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buttons67
a lot of rolling stones music is way better than its reputation.

they are a very underrated band.

I decided to start every season with a Stones album. The 2nd season started with Their Satanic Majesties Request and ended with the whole Jagger's solo career.
The next season will probably start with Black and Blue or Goats Head Soup.

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buttons67
a lot of rolling stones music is way better than its reputation.

Except for Dirty Work of course, that is shite anyway you look at it.

Mathijs

No one here to defend Dirty Work now...

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Stoneage
No one here to defend Dirty Work now...

Dirty Work has some moments, like One Hit to the Body, the guitars in Fight and some grooves. Yet, Charlie Watts and Bill Wyman are missing on several songs.
The listener recognizes, that the relationship between the men in the band was on a low point while they were in the studio. Huge parts of the album transport a negative energy.

probably their last album that sounded like an album. some fillers but overall a really good album.

What surprised me when I dwelled deep into Undercover was how united the band still seemed to be at that time. Often it’s said that Mick & Keith were fighting already during U sessions, but for example the demo sessions for Wanna Hold You tell a very different story. They’re laughing and jamming together just like in the old days.

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Stoneage
No one here to defend Dirty Work now...

I'll temp for HMS. Half of DW is decent. Most of Undercover is excellent

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padre69
What surprised me when I dwelled deep into Undercover was how united the band still seemed to be at that time. Often it’s said that Mick & Keith were fighting already during U sessions, but for example the demo sessions for Wanna Hold You tell a very different story. They’re laughing and jamming together just like in the old days.

There are recordings from the DW-sessions (Broken Hearts For Me And You springs to mind) that documents the same

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DandelionPowderman

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Stoneage
No one here to defend Dirty Work now...

I'll temp for HMS. Half of DW is decent. Most of Undercover is excellent

A difference between DW and U is that on the former the distinction between the good songs and the bad ones is rather clear, whereas that distinction is more fuzzy on the latter. After all these years I tend to slightly prefer U over DW, but that hasn't always been the case for me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-07-24 19:44 by SomeGuy.

I've always considered Undercover to be the last good Stones album from start to finish. Dirty Work was a huge disappointment after waiting for long three years for a new album. Three years. Long, haha! Dirty Work's eighties mixing was horrible and Back to Zero? Perhaps I say nothing about that... Albums after Undercover do have some great songs but they also include too many fillers.

U sounds like the last 'real' Stones album, sleazy, tough, and playing tight together like they meant it. After that those elements were rarely all in place, and certainly not for a complete album.

By the way, where is HMS?

-



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2019-07-25 02:50 by Stoneage.

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windmelody

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Stoneage
No one here to defend Dirty Work now...

Dirty Work has some moments, like One Hit to the Body, the guitars in Fight and some grooves. Yet, Charlie Watts and Bill Wyman are missing on several songs.
The listener recognizes, that the relationship between the men in the band was on a low point while they were in the studio. Huge parts of the album transport a negative energy.

That album is a farce. Harlem Shuffle, sonically, fits, but quality wise, it's out of place. That album is just terrible. It should've never been released.

I can't stand TSMR but at least is has some good songs on it in terms of being a solid EP. DW doesn't even equate.

Critically as a Stones fan I never speak of DIRTY WORK to anyone when they ask me about the Stones. If that era, post-TATTOO YOU comes up, I mention UNDERCOVER, REWIND and STEEL WHEELS. I explain to people that U is their last blast of being a creative moving forward band even though it lacks any kind of 'classic' Stones aura to it.

U closes a chapter, really, with their songwriting and production, with Ronnie Wood as well as their recording in Paris.

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GasLightStreet

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windmelody

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Stoneage
No one here to defend Dirty Work now...

Dirty Work has some moments, like One Hit to the Body, the guitars in Fight and some grooves. Yet, Charlie Watts and Bill Wyman are missing on several songs.
The listener recognizes, that the relationship between the men in the band was on a low point while they were in the studio. Huge parts of the album transport a negative energy.

That album is a farce. Harlem Shuffle, sonically, fits, but quality wise, it's out of place. That album is just terrible. It should've never been released.

I can't stand TSMR but at least is has some good songs on it in terms of being a solid EP. DW doesn't even equate.

Critically as a Stones fan I never speak of DIRTY WORK to anyone when they ask me about the Stones. If that era, post-TATTOO YOU comes up, I mention UNDERCOVER, REWIND and STEEL WHEELS. I explain to people that U is their last blast of being a creative moving forward band even though it lacks any kind of 'classic' Stones aura to it.

U closes a chapter, really, with their songwriting and production, with Ronnie Wood as well as their recording in Paris.

TSMR is not a bad album but it could've been so much better if somebody else had produced the album. DW is the low point of their career and I would've scrapped at least Harlem Shuffle, Too Rude, Winning Ugly, Back To Zero and perhaps also main song Dirty Work from the LP.

And you said it well that Undercover closes the chapter. It's dividing their career in two halves. Post-Undercover era to me is not that interesting musically. Especially Voodoo Lounge, Bridges to Babylon and Bigger Bang are way too long albums (damn CD era).



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2019-07-25 11:31 by Single Malt.

Don't care what other people here think, but DW is a good album.

It could have been great, given what was left out. Yet it remains a good album.

For sure I played to death when it was released, and still listen to it a lot now.

Production gets slammed often, but it stood the test of time better than Steel Wheels or Voodoo Lounge.

Of course, it adds nothing to the Stones' legacy and there are at least 15 other Stones albums that I like more. But one thing is to say that DW ain't no Exile - no discussion, we all agree, not even close - another is to say DW is a bad album, which it is not.

