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Re: OT: Paris terror attacks
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: November 15, 2015 03:29

Not sure if this is has already been posted, but it is must watch viewing if you have 90 minutes to spare and would like a better understanding of what is at play here....and thanks Naturalust for bringing it to my attention.

[www.youtube.com]




Re: OT: Paris terror attacks
Posted by: Stoneage ()
Date: November 15, 2015 03:53

Quote
Turner68
Quote
Stoneage
Quote
Turner68
Quote
Stoneage
Quote
The Mez
Islamophobia is on the rise. Stop the hate!

Over 130 innocent civilians killed by islamic terrorists and you're afraid of islamophobia? Get your priorities right. There is every reason in the world to be afraid of islamist murderers!
And there are even just causes to be islamophobic. It's a religion incompatible with Occident values and modern civilisation.

More innocent civilians die every hour of every day of starvation in Africa. Priorities indeed.

That has nothing to do with terrorism. There is no causality there whatsoever. A meaningless comparison.

It's meaningful because if you are someone who wants to stop innocent people from dying, it's much more effective to help fight drunk driving, or heroin addiction, or even starvation in Africa than it is ISIS. That's assuming you actually want to do something to help rather than just talk.

You can't help everyone, everywhere, everytime. The argument that because people are starving in Africa and people are driving drunk you shouldn't combat terrorism isn't a valid one. To put it mildly....

Re: OT: Paris terror attacks
Posted by: swiss ()
Date: November 15, 2015 03:55

Now, beginning to gather in San Francisco...

Re: OT: Paris terror attacks
Posted by: Turner68 ()
Date: November 15, 2015 04:29

Quote
Stoneage
Quote
Turner68
Quote
Stoneage
Quote
Turner68
Quote
Stoneage
Quote
The Mez
Islamophobia is on the rise. Stop the hate!

Over 130 innocent civilians killed by islamic terrorists and you're afraid of islamophobia? Get your priorities right. There is every reason in the world to be afraid of islamist murderers!
And there are even just causes to be islamophobic. It's a religion incompatible with Occident values and modern civilisation.

More innocent civilians die every hour of every day of starvation in Africa. Priorities indeed.

That has nothing to do with terrorism. There is no causality there whatsoever. A meaningless comparison.

It's meaningful because if you are someone who wants to stop innocent people from dying, it's much more effective to help fight drunk driving, or heroin addiction, or even starvation in Africa than it is ISIS. That's assuming you actually want to do something to help rather than just talk.

You can't help everyone, everywhere, everytime. The argument that because people are starving in Africa and people are driving drunk you shouldn't combat terrorism isn't a valid one. To put it mildly....

Agreed. Because we can't help everyone everywhere it is worth asking where we can most effectively help.

Re: OT: Paris terror attacks
Posted by: Stoneage ()
Date: November 15, 2015 04:50

Quote
Turner68
Quote
Stoneage
Quote
Turner68
Quote
Stoneage
Quote
Turner68
Quote
Stoneage
Quote
The Mez
Islamophobia is on the rise. Stop the hate!

Over 130 innocent civilians killed by islamic terrorists and you're afraid of islamophobia? Get your priorities right. There is every reason in the world to be afraid of islamist murderers!
And there are even just causes to be islamophobic. It's a religion incompatible with Occident values and modern civilisation.

More innocent civilians die every hour of every day of starvation in Africa. Priorities indeed.

That has nothing to do with terrorism. There is no causality there whatsoever. A meaningless comparison.

It's meaningful because if you are someone who wants to stop innocent people from dying, it's much more effective to help fight drunk driving, or heroin addiction, or even starvation in Africa than it is ISIS. That's assuming you actually want to do something to help rather than just talk.

You can't help everyone, everywhere, everytime. The argument that because people are starving in Africa and people are driving drunk you shouldn't combat terrorism isn't a valid one. To put it mildly....

Agreed. Because we can't help everyone everywhere it is worth asking where we can most effectively help.

But this isn't about helping other nations. It's about protecting the citizens of France (and Europe). And that is the first priority for every state. If you want to stop world starvation I'm fine with that. But that has nothing to do with this. If you don't understand such simple causality I'm afraid I can't help you here.

