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stargroover
They are both great albums.The only difference is that Keef's album contains no album fillers.Every track on Crosseyed Heart is a gem,and vocally Keef is as strong as ever.

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stargroover
They are both great albums.The only difference is that Keef's album contains no album fillers.Every track on Crosseyed Heart is a gem,and vocally Keef is as strong as ever.

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Hairball
You know somethings wrong with ABB when even Keith says he doesn't like it,
but most of us knew there was something very wrong within several listens.
And good old Keith is a very good sport - he had to play Streets of Love live for an entire tour!!!

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Doxa

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mr_dja



I've heard Keith say that it's his job to inspire Mick.

I think you hit the nail here. The reason for the downhill for Stones music in quality and quantity for the last 35 years or so: Keith just doesn't inspire Mick any longer. I think the problem was obvious by the time of making EMOTIONAL RSECUE but it could be that the hailed EXILE was teh last time The Glimmer Twins had a creative respect towards each other - or Mick was actually paying attention into what Keith did,and being even excited about it.

Usually this is seen that the reason is that Mick and Keith had developed very different tastes for what they consider good music; Mick being a trend follower, and Keith a rootsman (which is to say: Keith creatively stopped to the musical premises of EXILE, Mick not). That partly is true, but the style or a genre of music is not the whole point: the question is has someone something to say, that is, can one form inspiring, great music from a given genre? If one digs blues or country that alone will not constitute great, authentic music - something the Stones actually did during their heyday (The Big Four), and excelled and completed in EXILE.

So if we consider this from Mick's point of view - not popular here - after EXILE or so Keith's music just weren't exciting for him - just repitive and seemingly going downhill in quality (and in quantity as well). And remember: Mick had seen what this man once was - how great, unique, fresh stuff he could have come up with. But he also saw and understood the change in creativity. As the 70's go further, it was clear that there were no any longer any gimmesheltesr, honkytonkwomens or streetfightingmans to be born. There were half-baked riffs saying the same thing over and again, the recording processes just taking longer and longer, when a certain right 'feel' was waited to be come, and the result of all that time, money and drugs wasted would be something as mind-blowing as "Dance Little Sister".

I don't think the music in CROSSEYED HEART means much to Jagger (or, like hoped here, "open his eyes"). I guess for him it is stuff he has seen Keith doing for decades (he probably knows this man musically better than anyone else). He once commented TALK IS CHEAP or MAIN OFFENDER by a telling remark that it sounds the same as the half-finished songs Keith does for the Stones. Probably he is just pleased that Keith get it out by himself and he doesn't need to bother himself with it...

It is no any wonder that their most fruitful colloboration of the last decades happens to be the one on which Keith made his contribution almost 40 years earlier - Jagger sounds surprisingly inspired in "Plundered My Soul", and probably put more effort into it than to any Keith song for ages.

So this was just some food for thought to those who see the artistic downhill of the Stones solely as a fault of Mick Jagger, and if Keith had more say on things, Mick would listen him more, etc the things would have been better or even so great again. Bullshit. The guy just stopped delivering the goods. It takes two to a tango..

- Doxa

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Roll73
A Bigger Bang's been out for 10 odd years - Crosseyed Heart for a couple of months.

I've listened to CH at least 3 times as much in the last month as I have ABB in 10 years.

This isn't a maths question - just an observation. Either that's reason to be hopeful or to think - should they even bother?

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GetYerAngie

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Roll73
A Bigger Bang's been out for 10 odd years - Crosseyed Heart for a couple of months.

I've listened to CH at least 3 times as much in the last month as I have ABB in 10 years.

This isn't a maths question - just an observation. Either that's reason to be hopeful or to think - should they even bother?

Fine that you enjoy Crosseyed Heart - which I have listened to three or four times. It's not a bad album, but it suffers from Keith's limitations as a vocalist. For decades his vocal-tracks has been the weakest spots. A whole record featuring Keith is simply way too much. ABB was uneven but tops Crosseyed Heart in every aspect, even Keith's songs on ABB are better. I have heard ABB hundres of times.
I for one will look forward to the new album"

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nankerphlege
And for crying out loud... Record in Analog and kill anyone who attempts mass compression on the album.

