u can't play scales on slide in standard tuning... only high single-note melody.. i mean one line of notes when comes to sheet music.... otherwise this would be a dissonance... u see... open tuning invented specially to play scales and chords by means of slide! thus making use of standard tuning for slide ridiculous, should i say... exept for a lick or two during the whole song



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-11 17:28 by NathanLaze.

well. i meant scales are intervals. i.e terzia, quarta etc... sorry as i may be using the wrong word... i/e u cant play two notes--in terzia, par example-- in standart slide.... so thats it



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-11 17:34 by NathanLaze.

u see.. playing a chord progression and waving legs in the air at the same time... way too tricky to learn complex chords... etc... when your guitar could produce a tonic buzzing chord, with added 4th being taken lightly with your index finger, then... so u can dance.... every dance with the guy... and whatever else






Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-11 17:40 by NathanLaze.

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NathanLaze
u see.. playing a chord progression and waving legs in the air at the same time... way too tricky to learn complex chords... etc... when your guitar could produce a tonic buzzing chord, with added 4th being taken lightly with your index finger, then... so u can dance.... every dance with the guy... and whatever else

Well, you are dead right about the point of open tunings there Nathan....nobody's arguing about that .

..but Keith's electric guitars are tuned to either standard or to open G, then with a capo at the appropriate fret for the next song.'

He changes guitars after almost every song partly because he's got a lot of guitars, so he can ...and more practically , because the next one will be perfectly tuned up by the backline crew...not because its in a totally different tuning .



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-11 18:06 by Spud.

You have to have good guitar technique to play slide in standard tunings.
Muting the strings is important in standard tuning due to the placement of the notes you have to play. In open e tuning, a lot of the notes are straight across the fretboard and are easier to play because of this.

maybe u are right Spud... but i never saw keef holding ANY standard chord on his fretboard by looking at his concert photos spanning over last 40 years, believe me... and i know what's e or g major fingering looks like.

also, open g doesn't allow minor chords...open g means open g major chord.... i may be wrong ??



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-11 18:21 by NathanLaze.

well yes i too wanted to say that muting strings in standart slide is a mess... so,,,,, why using it anyways when you can afford any open tuning u like... or overdub as much as u can



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-11 18:21 by NathanLaze.

Quote Nathan
"maybe u are right Spud... but i never saw keef holding ANY standard chord on his fretboard by looking at his concert photos spanning over last 40 years, believe me... and i know what's e or g major fingering looks like.

also, open g doesn't allow minor chords...open g means open g major chord.... i may be wrong ??"


Maybe because he doesn't play a lot of whole chords Nathan.

It's all a part of his evolved style & technique..



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-11 18:26 by Spud.

yes Spud one could play as many chords in his own way as he likes... but he couldn't get away from minor chords, for Christ's sake.... it's like avoiding c# or Eb.

btw... not playing whole chords in standard tuning would be a cacophony...there are always some strict rules u cant avoid.. i play a bit and i know, really,,, in a band not so big as cream or deep purple though.................... so u see what's so many different open tunings are for, i dont mean open g only.... added 4rd can be taken with one finger, 7th with another one... so.... someone can wave his legs, too



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-11 18:42 by NathanLaze.

Jeebus krist!

I'm putting this down to language barrier.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-11 19:04 by His Majesty.

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Mathijs

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TheflyingDutchman
Mick Taylor advised to practice slide starting off with open tuning if you really want to master it.

I would advise the contrary. When you play slide in open tuning I find it difficult to extend beyond the standard licks, the ones we've all heard and played a thousand times. When you play slide in standard tuning it really worked for me to basically play the same solo's you play with fingers with the slide. The first solo of Sway is a good example of this. It took me quite some years to be any good at it, and it took some learnings about guitar set up and equipment to sound any good.

To do something that Derek Trucks does is mind blowing to me, to play all those fantastic scales in open E tuning. I can only play scales in standard tuning, in open tuning I find it difficult to go beyond the standard pentatonic stuff.

Mathijs

Mathijs you are good! This makes perfect sense to me !

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NathanLaze
u can't play scales on slide in standard tuning... only high single-note melody.. i mean one line of notes when comes to sheet music.... otherwise this would be a dissonance... u see... open tuning invented specially to play scales and chords by means of slide! thus making use of standard tuning for slide ridiculous, should i say... exept for a lick or two during the whole song

yes you can play slide in standard tuning as I know because I use it in standard tunning

Let's hear another pro than Mick Taylor talk and why playing slide in standard tuning:

Warren Haynes shows Slide in standard tuning , and why.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-11 20:42 by TheflyingDutchman.

of course one can play minor chords in open tunings. you just need three notes.

wow from my error about MT's tuning we fell down this rabbit hole. amazing

I play slide in standard now and then and I certain play a lot of opening tuning stuff without using a slide. The scales are all still the same intervals they are just placed on the neck differently. One just has to memorize the fretboard a few more times. part of the beauty of rediscovery IMO. a source of inspiration

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dadrob

wow from my error about MT's tuning we fell down this rabbit hole. amazing

Classic IORR.

In the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king.