C

As Bill Wyman said about Dirty Work at the time:
-the input of Mick is lacking;
-half of the album is good, the other half isn't.

I can agree with that. What did bother me, however, is that this -and the much worse She's The Boss- was the start of that 80s abrasive singing style that Mick adopted and luckily got out of his system again by the time Steel Wheels was being made.
Which songs the good ones are and which the bad ones may well be a personal thing.
I was happy when DW came out after the dismal solo misadventure of Mick. DW was like choosing the Keith camp as it were, I remember that Keith was furious when Mick didn't want to tour, when DW was "made for touring" according to Keith.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-07-25 15:37 by SomeGuy.

Its not up to standards of 68 -73

I completely sucks !

Its not up to standards of 68 -73

I completely sucks !

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steffiestones
Its not up to standards of 68 -73

I completely sucks !

Now that's harsh...
Of course it's not...it was ten years later...

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SomeGuy
As Bill Wyman said about Dirty Work at the time:
-the input of Mick is lacking;
-half of the album is good, the other half isn't.

I can agree with that. What did bother me, however, is that this -and the much worse She's The Boss- was the start of that 80s abrasive singing style that Mick adopted and luckily got out of his system again by the time Steel Wheels was being made.
Which songs the good ones are and which the bad ones may well be a personal thing.
I was happy when DW came out after the dismal solo misadventure of Mick. DW was like choosing the Keith camp as it were, I remember that Keith was furious when Mick didn't want to tour, when DW was "made for touring" according to Keith.

What I found amusing about the much-hyped first Jagger solo effort is that the opening track Lonely at the Top is a Jagger/Richards composition!

"I'll be in my basement room with a needle and a spoon."

DW sounds as alien a Stones-albums as "Bigger Bang".
I think even if the songs had been better for DW, it still would have been terrible. The drums sound terrible, and may not even be Charlie. The cuts are either Keith/Ron jams where Jagger makes it obvious that he is not interested. "One Hit" being an exception. But Hold Back and Fight are tuneless mid-range trash. The other songs are Jagger working out kinks towards his solo career sound.

I just thought this: if they could have done it contractually they should have released DW sort of like "Edward": a jam of Stones related half truths.

<The other songs are Jagger working out kinks towards his solo career sound>

LOL

Like Too Rude, Sleep Tonight, Harlem Shuffle, Had It With You and the title track?

Fight, the demo, was actually pretty good, imo, without all the barking and shouting.

I'm pretty sure the only tracks where Charlie is MIA are TR and ST, possibly one more.

Dirty Work is way above both Jagger's solo albums of the 80s. Besides, it has Jimmy Page on it!
The songs I don't like are Fight, Hold Back, Too Rude and Winning Ugly. The rest is reasonably good to excellent. There!

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liddas
Don't care what other people here think, but DW is a good album.
C

I likewise don't care what others think, but it is a horrible album.

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It could have been great, given what was left out. Yet it remains a good album.

Nah.

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Production gets slammed often, but it stood the test of time better than Steel Wheels or Voodoo Lounge.

Not even close - and Steel Wheels is near the bottom of my Stones album list but it is far better than DW.

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.. another is to say DW is a bad album, which it is not.

Agree w/ that. Not 'bad' but 'terrible'. It really is, by far, their worst album. Overall the songs are bad, and to make it worse, the lyrics in most songs are flat out embarrassing.

Three out of five stars for DW on AllMusic Guide, given by both the reviewer and the 565 readers who posted.

But hey, I actually know people who think that ALL Stones albums are awful. Apparently, either way, it's not against the law

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LeonidP

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.. another is to say DW is a bad album, which it is not.

Agree w/ that. Not 'bad' but 'terrible'. It really is, by far, their worst album. Overall the songs are bad, and to make it worse, the lyrics in most songs are flat out embarrassing.

I've posted this before, but just some examples off the top of my head:

"got to get info a fight, can't get out of it"
"you better get some sleep tonight, all you gotta do is close your eyes"
"I want to be on top ... damn the competition"
"I was brought up to cheat, So long as the referee wasn't looking"
Back to Zero ... where to begin, the entire song is full of embarrassing lyrics - even Prince's 1999 is better.
"let somebody do the dirty work, Find some loser, find some jerk" Really? Let's Work lyrics are actually better than this. Okay, maybe not, but it's close.

The only song I actually love is Too Rude, and they didn't even write that one.

I guess you can find embarrassing lyrics in a lot of Stones songs, or, in popular music as a whole. That's why it's popular music.

Here's another real embarrassing one: Hoo Hoo Hoo Hoo Hoo Hoo Hoo Hoo Hoo.

Or what to think of this: Hoo Hooooo Hoo Hooooo.

Anyway, this thread isn't about DW, so we digress a bit.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019-07-26 20:07 by SomeGuy.

Dirty Work the worst album of all time,Undercover is alsov terrible.And not to forget Bridges to Babylon,tsmr ,Between the buttons,voodoo lounge.All of these are from mediocre to bad

'The Brussels affair' shows the real Stones Magic , Dirty work and Rescue dont even catch a glimpse of it !

After having read some of these posts, I remain silent about them, but want instead to my show my appreciation of the contents of UNDERCOVER within a scale from 0 to 10.
The latest and probably the last great Rolling Stones studio album.

Undercover Of the Night 10* (read as 10 plus one star)
She Was Hot 10
Tie You Up (the Pain of Love) 10
Wanna Hold You 7.5
Feel On Baby 8.5
Too Much Blood 8.5
Pretty Beat Up 8.5
Too Tough 8.5
All the Way Down 8.5
It Must Be Hell 8.5

(Where I gave 8.5, I had to choose between 8.5 and 9.)