HATE that. No Stones at all, Where's Ronnie? Doubt that Keef's playing on it at all. One of the worst "Stones" songs ever, not sounding like Stones at all.
Boring rubbish, Jaggershit like most of him in the first half of the 80ies.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-06-08 15:49 by micawber.

I dig it...
Always have.

I liked it when I was a teenager....I thought David Sandborn played the sax on this?

This is my least liked song from glorious Undercover. I wouldn´t say it´s total crap... but somehow this is not the STones... It´s a solo song from Mick and should be on She´s The Boss. That´s were it belongs, imo. It has a catchy chorus but listening closely it turns out to be just a stupid song (like most songs from She´s The Boss).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-06-08 17:48 by HMS.

I like how it's different in terms of way off the path of the usual, with a lot going on, with fantastic horns, which is nice.

Back when they were still interested in being inventive.

It's an odd track, certainly, but I've had it in my recent REWIND (Expanded Deluxe Edition) playlist and it fits fantastically.

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GasLightStreet
I like how it's different in terms of way off the path of the usual, with a lot going on, with fantastic horns, which is nice.

Back when they were still interested in being inventive.

It's an odd track, certainly, but I've had it in my recent REWIND (Expanded Deluxe Edition) playlist and it fits fantastically.

It's certainly different - perhaps more Jaggerish than Stonesish but enjoyable to my ears nonetheless. I tend to give it a listen most often around Hallowe'en when I'm more in the mood to listen to spooky/macabre tracks of various artists!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-06-09 16:33 by sf37.

Never ever liked this song. Wasn't the Jeffrey Dohmer thnig going on at that time ? I thought it was gross then, and still do

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bob r
Never ever liked this song. Wasn't the Jeffrey Dohmer thnig going on at that time ? I thought it was gross then, and still do

Jeffery Dahmer didn't start killing people until 1987 so... no.

that one always reminded me of the black knight.

If you listen to this song, as well as UNDERCOVER itself, a majority of it, anyway, it's the last album where Mick was completely engaged in the vocals (there are some similar aspects on EMOTIONAL RESCUE with She's So Cold and maybe Send It To Me). There's a lot of layering. Even with guitars there's a lot going on. It's the proper followup to ER and, soundwise, the end of a brilliant sound arc with the Pathé Marconi (and somewhat Compass Point) recorded SOME GIRLS and EMOTIONAL RESCUE (as well as what would be 5 TATTOO YOU tracks), with ER's last sessions being in September of 1979 to U's November of 1982 starting sessions.

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GasLightStreet
If you listen to this song, as well as UNDERCOVER itself, a majority of it, anyway, it's the last album where Mick was completely engaged in the vocals (there are some similar aspects on EMOTIONAL RESCUE with She's So Cold and maybe Send It To Me). There's a lot of layering. Even with guitars there's a lot going on. It's the proper followup to ER and, soundwise, the end of a brilliant sound arc with the Pathé Marconi (and somewhat Compass Point) recorded SOME GIRLS and EMOTIONAL RESCUE (as well as what would be 5 TATTOO YOU tracks), with ER's last sessions being in September of 1979 to U's November of 1982 starting sessions.

You "forgot" one Pathe Marconi-album

Love this song. One of their best from the 80s. Probably thanks to the Rewind video. This is full blown early 80s Stones.

There is a magic to this track that reveals itself when you put aside musical prejudices, expectations etc etc.

So hooky and ridiculous and dark and fun.

The you up there is evidently me, but give it a try and make it we.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2019-06-11 12:20 by His Majesty.

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DandelionPowderman

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GasLightStreet
If you listen to this song, as well as UNDERCOVER itself, a majority of it, anyway, it's the last album where Mick was completely engaged in the vocals (there are some similar aspects on EMOTIONAL RESCUE with She's So Cold and maybe Send It To Me). There's a lot of layering. Even with guitars there's a lot going on. It's the proper followup to ER and, soundwise, the end of a brilliant sound arc with the Pathé Marconi (and somewhat Compass Point) recorded SOME GIRLS and EMOTIONAL RESCUE (as well as what would be 5 TATTOO YOU tracks), with ER's last sessions being in September of 1979 to U's November of 1982 starting sessions.

You "forgot" one Pathe Marconi-album

I didn't.

Fantastic track on a fantastic album. Truly the last time the Stones were innovative.

Mathijs

Issei Sagawa died.