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Hairball
You know somethings wrong with ABB when even Keith says he doesn't like it,

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RoughJusticeOnYa

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Hairball
You know somethings wrong with ABB when even Keith says he doesn't like it,

Hairball (or anyone), please tell me when & where he said such a thing?!
It's the first time I hear this to be attributred to Keith.
I'm relaay curious for the (exact) quote, its references & circumstances (time, context).

Thx for y'r feedback!

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DandelionPowderman

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RoughJusticeOnYa

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Hairball
You know somethings wrong with ABB when even Keith says he doesn't like it,

Hairball (or anyone), please tell me when & where he said such a thing?!
It's the first time I hear this to be attributred to Keith.
I'm relaay curious for the (exact) quote, its references & circumstances (time, context).

Thx for y'r feedback!

It was a recent interview. He only said he didn't like the flow of it, though. He prefers B2B

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Turner68

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DandelionPowderman

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RoughJusticeOnYa

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Hairball
You know somethings wrong with ABB when even Keith says he doesn't like it,

Hairball (or anyone), please tell me when & where he said such a thing?!
It's the first time I hear this to be attributred to Keith.
I'm relaay curious for the (exact) quote, its references & circumstances (time, context).

Thx for y'r feedback!

It was a recent interview. He only said he didn't like the flow of it, though. He prefers B2B

i believe it was in the interview with Rolling Stone for their cover story on him.

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mr_dja
Note: I originally posted this in the Crosseyed Heart thread but realized later that it probably is more appropriate in this thread. Apologies if it seems like it has "just popped up out of nowhere"!

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Doxa

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mr_dja



I've heard Keith say that it's his job to inspire Mick.

I think you hit the nail here. The reason for the downhill for Stones music in quality and quantity for the last 35 years or so: Keith just doesn't inspire Mick any longer. I think the problem was obvious by the time of making EMOTIONAL RSECUE but it could be that the hailed EXILE was teh last time The Glimmer Twins had a creative respect towards each other - or Mick was actually paying attention into what Keith did,and being even excited about it.

Usually this is seen that the reason is that Mick and Keith had developed very different tastes for what they consider good music; Mick being a trend follower, and Keith a rootsman (which is to say: Keith creatively stopped to the musical premises of EXILE, Mick not). That partly is true, but the style or a genre of music is not the whole point: the question is has someone something to say, that is, can one form inspiring, great music from a given genre? If one digs blues or country that alone will not constitute great, authentic music - something the Stones actually did during their heyday (The Big Four), and excelled and completed in EXILE.

So if we consider this from Mick's point of view - not popular here - after EXILE or so Keith's music just weren't exciting for him - just repitive and seemingly going downhill in quality (and in quantity as well). And remember: Mick had seen what this man once was - how great, unique, fresh stuff he could have come up with. But he also saw and understood the change in creativity. As the 70's go further, it was clear that there were no any longer any gimmesheltesr, honkytonkwomens or streetfightingmans to be born. There were half-baked riffs saying the same thing over and again, the recording processes just taking longer and longer, when a certain right 'feel' was waited to be come, and the result of all that time, money and drugs wasted would be something as mind-blowing as "Dance Little Sister".

I don't think the music in CROSSEYED HEART means much to Jagger (or, like hoped here, "open his eyes"). I guess for him it is stuff he has seen Keith doing for decades (he probably knows this man musically better than anyone else). He once commented TALK IS CHEAP or MAIN OFFENDER by a telling remark that it sounds the same as the half-finished songs Keith does for the Stones. Probably he is just pleased that Keith get it out by himself and he doesn't need to bother himself with it...

It is no any wonder that their most fruitful colloboration of the last decades happens to be the one on which Keith made his contribution almost 40 years earlier - Jagger sounds surprisingly inspired in "Plundered My Soul", and probably put more effort into it than to any Keith song for ages.

So this was just some food for thought to those who see the artistic downhill of the Stones solely as a fault of Mick Jagger, and if Keith had more say on things, Mick would listen him more, etc the things would have been better or even so great again. Bullshit. The guy just stopped delivering the goods. It takes two to a tango..

- Doxa

Interesting that you give me credit for "hitting the nail on the head" with something I didn't even say. It's me paraphrasing Keith. Great job taking that line and using it as your basis to start yet another rant on how Keith "just stopped delivering the goods".

