Just wondering what your thoughts
are on this bootleg?
Was going through my collection
the other day and came across it.

I threw the best of Jagger in the car today to see what I want on my ipod. My God I forgot how dreadful a lot of that music is. I found 5 songs I liked and really liked the tune with the Red Devils on there.

It should have been officially released - all of it.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

not much after that from the Red Devils.

they sure distinguished themselves for awhile though, in a big way..

Absolutely great stuff. Mick jagger should release it officially. Great Music !!!
Love it.
jeroen

I remember (I think ) around
the same time as this release
there was talk of a Stones blues
album with the late great Johnny
Winter RIP

Here it is in it's entirely. Some great stuff. Mick has a great voice for more standard blues numbers like these, combine that with his harp playing and it's clearly one of his true talents. Any backstory as to why this wasn't officially released?

[www.youtube.com]

Quote
Naturalust
Any backstory as to why this wasn't officially released?

Just guessing...
As has been discussed recently he was working on Wandering Spirit at the time.
I assume he felt it wasn't commercial enough as he was still attempting to make it BIG as a solo star which still didn't work (don't hate on me Mick fans).
I think one of the tracks made it to his Greatest Hits release, buried amidst the 'hits'.
It would be interesting to know the true facts behind the decision to halt it, but perhaps we'll never know.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Yes, I wonder what the history is of this effort. Maybe the record company
thought this wasn't commercial enough for release?

Quote
swimtothemoon
Yes, I wonder what the history is of this effort. Maybe the record company
thought this wasn't commercial enough for release?

I think Hairballs response is closer to the mark (thanks Hairball). This was probably a Mick decision, I think record companies quit having a say it what he could or could not release sometime around 1970 or so. Keen marketer that he is and as different of a record as Wandering Spirit is he probably chose not to confuse the buying public's image of him or compete in any way with his more commercial endeavor.

I guess it could have something do do with copyrights or demands of the other performers he didn't want to deal with or conform to as well.

Quote
Naturalust

Quote
swimtothemoon
Yes, I wonder what the history is of this effort. Maybe the record company
thought this wasn't commercial enough for release?

I think Hairballs response is closer to the mark (thanks Hairball). This was probably a Mick decision, I think record companies quit having a say it what he could or could not release sometime around 1970 or so. Keen marketer that he is and as different of a record as Wandering Spirit is he probably chose not to confuse the buying public's image of him or compete in any way with his more commercial endeavor.

I guess it could have something do do with copyrights or demands of the other performers he didn't want to deal with or conform to as well.

Sounds absolutely plausible, but it could also be that he never intended to release the session (recorded in "old-fashioned" live-in-the-studio way) in the first place, at least not in an album format, apart from using certain tracks as b-sides or similar.

Several different stories made the rounds back in the day - one was that he saw the Red Devils in a club somewhere, that they reminded him of the early Stones, what in turn created his desire to record some old blues standarts with them just for the fun of it, another one was that he had already signed a one-album deal with Atlantic when finally the Stones agreed to do another album and tour and that the Red Devils session was quickly arranged to serve as a contract filler, but declined by Atlantic because of it's obvious lack of commercial potential, demanding a solo album with all-new material instead. Another variation was that the Red Devils session was Rubin's idea to get Mick in the "right mood" for the upcoming "Wandering Spirit" production.

Considering they were a relatively unknown blues band to the general public at the time, they were probably chomping at the bit to have this released. But who knows what kind of things may have resulted in it not being released. I still have a feeling the final veto came from Mick for whatever reason.

As I've mentioned in the past, I grew up with Les Butler in Santa Monica attending the same schools, watching him play harp and sing with high school bands at parties, etc. Although I wasn't that close of friends with him, we had mutual friends who were musicians/pot dealers and would hang out at their house sometimes all hours of the night playing music - and partying. It was clear even then he had a very large appetite for some hard and heavy duty partying, but like any dedicated musician he always had his harp with him. When he started to become 'successful' with his band, everyone was rooting for him. And then when word was out that his band was recording Mick Jagger, everyone was pretty much blown away. Just re-reading the wiki link again, and it's sad to see what a waste it all was. The drugs not only derailed his young career, but ultimately also took his life. RIP.