It was only 1 minute ago I learned this song is about the sick things he did.

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PaintMonkeyManBlack
Issei Sagawa died.

It was only 1 minute ago I learned this song is about the sick things he did.

Did you not know?
Jagger could have added a verse on rich kids getting away with everything

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Mathijs
Fantastic track on a fantastic album. Truly the last time the Stones were innovative.

Mathijs

Bridges is a better , more innovative album than Undercover. And side 2 of Undercover after Too Much Blood is really weak



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-12-02 21:19 by Taylor1.

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Mathijs
Fantastic track on a fantastic album. Truly the last time the Stones were innovative.

Mathijs

I totally agree

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Taylor1

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Mathijs
Fantastic track on a fantastic album. Truly the last time the Stones were innovative.

Mathijs

Bridges is a better , more innovative album than Undercover. aside 2 of Undercover after Too Much Blood is really weak

I wholeheartedly disagree. Bridges is a good album, but in all senses fairly standard Stones RnR, perhaps with only Might AWGJ a bit more modern.

Undercover was really innovative in its production, and the last time they were actually experimenting with new influences. It was the last time they made an album that fitted and was part of the time it was released. When it was released it really was a modern album. Everything they released afterwards was the Stones making good old fashioned Stones music, very much not modern, but actually old fashioned. Something that worked on Bridges, but terribly failed on Voodoo Lounge.

Mathijs

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Mathijs

the last time they were actually experimenting with new influences. It was the last time they made an album that fitted and was part of the time it was released.

Mathijs

I think Jagger wanted to re-do what had worked well with ER and TY : catching the vibe of the place and the time they were making an album and injecting it into their lp.
It had worked pretty well with ER and TY because the vive was NYC and its flourishing musical scene.
In 1982 in Paris the musical vibe wasn't exactly thriving... with one exception, which was the "world music" thing.
And Jagger tackled this trend to the songs of the album. Hence the presence on the album of African musicians.

And in 83 he would "go south" materially by finishing the recording of UC in the Bahamas.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-12-02 15:11 by dcba.

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micawber
HATE that. No Stones at all, Where's Ronnie? Doubt that Keef's playing on it at all. One of the worst "Stones" songs ever, not sounding like Stones at all.
Boring rubbish, Jaggershit like most of him in the first half of the 80ies.

Keith and Ronnie play on it.

Not sounding like the Stones at all?

Please describe what they're supposed to sound like.

Great song. Great groove, good melody, funny, Stones but different.
One of the last times they did something new/original that still sounded great.

Undercover would have been a fantastic (but short) album, one of their best, if they'd left out Wanna Hold You, All The Way Down, Too Tight and Must Be Hell.
Maybe they should have waited a few more years, add in One Hit, Harlem Shuffle and Sleep Tonight and instead of one okay and one bad album they would have had one fantastic album.

Great track. Loved it back then in '83 and still do know. I always hoped they would play it live once. But I guess that will never happen

Today in De Telegraaf:

Overleden Moordenaar Nederlandse studente bleef dankzij invloedrijke familie op vrije voeten
De Japanner Issei Sagawa (73) was columnist, schilder en porno-acteur, maar bovenal de kannibalistische moordenaar van de Nederlandse studente Renée Hartevelt. Deze week overleed hij na een ziekbed, ongestraft voor zijn wandaden dankzij een invloedrijke vader. Onverteerbaar voor nabestaanden werd de moordenaar in Japan een soort cultfiguur.
MARCO WEIJERS
Renée Hartevelt studeerde begin jaren 80 op de prestigieuze Sorbonne in Parijs en schreef aan haar ouders in Heemstede dat zij een Japanse medestudent hielp met de Duitse taal. Ze deed dat uit medelijden met de onooglijke Issei Sagawa, die met zijn 1 meter 52 bij de club van buitenlandse studenten buiten de boot viel. Hij was naar eigen zeggen op slag verliefd. Op een avond nodigde hij de Nederlandse uit voor een diner in zijn appartement, waar hij avances maakte. Zwaar beledigd door haar afwijzing, haalde hij vervolgens een vuurwapen tevoorschijn.

Wapen
Onder bedreiging met dat wapen werd Hartevelt (24) door Sagawa gedwongen om Duitse gedichten over God en de dood voor te dragen, aldus de Franse rechter die de zaak destijds behandelde in zijn memoires. Toen Renée, met haar rug naar hem toegekeerd, deed wat de Japanner eiste, schoot hij haar dood. „Eerst wilde ik nog een ambulance bellen. Maar toen dacht ik: doe niet zo gek, dit is waar je al je leven lang van hebt gedroomd”, verklaarde de moordenaar.

