So Sad.

Left Almeria, Spain ,this morning and more security checks than usual, understandably.

Got to Gatwick airport and North terminal area shutdown as a serious security incident happened.

I arrived South terminal at same time but didn't really affect me at all.

Such a dangerous world at the moment.

I felt very sad when I heard the news yesterday evening. My thoughts are with the people in Paris.

This is all just so sad. My heart aches for the victims and their families.

We, anyone, can offer their personal view, opinions and beliefs but the facts are that ISIS, ISIL or whateverthefucktheyorthenewscallthemsevles, DON'T CARE.

It is because of personal view, opinions and beliefs that there are problems, especially now with ISIS etc. Christianity being one of them - a big one.

Talk blue in the face about peace and non-violence, THEY don't care. THEY are so deeply mired in THEIR way of thinking and, unfortunately, believing. Sounds familiar. We Are Right.

THEY believe that their 'god' is whatever. Christians and whoever else believe their 'god' is whatever. It's a giant crutch, all with the same results: historically people get killed, persecuted etc.

All for "believing".

Reality isn't of religious concern when you're killing. It's always boiled down to who's better. And when you have weapons, you win.

Not everyone believes. Not everyone is a believer. Yet they too are affected. And effected.

In America believers fight and argue over inane beliefs such as religious scribblings on a rock at a court house; religious rants are printed on money; poor people are treated as tax burdens. Nothing about that is "christian". A lot of Americans call themselves "christians". It's convenient for a mind set. Religious beliefs. It's all garbage. Civility is lost on a lot of people because of it. When a terrorist attack happens, civility is questioned by those affected, not by those of the doing.

It's one giant horrendous battle of egos. It has been and will always be.

How bombing and killing people make their belief better than others is beyond me. Except for being believers. There is no convincing anyone of anything with it except the obvious: bad people. The battle of who's better: We Are Right.

The people of Paris, one of the greatest cities on the planet, just living their lives, who don't care about We Are Right... offending only those that choose to be offended.


There must be something behind the motivation to go to Paris and not elsewhere.

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kovach

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The Mez
Bush / Cheney's fault. Leave the Arabs alone. Stop dropping bombs. Stop the hate! It's our own fault. Stop the war mongering!!

Newflash...they've been out of power for 7 years.

Yes, their song is over but the malady lingers on. AS Eddie Byword pointed out, and as is evident to anyone with a brain, Isis is the creation of the Bush/Cheney policies, their fighters went to school at Guantanamo and their arms were left there by the US. Which is not to say that Obama has done a great job addressing them. But George Bush is the George Washington of Isis.

And Mez, you are 100% wrong.What is needed, as the French president said, is ruthlessness in the destruction of Isis. This event may bring that about, hopefully.

Diane Feinstein is even spewing war rhetoric omg. We just killed another ISIS leader in Libya today & it just created 100 more ISIS soldiers. Al Qaeda recruits increased hundredfold when we killed Osama Bin Laden!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015-11-14 21:57 by The Mez.

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The Mez
Diane Feinstein is even spewing war rhetoric omg. We just killed another ISIS leader in Libya today & it just created 100 more ISIS soldiers. Al Qaeda recruits increased hundredfold when we killed Osama Bin Laden!

you have it 100% backwards. Their success is how they recruit. We need to destroy their leaders, we need to be ruthless in killing the head(s) and removing their base of operations. The reason you are right about it's being Bush's fault is that he gave them land. That needs to be removed and now it will.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-11-14 22:17 by Rokyfan.

I wanna tell you that I'm very moved by the solidarity shown through tv reports in New-York, London, in Roma, in Berlin and others...
and also I'd like to express my sympathy and compassion for the people in Beirut two days ago and the people who died in the crash of the Russian plane in Egypt.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-11-14 22:36 by jpasc95.

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Rokyfan
And Mez, you are 100% wrong.What is needed, as the French president said, is ruthlessness in the destruction of Isis. This event may bring that about, hopefully.

