Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
Swayed1967

Quote
HMS
How can DW be a "disaster" when Harlem Shuffle and Sleep Tonight are "gems and great". These songs are gems indeed, but only the tip of the iceberg - DW has songs even better than HS & ST.

HMS - a ‘Dirty Work’ troll or one of those ‘it takes all kinds’ types? Whatever, this album was a rip-off.

Had it wichu and Fight are not cringeworthy in the way Hold Back, Back to Zero and Dirty Work are but they’re lame & Jurassic and together they add up to five very unnecessary songs, an entire side that offers no value whatsoever. That was unprecedented at the time. Give me half my money back, Mick, or preferably half of EVERYTHING YOU OWN! However, after nearly thirty years of loathing ‘Winning Ugly’ and lumping it with the cringeworthy songs abovementioned, I’m now of the opinion that it’s sneaky good, possibly the third strongest song on the album, and the reason I do not demand a full refund.

(To Mick & Keith & Ron: you're welcome but please no more 'sneaky good' songs, yeah?)

Why on earth is Dirty Work, the song, cringeworthy? Great sound, great playing and singing, plus even an interesting, funky ending.

Agree with everything Maxtil and Turner wrote above. I'll just add that I think you're one who likes to pick the cherries out of the dung (I mean that in a good way) but for me good ‘sound’ or ‘evidence of weaving’ can’t salvage mediocre songwriting. And when Jagger wails ‘You let somebody do the dirty work...’ yes, it’s painful to listen to and I do cringe.

Quote
Swayed1967

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
Swayed1967

Quote
HMS
How can DW be a "disaster" when Harlem Shuffle and Sleep Tonight are "gems and great". These songs are gems indeed, but only the tip of the iceberg - DW has songs even better than HS & ST.

HMS - a ‘Dirty Work’ troll or one of those ‘it takes all kinds’ types? Whatever, this album was a rip-off.

Had it wichu and Fight are not cringeworthy in the way Hold Back, Back to Zero and Dirty Work are but they’re lame & Jurassic and together they add up to five very unnecessary songs, an entire side that offers no value whatsoever. That was unprecedented at the time. Give me half my money back, Mick, or preferably half of EVERYTHING YOU OWN! However, after nearly thirty years of loathing ‘Winning Ugly’ and lumping it with the cringeworthy songs abovementioned, I’m now of the opinion that it’s sneaky good, possibly the third strongest song on the album, and the reason I do not demand a full refund.

(To Mick & Keith & Ron: you're welcome but please no more 'sneaky good' songs, yeah?)

Why on earth is Dirty Work, the song, cringeworthy? Great sound, great playing and singing, plus even an interesting, funky ending.

Agree with everything Maxtil and Turner wrote above. I'll just add that I think you're one who likes to pick the cherries out of the dung (I mean that in a good way) but for me good ‘sound’ or ‘evidence of weaving’ can’t salvage mediocre songwriting. And when Jagger wails ‘You let somebody do the dirty work...’ yes, it’s painful to listen to and I do cringe.

Taken in a good way, as well Actually, I suppose I am.

What I don't get is why Mick similar singing on Brussels Affair is great, while it's cringeworthy here. It's shouting just the same

IMO every not-born-on-Jamaica-musician should stay away from reggae...I'm Listening at 'Too rude' here....winning ugly spinning right now..sounds like a song from Dylans horrible album Empire Burlesque...What's the rush...

2 1 2 0

Quote
Come On
IMO every not-born-on-Jamaica-musician should stay away from reggae...I'm Listening at 'Too rude' here....winning ugly spinning right now..sounds like a song from Dylans horrible album Empire Burlesque...What's the rush...

You mean the nice album which features Mick Taylor and Ronnie Wood?

Keith has lived on Jamaica since 1973, though, and the very same year the Stones did their first reggae track «I Got A Letter», so he is probably backing you up on that

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
Swayed1967

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
Swayed1967

Quote
HMS
How can DW be a "disaster" when Harlem Shuffle and Sleep Tonight are "gems and great". These songs are gems indeed, but only the tip of the iceberg - DW has songs even better than HS & ST.

HMS - a ‘Dirty Work’ troll or one of those ‘it takes all kinds’ types? Whatever, this album was a rip-off.