You apparently missed my line (right after the one you quoted as your starting point) "Imagine if Mick & Keith both would allow each other the time to inspire themselves". You can blame Keith all you want. That's your opinion and you're more than entitled to it. Presenting it as fact doesn't turn it into a fact. It's still just an opinion. Kind of like it's my opinion that, to be honest, the blame probably lies on all four of the Stones more than it does on any one of them.

You (and others) may want to say it's Keith's fault for not being able to deliver the goods. Someone else says it's Jagger's fault for not realizing that "half-baked riffs" and "half-finished songs" are potentially the starting points for the next classic song. Maybe it's Charlie's fault for not questioning why they're overdubbing onto Mick's demos and calling them Rolling Stones tracks. Maybe it's Ronnie's fault for not building a bridge between MJ & KR and forcing them to actually use the bridge from time to time.

You may be right. Possibly KR did stop delivering the goods. Did it ever cross your mind that it's also possible that MJ may have quit receiving the goods? I've seen plenty of houses where the mail or the daily paper still gets delivered long after the residents leave. Who's to say that one of those envelopes doesn't contain a winning contest notification? Just because the envelope is never opened doesn't mean it never contained a winning ticket.

Two to tango indeed.

Peace,
Mr DJA

PS -> Apologies to all for my participation in the hijacking of this thread. Unfortunately the side conversation has become more active than the original topic. I'll try to stay more on topic in the future.

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DandelionPowderman

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RoughJusticeOnYa

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Hairball
You know somethings wrong with ABB when even Keith says he doesn't like it,

Hairball (or anyone), please tell me when & where he said such a thing?!
It's the first time I hear this to be attributred to Keith.
I'm relaay curious for the (exact) quote, its references & circumstances (time, context).

Thx for y'r feedback!

It was a recent interview. He only said he didn't like the flow of it, though. He prefers B2B

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Turner68

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mr_dja

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Doxa

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mr_dja

I didn't read Doxa's post the way you did. As I understand it, Doxa feels (incorrectly, IMO) that people are blaming Mick for the creative decline of the Stones and is saying that Mick and Keith bear equal responsibility. I agree with this, although it's not exactly earth-shattering to point out that the two creative forces in the band are both responsible, nor do i believe anyone really believes that mick is the sole reason the band has stopped being a creative force.

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GasLightStreet

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Roll73
A Bigger Bang's been out for 10 odd years - Crosseyed Heart for a couple of months.

I've listened to CH at least 3 times as much in the last month as I have ABB in 10 years.

This isn't a maths question - just an observation. Either that's reason to be hopeful or to think - should they even bother?

Huh? What is a "maths"?

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DandelionPowderman
Also, Doxa's post is (albeit excellently subtle) a slap in the face to all of us who love SG, ER, TY and Undercover. 

He's got a point, though, but he should know that A LOT of the material on SF and Exile is from 1968-1970. So, if the inspiration wore thin it started even earlier than after the Exile sessions. 

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Turner68

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DandelionPowderman
Also, Doxa's post is (albeit excellently subtle) a slap in the face to all of us who love SG, ER, TY and Undercover. 

He's got a point, though, but he should know that A LOT of the material on SF and Exile is from 1968-1970. So, if the inspiration wore thin it started even earlier than after the Exile sessions. 

I don't see stating an opinion about the Rolling Stones as a slap in the face of any board member. When I say I don't like Dirty Work or I think "Love is Strong" is stones by numbers I certainly don't mean to belittle someone else's opinion.

It's just an opinion about music and, in the case of Doxa's post, speculation about what might have caused what many (myself included) feel has been the decline of the band's creative energies.

A slap in the face would be something quite different.

The great mystery, to me, of the Stones is a double sided coin - how have they kept doing it so long, and yet at the same time how/why did they lose the magic that made them relevant for nearly 20 years? It seems natural and normal to speculate about it on a fan board, especially in the run up to a new album.

Mick and Keith hold equal responsibility for the success or failure of the songwriting in the band - how is that even controversial?

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Hairball
Keith has made clear that ALL of Micks solo albums/projects mean very little to him, if anything at all (see GODDESS for example).