Can't kill an ideology with guns. We already tried ruthless destruction, remember Shock and Awe? Didn't work. We've got to get smart about this and some ruthless understanding of what creates and motivates these terrorists and a sane effort to change the fundamental ways in which the Western world operates in the Middle East is probably a good start.

Do some research about who really benefits in a war and you will find it is the military industrial complex and the companies that are contracted to rebuild the infrastructure after we destroy it all. We profit from the destruction and we profit from the rebuilding of that very destruction. The innocent citizens of the country we are trying to help are rarely if ever benefactors of the effort. Complete madness, no wonder these people become terrorists.

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Rokyfan

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The Mez
Diane Feinstein is even spewing war rhetoric omg. We just killed another ISIS leader in Libya today & it just created 100 more ISIS soldiers. Al Qaeda recruits increased hundredfold when we killed Osama Bin Laden!

you have it 100% backwards. Their success is how they recruit. We need to destroy their leaders, we need to be ruthless in killing the head(s) and removing their base of operations. The reason you are right about it's being Bush's fault is that he gave them land. That needs to be removed and now it will.

With all due respect Roky, killing the leaders may just slow them down and create many new, even more angry and righteous leaders in their place. The success of their recruitment seems to be made easier by such an approach. It's such a paradox because it seems like such a logical approach to the problem. But looking at the realities and studying the recent history it seems to be backfiring. That is the only real clear thing, that we know what doesn't work or at least we should by now. Like I said, I suspect the solution must involve a fundamental change of policy, because this conflict seems fundamentally different than past historical ones where "winning" a war produced clear direction and an end to violence for both sides.

Regarding the policy discussion.

If our goal is to stop innocent people from dying, there are many better ways to do that than by bombing or attacking a bunch of (mostly innocent) civilians in a middle eastern country in order to maybe take out a few leaders.

Every hour more children starve to death in Africa than died last night in Paris.

Many, many more people die each year due to heroin use in Europe + USA than from terrorist attacks.

Many more people die from drunk driving in just one year in the US than have died from terrorist attacks over the past 20 years.

Many more innocent children die of starvation in Africa than die from all the terrorist attacks in the entire world.

We feel emotional about such attacks because "it could be us", but we should realize that the world is full of innocent people dying every day, just because the media promotes this story should not mean that the life of someone's child who was killed by a drunk driver, or friend who OD'd, or an innocent child in Africa who died of starvation (one does every 10 seconds) matters less.

If you think it's wrong for innocent people to die, there are lots of places you can personally make a difference.



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 2015-11-14 23:05 by Turner68.

One of the sad truths to take away from this incident is that venue safety has not improved since the Alrosa Villa shooting that killed Dimebag Darrell. People are just as exposed as ever. But it's not just shootings to prep for. We've had far too many tragedies at this point.

-The Who's disaster at Cincinnati
-9 people trampled to death at Pearl Jam's set at the 2000 Roskilde Festival
-The Station nightclub fire (Great White) and the idiots that did the same thing in Romania a week ago
-The insane @#$%& who shot up the San Jose nightclub Chris Brown was performing at (in violation of his parole, but he still got early release from it not too long afterwards)

Something has to be done. If not now, when?

I campe to Paris for U2.Yesterday I have been in the stadium.The explosions sounded like a Böller in football stadium but without smoke.i have a feeling like on Christmas Eve.Nobody is outside only the police.It's strange here.But the live must go on.

I hope this debacle actually will unite Europe, the US, and Russia to destroy ISIS and fix Syria.

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Mirko
I campe to Paris for U2.Yesterday I have been in the stadium.The explosions sounded like a Böller in football stadium but without smoke.i have a feeling like on Christmas Eve.Nobody is outside only the police.It's strange here.But the live must go on.

Glad you're okay, Mirko.

