One of 18 good songs on EOMS,

it's just great !
Stones at their best...
thank God for songs like this

I Just Want To See His Face, Torn And Frayed and Turd are the only tracks recorded at Sunset for EXILE. The sound of them fits the France and STICKY FINGERS sessions recordings.

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novica
it's just great !
Stones at their best...
thank God for songs like this

Beware of the term " best ".
Don't worry,I share your opinion...

An aptly named song

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TravelinMan
Sure sounds like Mick Taylor on slide on this song, most evident at 2:20. Richards never played like that. I did an EQ boost at 271 Hz to get a little more definition, and I'm hearing an electric slide guitar.

The quest continues to reacquire Taylor's lost credits...

There's no slide on turd on the run, but that guitar sounds Taylorish to me as well, it has his typical bluesy, almost soaring and melodic feel. No credits on the record sleeve apart from Bill Plummer and Jagger as far as I know. I always assumed it was Taylor 'on first ear', and in this thread a possible example of "could be either Keith or Taylor". Anyway, great song.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-08-19 21:08 by DonParker.

I don't think they played anything like this song until EOMS. A strange street to go down…….

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Maindefender
I don't think they played anything like this song until EOMS. A strange street to go down…….

You Can't Catch Me has some of the same driving, hillbilly-ish rhythm, imo.

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DandelionPowderman

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Maindefender
I don't think they played anything like this song until EOMS. A strange street to go down…….

You Can't Catch Me has some of the same driving, hillbilly-ish rhythm, imo.

Not as fast but I hear it. Turd is definitely raucous...

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DandelionPowderman

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TravelinMan
Sure sounds like Mick Taylor on slide on this song, most evident at 2:20. Richards never played like that. I did an EQ boost at 271 Hz to get a little more definition, and I'm hearing an electric slide guitar.

The quest continues to reacquire Taylor's lost credits...

Which slide guitar? I only hear two open G-guitars by Keith. The main rhythm guitar and the one which comes in with the subtle licks. Those are not unusual for Keith when he plays single-string licks in open G.

Since I had nothing better to do this evening I listened close to this song for the first time in 25 years.

The second guitar coming in in open G tuning, that's is not necessarily the case. Could also be played in standard tuning using the Amin pent scale in the second position, (without a capo). If you fret your fingers precisely, it sounds exactly the same as on exile. Taylor could do that. On the other hand, the two fast tones a (open string 3) and the tone g,3th fret 4th string makes me think it's open G capo 2, but it sounds a bit artificial to me. I'm not entirely sure. Maybe Taylor said to Keith: "gimme that open tuned guitar", or Keith played it indeed, open g capo 2.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-08-20 02:24 by DonParker.

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DonParker

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DandelionPowderman

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TravelinMan
Sure sounds like Mick Taylor on slide on this song, most evident at 2:20. Richards never played like that. I did an EQ boost at 271 Hz to get a little more definition, and I'm hearing an electric slide guitar.

The quest continues to reacquire Taylor's lost credits...

Which slide guitar? I only hear two open G-guitars by Keith. The main rhythm guitar and the one which comes in with the subtle licks. Those are not unusual for Keith when he plays single-string licks in open G.

Since I had nothing better to do this evening I listened close to this song for the first time in 25 years.

The second guitar coming in in open G tuning, that's is not necessarily the case. Could also be played in standard tuning using the Amin pent scale in the second position, (without a capo). If you fret your fingers precisely, it sounds exactly the same as on exile. Taylor could do that. On the other hand, the two fast tones a (open string 3) and the tone g,3th fret 4th string makes me think it's open G capo 2, but it sounds a bit artificial to me. I'm not entirely sure. Maybe Taylor said to Keith: "gimme that open tuned guitar", or Keith played it indeed, open g capo 2.

Or maybe this isn't that complicated?

It's "stiffer" than Taylor would have played it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-08-20 11:52 by DandelionPowderman.

I'll listen again tomorrow, but on a side note: Mick Taylor influenced Keith Richards as a guitar player immensely. This album is a great example based on some of Richards' guitar tones and licks. So those who malign Taylor's contribution to this record must also give him credit for his influence on Richards. Earlier today I listened to the Sticky Fingers out takes and I am quite convinced Taylor could have played some rhythm parts on this album commonly attributed to the "studio mad scientist" Richards. Especially on basic tracks such as Ventilator Blues and Sweet Black Angel.

Taylor plays rhythm parts on Bitch, DF, I Got The Blues, Wild Horses and CYHMK on SFM, so that's correct

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DandelionPowderman

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DonParker

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DandelionPowderman

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TravelinMan
Sure sounds like Mick Taylor on slide on this song, most evident at 2:20. Richards never played like that. I did an EQ boost at 271 Hz to get a little more definition, and I'm hearing an electric slide guitar.

