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Swayed1967
'attack-wise?' Maybe you need some snakeskin boots and a helmet.

I suppose I can hear Keith 'attacking' the fretboard in SFTD but I'm not really sure what you mean by 'attack-wise.' Can you point out some other songs where Keith goes on attack? He plays a very rugged, aggressive guitar on, say, Monkey Man but I think you mean something different, yes?

Can't speak for DP but I find nothing particularly unique or difficult in Keith's attack as in the way he initially hits the strings when playing chords or single note runs. In fact his right hard approach is pretty simplistic from a guitar players perspective in that he mainly just strums or picks the strings, perhaps with attention to what actual strings he's hitting. But even there it's hardly a finesse approach judging by his need to remove the 6th string in an open G tuning so it would ring out by accident! He certainly could have left it there and muted it like many other players do and even used in to great effect if he so chose.

There are exceptions of course where he tends to pick just the right strings in a way that seems hard to reproduce and I've often wondered it it was sloppiness or genius when I've analyzed it trying to get the same sound...perhaps a little bit of both. But think the better description of what Keith does there and is so masterful at is "phrasing". His phrasing on so many of his great tunes like HTW, CYHMK and so many others was somewhat unique and perfect for the song.

When I think of players who are masters of attack I think of people like Brent Mason, Jeff Beck or even Jerry Garcia. They use attack as a separate element of their playing, changing it up between soft and hard, loud and quiet, and everything in between and using elements of cross picking and finger and pick combinations in a way that defines masterful attack. Keith is more meat and potatoes when it comes to attack in the traditional sense of the word, imo.

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beachbreak
He was never a flashy player. What could he play then that he can't play now? I would say not much.

WTF? Keith used to play blistering, fast leads in the early days of the band. He played lead, Brian played rhythm. His speed declined and he became a chunkier rhythm player, usually only playing lead on Chuck Berry type songs from the late 60s onward. Still, take circa '81 Keith playing When The Whip Comes Down and compare it to the 2015 Keith playing the same song, and you would hear a massive decline.

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24FPS

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beachbreak
He was never a flashy player. What could he play then that he can't play now? I would say not much.

WTF? Keith used to play blistering, fast leads in the early days of the band. He played lead, Brian played rhythm. His speed declined and he became a chunkier rhythm player, usually only playing lead on Chuck Berry type songs from the late 60s onward. Still, take circa '81 Keith playing When The Whip Comes Down and compare it to the 2015 Keith playing the same song, and you would hear a massive decline.

Blistering fast leads? Keith? We are talking about the Stones right? Ok I admit my knowledge of early Stones is pretty weak but I'd love to hear what you are referring to.

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Stoneburst
Not really, no. More to the point, the famous recording of Let It Rock from the Leeds show is (as far as we know) authentic - no overdubs or edits, unlike say Ya-Ya's. We have no idea how many takes Blues In The Morning is a product of, but I would bet it's quite a few.

Just to clarify, for what seems like the thousandth time, there are NO guitar overdubs on YaYa's.

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24FPS

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beachbreak
He was never a flashy player. What could he play then that he can't play now? I would say not much.

WTF? Keith used to play blistering, fast leads in the early days of the band. He played lead, Brian played rhythm. His speed declined and he became a chunkier rhythm player, usually only playing lead on Chuck Berry type songs from the late 60s onward. Still, take circa '81 Keith playing When The Whip Comes Down and compare it to the 2015 Keith playing the same song, and you would hear a massive decline.

Um....no

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24FPS

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beachbreak
He was never a flashy player. What could he play then that he can't play now? I would say not much.

WTF? Keith used to play blistering, fast leads in the early days of the band. He played lead, Brian played rhythm. His speed declined and he became a chunkier rhythm player, usually only playing lead on Chuck Berry type songs from the late 60s onward. Still, take circa '81 Keith playing When The Whip Comes Down and compare it to the 2015 Keith playing the same song, and you would hear a massive decline.

