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Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Posted by: Redhotcarpet ()
Date: February 12, 2018 14:21

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DandelionPowderman
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bitusa2012
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DandelionPowderman

If I should compare, though, I'd say that JJF, LIV, SFM are superior on the their respective studio albums.

What was JJF's studio album??? ;-)

Through The Past, Darkly? winking smiley

Yes actually it was. That's great compilation. I dont know if the songs are but the packaging and timing. The timing maybe not but sort of. Maybe they could have compiled a totally Brian focused LP in his honor but then that wouldnt sincere. Maybe the sleeve was fitting. Very cool timeless cover.

Of course I dont own a copy, instead I bought the pile of shite compilation from Decca with the much sought after studio version of JJF. What was the name of that? Gimme Shelter.

Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Date: February 12, 2018 14:26

Quote
His Majesty
Live Stray Cat Blues better than studio version? Super lolz.

"Stray Cat Blues" turns out to be one of those brilliant re-imaginings for the Live Stage, by the Stones. On "Banquet" the song gets a wonderful studio treatment. The stinging guitar, but more than that it is that rolling rhythm underneath from Rocky Dijon and Nicky Hopkins. The Bass is very clean, sounds like played with pick. So there is a LOT of air between the lower and upper register. The guitars are pure Keith from that era. BB version also seems speeded up.
On Yayas, you have Taylor now, and only two guitars. They slow it down, and the guitars are heavier, crunchier, and closer together. Keith plays the main chord sequence completely different.
The guitars on Ya-Yas have great personal meaning to me. They were life changing. It opened up a new world to me when I realized how the two guitars would unite on the A chord for a bar or two, only to have Taylor take flight again; while Keith stayed down low.
And to this day if someone asks me for my favorite electric guitar ever, it is Keith behind Taylor in this song's guitar solo segment. The solo on the Gibson is great enough, but Keith chopping away back there with only style, technique and volume is the bee's knees. you can take all your fuzz boxes and tube screamers, but this particular sound is all balls.

Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Posted by: Silver Dagger ()
Date: February 12, 2018 14:49

I love both versions of Stray Cat Blues but the studio version is very special indeed.

It's one of those all too rare moments where the Stones jump out of their comfort zone and enter a whole new experimental area altogether.

The last minute or so goes into this fabulous white out, reminiscent of what the Velvet Underground were trying to achieve on tracks like European Son or Black Angel's Death Song. Overdriven guitars, and a feeling of controlled chaos.

Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: February 12, 2018 20:36

The studio version of Stray Cat Blues is so kick ass - it's dirty rocking and filthy rolling with the tempo picking up pace throughout.
It's like a giant wave that forms and then keeps pushing forward, keeping you up on the edge, about to go over the falls,
then suddenly crashing which it does with the extended coda...all washed up upon the shore wondering what the hell just happened.

--------------------------------
"Rip this joint, gonna save your soul..."

Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Posted by: ThePaleRider ()
Date: February 13, 2018 01:05

I love the locomotive beat that underpins Ya-ya's from start to finish. Rolling and tumbling...lurching...down the track....with one whistle stop.

Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Date: February 13, 2018 01:11

Needless to compare Live to Studio, In the studio you can experiment for months and release when you reached your goal. Live you rehearse first and then deliver on the spot. Different approach, artistically.

Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: February 13, 2018 10:22

Quote
TheflyingDutchman
Needless to compare Live to Studio, In the studio you can experiment for months and release when you reached your goal. Live you rehearse first and then deliver on the spot. Different approach, artistically.

But even Keith has said at times that the songs get better when played live. So that's why the comparison. Especially when something turns out so different, like the various live versions of JJF, SFTD, YCAGWYW, SFM, Under My Thumb, a few others.

Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: February 13, 2018 10:51

Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
TheflyingDutchman
Needless to compare Live to Studio, In the studio you can experiment for months and release when you reached your goal. Live you rehearse first and then deliver on the spot. Different approach, artistically.

But even Keith has said at times that the songs get better when played live. So that's why the comparison. Especially when something turns out so different, like the various live versions of JJF, SFTD, YCAGWYW, SFM, Under My Thumb, a few others.