The quest continues to reacquire Taylor's lost credits...

Which slide guitar? I only hear two open G-guitars by Keith. The main rhythm guitar and the one which comes in with the subtle licks. Those are not unusual for Keith when he plays single-string licks in open G.

Since I had nothing better to do this evening I listened close to this song for the first time in 25 years.

The second guitar coming in in open G tuning, that's is not necessarily the case. Could also be played in standard tuning using the Amin pent scale in the second position, (without a capo). If you fret your fingers precisely, it sounds exactly the same as on exile. Taylor could do that. On the other hand, the two fast tones a (open string 3) and the tone g,3th fret 4th string makes me think it's open G capo 2, but it sounds a bit artificial to me. I'm not entirely sure. Maybe Taylor said to Keith: "gimme that open tuned guitar", or Keith played it indeed, open g capo 2.

Or maybe this isn't that complicated?

You're probably right, and it's nice to try both ways just for yourselves as a guitarist, just to figure out who plays what. That's fun and was also my motivation to write about it. I focussed on this particular line for the first time in my life and found out it probably wasn't standard tuning.. Still in standard tuning you can play something interesting, something that comes very close as well. If guitarists want to copy the original, use the open G capo 2 approach. Keith most likely, simple, very effective and beautiful, made me think it was Taylor. These guys must have influenced each other a lot...

You also thought it was Taylor in the first place?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2016-08-20 12:15 by DonParker.

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novica
it's just great !
Stones at their best...
thank God for songs like this

Why only God? Jagger co-wrote it with him.

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DandelionPowderman
Taylor plays rhythm parts on Bitch, DF, I Got The Blues, Wild Horses and CYHMK on SFM, so that's correct

I'm talking about parts on Exile that are often just assumed to be a rhythm guitar overdub by Richards. Bands back then focused on having solid basic tracks with the whole band first and foremost and Taylor wasn't the type not to attempt to contribute.

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DonParker

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DandelionPowderman

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DonParker

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DandelionPowderman

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TravelinMan
Sure sounds like Mick Taylor on slide on this song, most evident at 2:20. Richards never played like that. I did an EQ boost at 271 Hz to get a little more definition, and I'm hearing an electric slide guitar.

The quest continues to reacquire Taylor's lost credits...

Which slide guitar? I only hear two open G-guitars by Keith. The main rhythm guitar and the one which comes in with the subtle licks. Those are not unusual for Keith when he plays single-string licks in open G.

Since I had nothing better to do this evening I listened close to this song for the first time in 25 years.

The second guitar coming in in open G tuning, that's is not necessarily the case. Could also be played in standard tuning using the Amin pent scale in the second position, (without a capo). If you fret your fingers precisely, it sounds exactly the same as on exile. Taylor could do that. On the other hand, the two fast tones a (open string 3) and the tone g,3th fret 4th string makes me think it's open G capo 2, but it sounds a bit artificial to me. I'm not entirely sure. Maybe Taylor said to Keith: "gimme that open tuned guitar", or Keith played it indeed, open g capo 2.

Or maybe this isn't that complicated?

You're probably right, and it's nice to try both ways just for yourselves as a guitarist, just to figure out who plays what. That's fun and was also my motivation to write about it. I focussed on this particular line for the first time in my life and found out it probably wasn't standard tuning.. Still in standard tuning you can play something interesting, something that comes very close as well. If guitarists want to copy the original, use the open G capo 2 approach. Keith most likely, simple, very effective and beautiful, made me think it was Taylor. These guys must have influenced each other a lot...

You also thought it was Taylor in the first place?

I did indeed, before I took a closer look at it some years ago

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TravelinMan

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DandelionPowderman
Taylor plays rhythm parts on Bitch, DF, I Got The Blues, Wild Horses and CYHMK on SFM, so that's correct

I'm talking about parts on Exile that are often just assumed to be a rhythm guitar overdub by Richards. Bands back then focused on having solid basic tracks with the whole band first and foremost and Taylor wasn't the type not to attempt to contribute.

First, the little fills on TOTR are Richards' to my ears, straight open G capo 2nd pull offs on the A and D-string, with quite a bit of tape delay.

Second -I believe Taylor's 'absence' on Exile is mostly due to two reasons: 1) he never was a talented rhythm player, and he often clashed with Richards rhythm style or ideas and 2) Taylor mostly was not present at the endless overdub sessions Jagger and Richards are known for.

Good examples are Brown Sugar, and the Nicky Hopkins Exile tape that surfaced some years ago. All tracks featured original guitar work by Taylor, but on the released versions all Taylor's work was either completely erased (Brown Sugar, Rip This Joint) or mostly erased (Rocks Off).