Blistering fast leads? lol

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24FPS

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beachbreak
He was never a flashy player. What could he play then that he can't play now? I would say not much.

WTF? Keith used to play blistering, fast leads in the early days of the band. He played lead, Brian played rhythm. His speed declined and he became a chunkier rhythm player, usually only playing lead on Chuck Berry type songs from the late 60s onward. Still, take circa '81 Keith playing When The Whip Comes Down and compare it to the 2015 Keith playing the same song, and you would hear a massive decline.

Make sure you're not playing your lps at 45rpm. What fast leads?

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shawnriffhard1

Just to clarify, for what seems like the thousandth time, there are NO guitar overdubs on YaYa's.

There are.

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shawnriffhard1

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Stoneburst
Not really, no. More to the point, the famous recording of Let It Rock from the Leeds show is (as far as we know) authentic - no overdubs or edits, unlike say Ya-Ya's. We have no idea how many takes Blues In The Morning is a product of, but I would bet it's quite a few.

Just to clarify, for what seems like the thousandth time, there are NO guitar overdubs on YaYa's.

Why do you say this? It is understood that there are many

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Naturalust

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24FPS

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beachbreak
He was never a flashy player. What could he play then that he can't play now? I would say not much.

WTF? Keith used to play blistering, fast leads in the early days of the band. He played lead, Brian played rhythm. His speed declined and he became a chunkier rhythm player, usually only playing lead on Chuck Berry type songs from the late 60s onward. Still, take circa '81 Keith playing When The Whip Comes Down and compare it to the 2015 Keith playing the same song, and you would hear a massive decline.

Blistering fast leads? Keith? We are talking about the Stones right? Ok I admit my knowledge of early Stones is pretty weak but I'd love to hear what you are referring to.

Maybe he means Keith Moon...

"I hope you didn't record any of this""No I didn't"

Let Me Go on Leeds is fast. Rock And A Hard Place live is very fast.

Listen to Going Down with Beck at the O2 to find he still got the attack.

It it's easy playing like Keith feel free to post your own versions of you nailing his playing. I guess the contributions here will wane into nothingness.

As you age, the faculties wear-away and movement slow down. Keith no-longer possesses the required dexterity to pull-off the blistering lead-runs from yesteryear. He still shines often, and his emphasis on riffs and rhythm have surely contributed to his longevity as a guitarist. Just a point regarding Blues In The Morning: whilst his playing is enjoyable, it's sloppy, uncoordinated and by-numbers. It has no unique identity that you could attribute to him alone. Listen to Keith's playing from Hail Hail Rock an' Roll or his Berry-fills on television with Jerry Lee Lewis, circa 1983. That's how he used to play; and there is no mistaking that sound and style for anyone else's. Yeah, it's Berry-guitar, but Keith's version. Utterly unsurpassed.

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Stoneburst
Not really, no. More to the point, the famous recording of Let It Rock from the Leeds show is (as far as we know) authentic - no overdubs or edits, unlike say Ya-Ya's. We have no idea how many takes Blues In The Morning is a product of, but I would bet it's quite a few.

According to Steve Jordan BITM was cut in 15 minutes, one take I believe. Hopefully somebody can find the quote from the many publications, I will also keep looking.

Compare Leeds 82 to any present gig or present studio take. There is a big difference in guitar playing. Also then Keith was no virtuoso, but his playing was aggressive and spontaneous, while at present he stays on the safe side (compare especially Beast of Burden, Leeds 82, to Beast of Burden, Hyde Park 2013, or take into consideration Gimme Shelter 75/76 and nowadays, the latter is more Lisa Fisher than Keith or Ronnie, unfortunately).

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Swayed1967
'attack-wise?' Maybe you need some snakeskin boots and a helmet.

