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mulecrowe

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Naturalust
As someone who was in the middle of that movement I can assure you that it started with bands like Uncle Tupelo around 1990 and doesn't include bands like The Byrds, The Eagles and other country rock outfits, which were clearly an influence. It's like the difference between Chuck Berry and some Stones music. Similar and influenced by, but it's own thing in the end, more diverse influences and amalgamation of styles imo.

Since it is loosely defined and includes similarities to other music it may not be as clear to some. Probably one of the reasons the genre has been somewhat assimilated into the Americana family. But I assure you when it was in it's infancy it was something new and exciting and defined a movement of it's own. As I said it was kind of a midwest American thing, regional, just like grunge was for Seattle when it could be argued that form was just a return to harder 70's rock sensibilities. Grunge was it's own thing too, imo, with broader influences that included punk for instance.

Attempts to combine punk and country had been pioneered by Nashville's Jason and the Scorchers, and in the 1980s Southern Californian cowpunk scene with bands like the Long Ryders,[2] but these styles merged fully in Uncle Tupelo's 1990 LP No Depression, which is widely credited as being the first "alt-country" album, and gave its name to the online notice board and eventually magazine that underpinned the movement.[3][10] They released three more influential albums, signing to a major label, before they broke up in 1994, with members and figures associated with them going on to form three major bands in the genre: Wilco, Son Volt and Bottle Rockets.[3] Bottle Rockets signed, along with acts like Freakwater, the Old 97's and Robbie Fulks, to the Chicago-based indie label, Bloodshot, who pioneered a version of the genre under the name insurgent country.[2][11] The bands Blue Mountain, Whiskeytown, Blood Oranges and Drive-By Truckers further developed this tradition before most began to move more in the direction of rock music in the 2000s.[12]

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kovach

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Hairball
An L.A. band from the mid '80's:

Lone Justice

"Their early recordings can be described as a fusion of country and punk rock, with rockabilly elements".

I had tickets to see them once, got cancelled for some unreported reason...then I turn on SNL the night the show was supposed to be and their on there!

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Koen
I think altcountry goes back even further with bands like CSNY, Poco, Flying Burrito Brothers, and maybe even the Eagles.

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crholmstrom

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kovach

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Hairball
An L.A. band from the mid '80's:

Lone Justice

"Their early recordings can be described as a fusion of country and punk rock, with rockabilly elements".

I had tickets to see them once, got cancelled for some unreported reason...then I turn on SNL the night the show was supposed to be and their on there!

They opened a tour for Tom Petty @ 1 point. Quite good.

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mulecrowe
Attempts to combine punk and country had been pioneered by Nashville's Jason and the Scorchers, and in the 1980s Southern Californian cowpunk scene with bands like the Long Ryders

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Naturalust
As someone who was in the middle of that movement I can assure you that it started with bands like Uncle Tupelo around 1990 and doesn't include bands like The Byrds, The Eagles and other country rock outfits, which were clearly an influence. It's like the difference between Chuck Berry and some Stones music. Similar and influenced by, but it's own thing in the end, more diverse influences and amalgamation of styles imo.

Since it is loosely defined and includes similarities to other music it may not be as clear to some. Probably one of the reasons the genre has been somewhat assimilated into the Americana family. But I assure you when it was in it's infancy it was something new and exciting and defined a movement of it's own. As I said it was kind of a midwest American thing, regional, just like grunge was for Seattle when it could be argued that form was just a return to harder 70's rock sensibilities. Grunge was it's own thing too, imo, with broader influences that included punk for instance.

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TeaAtThree

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Naturalust
As someone who was in the middle of that movement I can assure you that it started with bands like Uncle Tupelo around 1990 and doesn't include bands like The Byrds, The Eagles and other country rock outfits, which were clearly an influence. It's like the difference between Chuck Berry and some Stones music. Similar and influenced by, but it's own thing in the end, more diverse influences and amalgamation of styles imo.

