Made an observation, but I was wrong.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-02-15 20:29 by His Majesty.

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His Majesty
Made an observation, but I was wrong.

Which observation?

Lol..Almost 50 years later I still look at the pictures on the back...

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DandelionPowderman

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Eleanor Rigby

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His Majesty

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Mathijs


They did do some work to get it so down and dirty -Keith overdubbed his guitar on the choruses (Oh yeah!) and the solo. Listen with headphones and you can hear the change of sound and he changes to open D.

Mathijs

Not hearing open D in use.

Same.
Not hearing it either.

More in this thread.

And listen to the change in sound (especially how the chords ring) round the 0:12-mark.. I'd say open E.





[www.youtube.com]

Correct. The sound changes drastically at the Oh yeah mark, 1:12 into the song. Open D or Open E are the same to me. Also, Richards intro guitar is slightly out of tune, which remains throughout the track, except for the chordal work in the chorus and at the solo, the guitar then suddenly is in tune.

By the way: what a fantastic track it is, with a marvelous sounding and playing Watts.

Mathijs

Concerning another overdub I think there is: on Love in Vain, after the Taylor solo it seems that Richards is going out of tune. There is a second rhythm guitar in the middle of the stereo spectrum, at around 3:30 to 3:40. Its really low in volume, but it is there.

Mathijs

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DandelionPowderman

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Eleanor Rigby

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His Majesty

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Mathijs


They did do some work to get it so down and dirty -Keith overdubbed his guitar on the choruses (Oh yeah!) and the solo. Listen with headphones and you can hear the change of sound and he changes to open D.

Mathijs

Not hearing open D in use.

Same.
Not hearing it either.

More in this thread.

And listen to the change in sound (especially how the chords ring) round the 0:12-mark.. I'd say open E.





[www.youtube.com]

IMO you guys are getting weighed down by too much technical talk. Listen to the actual playing - that is not how Keith R played in Open Tuning in those years.
And I hear the swell in sound going INTO the chorus, but that is easily explained; and duplicated. Listen to it coming out of the chorus. That is the same guitar going back into the verse. Even on Dandy's quoted Youtube example. Plenty there at 0:41



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-02-16 15:01 by Palace Revolution 2000.

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Mathijs
Concerning another overdub I think there is: on Love in Vain, after the Taylor solo it seems that Richards is going out of tune. There is a second rhythm guitar in the middle of the stereo spectrum, at around 3:30 to 3:40. Its really low in volume, but it is there.

Mathijs

Jesus! You are a freak.

I wouldn't bee surprised if the list continues, 007 .

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Palace Revolution 2000

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DandelionPowderman

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Eleanor Rigby

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His Majesty

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Mathijs


They did do some work to get it so down and dirty -Keith overdubbed his guitar on the choruses (Oh yeah!) and the solo. Listen with headphones and you can hear the change of sound and he changes to open D.

Mathijs

Not hearing open D in use.

Same.
Not hearing it either.

More in this thread.

And listen to the change in sound (especially how the chords ring) round the 0:12-mark.. I'd say open E.





[www.youtube.com]

IMO you guys are getting weighed down by too much technical talk. Listen to the actual playing - that is not how Keith R played in Open Tuning in those years.
And I hear the swell in sound going INTO the chorus, but that is easily explained; and duplicated. Listen to it coming out of the chorus. That is the same guitar going back into the verse. Even on Dandy's quoted Youtube example. Plenty there at 0:41

Point is that playing in open E generates the same power chords as in standard tuning. So either it is an overdub in open E or standard tuning or Keith edited the sound in the studio a bit. Difficult to figure out everything for sure to me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-02-16 21:27 by TheflyingDutchman.

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TheflyingDutchman

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Palace Revolution 2000

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DandelionPowderman

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Eleanor Rigby

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His Majesty

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Mathijs


They did do some work to get it so down and dirty -Keith overdubbed his guitar on the choruses (Oh yeah!) and the solo. Listen with headphones and you can hear the change of sound and he changes to open D.

Mathijs

Not hearing open D in use.

Same.
Not hearing it either.

More in this thread.

And listen to the change in sound (especially how the chords ring) round the 0:12-mark.. I'd say open E.





[www.youtube.com]

IMO you guys are getting weighed down by too much technical talk. Listen to the actual playing - that is not how Keith R played in Open Tuning in those years.
And I hear the swell in sound going INTO the chorus, but that is easily explained; and duplicated. Listen to it coming out of the chorus. That is the same guitar going back into the verse. Even on Dandy's quoted Youtube example. Plenty there at 0:41

Point is that playing in open E generates the same power chords as in standard tuning. So either it is an overdub in open E or standard tuning or Keith edited the sound in the studio a bit. Difficult to figure out everything for sure to me.