I suppose I can hear Keith 'attacking' the fretboard in SFTD but I'm not really sure what you mean by 'attack-wise.'
Can you point out some other songs where Keith goes on attack? He plays a very rugged, aggressive guitar on, say,
Monkey Man but I think you mean something different, yes?

Swayed1967, I believe Dandelion means attack in this sense: [www.thegearpage.net]

Yep, you got it with sssoul – both hands

But it doesn't necessarily mean to hammer on heavily. How you pluck/strum strings and finger the fretboard gives you a sound, a unique sound. Of course, Keith has a unique sound. Still has it.

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Turner68

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shawnriffhard1

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Stoneburst
Not really, no. More to the point, the famous recording of Let It Rock from the Leeds show is (as far as we know) authentic - no overdubs or edits, unlike say Ya-Ya's. We have no idea how many takes Blues In The Morning is a product of, but I would bet it's quite a few.

Just to clarify, for what seems like the thousandth time, there are NO guitar overdubs on YaYa's.

Why do you say this? It is understood that there are many

From ChrisM's site. His research is completely sound as far as I can tell-
Summary of "Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out!" Recording Information

Six of ten songs are vocal overdubs.
There is one possibility of guitar or instrumental overdubbing.
Carol: MSG 11/28/69 1st, Mick Taylor's guitar piece is possibly overdubbed.

[www.rollingstonesnet.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-11-09 21:34 by shawnriffhard1.

Carol, Little Queenie and (newly discovered) Stray Cat Blues have rhythm guitar overdubs.

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shawnriffhard1

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Turner68

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shawnriffhard1

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Stoneburst
Not really, no. More to the point, the famous recording of Let It Rock from the Leeds show is (as far as we know) authentic - no overdubs or edits, unlike say Ya-Ya's. We have no idea how many takes Blues In The Morning is a product of, but I would bet it's quite a few.

Just to clarify, for what seems like the thousandth time, there are NO guitar overdubs on YaYa's.

Why do you say this? It is understood that there are many

From ChrisM's site. His research is completely sound as far as I can tell-
Summary of "Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out!" Recording Information

Six of ten songs are vocal overdubs.
There is one possibility of guitar or instrumental overdubbing.
Carol: MSG 11/28/69 1st, Mick Taylor's guitar piece is possibly overdubbed.

One song and one instrumental track are from Baltimore 11/26/69.
Two instrumental tracks are from 11/27/69.
Two songs and two instrumental tracks are determined to be 11/28/69 1st, by process of elimination.
One song and one instrumental track are from 11/28/69 2nd.
[www.rollingstonesnet.com]

I think Mathijis (I think I spelled that wrong, but whatever) did some deep diving into this topic? I just can't find the thread...

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BreakingBlues

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shawnriffhard1

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Turner68

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shawnriffhard1

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Stoneburst
Not really, no. More to the point, the famous recording of Let It Rock from the Leeds show is (as far as we know) authentic - no overdubs or edits, unlike say Ya-Ya's. We have no idea how many takes Blues In The Morning is a product of, but I would bet it's quite a few.

Just to clarify, for what seems like the thousandth time, there are NO guitar overdubs on YaYa's.

Why do you say this? It is understood that there are many

From ChrisM's site. His research is completely sound as far as I can tell-
Summary of "Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out!" Recording Information

Six of ten songs are vocal overdubs.
There is one possibility of guitar or instrumental overdubbing.
Carol: MSG 11/28/69 1st, Mick Taylor's guitar piece is possibly overdubbed.

One song and one instrumental track are from Baltimore 11/26/69.
Two instrumental tracks are from 11/27/69.
Two songs and two instrumental tracks are determined to be 11/28/69 1st, by process of elimination.
One song and one instrumental track are from 11/28/69 2nd.
[www.rollingstonesnet.com]

I think Mathijis (I think I spelled that wrong, but whatever) did some deep diving into this topic? I just can't find the thread...

just click the link above. it's an entire page devoted to overdubbing on ya-yas.

His skills have diminished but he is still Keith and the greatest RIFFMASTER
of all time.