Had it wichu and Fight are not cringeworthy in the way Hold Back, Back to Zero and Dirty Work are but they’re lame & Jurassic and together they add up to five very unnecessary songs, an entire side that offers no value whatsoever. That was unprecedented at the time. Give me half my money back, Mick, or preferably half of EVERYTHING YOU OWN! However, after nearly thirty years of loathing ‘Winning Ugly’ and lumping it with the cringeworthy songs abovementioned, I’m now of the opinion that it’s sneaky good, possibly the third strongest song on the album, and the reason I do not demand a full refund.

(To Mick & Keith & Ron: you're welcome but please no more 'sneaky good' songs, yeah?)

Why on earth is Dirty Work, the song, cringeworthy? Great sound, great playing and singing, plus even an interesting, funky ending.

Agree with everything Maxtil and Turner wrote above. I'll just add that I think you're one who likes to pick the cherries out of the dung (I mean that in a good way) but for me good ‘sound’ or ‘evidence of weaving’ can’t salvage mediocre songwriting. And when Jagger wails ‘You let somebody do the dirty work...’ yes, it’s painful to listen to and I do cringe.

Taken in a good way, as well Actually, I suppose I am.

What I don't get is why Mick similar singing on Brussels Affair is great, while it's cringeworthy here. It's shouting just the same

because 80s shouting is worse than 70s shouting!! :-)

i personally don't like the singing on much of the 72 and 73 tours, or the brussels affair. i don't think there was a tour since 1969/70 where mick sang well until maybe 81 or 89.

on record, however, it's different. he laid down some amazing vocal performances throughout those years. none of them were on dirty work, though, except for harlem shuffle.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-10-08 12:22 by Turner68.

Quote
Turner68

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
Swayed1967

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
Swayed1967

Quote
HMS
How can DW be a "disaster" when Harlem Shuffle and Sleep Tonight are "gems and great". These songs are gems indeed, but only the tip of the iceberg - DW has songs even better than HS & ST.

HMS - a ‘Dirty Work’ troll or one of those ‘it takes all kinds’ types? Whatever, this album was a rip-off.

Had it wichu and Fight are not cringeworthy in the way Hold Back, Back to Zero and Dirty Work are but they’re lame & Jurassic and together they add up to five very unnecessary songs, an entire side that offers no value whatsoever. That was unprecedented at the time. Give me half my money back, Mick, or preferably half of EVERYTHING YOU OWN! However, after nearly thirty years of loathing ‘Winning Ugly’ and lumping it with the cringeworthy songs abovementioned, I’m now of the opinion that it’s sneaky good, possibly the third strongest song on the album, and the reason I do not demand a full refund.

(To Mick & Keith & Ron: you're welcome but please no more 'sneaky good' songs, yeah?)

Why on earth is Dirty Work, the song, cringeworthy? Great sound, great playing and singing, plus even an interesting, funky ending.

Agree with everything Maxtil and Turner wrote above. I'll just add that I think you're one who likes to pick the cherries out of the dung (I mean that in a good way) but for me good ‘sound’ or ‘evidence of weaving’ can’t salvage mediocre songwriting. And when Jagger wails ‘You let somebody do the dirty work...’ yes, it’s painful to listen to and I do cringe.

Taken in a good way, as well Actually, I suppose I am.

What I don't get is why Mick similar singing on Brussels Affair is great, while it's cringeworthy here. It's shouting just the same

because 80s shouting is worse than 70s shouting!! :-)

i personally don't like the singing on much of the 72 and 73 tours, or the brussels affair. i don't think there was a tour since 1969/70 where mick sang well until maybe 81 or 89.

on record, however, it's different. he laid down some amazing vocal performances throughout those years. none of them were on dirty work, though, except for harlem shuffle.

That was my point. Fans are sometimes a bit like a herd. Sometimes one just needs to stop and listen.

The 1970/71 shows feature way better singing than the 1972/73 tours, imo (Save The Marquee show).

yep.

Empire Burlesque a "terrible album". You must be joking, it´s one of Dylan´s best, even if the production is a bit polished. He´s done lots of worse albums, imo. So many great songs on that album. Gotta listen to it as soon as possible. Havent done that for a very long time.