Comparing live vs studio is totally valid and worthwhile, but just because something turns out different doesn't necessarily means that it's better, and just because Keith said at times the songs get better when played live doesn't necessarily mean they are. Maybe to him they are, but isn't better or worse subjective and all a matter of personal opinion? While there are many great variations and live versions of the songs you mention, I would still say the studio versions are the ultimate superior versions (deja vu as I think we've been down this path not too long ago ha). And for proper context, Keith said that quote when discussing the On Air release and all of those early tunes they used to play. Some might have been recorded badly with primitive tools in a sterile studio setting without much of their input, but when they had the chance to unleash them live, they became "better" according to him. Not sure if he's ever talked about later songs getting "better" in a live setting, but sounds like something he might say about all Stones songs.

--------------------------------
"Rip this joint, gonna save your soul..."




Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-02-13 11:10 by Hairball.

Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: February 13, 2018 12:19

It's all subjective so no need for any angst about it. grinning smiley

Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: February 13, 2018 14:21

Quote
Palace Revolution 2000

And to this day if someone asks me for my favorite electric guitar ever, it is Keith behind Taylor in this song's guitar solo segment. The solo on the Gibson is great enough, but Keith chopping away back there with only style, technique and volume is the bee's knees. you can take all your fuzz boxes and tube screamers, but this particular sound is all balls.

They did do some work to get it so down and dirty -Keith overdubbed his guitar on the choruses (Oh yeah!) and the solo. Listen with headphones and you can hear the change of sound and he changes to open D.

Mathijs

Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Date: February 13, 2018 14:46

Quote
His Majesty
It's all subjective so no need for any angst about it. grinning smiley



Yaya's is a "Frankenstein" product, HM. Angst? I'm scared to death.grinning smiley

Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: February 13, 2018 14:55

Quote
TheflyingDutchman


Yaya's is a "Frankenstein" product, HM. Angst? I'm scared to death.grinning smiley

Just meaning in general, not you specifically. grinning smiley

Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: February 13, 2018 15:13

Quote
Mathijs


They did do some work to get it so down and dirty -Keith overdubbed his guitar on the choruses (Oh yeah!) and the solo. Listen with headphones and you can hear the change of sound and he changes to open D.

Mathijs

Not hearing open D in use.

Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Posted by: Eleanor Rigby ()
Date: February 13, 2018 15:29

Reckon the Altamont version of SCB is unreal.
Keith hammering away whilst Taylor solos..wow.

Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Date: February 13, 2018 15:31

Quote
His Majesty
Quote
Mathijs


They did do some work to get it so down and dirty -Keith overdubbed his guitar on the choruses (Oh yeah!) and the solo. Listen with headphones and you can hear the change of sound and he changes to open D.

Mathijs

Not hearing open D in use.

Some clips were posted here a few years ago of parts of SCB that sounded suspiciously like open tuning overdubs.

Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Date: February 13, 2018 15:38

Quote
His Majesty
Quote
Mathijs


They did do some work to get it so down and dirty -Keith overdubbed his guitar on the choruses (Oh yeah!) and the solo. Listen with headphones and you can hear the change of sound and he changes to open D.

Mathijs

Not hearing open D in use.

I don't hear it either. What amazes me though is how they (Richards and Taylor) got that heavy distorted guitar sound. On the MSG footage they go straight into the ampegs. SCB starts clean and ends up almost "heavy metal", soundwise.

Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Posted by: bitusa2012 ()
Date: February 13, 2018 15:39

GYYYO.. Shows WHY The Rolling Stones were, are and always will be, the World's Greatest Rock and Roll band. Sublime, delicious, decadent, filthy and snarly.

****** Rod - love the missus, the Stones, Springsteen, Travel, NYC, Cars and Apple.

Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Date: February 13, 2018 16:28

Quote
TheflyingDutchman
Quote
His Majesty
Quote
Mathijs


They did do some work to get it so down and dirty -Keith overdubbed his guitar on the choruses (Oh yeah!) and the solo. Listen with headphones and you can hear the change of sound and he changes to open D.

Mathijs

Not hearing open D in use.

