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Turner68

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DandelionPowderman

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Turner68

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shortfatfanny

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Turner68
Am I mistaken or was this the first stones album with the lyrics on the sleeve?

I think Some Girls had a lyric sheet.

Anyway,DW is a very bad album.

I did some research, according to Rolling Stone magazine, Dirty Work is the first stones album in the US to have a lyric sheet.

You mean on the sleeve? Because there were other albums with a separate sheet with lyrics (TY fi).

according to rolling stone magazine it was the first in the US. i had an original of tattoo you in the US and it didn't have a lyric sheet.

reference: [www.rollingstone.com]

Hm, strange. Both my original vinyl and cassette came with the lyrics. Wonder why, too explicit lyrics for the US market?

Wonder why, too explicit lyrics for the US market?... Apple-pie



ROCKMAN

So I guess the question here is - did mick give up on the band because the album was so bad, or was the album so bad because mick had already given up?

The album is better than She´s The Boss and Primitive Cool anyway, not to mention Goddess. If Mick´s solo-career had turned out to be a real big thing, as he had expected,he´d left the Stones and would have become a total and full grown clown over the next years. His music probably would be very close to the shit Miley Cyrus or Taylor Swift produce. Meaningless, hollow junk.

Even if Dirty Work isnt their best record, even if it is so crappy like some people say (which of course it is NOT) it is still a rock-album at least. And it DOES HAVE great guitars.

Btw, just listened to Winning Ugly. It may not sound like the Stones we are accustomed to, but it is, imo, still a damn good song, it has groove, punch and it´s straight forward. I like it more than Miss You or Emotional rescue, no matter how huge the success of these songs was/is.

Not all is automatically bad, only because it has 80s production to it... I dont like 80s sound a lot, but still recognize a good song even when it´s from the 80s. For example, I dont like Duran Duran, their music means nothing to me, but I really do love Duran´s Wild Boys. It´s a big number, a true great one.

Bloody awful!

Winning Ugly, like Back To Zero, Hold Back, Rock And A Hard Place, Streets Of Love and quite a few others, is a horrible song. There's no getting around it. AND - the production makes it even worse. The Bubblegum Stones is what it sounds like.

Awful indeed.

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HMS
Btw, just listened to Winning Ugly...

why?

For a guitar players there is plently to enjoy on both Winning Ugly and Back To Zero. Keith's lovely licks on WU and Keith and Bobby's great weaving on BTZ.

The songs are crap, but let's not pretend there isn't anything to enjoy.

To me "Winning Ugly" as song is not a great song, but neither do I experience it as crap. Instead it has some attraction for me, more or less in the mould of a commercial Tamla Motown pop song from the 60s. Once again to me, it is one of the redeeming songs from a relatively weak album.

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Witness
To me "Winning Ugly" as song is not a great song, but neither do I experience it as crap. Instead it has some attraction for me, more or less in the mould of a commercial Tamla Motown pop song from the 60s. Once again to me, it is one of the redeeming songs from a relatively weak album.

I think most Stones fans have trouble with Winning Ugly (and Back To Zero) mainly because of the slick 80s production, not the song per se – myself included.

But it is indeed possible to ignore the production and find some goodies in there

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DandelionPowderman
For a guitar players there is plently to enjoy on both Winning Ugly and Back To Zero. Keith's lovely licks on WU and Keith and Bobby's great weaving on BTZ.

The songs are crap, but let's not pretend there isn't anything to enjoy.

That`s the way I listen to DW (when I listen). Every song has a nice moment mostly when Mick is not "singing", sometimes a bridge or a solo or just an intro or outtro, but all in all ...
I think there are many bands who would be proud to make a record like DW. But compared to the level of records the Stones have done it`s crap for sure.

Tom

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electricmud

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DandelionPowderman
For a guitar players there is plently to enjoy on both Winning Ugly and Back To Zero. Keith's lovely licks on WU and Keith and Bobby's great weaving on BTZ.

The songs are crap, but let's not pretend there isn't anything to enjoy.

That`s the way I listen to DW (when I listen). Every song has a nice moment mostly when Mick is not "singing", sometimes a bridge or a solo or just an intro or outtro, but all in all ...
I think there are many bands who would be proud to make a record like DW. But compared to the level of records the Stones have done it`s crap for sure.

Tom

Exactly! That's why I'm baffled by all the comments that it's «unlistenable» and «the worst record ever made» (not just by the Stones) etc.

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DandelionPowderman

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electricmud

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DandelionPowderman
For a guitar players there is plently to enjoy on both Winning Ugly and Back To Zero. Keith's lovely licks on WU and Keith and Bobby's great weaving on BTZ.