Since it is loosely defined and includes similarities to other music it may not be as clear to some. Probably one of the reasons the genre has been somewhat assimilated into the Americana family. But I assure you when it was in it's infancy it was something new and exciting and defined a movement of it's own. As I said it was kind of a midwest American thing, regional, just like grunge was for Seattle when it could be argued that form was just a return to harder 70's rock sensibilities. Grunge was it's own thing too, imo, with broader influences that included punk for instance.

Naturalust,
Sweetheart of the Rodeo is considered to be something like the godfather of alt-country. It's the only Byrds record with Gram Parsons, and many consider it the precursor. Link that to the Flying Burrito Brothers and on ya go....

T@3

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Naturalust

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kovach

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mulecrowe
At one time,I was a
huge fan of the alt
-country movement of
the 90s.Early Wilco,
Bottlerockets,Jayhawks
and so on.
Never seemed to catch
on.
Any thoughts?

It's alive and well on Outlaw Country Sirius XM Channel 60!

Outlaw Country plays alt. country bands? I would have thought that more of a Willie, Waylon, Hank Jr, Johnny Cash, Steve Earl kind of thing. I guess they probably just kind of merged alt country bands in with those traditional guys but in my opinion that's a bit of a mockery of the genre. Different things all together. I like some Outlaw Country but If I was wanting to listen to alt country and had a bunch of trad. Outlaw Country come on I think I would be disappointed. Do they play some Stones on there too?

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Naturalust
Outlaw Country plays alt. country bands? I would have thought that more of a Willie, Waylon, Hank Jr, Johnny Cash, Steve Earl kind of thing. I guess they probably just kind of merged alt country bands in with those traditional guys but in my opinion that's a bit of a mockery of the genre.

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Hairball

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Naturalust
Outlaw Country plays alt. country bands? I would have thought that more of a Willie, Waylon, Hank Jr, Johnny Cash, Steve Earl kind of thing. I guess they probably just kind of merged alt country bands in with those traditional guys but in my opinion that's a bit of a mockery of the genre.

If you're referring to the mockery of "Willie, Waylon, Hank Jr, Johnny Cash, Steve Earl kind of thing" by mixing in alt. country bands I would agree, but I assume you're referring it the other way around?

Nothing against 'alt country' but they don't hold a candle to the real deal imo, and goes to show that the 'alt country' genre isn't very well defined and never really established itself as a proper genre unto itself.

edit - For what it's worth, Hank Jr. is a mockery unto himself- a watered down/contrived version of the greats. He probably shouldn't be included in any serious discussion regarding Outlaw country, or great country musicians in general imo.

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Naturalust

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Hairball

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Naturalust
Outlaw Country plays alt. country bands? I would have thought that more of a Willie, Waylon, Hank Jr, Johnny Cash, Steve Earl kind of thing. I guess they probably just kind of merged alt country bands in with those traditional guys but in my opinion that's a bit of a mockery of the genre.

If you're referring to the mockery of "Willie, Waylon, Hank Jr, Johnny Cash, Steve Earl kind of thing" by mixing in alt. country bands I would agree, but I assume you're referring it the other way around?

Nothing against 'alt country' but they don't hold a candle to the real deal imo, and goes to show that the 'alt country' genre isn't very well defined and never really established itself as a proper genre unto itself.

edit - For what it's worth, Hank Jr. is a mockery unto himself- a watered down/contrived version of the greats. He probably shouldn't be included in any serious discussion regarding Outlaw country, or great country musicians in general imo. Hank III on the other hand is pretty much the real deal, and has followed in the footsteps of his Grandfather with respect and dignity.

Hmmm. I guess since I consider alt-country it's own thing I don't look at it in those terms. The Outlaw country guys are great at what they do but the alt-country guys are coming from a completely different space. Not as limited to the "country" part. More diverse in both influence and output.

My mockery wasn't referring to the bands by such a comparison, just that mixing the Outlaw country and alt-country together it was a mockery of the genre(s). Perhaps we are saying the same thing, both genres were mocked. It's a homogenization that can be easily separated in most cases. They are both their own "real deals".

