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Mick is not dead..
Doors fans just want to hear their heroes play. What's wrong with that?
Densmore participated on reunion gigs. After he got tinnitus he became more hostile to the project...
Who says that the Doors fans didn't attend the gigs? They sure did.
And countless other bands have done it. Deep Purple, Black Sabbath etc.
J. Geils band without J. Geils
But these bands at least did not recrute look-alikes or sound-alikes of their original singers. And they recorded new material. Some you can replace, some you can´t. Jim Morrison is one of them,the other is Mick Jagger.
dude again this guy sounded/looked like that in the cult for a decade before he did anything with the doors and the cult was very successful
While some of the regrouping projects work and some don't you can't blame these guys for trying to make a living and doing so with whatever method they can. I say meh on the risk of destroying legacies since all those original records are there to stand on their own.
queen always bills themselves as QUEEN+ (insert singer). they have said queen will always be just the 4 guys who started it so the new guys get added as the +
that movie is more like a hollywood version of how things were not reality
can't watch it at work but who is singing? ever person who sang with manzarek and kreiger the last 15 years were in successful bands before they sang any doors tunes
Dave Brock who was in a tribute act called "Wild Child"....
wow I missed them having that guy. never knew that
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: OT: John Densmore's The Doors Unhinged-Credibility Issues
Posted by:
swimtothemoon
()
Date: September 1, 2015 03:58
It must have been difficult trying to find a singer who was not a Morrison mimic. yet was an artist whom had his own style and could do justice to the tunes Jim and The Doors made famous.
I'm not so sure Jim would have minded his old friends making some money on
the Doors legacy. After all they were all responsible for the distinctive doors
sound and Jim was no longer available at no fault of the other members.
I'm not so sure Jim would have minded his old friends making some money on
the Doors legacy. After all they were all responsible for the distinctive doors
sound and Jim was no longer available at no fault of the other members.
Re: OT: John Densmore's The Doors Unhinged-Credibility Issues
Posted by:
HMS
()
Date: September 1, 2015 12:31
People are strange. Would you Stones-fans accept a Mick-Jagger look-alike with similar voice as new frontman of the Stones? So why do you expect Doors-fans to do so?
The Doors died with Jim.
The Doors died with Jim.
Re: OT: John Densmore's The Doors Unhinged-Credibility Issues
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: September 1, 2015 13:05
Quote
HMS
People are strange. Would you Stones-fans accept a Mick-Jagger look-alike with similar voice as new frontman of the Stones? So why do you expect Doors-fans to do so?
The Doors died with Jim.
Mick is not dead..
Doors fans just want to hear their heroes play. What's wrong with that?
Re: OT: John Densmore's The Doors Unhinged-Credibility Issues
Posted by:
HMS
()
Date: September 1, 2015 13:13
You can´t raise the dead. What´s gone is gone forever. Jim was 80% of The Doors, there was no sense for Manzarek-Krieger to go on calling themselves "Doors" or "Doors Of The 21st Century". Most Doors-Fans will have refused to attend the concerts anyway. To reactivate The Doors was a crying shame and I totally understand Densmore for not joining this comedy-act.
Re: OT: John Densmore's The Doors Unhinged-Credibility Issues
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: September 1, 2015 13:25
Quote
HMS
You can´t raise the dead. What´s gone is gone forever. Jim was 80% of The Doors, there was no sense for Manzarek-Krieger to go on calling themselves "Doors" or "Doors Of The 21st Century". Most Doors-Fans will have refused to attend the concerts anyway. To reactivate The Doors was a crying shame and I totally understand Densmore for not joining this comedy-act.
Densmore participated on reunion gigs. After he got tinnitus he became more hostile to the project...
Who says that the Doors fans didn't attend the gigs? They sure did.