Mick was shouting, barking, screaming and yelling the most part of the 70s (listen for expample to L.A. Forum and you know what I mean), nobody felt the need to complain, so what´s the difference between 70s and 80s-screaming? Imo, the 80s-screaming on Dirty Work had even more power. Dirty Work is without doubt the most powerful album the Stones ever recorded. Compared to that SG, ER & TY appear like sissy-music. What power, rage, anger, violence! These emotions were always a big and important part in Stones-music, until they lost it somewhere in the 70s. What a thrill it would have been to hear Dirty Work performed live.

He shouted live but tried to sing in the studio in the 70s. Imagine him doing beast of burden with his "dirty work" shout!

I wouldn't be surprised to hear that Mick had given up on the stones before dirty work was recorded. He doesn't sound like he was trying nor
Are the lyrics up to even his low 80s standards.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-10-08 12:37 by Turner68.

Quote
Turner68
He shouted live but tried to sing in the studio in the 70s. Imagine him doing beast of burden with his "dirty work" shout!

I wouldn't be surprised to hear that Mick had given up on the stones before dirty work was recorded. He doesn't sound like he was trying nor
Are the lyrics up to even his low 80s standards.

Crazy Mama, Hey Negrita, Hand Of Fate, Lies and Respectable all gave a clear message on what was on the way, though...

The lyrics on Dirty Work are not much better or worse than the lyrics on most albums post-Black And Blue, imo. I dont care much about the lyrics anyway, music comes first. Their lyrics were best in the 60s and early 70s. Listen to Emotional Rescue (the album), most part is lyrical wasteland. The days of "Family", "Jigsaw Puzzle" etc are long gone.

Guys, you are discussing so hard on this album. Why don't you take a look at the CD you have in possession and answer two simple questions I asked a couple of days ago?
[www.iorr.org]

Quote
HMS
The lyrics on Dirty Work are not much better or worse than the lyrics on most albums post-Black And Blue, imo. I dont care much about the lyrics anyway, music comes first. Their lyrics were best in the 60s and early 70s. Listen to Emotional Rescue (the album), most part is lyrical wasteland. The days of "Family", "Jigsaw Puzzle" etc are long gone.

That's some interesting lyrics...

Listen to Emotional Rescue (the album), most part is lyrical wasteland.

Are you saying "just in a few days you'll back to your school- i'll be sittin round swimming pool"is not a great lyric?

Quote
Swayed1967
... but for me good ‘sound’ or ‘evidence of weaving’ can’t salvage mediocre songwriting. And when Jagger wails ‘You let somebody do the dirty work...’ yes, it’s painful to listen to and I do cringe.

Not sure I agree. If it were mediocre songwriting, I could stomach some of those songs, but let's be honest, songs like Winning Ugly, Hold Back, Fight, Back To Zero ... those are very poor songwriting efforts. And I agree about Dirty Work, the lyrics are painful to listen to.

Quote
Chris Fountain
Listen to Emotional Rescue (the album), most part is lyrical wasteland.

Are you saying "just in a few days you'll back to your school- i'll be sittin round swimming pool"is not a great lyric?

Agree, some cringe-worthy lyrical moments on ER for sure, but at least the songs are very good, musically. Charlie's drumming is fantastic throughout!

Quote
LeonidP

Quote
Chris Fountain
Listen to Emotional Rescue (the album), most part is lyrical wasteland.

Are you saying "just in a few days you'll back to your school- i'll be sittin round swimming pool"is not a great lyric?

Agree, some cringe-worthy lyrical moments on ER for sure, but at least the songs are very good, musically. Charlie's drumming is fantastic throughout!

Thanks for the intrisic thoughts. I have defended ER and Flowers for years.

Quote
Chris Fountain

Quote
LeonidP

Quote
Chris Fountain
Listen to Emotional Rescue (the album), most part is lyrical wasteland.

Are you saying "just in a few days you'll back to your school- i'll be sittin round swimming pool"is not a great lyric?

Agree, some cringe-worthy lyrical moments on ER for sure, but at least the songs are very good, musically. Charlie's drumming is fantastic throughout!

Thanks for the intrisic thoughts. I have defended ER and Flowers for years.

Defend Flowers? I don't know that I've seen people bash that one. It has the great Take It Or Leave It, and the superb Sittin' On A Fence (w/ one of my favorite guitar solos!). It needs no defending!

Quote
LeonidP

Quote
Chris Fountain

Quote
LeonidP

Quote
Chris Fountain
Listen to Emotional Rescue (the album), most part is lyrical wasteland.