Re: OT: Paris terror attacks
Posted by: Naturalust ()
Date: November 15, 2015 05:25

Quote
Stoneage
But this isn't about helping other nations. It's about protecting the citizens of France (and Europe). And that is the first priority for every state. If you want to stop world starvation I'm fine with that. But that has nothing to do with this. If you don't understand such simple causality I'm afraid I can't help you here.

If this isn't about helping other nations how come every Western nation is offering to help France? Just messing with you Stoneage you know exactly what point Turner is making and you are obviously just messing with him too. You could have just said I prefer to stay on the topic of the terrorist attacks and terrorism here which is valid because if we broaden it to include all the pain suffering and death in this world we could go on for a long time and Bjornulf would shut us down pretty quickly.

I have a question about the attacks, is there any evidence that the terrorists were targeting the President of France at the soccer match?

Re: OT: Paris terror attacks
Posted by: swimtothemoon ()
Date: November 15, 2015 07:25

Isis should be dealt with as a coalition of nations. To
lay blame is not productive but the task of eliminating
Isis and the like needs to be a global priority.

Re: OT: Paris terror attacks
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: November 15, 2015 08:02





ROCKMAN

Re: OT: Paris terror attacks
Posted by: jpasc95 ()
Date: November 15, 2015 09:15

Quote
Naturalust
Quote
Stoneage
But this isn't about helping other nations. It's about protecting the citizens of France (and Europe). And that is the first priority for every state. If you want to stop world starvation I'm fine with that. But that has nothing to do with this. If you don't understand such simple causality I'm afraid I can't help you here.

If this isn't about helping other nations how come every Western nation is offering to help France? Just messing with you Stoneage you know exactly what point Turner is making and you are obviously just messing with him too. You could have just said I prefer to stay on the topic of the terrorist attacks and terrorism here which is valid because if we broaden it to include all the pain suffering and death in this world we could go on for a long time and Bjornulf would shut us down pretty quickly.

I have a question about the attacks, is there any evidence that the terrorists were targeting the President of France at the soccer match?
for the moment, no evidence at all.
The investigation has just started, some,people have been arrested
No journalist here in France has evokated an attempt to kill Hollande.

Re: OT: Paris terror attacks
Posted by: novica ()
Date: November 15, 2015 09:44

La Marseillaise
..."
Tremblez, tyrans et vous perfides
L'opprobre de tous les partis,
Tremblez ! vos projets parricides
Vont enfin recevoir leurs prix !
Tout est soldat pour vous combattre,
S'ils tombent, nos jeunes héros,
La terre en produit de nouveaux,
Contre vous tout prêts à se battre !..."

on english
..."
The shame of all parties,
Tremble! Your parricidal schemes
Will finally receive their reward!
Everyone is a soldier to combat you
If they fall, our young heroes,
The earth will produce new ones,
Ready to fight against you!..."


Re: OT: Paris terror attacks
Posted by: Naturalust ()
Date: November 15, 2015 09:50

Quote
swimtothemoon
Isis should be dealt with as a coalition of nations. To
lay blame is not productive but the task of eliminating
Isis and the like needs to be a global priority.

A bit of real clarity from our President Obama about the issue. After admitting ISIL is a direct outgrowth of Al Qaeda in Iraq and a unforeseen consequence of our invasion of Iraq he says:

"We've got a 60 Country coalition...will push ISIL out of Iraq....But what we have to stay worried about is even if ISIL is defeated, the underlying problem of disaffected Sunnis around the world, particularly in some of these areas including Libya and Yemen..Where a young man growing up, has no education and has no prospects for the future is looking around and the one way he can get validation, power and respect is if he's a fighter. And this looks like the toughest gang around, so let me affiliate with them.

And now you're giving me a religious rationale for doing this. That's a problem we're going to have generally and we can't keep thinking about counter terrorism and security as entirely separate from diplomacy, development and education. All these things that are considered soft but in fact are vital to our national security. And we do not fund those."

Wow, pretty smart was of looking at this problem. I'd say it's high time we started investing in these "soft" options if we want real long term solutions to the problem of terrorism! It's obviously not all about ruthless pursuit and destruction of the barbarians.

Re: OT: Paris terror attacks
Posted by: dcba ()
Date: November 15, 2015 10:09

Quote
Rokyfan
George Bush created Isis, that is an indisputable fact. He gave them their land, he trained their fighters in Guantanamo and he gave them their weapons (the puppet Iraq gov't we armed and which fled, leaving all the arms to Isis).