The songs are crap, but let's not pretend there isn't anything to enjoy.

That`s the way I listen to DW (when I listen). Every song has a nice moment mostly when Mick is not "singing", sometimes a bridge or a solo or just an intro or outtro, but all in all ...
I think there are many bands who would be proud to make a record like DW. But compared to the level of records the Stones have done it`s crap for sure.

Tom

Exactly! That's why I'm baffled by all the comments that it's «unlistenable» and «the worst record ever made» (not just by the Stones) etc.

I'm not baffled - except by DIRTY WORK. "I wanna be on top, forever on the up and damn the competition"?

Sure there are nice guitar runs in that song but it's garbage. That song makes Dance Little Sister equivalent to Gimme Shelter.

He he

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GasLightStreet

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DandelionPowderman

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electricmud

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DandelionPowderman
For a guitar players there is plently to enjoy on both Winning Ugly and Back To Zero. Keith's lovely licks on WU and Keith and Bobby's great weaving on BTZ.

The songs are crap, but let's not pretend there isn't anything to enjoy.

That`s the way I listen to DW (when I listen). Every song has a nice moment mostly when Mick is not "singing", sometimes a bridge or a solo or just an intro or outtro, but all in all ...
I think there are many bands who would be proud to make a record like DW. But compared to the level of records the Stones have done it`s crap for sure.

Tom

Exactly! That's why I'm baffled by all the comments that it's «unlistenable» and «the worst record ever made» (not just by the Stones) etc.

I'm not baffled - except by DIRTY WORK. "I wanna be on top, forever on the up and damn the competition"?

Sure there are nice guitar runs in that song but it's garbage. That song makes Dance Little Sister equivalent to Gimme Shelter.

i am not sure I completely agree. I think it is more that it makes "Indian girl" sound like "sympathy for the devil"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-09-30 17:52 by Turner68.

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Turner68

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GasLightStreet

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DandelionPowderman

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electricmud

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DandelionPowderman
For a guitar players there is plently to enjoy on both Winning Ugly and Back To Zero. Keith's lovely licks on WU and Keith and Bobby's great weaving on BTZ.

The songs are crap, but let's not pretend there isn't anything to enjoy.

That`s the way I listen to DW (when I listen). Every song has a nice moment mostly when Mick is not "singing", sometimes a bridge or a solo or just an intro or outtro, but all in all ...
I think there are many bands who would be proud to make a record like DW. But compared to the level of records the Stones have done it`s crap for sure.

Tom

Exactly! That's why I'm baffled by all the comments that it's «unlistenable» and «the worst record ever made» (not just by the Stones) etc.

I'm not baffled - except by DIRTY WORK. "I wanna be on top, forever on the up and damn the competition"?

Sure there are nice guitar runs in that song but it's garbage. That song makes Dance Little Sister equivalent to Gimme Shelter.

i am not sure I completely agree. I think it is more that it makes "Indian girl" sound like "sympathy for the devil"

It makes New Faces sound like Jumpin' Jack Flash.

Whatever the rhetorics be, I prefer "Winning Ugly" to ""One Hit", "Fight" and "Hold Back" (or "Rock And a Hard Place" and "Hold on to Your Hat" for that matter).

How DIRTY WORK should've been released:

The Rolling Stones HAD IT WITH YOU EP
1. Had It With You
2. Harlem Shuffle
3. Too Rude
4. Sleep Tonight

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GasLightStreet
How DIRTY WORK should've been released:

The Rolling Stones HAD IT WITH YOU EP
1. Had It With You
2. Harlem Shuffle
3. Too Rude
4. Sleep Tonight

+ You're Too Much
Strictly Memphis
Fight (early version)
One Hit (early version with Page throughout the track and more guitars in the mix)
Dirty Work (early version)
Treat Me Like A Fool
And: The entire Key To The Highway as a piano instrumental.

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DandelionPowderman
...Winning Ugly and Back To Zero...

The songs are crap, but let's not pretend there isn't anything to enjoy.

@#$%& brought Germany out of poverty, you can always find 'something' that isn't awful. Still, a bad song remains a bad song.

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LeonidP

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DandelionPowderman
...Winning Ugly and Back To Zero...

The songs are crap, but let's not pretend there isn't anything to enjoy.

@#$%& brought Germany out of poverty, you can always find 'something' that isn't awful. Still, a bad song remains a bad song.

He he True, but for me there are plenty to enjoy in some bad Stones songs just the same.