Bij de brute moord liet Sagawa het dan ook niet. De Japanner verkrachtte het ontzielde slachtoffer en at in de dagen die volgden delen van Hartevelts lichaam op. De moordenaar claimde later dat zijn fascinatie voor het eten van mensenvlees al op zijn zesde was ontstaan. Gevoed door het Grimm-sprookje Hans & Grietje – waarin de boze heks zich verheugt op een mals kinderboutje – en door de aanblik van blote meisjesdijen.

Twee dagen na de moord op Renée Hartevelt propte Sagawa wat over was van haar lichaam in twee koffers en begaf zich per taxi naar het Bois de Boulogne. Daar probeerde hij haar stoffelijke resten ongezien te dumpen, maar trok daarmee onvermijdelijk de aandacht van voorbijgangers. Hij sloeg hollend op de vlucht en werd na een zoektocht van nog eens twee dagen aangehouden.

De Japanner bekende meteen en vertelde ook dat het hem om haar vlees te doen was geweest.

Bij huiszoeking vonden rechercheurs vervolgens een door hem gemaakte geluidsopname van de moord en foto’s van zijn kannibalistisch bacchanaal. Op het oog meer dan voldoende bewijs voor een lange gevangenisstraf. Alleen kwam die er nooit.

Bankier
Sagawa’s vader, een invloedrijke bankier, had zijn getroebleerde kind al eens eerder de dans laten ontspringen. Op 23-jarige leeftijd werd zijn zoon beschuldigd van een poging tot verkrachting, nadat hij ’s nachts het appartement van een Duitse studente in Tokio was binnengedrongen. Veel geld deed die aanklacht van tafel verdwijnen. Gesuggereerd wordt wel dat de Japanner ook in Frankrijk zijn invloed heeft aangewend. Feit is dat al na ongeveer een week duidelijk werd dat de moordenaar van Renée Hartevelt krankzinnig zou worden verklaard en ontslagen van rechtsvervolging. Hij werd opgesloten in een Franse inrichting.

In 1984 wisten de ouders van Issei Sagawa de Franse autoriteiten er echter van te overtuigen dat hun zoon te ver van huis was, waarna hij werd overgeplaatst naar een psychiatrische kliniek in Japan. Eenmaal daar gearriveerd, bleek een psychiater bereid te verklaren dat hun kind niet gestoord was en daarom geen gevaar voor de samenleving vormde. Waarna hij na vijftien maanden de inrichting als vrij man mocht verlaten, protesten van Hartevelts nabestaanden ten spijt. Omdat hij niet opnieuw voor dezelfde misdaad kon worden aangeklaagd.

Wat daarna gebeurde, was minstens zo verbijsterend. De moordenaar groeide in Japan uit tot een cultfiguur, die kon leven van zijn eerdere misdaad omdat hij alle gelegenheid kreeg daarover te vertellen. Kannibalisme, hoewel van oudsher een taboe, bleek een te verleidelijk onderwerp om te laten liggen.

Hij schreef sindsdien boeken over het eten van mensenvlees, was te gast in tv-programma’s, stond in het theater, had een culinaire column in een Japans tijdschrift en kreeg enige tijd – hoe verzin je het – een eigen kookshow. Een vleesrestaurant deinsde er zelfs niet voor terug hem voor een commercial te benaderen.

Ook speelde Sagawa mee in pornofilms, waarin hij onder meer suggestief zijn tanden in een paar vrouwenbillen mocht zetten. Intussen wijdden in het buitenland de Rolling Stones (Too much blood) en The Stranglers (La folie) ijskoud nummers aan zijn wandaad.

Zijn carrière kreeg in 1991 een extra impuls door het succes van The silence of the lambs, met Anthony Hopkins als kannibaal. Sagawa’s roem verbleekte de afgelopen twintig jaar aanzienlijk.

Al flakkerde die in 2017 nog even op, door de geruchtmakende Franse documentaire Caniba over zijn leven. Daarin bekende Issei Sagawa nog altijd een obsessie te hebben voor het eten van mensenvlees. Met zijn dood is die nu eindelijk definitief voorbij.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-12-03 15:38 by Christiaan.