No Isis is a creation of Saudi Arabia and Qatar to be used against their nemesis Bachar Al Assad.
Nemesis because he's shi'ite (they're sunni) nemesis because he rules a secular state (SA and Qatar are fascist theocraties). Nemesis because Syria is an ally of Iran, the deadly enemy of Saudi Arabia.

So Bachar Al Assad had to be removed and the creation of Isis was the weapon for that task. Pour in Western cynical idiots (Obama Hollande Cameron) who didn't see the danger Isis was and voila! you have a disaster...

The only guy who saw things as they are is PUTIN. I know this isn't what you'll see on CNN but that's the plain truth.

And ask yourself why the Western coallition bombed Isis for 18 months to no avail while Putin's army is defeating this scum in just a few weeks. Allepo (one of Syria's main cities) is about to be freed from Isis and you can thank Putin for that not the Western coallition.

Re: OT: Paris terror attacks
Posted by: novica ()
Date: November 15, 2015 10:29

@dcba,
you're 100 % right !


Re: OT: Paris terror attacks
Posted by: Turner68 ()
Date: November 15, 2015 10:31

Quote
dcba
Quote
Rokyfan
George Bush created Isis, that is an indisputable fact. He gave them their land, he trained their fighters in Guantanamo and he gave them their weapons (the puppet Iraq gov't we armed and which fled, leaving all the arms to Isis).

No Isis is a creation of Saudi Arabia and Qatar to be used against their nemesis Bachar Al Assad.
Nemesis because he's shi'ite (they're sunni) nemesis because he rules a secular state (SA and Qatar are fascist theocraties). Nemesis because Syria is an ally of Iran, the deadly enemy of Saudi Arabia.

So Bachar Al Assad had to be removed and the creation of Isis was the weapon for that task. Pour in Western cynical idiots (Obama Hollande Cameron) who didn't see the danger Isis was and voila! you have a disaster...

The only guy who saw things as they are is PUTIN. I know this isn't what you'll see on CNN but that's the plain truth.

And ask yourself why the Western coallition bombed Isis for 18 months to no avail while Putin's army is defeating this scum in just a few weeks. Allepo (one of Syria's main cities) is about to be freed from Isis and you can thank Putin for that not the Western coallition.

I agree that we (the western countries) have no clue what we are doing, we are basically a bull in a china shop, breaking everything.

Re: OT: Paris terror attacks
Posted by: stonesrule ()
Date: November 15, 2015 11:07

With Thanks Rockman...

Re: OT: Paris terror attacks
Posted by: Eleanor Rigby ()
Date: November 15, 2015 12:30

Thinking of all parisians...
Gutless, weak act...wow its tough using a machine gun on an unsuspecting crowd of innocent people!!!
Gutless, weak people who did this and also the people who think its justified!!!!
Disgusted.

Re: OT: Paris terror attacks
Posted by: Redhotcarpet ()
Date: November 15, 2015 12:43

Quote
dcba
Quote
Rokyfan
George Bush created Isis, that is an indisputable fact. He gave them their land, he trained their fighters in Guantanamo and he gave them their weapons (the puppet Iraq gov't we armed and which fled, leaving all the arms to Isis).

No Isis is a creation of Saudi Arabia and Qatar to be used against their nemesis Bachar Al Assad.
Nemesis because he's shi'ite (they're sunni) nemesis because he rules a secular state (SA and Qatar are fascist theocraties). Nemesis because Syria is an ally of Iran, the deadly enemy of Saudi Arabia.

So Bachar Al Assad had to be removed and the creation of Isis was the weapon for that task. Pour in Western cynical idiots (Obama Hollande Cameron) who didn't see the danger Isis was and voila! you have a disaster...

The only guy who saw things as they are is PUTIN. I know this isn't what you'll see on CNN but that's the plain truth.

And ask yourself why the Western coallition bombed Isis for 18 months to no avail while Putin's army is defeating this scum in just a few weeks. Allepo (one of Syria's main cities) is about to be freed from Isis and you can thank Putin for that not the Western coallition.

Thank you. Without supporting Putin (never ever would) I agree with your analysis. One more thing: Norway criminalized collaboration/connections with terrorists and it actually worked (this was not because of lone wolves like Breivik). At least for now. And sometimes fences/walls do the job (like it or not - these are actual facts).