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DandelionPowderman

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GasLightStreet
How DIRTY WORK should've been released:

The Rolling Stones HAD IT WITH YOU EP
1. Had It With You
2. Harlem Shuffle
3. Too Rude
4. Sleep Tonight

+ You're Too Much
Strictly Memphis
Fight (early version)
One Hit (early version with Page throughout the track and more guitars in the mix)
Dirty Work (early version)
Treat Me Like A Fool
And: The entire Key To The Highway as a piano instrumental.

The second quote was really interesting, as far as I have not heard any of those. When I reflect over how much the band ruined TATTOO YOU's "Hang Fire", in contrast to one good earlier version, these suggestions might have a potential for a better album, instead of the usual proposal to shorten it only.

Added: Oh, I forgot, in the context of DIRTY WORK, I would have missed "Winning Ugly" though



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015-09-30 20:19 by Witness.

I love Hang Fire, in all its incarnations.

The songs I mentioned are all included on the bootleg "Crushed Pearl". Except for Key To The Highway, that was just a wish

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DandelionPowderman
I love Hang Fire, in all its incarnations.

The songs I mentioned are all included on the bootleg "Crushed Pearl". Except for Key To The Highway, that was just a wish

Well, thank you for the info. However, both for the time being and in the past, I have only played vinyl, and still that it is what I do. And I have not bought bootlegs for quite a long time.

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DandelionPowderman

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LeonidP

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DandelionPowderman
...Winning Ugly and Back To Zero...

The songs are crap, but let's not pretend there isn't anything to enjoy.

@#$%& brought Germany out of poverty, you can always find 'something' that isn't awful. Still, a bad song remains a bad song.

He he True, but for me there are plenty to enjoy in some bad Stones songs just the same.

Possibly but even though generally the songs are far below the Stones standard, what really makes it the bottom for me are the embarrassingly horrible lyrics. Examples like "got to get into a fight, can't get out of it" ... "i was brought up to cheat so long as the ref wasn't looking" (can you get more cliche?), "back to zero", "let somebody do your dirty work, find some loser find some jerk" ... there are so many lines that just make me cringe -- and although there are moments like that from several other albums, here it is all in one place!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-10-01 03:22 by LeonidP.

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LeonidP

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DandelionPowderman

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LeonidP

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DandelionPowderman
...Winning Ugly and Back To Zero...

The songs are crap, but let's not pretend there isn't anything to enjoy.

@#$%& brought Germany out of poverty, you can always find 'something' that isn't awful. Still, a bad song remains a bad song.

He he True, but for me there are plenty to enjoy in some bad Stones songs just the same.

Possibly but even though generally the songs are far below the Stones standard, what really makes it the bottom for me are the embarrassingly horrible lyrics. Examples like "got to get into a fight, can't get out of it" ... "i was brought up to cheat so long as the ref wasn't looking" (can you get more cliche?), "back to zero", "let somebody do your dirty work, find some loser find some jerk" ... there are so many lines that just make me cringe -- and although there are moments like that from several other albums, here it is all in one place!

I am realizing as we do these "album talks" that the decline the Stones' lyric quality is truly shocking - much worse than any other aspect of their songwriting.

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Turner68

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LeonidP

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DandelionPowderman

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LeonidP

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DandelionPowderman
...Winning Ugly and Back To Zero...

The songs are crap, but let's not pretend there isn't anything to enjoy.

@#$%& brought Germany out of poverty, you can always find 'something' that isn't awful. Still, a bad song remains a bad song.

He he True, but for me there are plenty to enjoy in some bad Stones songs just the same.

Possibly but even though generally the songs are far below the Stones standard, what really makes it the bottom for me are the embarrassingly horrible lyrics. Examples like "got to get into a fight, can't get out of it" ... "i was brought up to cheat so long as the ref wasn't looking" (can you get more cliche?), "back to zero", "let somebody do your dirty work, find some loser find some jerk" ... there are so many lines that just make me cringe -- and although there are moments like that from several other albums, here it is all in one place!

I am realizing as we do these "album talks" that the decline the Stones' lyric quality is truly shocking - much worse than any other aspect of their songwriting.

I disagree. I think Mick went thru a brain fart faze. I love his lyrics, for example, on the last 3 Stones albums ... Voodoo, Bridges, Bigger Bang.

** -- Edit ** exceptions are always there, of course. I agree with many, the all time worst Stones lyric is "sharks will cry"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-10-01 18:07 by LeonidP.

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HMS
The album is better than She´s The Boss and Primitive Cool anyway,. .

I don't agree with that at all.