Re: OT: John Densmore's The Doors Unhinged-Credibility Issues
Posted by:
HMS
()
Date: September 1, 2015 13:53
I guess Doors-Fans who saw the Doors with Jim rather stayed at home for understandable reasons. People who became fans after Jim´s death might have attended the gigs, but could have been going to one of the countless cover-bands as well. Manzarek/Krieger only took the chance of making some money, because their individual careers after The Doors failed. It was the money that brought this useless reincarnation on stage, not the music, the spirit of Jim or the fans, only the money. Better seeing a tribute-band doing it for the love of the music than two aged original members doing it obviously for the money.
Re: OT: John Densmore's The Doors Unhinged-Credibility Issues
Posted by:
nightskyman
()
Date: September 1, 2015 15:14
To revise my previous statement, it seems a little silly to reproduce the Doors sound without Jim Morrison.
But the Grateful Dead are doing so without Jerry Garcia.
But the Grateful Dead are doing so without Jerry Garcia.
Re: OT: John Densmore's The Doors Unhinged-Credibility Issues
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: September 1, 2015 15:21
Quote
nightskyman
To revise my previous statement, it seems a little silly to reproduce the Doors sound without Jim Morrison.
But the Grateful Dead are doing so without Jerry Garcia.
And countless other bands have done it. Deep Purple, Black Sabbath etc.
Re: OT: John Densmore's The Doors Unhinged-Credibility Issues
Posted by:
reg thorpe
()
Date: September 1, 2015 16:27
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
nightskyman
To revise my previous statement, it seems a little silly to reproduce the Doors sound without Jim Morrison.
But the Grateful Dead are doing so without Jerry Garcia.
And countless other bands have done it. Deep Purple, Black Sabbath etc.
J. Geils band without J. Geils
Re: OT: John Densmore's The Doors Unhinged-Credibility Issues
Posted by:
HMS
()
Date: September 1, 2015 19:13
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
nightskyman
To revise my previous statement, it seems a little silly to reproduce the Doors sound without Jim Morrison.
But the Grateful Dead are doing so without Jerry Garcia.
And countless other bands have done it. Deep Purple, Black Sabbath etc.
But these bands at least did not recrute look-alikes or sound-alikes of their original singers. And they recorded new material. Some you can replace, some you can´t. Jim Morrison is one of them,the other is Mick Jagger.
Re: OT: John Densmore's The Doors Unhinged-Credibility Issues
Posted by:
keefriffhard4life
()
Date: September 1, 2015 19:32
Quote
HMSQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
nightskyman
To revise my previous statement, it seems a little silly to reproduce the Doors sound without Jim Morrison.
But the Grateful Dead are doing so without Jerry Garcia.
And countless other bands have done it. Deep Purple, Black Sabbath etc.
But these bands at least did not recrute look-alikes or sound-alikes of their original singers. And they recorded new material. Some you can replace, some you can´t. Jim Morrison is one of them,the other is Mick Jagger.
dude again this guy sounded/looked like that in the cult for a decade before he did anything with the doors and the cult was very successful
Re: OT: John Densmore's The Doors Unhinged-Credibility Issues
Posted by:
Naturalust
()
Date: September 1, 2015 19:50
Quote
keefriffhard4lifeQuote
HMSQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
nightskyman
To revise my previous statement, it seems a little silly to reproduce the Doors sound without Jim Morrison.
But the Grateful Dead are doing so without Jerry Garcia.
And countless other bands have done it. Deep Purple, Black Sabbath etc.
But these bands at least did not recrute look-alikes or sound-alikes of their original singers. And they recorded new material. Some you can replace, some you can´t. Jim Morrison is one of them,the other is Mick Jagger.
dude again this guy sounded/looked like that in the cult for a decade before he did anything with the doors and the cult was very successful
While some of the regrouping projects work and some don't you can't blame these guys for trying to make a living and doing so with whatever method they can. I say meh on the risk of destroying legacies since all those original records are there to stand on their own.
Re: OT: John Densmore's The Doors Unhinged-Credibility Issues
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: September 1, 2015 22:10
Quote
NaturalustQuote
keefriffhard4lifeQuote
HMSQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
nightskyman
To revise my previous statement, it seems a little silly to reproduce the Doors sound without Jim Morrison.