Anybody know if Taylor plays No Expectations in standard or open in LA ‘73? I’ll listen when I get home, but that question just popped in my head.

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TheflyingDutchman
In the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king.

Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And don’t criticize
What you can’t understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is rapidly aging

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His Majesty
Jeebus krist!

I'm putting this down to language barrier.

Yes Yer Maj . I tried...but I give up

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dadrob
of course one can play minor chords in open tunings.

at least u can't play a g minor chord in open g

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NathanLaze

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dadrob
of course one can play minor chords in open tunings.

at least u can't play a g minor chord in open g

Yes you can. In at least 3 positions.

Mathijs

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TravelinMan
Anybody know if Taylor plays No Expectations in standard or open in LA ‘73? I’ll listen when I get home, but that question just popped in my head.

Standard tuning.

Mathijs

Quote
NathanLaze
u can't play scales on slide in standard tuning... only high single-note melody.. i mean one line of notes when comes to sheet music.... otherwise this would be a dissonance... u see... open tuning invented specially to play scales and chords by means of slide! thus making use of standard tuning for slide ridiculous, should i say... exept for a lick or two during the whole song

With slide in standard tuning you can play 3-note major chords, 2 note double stops, 2-note minor interval, 2-note turn-arounds, and single note lead lines.

And I find Taylor's slide work on All Down The Line live in '72 and '73 the opposite of 'ridiculous'.

Mathijs



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-12 16:43 by Mathijs.

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NathanLaze
well yes i too wanted to say that muting strings in standart slide is a mess... so,,,,, why using it anyways when you can afford any open tuning u like... or overdub as much as u can

Raise the action of your guitar, find the slide that works for you and practice, practice, practice.

Mathijs

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Mathijs

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TravelinMan
Anybody know if Taylor plays No Expectations in standard or open in LA ‘73? I’ll listen when I get home, but that question just popped in my head.

Standard tuning.

Mathijs

Thanks. He must have switched everything over to standard tuning live.

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Mathijs

Raise the action of your guitar, find the slide that works for you and practice, practice, practice.

Mathijs

And shall I put my bottleneck on the ring finger or on the pinkie?

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Mathijs

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NathanLaze
u can't play scales on slide in standard tuning... only high single-note melody.. i mean one line of notes when comes to sheet music.... otherwise this would be a dissonance... u see... open tuning invented specially to play scales and chords by means of slide! thus making use of standard tuning for slide ridiculous, should i say... exept for a lick or two during the whole song

With slide in standard tuning you can play 3-note major chords, 2 note double stops, 2-note minor interval, 2-note turn-arounds, and single note lead lines.

And I find Taylor's slide work on All Down The Line live in '72 and '73 the opposite of 'ridiculous'.

Mathijs

Whilst I agree with you in one sense, use of open tunings can allow a larger number of double stop and fast picked intervals to be played. This is why us steel players go for tunings such as c6. (E9 chromatic on pedal steel, but that's a different beast)

In both cases, 99% of the technique is in the right hand technique.

Quote
NathanLaze
u can't play scales on slide in standard tuning... only high single-note melody.. i mean one line of notes when comes to sheet music.... otherwise this would be a dissonance... u see... open tuning invented specially to play scales and chords by means of slide! thus making use of standard tuning for slide ridiculous, should i say... exept for a lick or two during the whole song

Jeff Beck.

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bleedingman

Quote
NathanLaze
u can't play scales on slide in standard tuning... only high single-note melody.. i mean one line of notes when comes to sheet music.... otherwise this would be a dissonance... u see... open tuning invented specially to play scales and chords by means of slide! thus making use of standard tuning for slide ridiculous, should i say... exept for a lick or two during the whole song

Jeff Beck.

There are quite a few players who can do very good slide on standard tuning - Mick Taylor being one of them. If you practice hard and are precise in your playing, it's not too hard. Likewise, I've seen a few players playing amazing (non slide) lead guitar in open tunings. After all, it's just a different tuning. Once you know the shapes there is no real difference except the intervals between notes from one string to another. Keith does the lead guitar solo to HTW every single gig in open G.

However, moving back to the reason for using open tunings for slide guitar, there is a major misconception about it. You don't use open tuning so that you play an open chord. Most (good) slide players only ever play a couple of notes at once, usually to pick out harmonies or as bluesy double stops. Open strings are also useful if they are in the root chord. Blues uses this a lot. But more subtle slide guitar means better use of single notes and double stops (i.e. two notes played simultaneously on strings).

Taking standard tuning, you only have the perfect fourths (e.g. E to A, A to D etc.) and one major 3rd (G to B ). Moving to open G, you then have the minor third (B to D) which is very useful in blues (Just ask Muddy Waters!), as well as the 5th (G to D). So the reason for moving over to open tuning for slide has more to do with having more intervals available to you when you are using a straight slide. Yes, clever people can slant the bar, but this is very difficult to get right, and can then hamper your playing of other notes quickly.

Long and short of it is Taylor plays open tuning in 69 on Love in Vain and standard tuning in the 70s.

None of this has anything to do with Little Queenie which is in standard tuning for both Mick and Keith.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-02-13 00:45 by sjs12.