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Hairball

Yeah I suppose so - both being 'their own real deals' -just a matter of opinion which genre is more real. And with that I think it's a mockery (maybe not the best term) to include alt. country on playlists dedicated to 'Outlaw Country', being that it's kind of spread all over the place - or 'more diverse' as you put it. In that sense I suppose we disagree, but in the sense that they should be separated - definitely agreed.
Since Uncle Tupelo, Wilco, et al. incorporates rock and country, I'd be more inclined to describe it as a sub-genre of Alternative Rock.

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Naturalust

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Hairball

Yeah I suppose so - both being 'their own real deals' -just a matter of opinion which genre is more real. And with that I think it's a mockery (maybe not the best term) to include alt. country on playlists dedicated to 'Outlaw Country', being that it's kind of spread all over the place - or 'more diverse' as you put it. In that sense I suppose we disagree, but in the sense that they should be separated - definitely agreed.
Since Uncle Tupelo, Wilco, et al. incorporates rock and country, I'd be more inclined to describe it as a sub-genre of Alternative Rock.

Yes perhaps you are right about the Alt-Rock description. These genre descriptions can get a bit tricky and in so many cases the lines of delineation are foggy or almost invisible. But at the time when alt-country was born the rock world was more defined by bands like Nirvana, Alanis Morrisette, the Chili Peppers, Pearl Jam , et al and just recovering from the hair bands so I can see where the "country" part came in actually. More acoustic song based material, filled out by bands with country instruments like pedal steel and mandolin but still able to rock and even punk out at times. I love being confused by music. Screw genres if the songs good the songs good.

Anyway enjoy this alt-country tune.

[www.youtube.com]

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Hairball

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Naturalust
Outlaw Country plays alt. country bands? I would have thought that more of a Willie, Waylon, Hank Jr, Johnny Cash, Steve Earl kind of thing. I guess they probably just kind of merged alt country bands in with those traditional guys but in my opinion that's a bit of a mockery of the genre.

If you're referring to the mockery of "Willie, Waylon, Hank Jr, Johnny Cash, Steve Earl kind of thing" by mixing in alt. country bands I would agree, but I assume you're referring it the other way around?

Nothing against 'alt country' but they don't hold a candle to the real deal imo, and goes to show that the 'alt country' genre isn't very well defined and never really established itself as a proper genre unto itself.


edit - For what it's worth, Hank Jr. is a mockery unto himself- a watered down/contrived version of the greats. He probably shouldn't be included in any serious discussion regarding Outlaw country, or great country musicians in general imo. Hank III on the other hand is pretty much the real deal, and has followed in the footsteps of his Grandfather with respect and dignity.

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kovach

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Hairball

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Naturalust
Outlaw Country plays alt. country bands? I would have thought that more of a Willie, Waylon, Hank Jr, Johnny Cash, Steve Earl kind of thing. I guess they probably just kind of merged alt country bands in with those traditional guys but in my opinion that's a bit of a mockery of the genre.

If you're referring to the mockery of "Willie, Waylon, Hank Jr, Johnny Cash, Steve Earl kind of thing" by mixing in alt. country bands I would agree, but I assume you're referring it the other way around?

Nothing against 'alt country' but they don't hold a candle to the real deal imo, and goes to show that the 'alt country' genre isn't very well defined and never really established itself as a proper genre unto itself.


edit - For what it's worth, Hank Jr. is a mockery unto himself- a watered down/contrived version of the greats. He probably shouldn't be included in any serious discussion regarding Outlaw country, or great country musicians in general imo. Hank III on the other hand is pretty much the real deal, and has followed in the footsteps of his Grandfather with respect and dignity.

Hank Williams Jr. and Friends is often cited as one of the first and greatest country rock albums of all time.

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Hairball

Great tune, but not sure if that really exemplifies the 'alt country' you refer to that separates it from other 'country rock' tunes. Sounds really close to the Flying Burrito Brothers without much 'alt' added to it. I was gonna ask for another example - something with some balls maybe? Then I see RnT posted the great Green on Red tune which definitely has a 'alt country' vibe going on, but that's from '85 - well before Uncle Tupelo, et al. Let the confusion continue...