What I like about Keith's playing is the small number of notes he plays per second, not the speed with which he plays the notes. Eric Clapton can outpace most anyone in terms of notes per second (NPS), but that type of music is nerve shattering. I feel I need to take an anxiety drug after listening to Eric.

What impresses me about Keith is the number of sound effects he can make with his guitar. The initial rumbling riffs of Blues in the Morning resemble the sounds of a train slowly moving down the tracks. Then, there are guitar solos with Keith apparently playing one note at a time, then wild sections where he is playing two or three strings at the same time with great rhythm.

No one can make the guitar communicate so well.

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flilflam
What I like about Keith's playing is the small number of notes he plays per second, not the speed with which he plays the notes. Eric Clapton can outpace most anyone in terms of notes per second (NPS), but that type of music is nerve shattering. I feel I need to take an anxiety drug after listening to Eric.

What impresses me about Keith is the number of sound effects he can make with his guitar. The initial rumbling riffs of Blues in the Morning resemble the sounds of a train slowly moving down the tracks. Then, there are guitar solos with Keith apparently playing one note at a time, then wild sections where he is playing two or three strings at the same time with great rhythm.

No one can make the guitar communicate so well.

Great way of describing Keith's style. Great guitar playing isn't all about how many notes you can cram into one second



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-11-10 06:08 by stones2000.

Blues in the Morning is your shining example of Keith's stellar playing?
As generic a 'Jam' as ever there was?
His guitar playing,when he deigns to actually play has diminished a great deal.

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Midnight Toker
His skills have diminished but he is still Keith and the greatest RIFFMASTER
of all time.

That's all

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72hotrocks
Blues in the Morning is your shining example of Keith's stellar playing?
As generic a 'Jam' as ever there was?
His guitar playing,when he deigns to actually play has diminished a great deal.

Blues In The Morning is a great example. For us who love the early Stones it reminds us about what Keith is all about and where the Stones came from. In many ways, the start of that track really shows what's so unique about Keith's guitar player. No one else would have done it like that, or that well.

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DandelionPowderman

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72hotrocks
Blues in the Morning is your shining example of Keith's stellar playing?
As generic a 'Jam' as ever there was?
His guitar playing,when he deigns to actually play has diminished a great deal.

Blues In The Morning is a great example. For us who love the early Stones it reminds us about what Keith is all about and where the Stones came from. In many ways, the start of that track really shows what's so unique about Keith's guitar player. No one else would have done it like that, or that well.

I agree, and flilflam describes it perfectly as "The initial rumbling riffs ...resemble the sounds of a train slowly moving down the tracks".

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

People are obviously fans of the Stones for different reasons, and we have learned the last few weeks that Keith Richards's playing and singing not necessarily has anything to do with why others like the Stones. Quite on the contrary, a couple of years ago people were playing with the thought of replacing him!

For me that is baffling, but my reasons for loving the Stones are probably baffling to others as well

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DandelionPowderman
People are obviously fans of the Stones for different reasons, and we have learned the last few weeks that Keith Richards's playing and singing not necessarily has anything to do with why others like the Stones. Quite on the contrary, a couple of years ago people were playing with the thought of replacing him!

For me that is baffling, but my reasons for loving the Stones are probably baffling to others as well

there is a lot of diversity. for me, the biggest surprise is the number of people who don't seem to be fans of the "classic stones" - i.e. the brian jones era. and also i'm surprised to learn that there are fans of their recent albums. part of what makes it fun to come here and chat about stuff. it would be boring if we all agreed.

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Maindefender
According to Steve Jordan BITM was cut in 15 minutes, one take I believe.
Hopefully somebody can find the quote from the many publications,
I will also keep looking.

I adore Blues in the Morning, but it couldn't have been one take with Keith on bass, piano, guitar and vocals.
I reckon Steve meant the basic jam was done in 15 minutes, but which instrument was Keith playing for that?