Red Devils

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Quote
Naturalust

Quote
swimtothemoon
Yes, I wonder what the history is of this effort. Maybe the record company
thought this wasn't commercial enough for release?

I think Hairballs response is closer to the mark (thanks Hairball). This was probably a Mick decision, I think record companies quit having a say it what he could or could not release sometime around 1970 or so. Keen marketer that he is and as different of a record as Wandering Spirit is he probably chose not to confuse the buying public's image of him or compete in any way with his more commercial endeavor.

I guess it could have something do do with copyrights or demands of the other performers he didn't want to deal with or conform to as well.

Thanks. Yes probably a Mick decision. Likely he was looking for a different sound with his first solo releases. After all these years it would be great to have
Official release. However, overall sales could be dismal.

Quote
swimtothemoon
After all these years it would be great to have
Official release. However, overall sales could be dismal.

A 25th Anniversary Edition of Wandering Spirit would be a nice gesture indeed - 2CD's (CD1: WS plus existing outtakes, CD2: Red Devils Session plus live tracks with Gary Moore from 1992) and 1 DVD/BlueRay (WS live at Webster Hall)...just an idea...

Quote
alimente

Quote
Naturalust

Quote
swimtothemoon
Yes, I wonder what the history is of this effort. Maybe the record company
thought this wasn't commercial enough for release?

I think Hairballs response is closer to the mark (thanks Hairball). This was probably a Mick decision, I think record companies quit having a say it what he could or could not release sometime around 1970 or so. Keen marketer that he is and as different of a record as Wandering Spirit is he probably chose not to confuse the buying public's image of him or compete in any way with his more commercial endeavor.

I guess it could have something do do with copyrights or demands of the other performers he didn't want to deal with or conform to as well.

Sounds absolutely plausible, but it could also be that he never intended to release the session (recorded in "old-fashioned" live-in-the-studio way) in the first place, at least not in an album format, apart from using certain tracks as b-sides or similar.

Several different stories made the rounds back in the day - one was that he saw the Red Devils in a club somewhere, that they reminded him of the early Stones, what in turn created his desire to record some old blues standarts with them just for the fun of it, another one was that he had already signed a one-album deal with Atlantic when finally the Stones agreed to do another album and tour and that the Red Devils session was quickly arranged to serve as a contract filler, but declined by Atlantic because of it's obvious lack of commercial potential, demanding a solo album with all-new material instead. Another variation was that the Red Devils session was Rubin's idea to get Mick in the "right mood" for the upcoming "Wandering Spirit" production.

Interesting thanks.
According to this: WS

"In January 1992, after landing Rick Rubin as co-producer, Jagger recorded the album in Los Angeles over seven months until September 1992"

And according to this: RedDevils

In June 1992 "the Red Devils were invited to record some blues standards with Jagger, presumably for his upcoming solo album. During one thirteen-hour recording session at Ocean Way Recording in Hollywood, Jagger and the Devils recorded thirteen songs".

Which would mean the Mick/Red Devils session came right in the middle of the Wandering Spirit recording sessions.

Could have indeed been done to use for B-sides, or 'just for fun', and maybe even to 'loosen him up' in the midst of the Rubin sessions.
Not to sure about the 'contract filler' theory though, but could have been?

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

I've been trying to dig up credits regarding the harp playing on this, but so far no luck.
Wondering if Mick played any harp on this, or is it all Les Butler which I would assume.
While Mick's a fine harp player, some of this sounds a bit superior to what he's known for - but not sure.
Anyone have any info.?

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Quote
Hairball
I've been trying to dig up credits regarding the harp playing on this, but so far no luck.
Wondering if Mick played any harp on this, or is it all Les Butler which I would assume.
While Mick's a fine harp player, some of this sounds a bit superior to what he's known for - but not sure.
Anyone have any info.?

