looking at this a bit more analytically, there are wrong key changes (Bill) on the Ya Ya's version, which doesn't happen on the other versions + the vocal crescendos are missing on the Ya Ya's version. If you care about stuff like that, which I'm sure that many do when they rate a version, I'd say you're a good listener, not a Stones novice
It's good to know that I am not a good listener, and a Stones novice...
- Doxa
Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Posted by:
matxil
()
Date: November 30, 2015 11:07
Quote
GasLightStreetQuote
matxilQuote
Hairball
While they're all standout tracks, I should qualify that by saying I'm probably in the minority in thinking the Chuck Berry covers aren't the greatest.
A bit slow and sludgy, and although Keith's riffs are essential, hard to top the Chuck originals imo.
With that said, they're party of the overall vibe and what makes the album great, therefore they are standouts.
I love those Chuck Berry tracks, especially Little Queenie. I think the slowing down of it, and the heavy riffing each time after Mick sings: "Meanwhile, I was stiiiiiil thinking", all add to make it sound very dirty.
Whereas the original Chuck Berry version is naughty: a man excited by looking at a pretty girl, the Stones turn it into a very dark, horny, dirty, almost pornographic thing. "Meanwhile, I was thinking..." and you almost hesitate to imagine what he's thinking about.
The Stones doing Chuck Berry songs... Chuck Berry's versions are bettered by the Stones. I've yet to hear a Chuck song be as good as the way the Stones did it. It's strange to say that but I think the Stones are better at Chuck Berry than Chuck Berry is!
Keith is way more detailed in the playing where as Chuck, he's just thinkin' about the money and bum notes be damned. Listen to his Around And Around and then the Stones... there's some awful notes in Chuck's version. The Stones? They make that song burn with fire.
The two Chuck Berry songs on GYYYO are supreme - yeah, they are slower; they're mean. They are deliberately heavy. Because it sounds fantastic.
Not only do the Stones often sound better than Chuck Berry himself when playing his songs, I think they are also one of the very few bands who can actually play Chuck Berry songs the right way. Most bands play it as plain, cosy rock-n-roll. The Stones make it sound groovy, dirty and - as you say - mean.
Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Posted by:
Turner68
()
Date: November 30, 2015 11:20
Quote
DoxaQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
alimenteQuote
DandelionPowderman
One cannot give LIV 9/10 when there are other superior versions out there (The studio version, Leeds 71, Texas 72, Texas 78 etc.).
As a subjective statement based on your own personal taste I can live with that. However, trying to make it sound like an objective judgement ("one cannot" instead of "I cannot") is foul play in my book. It is debatable whether the versions you mentioned are superior or not, but that leads to nothing because one's personal taste is just that - one's personal taste. In my (personal, of course) book YaYa's is the perfect version (and that includes the vocals!), but the other versions are great too. I would not put down any of them with a mediocre rating.
See my reply to Turner above. I agree, the way I formulated it was clumsily indeed
That said, it is also foul play saying that «Stones isn't my thing» if I rate the Leeds or Roundhouse LIV 10/10 and the Ya Ya's version 7/10.
After all, when looking at this a bit more analytically, there are wrong key changes (Bill) on the Ya Ya's version, which doesn't happen on the other versions + the vocal crescendos are missing on the Ya Ya's version. If you care about stuff like that, which I'm sure that many do when they rate a version, I'd say you're a good listener, not a Stones novice
It's good to know that I am not a good listener, and a Stones novice...
- Doxa
You're making a fallacious inference - the inverse of a statement is not necessarily true, only the contrapositive is.
[hotmath.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-11-30 11:22 by Turner68.
Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: November 30, 2015 12:33
Quote
Turner68Quote
DoxaQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
alimenteQuote
DandelionPowderman
One cannot give LIV 9/10 when there are other superior versions out there (The studio version, Leeds 71, Texas 72, Texas 78 etc.).
As a subjective statement based on your own personal taste I can live with that. However, trying to make it sound like an objective judgement ("one cannot" instead of "I cannot") is foul play in my book. It is debatable whether the versions you mentioned are superior or not, but that leads to nothing because one's personal taste is just that - one's personal taste. In my (personal, of course) book YaYa's is the perfect version (and that includes the vocals!), but the other versions are great too. I would not put down any of them with a mediocre rating.
See my reply to Turner above. I agree, the way I formulated it was clumsily indeed
That said, it is also foul play saying that «Stones isn't my thing» if I rate the Leeds or Roundhouse LIV 10/10 and the Ya Ya's version 7/10.
After all, when looking at this a bit more analytically, there are wrong key changes (Bill) on the Ya Ya's version, which doesn't happen on the other versions + the vocal crescendos are missing on the Ya Ya's version. If you care about stuff like that, which I'm sure that many do when they rate a version, I'd say you're a good listener, not a Stones novice
It's good to know that I am not a good listener, and a Stones novice...
- Doxa
You're making a fallacious inference - the inverse of a statement is not necessarily true, only the contrapositive is.
[hotmath.com]
Aah, not just a guardian of the Holy Keithette Church, but that of logic as well.. good we all have some sort of function here...
- Doxa
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