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Naturalust

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Rokyfan

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The Mez
Diane Feinstein is even spewing war rhetoric omg. We just killed another ISIS leader in Libya today & it just created 100 more ISIS soldiers. Al Qaeda recruits increased hundredfold when we killed Osama Bin Laden!

you have it 100% backwards. Their success is how they recruit. We need to destroy their leaders, we need to be ruthless in killing the head(s) and removing their base of operations. The reason you are right about it's being Bush's fault is that he gave them land. That needs to be removed and now it will.

With all due respect Roky, killing the leaders may just slow them down and create many new, even more angry and righteous leaders in their place. The success of their recruitment seems to be made easier by such an approach. It's such a paradox because it seems like such a logical approach to the problem. But looking at the realities and studying the recent history it seems to be backfiring. That is the only real clear thing, that we know what doesn't work or at least we should by now. Like I said, I suspect the solution must involve a fundamental change of policy, because this conflict seems fundamentally different than past historical ones where "winning" a war produced clear direction and an end to violence for both sides.

This is a new group that arose from the ashes of US policy and has never been taken seriously, has never been the effort of a serious effort against it by the west (now it will). So, I dont know why ýou say that action against them creates more. That is just made up. We have had minimal if any success against Isis. We have killed a few. They have been enormously successful and that is what they recruit with. The thing that Bush/Cheney did was give them land. That is what needs to be removed. It is not a matter of destroying an ideology; it is the land base that allows them to do what they do.

Fortunately M. Hollande seems to understand: "la France sera impitoyable" (France will be unmercyful)

This represents, as you say, a fundamental change in policy, one that is needed. And I am no right-winger, I blame almost the whole thing on Bush/Cheney and their lying warmongering driven by oil profits and macho revenge. But that doesn't change what is needed to stop this group.

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Naturalust

Can't kill an ideology with guns. We already tried ruthless destruction, remember Shock and Awe? Didn't work. We've got to get smart about this and some ruthless understanding of what creates and motivates these terrorists and a sane effort to change the fundamental ways in which the Western world operates in the Middle East is probably a good start.

Do some research about who really benefits in a war and you will find it is the military industrial complex and the companies that are contracted to rebuild the infrastructure after we destroy it all. We profit from the destruction and we profit from the rebuilding of that very destruction. The innocent citizens of the country we are trying to help are rarely if ever benefactors of the effort. Complete madness, no wonder these people become terrorists.

Very true of course. Many extremists are born and raised in Western countries, are poorly educated and have no future in Western society. An important task for Imams and decent education over here to prevent worse in the future.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-11-14 23:49 by DancelittleSister.

You can't kill an idea with weapons but you can kill the people that believe in that idea.

It is hunting time not gardening time.

Nate

Sadly, I think Turner68 comes closest to the truth of the matter. To a large degree, terrorism is the price we pay for the times we live in and death happens everyday all over the world for equally senseless reasons.This is not to say nothing should be done to combat terrorism, but it's never going to be completely irradicated no matter what policy individual nations take. Terrorists are indoctrinated with hate; education and opportunity for all has to be part of the answer.

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Rokyfan

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Naturalust

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Rokyfan

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The Mez
Diane Feinstein is even spewing war rhetoric omg. We just killed another ISIS leader in Libya today & it just created 100 more ISIS soldiers. Al Qaeda recruits increased hundredfold when we killed Osama Bin Laden!

you have it 100% backwards. Their success is how they recruit. We need to destroy their leaders, we need to be ruthless in killing the head(s) and removing their base of operations. The reason you are right about it's being Bush's fault is that he gave them land. That needs to be removed and now it will.

With all due respect Roky, killing the leaders may just slow them down and create many new, even more angry and righteous leaders in their place. The success of their recruitment seems to be made easier by such an approach. It's such a paradox because it seems like such a logical approach to the problem. But looking at the realities and studying the recent history it seems to be backfiring. That is the only real clear thing, that we know what doesn't work or at least we should by now. Like I said, I suspect the solution must involve a fundamental change of policy, because this conflict seems fundamentally different than past historical ones where "winning" a war produced clear direction and an end to violence for both sides.