I don't hear it either. What amazes me though is how they (Richards and Taylor) got that heavy distorted guitar sound. On the MSG footage they go straight into the ampegs. SCB starts clean and ends up almost "heavy metal", soundwise.

They turn up their guitar volume.

Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Date: February 13, 2018 17:24

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
TheflyingDutchman
Quote
His Majesty
Quote
Mathijs


They did do some work to get it so down and dirty -Keith overdubbed his guitar on the choruses (Oh yeah!) and the solo. Listen with headphones and you can hear the change of sound and he changes to open D.

Mathijs

Not hearing open D in use.

I don't hear it either. What amazes me though is how they (Richards and Taylor) got that heavy distorted guitar sound. On the MSG footage they go straight into the ampegs. SCB starts clean and ends up almost "heavy metal", soundwise.

They turn up their guitar volume.

To that degree? I remember cranking up my Ampeg vt22 at the time to 9, using a Les Paul with EMG pickups and it still was almost clean, had to use a TS to get significant distortion.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-02-13 17:27 by TheflyingDutchman.

Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: February 13, 2018 19:02

Quote
Hairball
Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
TheflyingDutchman
Needless to compare Live to Studio, In the studio you can experiment for months and release when you reached your goal. Live you rehearse first and then deliver on the spot. Different approach, artistically.

But even Keith has said at times that the songs get better when played live. So that's why the comparison. Especially when something turns out so different, like the various live versions of JJF, SFTD, YCAGWYW, SFM, Under My Thumb, a few others.

Comparing live vs studio is totally valid and worthwhile, but just because something turns out different doesn't necessarily means that it's better, and just because Keith said at times the songs get better when played live doesn't necessarily mean they are. Maybe to him they are, but isn't better or worse subjective and all a matter of personal opinion? While there are many great variations and live versions of the songs you mention, I would still say the studio versions are the ultimate superior versions (deja vu as I think we've been down this path not too long ago ha). And for proper context, Keith said that quote when discussing the On Air release and all of those early tunes they used to play. Some might have been recorded badly with primitive tools in a sterile studio setting without much of their input, but when they had the chance to unleash them live, they became "better" according to him. Not sure if he's ever talked about later songs getting "better" in a live setting, but sounds like something he might say about all Stones songs.

It's true that not all songs are better or get better live. Undercover Of The Night is a perfect example of something not being better. Neighbours is another.

But Start Me Up, at least in 1989/90 was way better. Midnight Rambler... Shattered in 1994 was killer. But yes, it's all subjective. But sometimes it's just obvious.

Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: February 13, 2018 19:05

Quote
TheflyingDutchman
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
TheflyingDutchman
Quote
His Majesty
Quote
Mathijs


They did do some work to get it so down and dirty -Keith overdubbed his guitar on the choruses (Oh yeah!) and the solo. Listen with headphones and you can hear the change of sound and he changes to open D.

Mathijs

Not hearing open D in use.

I don't hear it either. What amazes me though is how they (Richards and Taylor) got that heavy distorted guitar sound. On the MSG footage they go straight into the ampegs. SCB starts clean and ends up almost "heavy metal", soundwise.

They turn up their guitar volume.

To that degree? I remember cranking up my Ampeg vt22 at the time to 9, using a Les Paul with EMG pickups and it still was almost clean, had to use a TS to get significant distortion.

Some amps, old ones anyway, will do that as the tubes get hot.

Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Date: February 13, 2018 19:15

Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
TheflyingDutchman
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
TheflyingDutchman
Quote
His Majesty
Quote
Mathijs


They did do some work to get it so down and dirty -Keith overdubbed his guitar on the choruses (Oh yeah!) and the solo. Listen with headphones and you can hear the change of sound and he changes to open D.

Mathijs

Not hearing open D in use.

I don't hear it either. What amazes me though is how they (Richards and Taylor) got that heavy distorted guitar sound. On the MSG footage they go straight into the ampegs. SCB starts clean and ends up almost "heavy metal", soundwise.

They turn up their guitar volume.

To that degree? I remember cranking up my Ampeg vt22 at the time to 9, using a Les Paul with EMG pickups and it still was almost clean, had to use a TS to get significant distortion.