The only times Taylor's rhythm guitar worked was when Richards either was absent, or when Richards played lead.

I think Taylor never had much influence, except form some jazzy chords that Taylor taught Keith (Let it Loose for example). I think Taylor had a much bigger influence on Jagger, as they both are much more melody oriented.

Mathijs

Good points by Mathijs. So many people consider the Mick Taylor years the glory years and Exile the peak album yet Exile probably would've come out pretty much the same if Taylor were not in the band at that point. I've always felt that Taylor's biggest contributions during the "glory years" were his wonderful improvised soloing when they played live. In the studio he could have been replaced except for a few notable tunes. They could have just brought in somebody like Wayne Perkins or Harvey Mandel to solo like they did on Black and Blue. Exile may well be the peak of the glory years but I don't feel that Taylor was that essential on it.

"Gonna find my way to heaven ..."

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TravelinMan

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DandelionPowderman
Taylor plays rhythm parts on Bitch, DF, I Got The Blues, Wild Horses and CYHMK on SFM, so that's correct

I'm talking about parts on Exile that are often just assumed to be a rhythm guitar overdub by Richards. Bands back then focused on having solid basic tracks with the whole band first and foremost and Taylor wasn't the type not to attempt to contribute.

See Mathijs's explanation above about the overdub-sessions..

"the Nicky Hopkins Exile tape that surfaced some years ago"

Say what?!

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Mathijs

He never was a talented rhythm player(Taylor)

A very talented rhythm player I would say, lots of examples out there over the years, but with Richards aboard preferring simple straight forward grooves -re exile- and I love Keith's playing for that, there's is not much to add in this chosen field.

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35love
"the Nicky Hopkins Exile tape that surfaced some years ago"

Say what?!

See here: [www.iorr.org]
Links are now expired so try this one:
[we.tl]
Link is good until August 28.


"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"

I think his rhythm guitar on Hip Shake, Can't You Hear Me Knocking, and I believe an early version of All Down the Line are great. The early Loving Cup was good too.

Some of Richards licks on Loving Cup and Torn and Frayed are definitely influenced by Taylor. His slide tone on Tumbling Dice and Casino Boogie are influenced by Taylor. Richards even said thank you to Taylor for all the turn ons, which means he influenced him musically to some extent. He was a full member of the band, and a lot of his contributions were not used as we have seen, but I don't understand why people are not giving him credit for things he obviously did: the electric bass on Just Wanna See His Face. He may not be on Turd on the Run, and what I'm hearing could be a finger slide or an open hammer on, probably due to the EQ I had set.

Slide on TD?

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DandelionPowderman
Slide on TD?

Sounds like a slide lick right at the 2:50 mark, followed by very subtle licks in the background, and then another more prominent at 3:10.
I always thought it was slide - could be just the way it's played though.

Tumbling Dice




_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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Hairball

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DandelionPowderman
Slide on TD?

Sounds like a slide lick right at the 2:50 mark, followed by very subtle licks in the background, and then another more prominent at 3:10.
I always thought it was slide - could be just the way it's played though.

Tumbling Dice

Yeah, and around 2:10 and some other places throughout. It sounds like a different take than Richards' other lead guitar.

Deltics! Thank you! Means a lot, saving it for when I am alone early this
week,
what a day I'm a mama bear who let her cub off on his own today (University)
I treasure Nicky Hopkin's piano on Exile- treasure. xxoo

I Just don't agree that Taylor was a weak rhythm guitarist. No,of course he is in a different league from Keith, who is made of rhythm. And it wasn't his 'thing'. I myself am totally from the Keithian school of thought.
Still - I ask myslef why it is that so many of the greatest renditions of Stones songs, feature the line up of Keith and Taylor. 72/73 versions of ADTL, Rambler,@#$%&,MrD, Knockin,SFM, JJF, GS - yes he played a lot of lead, but it was often rhythm based leads. And when he is literally playing chords under a Keith lead, I think he was ideal as Keith's wingman.
It might come down to personal preference, but on SFTD or @#$%& I think I prefer him over Ron Wood.

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TravelinMan

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Hairball

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DandelionPowderman
Slide on TD?

Sounds like a slide lick right at the 2:50 mark, followed by very subtle licks in the background, and then another more prominent at 3:10.
I always thought it was slide - could be just the way it's played though.

Yeah, and around 2:10 and some other places throughout. It sounds like a different take than Richards' other lead guitar.

Sure, the slide is quite easily heard bang in the center of the mix, not to be confused with the L-R finger-sliding licks.
If one use a software to isolate the frequency, it sounds like Keith to me, more reminiscent of the "wobbly-nervous" Let it Bleed vibrato than the gentler,wider Taylor vibrato.

It`s really hard to hear and find out who does what on Exile, which makes it just the more interesting, IMHO.