I hear what you're saying. But isn't it kind of non-sensical for Keith to do it this way? First off, I don't agree that there was an O/d at all; but let's say there was. When Keith played in Open D/E in those years, he did not use it for power chords on electric guitar. And he is also producing a LIVE album. Now if he feels that some parts need touching up, or a boost - would he not try to make it sound like one performance from the stage? Why on earth would he decide to come in a different tuning?
I think we can assume that thoes verses are in standard tuning.

He used it for power chords on electric guitar on that very song in the studio.

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DandelionPowderman
He used it for power chords on electric guitar on that very song in the studio.

it does seems strange though?
anyway...will we ever know??

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DandelionPowderman
He used it for power chords on electric guitar on that very song in the studio.

And that's exactly what I think he did: overdub the same part and style as on the studio version.

Mathijs

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Eleanor Rigby

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Mathijs
Concerning another overdub I think there is: on Love in Vain, after the Taylor solo it seems that Richards is going out of tune. There is a second rhythm guitar in the middle of the stereo spectrum, at around 3:30 to 3:40. Its really low in volume, but it is there.

Mathijs

Jesus! You are a freak.

More a matter of a new set of very expensive headphones, and being bored while traveling the world in airplanes every week....

Mathijs

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Mathijs

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DandelionPowderman
He used it for power chords on electric guitar on that very song in the studio.

And that's exactly what I think he did: overdub the same part and style as on the studio version.

Mathijs

But, played rather differently.

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-02-17 19:51 by His Majesty.

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Eleanor Rigby


it does seems strange though?
anyway...will we ever know??

Not really.

Yes, just by working out what he plays.

Greatest live album

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His Majesty

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Eleanor Rigby


it does seems strange though?
anyway...will we ever know??

Not really.

Yes, just by working out what he plays.

Is there a difference between Keith's rhythm guitar during Taylor's first solo and
Taylor's second. tuning wise..Anyone ?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-02-17 22:25 by TheflyingDutchman.

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potus43
Greatest live album

Very Very TRUE!!!!

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His Majesty

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Mathijs

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DandelionPowderman
He used it for power chords on electric guitar on that very song in the studio.

And that's exactly what I think he did: overdub the same part and style as on the studio version.

Mathijs

But, played rather differently.

Yes, but the groove is also rather different on the live version.

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Palace Revolution 2000

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TheflyingDutchman

Point is that playing in open E generates the same power chords as in standard tuning. So either it is an overdub in open E or standard tuning or Keith edited the sound in the studio a bit. Difficult to figure out everything for sure to me.

I hear what you're saying. But isn't it kind of non-sensical for Keith to do it this way? First off, I don't agree that there was an O/d at all; but let's say there was. When Keith played in Open D/E in those years, he did not use it for power chords on electric guitar. And he is also producing a LIVE album. Now if he feels that some parts need touching up, or a boost - would he not try to make it sound like one performance from the stage? Why on earth would he decide to come in a different tuning?
I think we can assume that thoes verses are in standard tuning.

There are two verses with Taylor soloing. The verse that Mathijs is referring to (first solo) could very well be Keith in open E, during the second solo it could be Keith (in standard tuning ?) -playing powerchords as well, but it sounds slightly different.This could be proof for the open E overdub during Taylor's first solo. Not entirely sure. Keith stated in an interview that there are 6 or 7 guitars/ overdubs on certain tracks, "but you wouldn't even notice it".

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TheflyingDutchman

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Palace Revolution 2000

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TheflyingDutchman

Point is that playing in open E generates the same power chords as in standard tuning. So either it is an overdub in open E or standard tuning or Keith edited the sound in the studio a bit. Difficult to figure out everything for sure to me.

I hear what you're saying. But isn't it kind of non-sensical for Keith to do it this way? First off, I don't agree that there was an O/d at all; but let's say there was. When Keith played in Open D/E in those years, he did not use it for power chords on electric guitar. And he is also producing a LIVE album. Now if he feels that some parts need touching up, or a boost - would he not try to make it sound like one performance from the stage? Why on earth would he decide to come in a different tuning?
I think we can assume that thoes verses are in standard tuning.

There are two verses with Taylor soloing. The verse that Mathijs is referring to (first solo) could very well be Keith in open E, during the second solo it could be Keith (in standard tuning ?) -playing powerchords as well, but it sounds slightly different.This could be proof for the open E overdub during Taylor's first solo. Not entirely sure. Keith stated in an interview that there are 6 or 7 guitars/ overdubs on certain tracks, "but you wouldn't even notice it".

Dutch, are you referring to the studio version now?

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Palace Revolution 2000

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TheflyingDutchman

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Palace Revolution 2000

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TheflyingDutchman

Point is that playing in open E generates the same power chords as in standard tuning. So either it is an overdub in open E or standard tuning or Keith edited the sound in the studio a bit. Difficult to figure out everything for sure to me.