Some amps, old ones anyway, will do that as the tubes get hot.

Exactly.

And we can hear them crank up the volume on several shows from that era. Sometimes with a tremendous feedback smiling smiley

They have cranked amps with distorted sound that gets cleaner when turning the volume down (like in the beginning of SCB or LIV).

It didn't work so well with Fenders in smaller clubs on the 1971-tour, though..

Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: February 13, 2018 19:29

Don't those Ampegs have like a mid boost or something similar? That would up the dirt.

Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Date: February 13, 2018 20:24

Quote
DandelionPowderman



And we can hear them crank up the volume on several shows from that era. Sometimes with a tremendous feedback smiling smiley

Must have been very loud up there. cool smiley

Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Posted by: Eleanor Rigby ()
Date: February 14, 2018 01:59

Keith cranks his up to 10 for Street FM !!
The finale !!!

Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Date: February 14, 2018 03:59

Quote
Mathijs
Quote
Palace Revolution 2000

And to this day if someone asks me for my favorite electric guitar ever, it is Keith behind Taylor in this song's guitar solo segment. The solo on the Gibson is great enough, but Keith chopping away back there with only style, technique and volume is the bee's knees. you can take all your fuzz boxes and tube screamers, but this particular sound is all balls.

They did do some work to get it so down and dirty -Keith overdubbed his guitar on the choruses (Oh yeah!) and the solo. Listen with headphones and you can hear the change of sound and he changes to open D.

Mathijs

Mathijs, I don't hear that. I hold your technical knowledge in very high esteem, and there have been many times when your input has made me re-evaluate my point of view, and in the process taught me quite a bit.
But listening to his parts on that song, and I have countless times, I believe that it is straight performance. It may be a case of overthink. There really are not all that many guitar o/d on Yayas IMO. And the ones that do exist - are very well for technical reasons.
I myself have come pretty close to getting a sound like that going into an Ampeg, going from that rough chopping in verses to full chords, all out strumming, at high volume. Also - the phrasing just doesn't sound Open D IMo. I have only my sense to go on, but it doesn't seem that Keith used Open D for such full power chord part.
When he would strum chords in Open D it was on acoustic guitars, on electric he added color.

Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: February 15, 2018 10:31

Quote
His Majesty
Don't those Ampegs have like a mid boost or something similar? That would up the dirt.

Yes, the SVT's from 69 to about 74 have a mid boost that works as a negative feedback, meaning you add drive and distortion. But still, you'd have to turn them up past 5 to get them cranked. We tried it once on stage with an early 70's SVT, and the volume was simply mind blowing, and truly not workable on modern stages.

The overdrive on the '68/'69 was different though than on later versions. There's a bit more treble, and they overdrive faster due to different tubes and tube biassing, they ran much more hot than later versions. From 1970 on they started to sound darker, and with a lower growl. The versions they used on the 1975 tour were actually V-9's, which was the guitar version of the SVT. These had a much more 'modern' sound, more like an overdriven Fender Tweed or Boogie.

Mathijs

Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Posted by: Eleanor Rigby ()
Date: February 15, 2018 16:12

Quote
His Majesty
Quote
Mathijs


They did do some work to get it so down and dirty -Keith overdubbed his guitar on the choruses (Oh yeah!) and the solo. Listen with headphones and you can hear the change of sound and he changes to open D.

Mathijs

Not hearing open D in use.

Same.
Not hearing it either.

Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Posted by: beachbreak ()
Date: February 15, 2018 16:58

Mick Taylor's solo on SFM is scorching!

After he left, they could never get that type sound again.

Re: LIVE ALBUM TALK: Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out
Date: February 15, 2018 17:09

Quote
Eleanor Rigby
Quote
His Majesty
Quote
Mathijs


They did do some work to get it so down and dirty -Keith overdubbed his guitar on the choruses (Oh yeah!) and the solo. Listen with headphones and you can hear the change of sound and he changes to open D.

Mathijs

Not hearing open D in use.

Same.
Not hearing it either.

More in this thread.

And listen to the change in sound (especially how the chords ring) round the 0:12-mark.. I'd say open E.





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