What the article say about the Stones

Meanwhile abroad, the Rolling Stones (Too much blood) and The Stranglers (Lafolie) devoted icy numbers to his misdeed.

In Englisch.....................

Today in De Telegraaf:

Deceased Murderer Dutch student remained free thanks to influential family
The Japanese Issei Sagawa (73) was a columnist, painter and porn actor, but above all the cannibalistic murderer of the Dutch student Renée Hartevelt. This week he passed away after an illness, unpunished for his misdeeds thanks to an influential father. Indigestible to relatives, the killer became a kind of cult figure in Japan.
MARCO WEIJERS
Renée Hartevelt studied at the prestigious Sorbonne in Paris in the early 1980s and wrote to her parents in Heemstede that she helped a fellow Japanese student with the German language. She did so out of pity for the unsightly Issei Sagawa, who was left out of the club of foreign students at 5 feet 10 inches. He said he fell in love instantly. One evening he invited the Dutchman to dinner at his apartment, where he made advances. Heavily offended by her rejection, he then produced a firearm.

Weapon
Under threat of that weapon, Hartevelt (24) was forced by Sagawa to recite German poems about God and death, according to the French judge who heard the case at the time in his memoirs. When Renée, with her back to him, did as the Japanese demanded, he shot her dead. “At first I wanted to call an ambulance. But then I thought, don't be silly, this is what you've been dreaming about all your life," the killer said.

Sagawa did not let it go with the brutal murder. The Japanese raped the lifeless victim and ate parts of Hartevelt's body in the days that followed. The killer later claimed that his fascination with eating human flesh started at the age of six. Fueled by the Grimm fairy tale Hansel & Gretel - in which the wicked witch is looking forward to a tender baby leg - and by the sight of bare girls' thighs.

Two days after the murder of Renée Hartevelt, Sagawa stuffed what was left of her body into two suitcases and made her way to the Bois de Boulogne by taxi. There he tried to dump her remains unseen, but inevitably attracted the attention of passers-by. He ran away and was apprehended after a two-day search.

The Japanese immediately confessed and also said that he had been after her meat.

During a house search, detectives then found an audio recording he had made of the murder and photos of his cannibalistic bacchanalism. More than enough evidence for a long prison sentence. Only it never came.

Banker
Sagawa's father, an influential banker, had let his troubled child escape once before. At the age of 23, his son was charged with attempted rape after breaking into the apartment of a German student in Tokyo at night. A lot of money made that charge disappear from the table. It is suggested that the Japanese also used his influence in France. The fact is that after about a week it became clear that the murderer of Renée Hartevelt would be declared insane and discharged from prosecution. He was imprisoned in a French institution.

However, in 1984, Issei Sagawa's parents convinced the French authorities that their son was too far from home, after which he was transferred to a psychiatric clinic in Japan. Once there, a psychiatrist was willing to declare that their child was not disturbed and therefore did not pose a threat to society. After which he was allowed to leave the institution as a free man after fifteen months, despite protests from Hartevelt's relatives. Because he couldn't be charged with the same crime again.

What happened next was just as mind-boggling. The killer grew into a cult figure in Japan, who was able to live off his previous crime because he was given every opportunity to tell about it. Cannibalism, while traditionally taboo, proved too tempting a subject to pass up.

Since then he has written books about eating human flesh, appeared on TV programmes, performed in theatres, had a culinary column in a Japanese magazine and for some time – how do you make it up – had his own cooking show. A meat restaurant did not even shy away from approaching him for a commercial.

Sagawa also played in porn films, in which he was allowed to suggestively sink his teeth into a pair of women's buttocks. Meanwhile abroad, the Rolling Stones (Too much blood) and The Stranglers (Lafolie) devoted icy numbers to his misdeed.

His career was given an extra boost in 1991 by the success of The Silence of the Lambs, starring Anthony Hopkins as a cannibal. Sagawa's fame has faded considerably over the past twenty years.

Although it flared up briefly in 2017, due to the controversial French documentary Caniba about his life. In it, Issei Sagawa still confessed

__________________________

Production sounds dated but I have always liked the track. It works. The album was an improvement over Emotional Rescue, had some interesting grooves and subject matter. Production sounds dated, as it does on a lot of albums of the era. Looking back, the wheels on the bus were getting wobbly, but the bus was still running. The bus fell apart on Dirty Work

Don't dig it.