Are you saying "just in a few days you'll back to your school- i'll be sittin round swimming pool"is not a great lyric?

Agree, some cringe-worthy lyrical moments on ER for sure, but at least the songs are very good, musically. Charlie's drumming is fantastic throughout!

Thanks for the intrisic thoughts. I have defended ER and Flowers for years.

Defend Flowers? I don't know that I've seen people bash that one. It has the great Take It Or Leave It, and the superb Sittin' On A Fence (w/ one of my favorite guitar solos!). It needs no defending!

You mean to tell me that I've been calling it Dead Flowers all these years but it's really Defend Flowers? Sonofabitch that's rough.

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
Turner68
He shouted live but tried to sing in the studio in the 70s. Imagine him doing beast of burden with his "dirty work" shout!

I wouldn't be surprised to hear that Mick had given up on the stones before dirty work was recorded. He doesn't sound like he was trying nor
Are the lyrics up to even his low 80s standards.

Crazy Mama, Hey Negrita, Hand Of Fate, Lies and Respectable all gave a clear message on what was on the way, though...

Touche'

I like his singing on those songs. It's a slightly lower register than he usually uses, but it definitely fits the songs. His singing on HOF, in particular, is brilliant. You could argue Crazy Mama is a bit over the top but, again, it kind of fits the subject matter.

Quote
liddas
Don't care what other people here think, but DW is a good album.

It could have been great, given what was left out. Yet it remains a good album.

For sure I played to death when it was released, and still listen to it a lot now.

Production gets slammed often, but it stood the test of time better than Steel Wheels or Voodoo Lounge.

Of course, it adds nothing to the Stones' legacy and there are at least 15 other Stones albums that I like more. But one thing is to say that DW ain't no Exile - no discussion, we all agree, not even close - another is to say DW is a bad album, which it is not.

C

Quote
treaclefingers

name 2 good songs on Dirty Work. If you say, name one, invariably people will throw One Hit to the Body at you. OK, maybe that would have worked on another album.

Moving here to save the Undercover thread from my obscene opinions on DW!

So to answer your question, much more than 2 good songs on DW.

The best of the lot is Sleep Tonigh, truly a wonderful song for me.

Had it with you is very good.

The rest is at least good, save Back to zero.

Back to Zero ain't bad either, but sounds out of context.

C

Evaluated on a scale from 0 - 10, seen from now, for instance:

"One Hit (to the Body)" 3
"Fight" 1,5
"Harlem Shuffle" 8
"Hold Back" 4,5
"Too Rude" 7
"Winning Ugly" 8
"Back to Zero" 6,5
"Dirty Work" 7
"Had It with You" 7,5
"Sleep Tonight" 8

One Hit (to the Body): 3
Fight: 1
Harlem Shuffle: 7
Hold Back: -3
Too Rude: 3
Winning Ugly: 1
Back to Zero: 1
Dirty Work: 6
Had it with You: 8
Sleep Tonight: 4

Mathijs

Let's try this again

"One Hit (to the Body)" 7
"Fight" 6
"Harlem Shuffle" 8
"Hold Back" 4
"Too Rude" 7
"Winning Ugly" 6
"Back to Zero" 5
"Dirty Work" 8
"Had It with You" 9
"Sleep Tonight" 8
"Key To The Highway" 9

"One Hit (to the Body)" 8
"Fight" 6
"Harlem Shuffle" 7
"Hold Back" 3
"Too Rude" 5
"Winning Ugly" 5
"Back to Zero" 3
"Dirty Work" 6
"Had It with You" 6
"Sleep Tonight" 7

I don't hate the album...Hold Back and Back To Zero are the only two unlistenable songs to me, although Mick's vocal style throughout is generally appalling.

"One Hit (to the Body)" 9
"Fight" 2
"Harlem Shuffle" 7
"Hold Back" 0
"Too Rude" 1
"Winning Ugly" 6
"Back to Zero" -10000000000
"Dirty Work" 1
"Had It with You" 1
"Sleep Tonight" 7

Los of contributing stars/musicians!

One Hit (To The Body) 10
Fight 3
Harlem Shuffle 10
Hold Back 1
Too Rude 2
Winning Ugly 3
Back To Zero 9
Dirty Work 9
Had It With You 9
Sleep Tonight 7
(Key To The Highway 9)