But the Grateful Dead are doing so without Jerry Garcia.
And countless other bands have done it. Deep Purple, Black Sabbath etc.
But these bands at least did not recrute look-alikes or sound-alikes of their original singers. And they recorded new material. Some you can replace, some you can´t. Jim Morrison is one of them,the other is Mick Jagger.
dude again this guy sounded/looked like that in the cult for a decade before he did anything with the doors and the cult was very successful
While some of the regrouping projects work and some don't you can't blame these guys for trying to make a living and doing so with whatever method they can. I say meh on the risk of destroying legacies since all those original records are there to stand on their own.
Re: OT: John Densmore's The Doors Unhinged-Credibility Issues
Posted by:
DoomandGloom
()
Date: September 1, 2015 22:39
Suprisingly I have an opinion on the post Doors Doors. In the 70's Ray milked it, he went as far as to go along with the Jim is alive crap saying stuff like if anyone could manage it Jim could. Back then many of us Doors worshipers felt Ray was the worst of the worst as far as exploiting his pal. Robbie as Grace Slick said is the musicial brains in the band and as a quartet they were all spectacular visionaries who over and over again tried to break the boundries of song form while still qouting artists from ages ago. I read John's first book and he seemed pretty humble, like a guy who happened onto something but that is far from true. His space and dynamics were unpreidented in rock. Like Jimmy Page they got caught in the rut of losing their music's voice and then being too arrogent to move on to other creative endevors that were notable. Nothing will ever take away what they once did which was to be the most outragous and dangerous pop group the world could imagine.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-09-01 22:40 by DoomandGloom.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015-09-01 22:40 by DoomandGloom.
Re: OT: John Densmore's The Doors Unhinged-Credibility Issues
Posted by:
Toxic34
()
Date: September 1, 2015 22:43
These will likely be my personal final words on this particular issue. You may remember that before the famous '68 European tour, Jim went to the band and told them he was about to quit. He even specifically said. "I'm out. Get another singer." This was also one of the 2 moments he said he was on the urge of a nervous breakdown. The band of course talked him into staying at least 6 more months, and the issue never really came up again.
Like I've said, no one really knows what his opinions or desires for things would've been had he not died in Paris, not even Ray, Robby or John could fully know. But at this point in his life, he was clearly not averse to the idea of the other continuing without him. He clearly did not think of this as an absolutely inviolable set up that should never be tinkered with. Therefore, he wouldn't have cared about Other Voices and Full Circle, and it's even quite possible he wouldn't have cared for Ray and Robby touring as The Doors of the 21st Century. If anything, he would've been upset at the friction it caused, and how John's crusade was, if anything, actually tarnishing the band's legacy rather than preserving it. (For those who complain about the bassist and Ray's keyboard, the L.A. Woman tour would've done the same thing. Ray wanted his left hand free so he could do more jamming, and he got his wish. And he played better than ever, much like how Robby has only improved with age)
The thing is, not every band is like The Beatles, The Stones, Led Zeppelin, Aerosmith and Nirvana. Some bands are perfectly able to withstand personnel changes, others can't. It's especially foolhardy to apply this standard to Kiss. Kiss is not remotely like any other band in the world. More people know the Demon, the Starchild, the Space Ace and the Catman than they know Paul, Gene, Ace and Peter. Kiss can easily survive for another century with absolutely none of the founding members.
And for the statement that "most Doors fans never went to Ray and Robby's shows," here's the thing. Ray and Robby's tours were very small-scale (small batches of dates after 2003 and 2004, in clubs/ballrooms/theaters/performing arts centers for reasonable ticket prices), with precious little advertising. Part of it is because people simply didn't know they were in town. And those that did more often went to the shows, though very few sold out. Again, using Kiss, here's the truth. Kiss fans are a huge group. The vast majority of Kiss fans continue to go to the shows and sell out arenas and amphitheaters around the world. The group of Kiss fans that won't accept anything other than the original lineup and say that Paul and Gene are money-grubbing whores who have no standards or morals are a minority, yet they make up the majority of Kiss fans on the Internet. They especially won't take into consideration that if anyone disrespected the band, it was Ace and Peter, for letting their skills rust and diminish to the point that current guitarist Tommy Thayer had to teach them all over again, for asking for more money despite the fact they weren't brought back as partners/collaborators, for flouting every condition in their employment contracts, and for refusing to take any responsibility for how they ultimately ended up.