Without getting into politics let me say Im truly worried about Sweden. Gothenburg leads the ISIS recruit league in Europe and there are very disturbing reports of IS-members inside Sweden. Again, not being political or trying to provoke anybody or start a debate - these are facts.

Re: OT: Paris terror attacks
Posted by: Redhotcarpet ()
Date: November 15, 2015 12:43

Quote
swiss
Now, beginning to gather in San Francisco...
thumbs up

Re: OT: Paris terror attacks
Posted by: desertblues68 ()
Date: November 15, 2015 13:06

I know it is not much and it will not bring world pace, but I will be wearing my rock t shirts next week.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-11-15 13:19 by desertblues68.

Re: OT: Paris terror attacks
Posted by: maremma ()
Date: November 15, 2015 13:09

Horror in Paris
About 130 Killed and 350 injured (a hundred of wich more than seriously).

Thanks to all the "normal" people all over the world for their thoughts, prays ans support.

Time now for tears.
But we won't stay just crying and praying.
We've got to stand up and fight for the freedom of freedom.

Hervé (from Paris)



Re: OT: Paris terror attacks
Posted by: Massimo68 ()
Date: November 15, 2015 15:22

U2 in front of the Bataclan venue yesterday night :

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-11-15 15:24 by Massimo68.

Re: OT: Paris terror attacks
Posted by: ROPENI ()
Date: November 15, 2015 15:24

My two cents worth...The mere existence of ISIS and other groups like them is the direct result of the Irak invasion by, W,Cheney,and their band of psychopaths,who lied to the world about Weapons of Mass Destruction that were never found.. .." Even Tony Blair admitted on UK TV last week that the invasion of Iraq gave rise to Isis....

"No dope smoking no beer sold after 12 o'clock"

Re: OT: Paris terror attacks
Posted by: Eleanor Rigby ()
Date: November 15, 2015 16:08

Quote
ROPENI
My two cents worth...The mere existence of ISIS and other groups like them is the direct result of the Irak invasion by, W,Cheney,and their band of psychopaths,who lied to the world about Weapons of Mass Destruction that were never found.. .." Even Tony Blair admitted on UK TV last week that the invasion of Iraq gave rise to Isis....

Not sure...have you read the quran?
This religion is full of hate...

Re: OT: Paris terror attacks
Posted by: MingSubu ()
Date: November 15, 2015 16:12

Quote
dcba

No Isis is a creation of Saudi Arabia and Qatar to be used against their nemesis Bachar Al Assad.
Nemesis because he's shi'ite (they're sunni) nemesis because he rules a secular state (SA and Qatar are fascist theocraties). Nemesis because Syria is an ally of Iran, the deadly enemy of Saudi Arabia.

So Bachar Al Assad had to be removed and the creation of Isis was the weapon for that task. Pour in Western cynical idiots (Obama Hollande Cameron) who didn't see the danger Isis was and voila! you have a disaster...

The only guy who saw things as they are is PUTIN. I know this isn't what you'll see on CNN but that's the plain truth.

And ask yourself why the Western coallition bombed Isis for 18 months to no avail while Putin's army is defeating this scum in just a few weeks. Allepo (one of Syria's main cities) is about to be freed from Isis and you can thank Putin for that not the Western coallition.

Very interesting and thanks for posting.


Prayers to those who are suffering now. Good journey to the ones we have lost.

Re: OT: Paris terror attacks
Posted by: ROPENI ()
Date: November 15, 2015 16:16

Quote
Eleanor Rigby
Quote
ROPENI
My two cents worth...The mere existence of ISIS and other groups like them is the direct result of the Irak invasion by, W,Cheney,and their band of psychopaths,who lied to the world about Weapons of Mass Destruction that were never found.. .." Even Tony Blair admitted on UK TV last week that the invasion of Iraq gave rise to Isis....

Not sure...have you read the quran?
This religion is full of hate...
Not to get in a religious argument,but the same can be said about the bible,have you read the old testament??

"No dope smoking no beer sold after 12 o'clock"

Re: OT: Paris terror attacks
Posted by: Eleanor Rigby ()
Date: November 15, 2015 16:18

Quote
dcba
Quote
Rokyfan
George Bush created Isis, that is an indisputable fact. He gave them their land, he trained their fighters in Guantanamo and he gave them their weapons (the puppet Iraq gov't we armed and which fled, leaving all the arms to Isis).