This is a new group that arose from the ashes of US policy and has never been taken seriously, has never been the effort of a serious effort against it by the west (now it will). So, I dont know why ýou say that action against them creates more. That is just made up. We have had minimal if any success against Isis. We have killed a few. They have been enormously successful and that is what they recruit with. The thing that Bush/Cheney did was give them land. That is what needs to be removed. It is not a matter of destroying an ideology; it is the land base that allows them to do what they do.

Fortunately M. Hollande seems to understand: "la France sera impitoyable" (France will be unmercyful)

This represents, as you say, a fundamental change in policy, one that is needed. And I am no right-winger, I blame almost the whole thing on Bush/Cheney and their lying warmongering driven by oil profits and macho revenge. But that doesn't change what is needed to stop this group.

more people die in the state of texas in one year from drunk driving than died last night from the attacks in france.

it's just worth keeping things in perspective.
i don't mean to diminish anyone's feelings; i'm just saying that if we want to avoid the deaths of innocent people there are lots of ways we can.

I am too saddened with words, just say this is the real world now we live in, god bless the people of France.

My thoughts and prayers go out to the people of Paris, this is a despicable act. I hope all our IORRians are ok, please take care and stay safe.

Lose your dreams and you will lose your mind...

Mirko sorry you are unable to see U2....humans are very emotional and those without power seek power by use of force.. Arm sales, Grenades, and AK47 gun supply needs to be detected and systematically destroyed for the good of the world. Fireworks should not be allowed in closed shows. just my opinions.

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Rokyfan

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kovach

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The Mez
Bush / Cheney's fault. Leave the Arabs alone. Stop dropping bombs. Stop the hate! It's our own fault. Stop the war mongering!!

Newflash...they've been out of power for 7 years.

Yes, their song is over but the malady lingers on. AS Eddie Byword pointed out, and as is evident to anyone with a brain, Isis is the creation of the Bush/Cheney policies, their fighters went to school at Guantanamo and their arms were left there by the US. Which is not to say that Obama has done a great job addressing them. But George Bush is the George Washington of Isis.

And Mez, you are 100% wrong.What is needed, as the French president said, is ruthlessness in the destruction of Isis. This event may bring that about, hopefully.

What a disgusting disgrace blaming this on George Bush. Go away! Maybe your guy No-bama will "draw another red line"!!!!!

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whitem8
I hope this debacle actually will unite Europe, the US, and Russia to destroy ISIS and fix Syria.

+1

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Naturalust

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Rokyfan
And Mez, you are 100% wrong.What is needed, as the French president said, is ruthlessness in the destruction of Isis. This event may bring that about, hopefully.

Can't kill an ideology with guns. We already tried ruthless destruction, remember Shock and Awe? Didn't work. We've got to get smart about this and some ruthless understanding of what creates and motivates these terrorists and a sane effort to change the fundamental ways in which the Western world operates in the Middle East is probably a good start.

Do some research about who really benefits in a war and you will find it is the military industrial complex and the companies that are contracted to rebuild the infrastructure after we destroy it all. We profit from the destruction and we profit from the rebuilding of that very destruction. The innocent citizens of the country we are trying to help are rarely if ever benefactors of the effort. Complete madness, no wonder these people become terrorists.

well argued naturalust

I am SICK and freekin TIRED of all this POLITICALLY CORRECT talk...

No matter your POLITICS or RELIGION...THE WESTERN WORLD IS UNITED, you are either with US or THEM...they (IS/ISIS/ISIL) need to, and will be, D E S T R O Y E D ! ! !

...and all you "we're just as bad a them" PIECES OF [SORRY BV]...go ahead and make friends with those SAVAGES, I'm sure they'd welcome you with open arms...UNBELIEVABLE!

LONG LIVE FREEDOM



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 2015-11-15 01:32 by shadooby.