The harp player is Lester Butler, an absolute wizzard on the 'poor man's piano.'

He was the Devils' vocalist and sadly overdosed in 1998.

If you've never listened to the Red Devils' King King or 13 featuring Lester Butler, you're in for a treat.

Those Jagger/Devils sessions should be released, preferably on vinyl



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-11-11 12:48 by mr edward.

I spoke with Lester Butler at the Paradiso club in Amsterdam. I don't think it was with the Red Devils, but with 13, but I am not quite sure. Must have been 1995 or 1996. Anyway, we told him about the great bootleg with Jagger, and he didn't believe us. He said that Jagger had made sure there where no copies made of the tape, and that Jagger left the studio with the master tapes under his arm. We then bought a couple of the boot CD's accross the street, and gave one to Butler, and he signed our copies. He also said they -including Jagger - didn't really like the material as it was under rehearsed. There apperently was no intention to release the material, but more an intention by Rubin to see if magic would happen when the Red Devils and Jagger would play together.

Mathijs

Quote
Mathijs
I spoke with Lester Butler at the Paradiso club in Amsterdam. I don't think it was with the Red Devils, but with 13, but I am not quite sure. Must have been 1995 or 1996. Anyway, we told him about the great bootleg with Jagger, and he didn't believe us. He said that Jagger had made sure there where no copies made of the tape, and that Jagger left the studio with the master tapes under his arm. We then bought a couple of the boot CD's accross the street, and gave one to Butler, and he signed our copies. He also said they -including Jagger - didn't really like the material as it was under rehearsed. There apperently was no intention to release the material, but more an intention by Rubin to see if magic would happen when the Red Devils and Jagger would play together.

Mathijs

Great story!

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mr edward

Quote
Mathijs
I spoke with Lester Butler at the Paradiso club in Amsterdam. I don't think it was with the Red Devils, but with 13, but I am not quite sure. Must have been 1995 or 1996. Anyway, we told him about the great bootleg with Jagger, and he didn't believe us. He said that Jagger had made sure there where no copies made of the tape, and that Jagger left the studio with the master tapes under his arm. We then bought a couple of the boot CD's accross the street, and gave one to Butler, and he signed our copies. He also said they -including Jagger - didn't really like the material as it was under rehearsed. There apperently was no intention to release the material, but more an intention by Rubin to see if magic would happen when the Red Devils and Jagger would play together.

Mathijs

Great story!

Yes nice story. A real shame that those sessions didn't develop into anything deemed releasable. I personally think there's great stuff on there - particularly like Shake 'em on down. And very sad to hear that Lester Butler fell victim to his appetites.

Quote
mr edward

Quote
Hairball
I've been trying to dig up credits regarding the harp playing on this, but so far no luck.
Wondering if Mick played any harp on this, or is it all Les Butler which I would assume.
While Mick's a fine harp player, some of this sounds a bit superior to what he's known for - but not sure.
Anyone have any info.?

The harp player is Lester Butler, an absolute wizzard on the 'poor man's piano.'

He was the Devils' vocalist and sadly overdosed in 1998.

If you've never listened to the Red Devils' King King or 13 featuring Lester Butler, you're in for a treat.

Those Jagger/Devils sessions should be released, preferably on vinyl

Thanks for the info. mr edward - was just trying to clarify exact credits on these recordings as some might be mistaken in thinking it was all Mick on harp.
And yes totally familiar with the recordings as well as Lester Butler himself (or simply Les as he was known to us) - see my story a few posts above the one you quoted.

And thanks Mathijs for the cool Amsterdam story - there's some videos of he and his band 13 playing various shows,
festivals, etc.in the Netherlands around that time (including a lengthy interview with him) somewhere on youtube.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-11-11 18:44 by Hairball.

I seem to recall reading back in the day that there was some thought of releasing the material after Wandering Spirit, but it was squelched when Eric Clapton released "From The Cradle". he didn't want to appear to be nicking Eric's idea!

I have no recall of where I read that, so I can't vouch for the credibility, but it sounds reasonable!

I always liked the bootleg!