No Isis is a creation of Saudi Arabia and Qatar to be used against their nemesis Bachar Al Assad.
Nemesis because he's shi'ite (they're sunni) nemesis because he rules a secular state (SA and Qatar are fascist theocraties). Nemesis because Syria is an ally of Iran, the deadly enemy of Saudi Arabia.

So Bachar Al Assad had to be removed and the creation of Isis was the weapon for that task. Pour in Western cynical idiots (Obama Hollande Cameron) who didn't see the danger Isis was and voila! you have a disaster...

The only guy who saw things as they are is PUTIN. I know this isn't what you'll see on CNN but that's the plain truth.

And ask yourself why the Western coallition bombed Isis for 18 months to no avail while Putin's army is defeating this scum in just a few weeks. Allepo (one of Syria's main cities) is about to be freed from Isis and you can thank Putin for that not the Western coallition.

Yeah and we can thank PUTIN on downing malaysian airline 17...which killed around 300 people!!
Go Putin!!
Get real..

Re: OT: Paris terror attacks
Posted by: Stoneage ()
Date: November 15, 2015 16:31

You're both right, Ropeni and ER. Interests never lies and blood is thicker than water. W Bush wanted to retaliate for his father and Cheney had economical interests in a war. And they also had a "Wag the war" reason.
As I remember your former president called himself a"wartime president" and a "doer". ER is basically right though. The bottom reason is islam and islamism. Islam is a scourge. I'm not the first to realize that.
Napoleon Bonaparte and Winston Churchill warned us for this ages ago.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-11-15 16:34 by Stoneage.

Re: OT: Paris terror attacks
Posted by: HighwireC ()
Date: November 15, 2015 16:35

- I've started this threat and I'm still deeply shocked about these terrible acts of terrorism. I've been several times in Paris (two times to see The Stones: Parc de Prince and Hippodrome de Longchamp, both with heavy rain and thunderstorm), and I do love the people there. I really can't discribe my sadness by now.
I hope I'll get a chance to go to visit this beautiful place again.

- I've started this threat with "Too Much Blood In Paris". This was not ment as a joke or as a wordplay. For me "Undercover" with Songs like Undercover Of The Night (Video banned by MTV and BBC, official because of too much violence, but I think because of the political Statement against the civil war in San Salvador), Too Much Blood (an affront against "Thriller": Truth is stranger than fiction!) and It Must Be Hell is a very clear statement against violence and totalitarism.


- Many People, me too, are asking: Why Paris, again?

Here are some links to look at some historical Background:


Franco-Syrian War [en.wikipedia.org]

Algerian War [en.wikipedia.org]

Ruhollah Khomeini [en.wikipedia.org]

Nicolas Sarkozy [en.wikipedia.org]

Clichy-sous-Bois [en.wikipedia.org]

and many more to find.



This may give us some explanations, but there is never ever any kind of an excuse to kill people.



Peace.
HighwireC



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015-11-15 16:37 by HighwireC.

Re: OT: Paris terror attacks
Posted by: potus43 ()
Date: November 15, 2015 16:37

Quote
ROPENI
My two cents worth...The mere existence of ISIS and other groups like them is the direct result of the Irak invasion by, W,Cheney,and their band of psychopaths,who lied to the world about Weapons of Mass Destruction that were never found.. .." Even Tony Blair admitted on UK TV last week that the invasion of Iraq gave rise to Isis....

wonderful. People dead and you are making it political/point fingers ONLY because you are a left-winger (like the others on this site doing same/you CANNOT resist) while they are mourning. You are the lowest form

Re: OT: Paris terror attacks
Posted by: Fuman2 ()
Date: November 15, 2015 16:43

Quote
potus43
Quote
ROPENI
My two cents worth...The mere existence of ISIS and other groups like them is the direct result of the Irak invasion by, W,Cheney,and their band of psychopaths,who lied to the world about Weapons of Mass Destruction that were never found.. .." Even Tony Blair admitted on UK TV last week that the invasion of Iraq gave rise to Isis....

wonderful. People dead and you are making it political/point fingers ONLY because you are a left-winger (like the others on this site doing same/you CANNOT resist) while they are mourning. You are the lowest form

Because rather than opine we should pray? Because that works?
Because a discussion about motivations is wrong, but sincere wishes are helping?

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