I hear what you're saying. But isn't it kind of non-sensical for Keith to do it this way? First off, I don't agree that there was an O/d at all; but let's say there was. When Keith played in Open D/E in those years, he did not use it for power chords on electric guitar. And he is also producing a LIVE album. Now if he feels that some parts need touching up, or a boost - would he not try to make it sound like one performance from the stage? Why on earth would he decide to come in a different tuning?
I think we can assume that thoes verses are in standard tuning.

There are two verses with Taylor soloing. The verse that Mathijs is referring to (first solo) could very well be Keith in open E, during the second solo it could be Keith (in standard tuning ?) -playing powerchords as well, but it sounds slightly different.This could be proof for the open E overdub during Taylor's first solo. Not entirely sure. Keith stated in an interview that there are 6 or 7 guitars/ overdubs on certain tracks, "but you wouldn't even notice it".

Dutch, are you referring to the studio version now?

No no, Yaya's. Give it a listen, I'm just trying to solve the case

I have been on a 1969 tour jag lately and have been listening to the bootlegs from the tour starting with Hyde Park and you can really hear the band coming together as the tour progresses to the point where they really click in Detroit.

Related to that I have listened to the audience recordings of the MSG shows on the Nov 27th and the Nov 28th evening show, from the VGP "Broadway" 3 CD bootleg release, and while I understand Mick's desire to have perfect vocals the audience recordings show, for me at least, he sounded pretty damn good without the overdubbed vocals on GYYO.

Also listened to the old Head label vinyl boot "Stoned MSG", from the Nov. 27th show, and is it my imagination or does the old vinyl sound better than any of the later CD bootlegs?

Are there more than one audience recording source from the Nov. 27th show?

Also there has never been any bootleg releases of the Nov 28th early show as far as I know? Any rumours of a tape in collectors hands?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-02-20 04:23 by oldschool.

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TheflyingDutchman

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Palace Revolution 2000

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TheflyingDutchman

Point is that playing in open E generates the same power chords as in standard tuning. So either it is an overdub in open E or standard tuning or Keith edited the sound in the studio a bit. Difficult to figure out everything for sure to me.

I hear what you're saying. But isn't it kind of non-sensical for Keith to do it this way? First off, I don't agree that there was an O/d at all; but let's say there was. When Keith played in Open D/E in those years, he did not use it for power chords on electric guitar. And he is also producing a LIVE album. Now if he feels that some parts need touching up, or a boost - would he not try to make it sound like one performance from the stage? Why on earth would he decide to come in a different tuning?
I think we can assume that thoes verses are in standard tuning.

There are two verses with Taylor soloing. The verse that Mathijs is referring to (first solo) could very well be Keith in open E, during the second solo it could be Keith (in standard tuning ?) -playing powerchords as well, but it sounds slightly different.This could be proof for the open E overdub during Taylor's first solo. Not entirely sure. Keith stated in an interview that there are 6 or 7 guitars/ overdubs on certain tracks, "but you wouldn't even notice it".

The rhythm guitar on the second solo indeed sounds different than on the first solo. Darker, and could be standard tuning.

Mathijs

[youtu.be]

[youtu.be]

On the Glyn Johns mix it sounds pretty unified as one guitar. It doesn't sound much like a punch in or out, on Keith's tracks.
SCB 69 should be from a NYC show, not Baltimore.

Its been said many times, but I had never done it: to listen to Stones shows from '69 tour, and follow the development from West to East. Its been a real treat. They did this song so well in 69. The "Its no hanging matter" part that keeps crashing in, with those two machine gun guitars on the root note has great drama. I checked some versions from Nicaragua Benefit, and Far East 73, where they still played it: by then Taylor was just flying, and over-soloing. And Keith was picking it more. So all that raunch was gone.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-02-20 18:09 by Palace Revolution 2000.

@ Palace, is there a raw version of SCB (yaya's)that we are discussing here? That could settle it straight away.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-02-20 21:56 by TheflyingDutchman.

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TheflyingDutchman
@ Palace, is there a raw version of SCB (yaya's)that we are discussing here? That could settle it straight away.

Did you hear the Glyn Johns version up there? Its about as raw as I could find. It must be from a NYC show, because I checked. For me the easiest way is to check that last chorus (the one you call his second solo). Under the word 'Strange", in the line "oh yeah you're a strange stray cat", TAYLOR bends this great note; high in the mix. He never did it except on the yaYas version. That one I have never heard elsewhere.
What is obvious to me is that Keith plays it pretty much the same on every show. I listened to all 69 shows I have. They all sound dead like the Yayas version.
On the studio version there is nothing similar to his style of Ya-Yas.

I had to edit: it was unclear, when I was talking about the bend in that 2nd chrous, I was talking about Mick Taylor; not Keith.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-02-22 03:07 by Palace Revolution 2000.

I was actually looking for the unedited SCB version with good stereo audio quality (or even footage) that later appeared on Yaya's. If that pops up we know for sure: Keith didn't change guitars during Taylor's solo on the original. This interesting SCB version seems to be missing on youtube, actually it's nowhere to be found.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-02-21 00:31 by TheflyingDutchman.