Ross

get The Red Devils´ live CD KING KING. And listen to Devil Woman....wow.

Quote
Ross
I seem to recall reading back in the day that there was some thought of releasing the material after Wandering Spirit, but it was squelched when Eric Clapton released "From The Cradle". he didn't want to appear to be nicking Eric's idea!

I have no recall of where I read that, so I can't vouch for the credibility, but it sounds reasonable!

I always liked the bootleg!

Ross

That does sound reasonable. Maybe Eric got wind of what Mick was up to and got in there quick. Revenge for Mick stealing Carla Bruni off him.

Quote
Hairball

I assume he felt it wasn't commercial enough as he was still attempting to make it BIG as a solo star which still didn't work (don't hate on me Mick fans).

Yep, that's why he didn't tour to support the album - unlike Richards who toured behind MO album. One appearance on SNL (where he actually performed two WS songs live),one Webster Hall gig, a modest PR, and right after that he started the work on the new Stones album - can't see him trying that hard to make it BIG as a solo star
As for your second statement about how "it still didn't work" - there is some food for thought

"georgelicks
Some worldwide sales for the solo works:

She's The Boss (2,5 worldwide, 1.3 m US)
Primitive Cool (800-850k worldwide, 300-350k US)
Talk is Cheap (900k - 1 m worldwide, 600-650k US)
Hollywood Palladium (150-200k worldwide, 60k US)
Main Offender (400-500k worldwide, 250k US)
Wandering Spirit (2.2 - 2.3 m worldwide, +1 m Europe, 500k US)
Goddess In The Doorway (1.3 m worldwide, +500k Europe, 350k US)
Alfie soundtrack (150-200k worldwide, 80k US)
Best Of MJ (200-250k worldwide, 60k US)
Vintage Winos (20k US)
Superheavy (550-600k worldwide, 250-300k Europe, 140k US)"


lo and behold it turned out that Mick was not going to release this RD session at all

Nice work proudmary. As I stated, my entire post was just an assumption.

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Back to the Red Devils - w/out Mick.
Here's one of the video's I referred to above, but turns out it's an interview with Les while still with the Red Devils in 1993 at the Pinkpop Festival in the Netherlands.
Red Devils: Lester Butler Pinkpop interview 1993




And here's a video of his very last gig with his band 13 from 1998 in Ospel, Netherlands.
Killer tune and amazing harp.

Lester Butler's last gig ft. 13 (1998)- track1-night




_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Quote
Hairball
Nice work proudmary. As I stated, my entire post was just an assumption.

_____________________________________________________________________________

Back to the Red Devils - w/out Mick.
Here's one of the video's I referred to above, but turns out it's an interview with Les while still with the Red Devils in 1993 at the Pinkpop Festival in the Netherlands.
Red Devils: Lester Butler Pinkpop interview 1993




And here's a video of his very last gig with his band 13 from 1998 in Ospel, Netherlands.
Killer tune and amazing harp.

Lester Butler's last gig ft. 13 (1998)- track1-night

1:40 'Mama, I might not live tomorrow.'

Thanks for posting!

I'm a huge fan of Jagger solo, but I find the bootleg of Jagger with the Red Devils simply an interesting listen but not one to listen to more than a couple of times. It's certainly not this unbelievable lost tape that many have hyped it as...

Love it...

Quote
kammpberg
I'm a huge fan of Jagger solo, but I find the bootleg of Jagger with the Red Devils simply an interesting listen but not one to listen to more than a couple of times. It's certainly not this unbelievable lost tape that many have hyped it as...

That might be an issue then if you're a 'huge fan of Jagger solo'.
This collaboration is a band effort, and a far cry from anything Jagger has officially released ala Let's Work and what not.
Nothing truly earth shattering - just some back to basics trad. blues recorded almost spontaneously, and that's what's great about it imo.
Hopefully some day it will be officially released - as someone mentioned above maybe a companion disc for the deluxe 25th anniversary Wandering Spirit.
Or better yet, officially released on it's own merit without being clogged up by anything else.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......