In the end, of course. All that matters is the music and the legacy. These will always remain and never be sullied, regardless of any future commercial use, touring, books, films and so on. Nothing will ever change what all this means. After all, My Generation doesn't lose meaning or become worthless because a commercial for sneakers has it.
Like I've said, no one really knows what his opinions or desires for things would've been had he not died in Paris, not even Ray, Robby or John could fully know. But at this point in his life, he was clearly not averse to the idea of the other continuing without him. He clearly did not think of this as an absolutely inviolable set up that should never be tinkered with. Therefore, he wouldn't have cared about Other Voices and Full Circle, and it's even quite possible he wouldn't have cared for Ray and Robby touring as The Doors of the 21st Century. If anything, he would've been upset at the friction it caused, and how John's crusade was, if anything, actually tarnishing the band's legacy rather than preserving it. (For those who complain about the bassist and Ray's keyboard, the L.A. Woman tour would've done the same thing. Ray wanted his left hand free so he could do more jamming, and he got his wish. And he played better than ever, much like how Robby has only improved with age)
The thing is, not every band is like The Beatles, The Stones, Led Zeppelin, Aerosmith and Nirvana. Some bands are perfectly able to withstand personnel changes, others can't. It's especially foolhardy to apply this standard to Kiss. Kiss is not remotely like any other band in the world. More people know the Demon, the Starchild, the Space Ace and the Catman than they know Paul, Gene, Ace and Peter. Kiss can easily survive for another century with absolutely none of the founding members.
And for the statement that "most Doors fans never went to Ray and Robby's shows," here's the thing. Ray and Robby's tours were very small-scale (small batches of dates after 2003 and 2004, in clubs/ballrooms/theaters/performing arts centers for reasonable ticket prices), with precious little advertising. Part of it is because people simply didn't know they were in town. And those that did more often went to the shows, though very few sold out. Again, using Kiss, here's the truth. Kiss fans are a huge group. The vast majority of Kiss fans continue to go to the shows and sell out arenas and amphitheaters around the world. The group of Kiss fans that won't accept anything other than the original lineup and say that Paul and Gene are money-grubbing whores who have no standards or morals are a minority, yet they make up the majority of Kiss fans on the Internet. They especially won't take into consideration that if anyone disrespected the band, it was Ace and Peter, for letting their skills rust and diminish to the point that current guitarist Tommy Thayer had to teach them all over again, for asking for more money despite the fact they weren't brought back as partners/collaborators, for flouting every condition in their employment contracts, and for refusing to take any responsibility for how they ultimately ended up.
In the end, of course. All that matters is the music and the legacy. These will always remain and never be sullied, regardless of any future commercial use, touring, books, films and so on. Nothing will ever change what all this means. After all, My Generation doesn't lose meaning or become worthless because a commercial for sneakers has it.
Re: OT: John Densmore's The Doors Unhinged-Credibility Issues
Posted by:
djgab
()
Date: September 1, 2015 23:09
Queen did the same, didn't they ?
I think the good question could be :"did the musician enjoy playing together and did the audience enjoy the show ?"
if the vibes are good, why not ?
I think the good question could be :"did the musician enjoy playing together and did the audience enjoy the show ?"
if the vibes are good, why not ?
Re: OT: John Densmore's The Doors Unhinged-Credibility Issues
Posted by:
swimtothemoon
()
Date: September 1, 2015 23:39
Jim was such a huge personality that it is often forgotten how important both
Robbie and Ray were to the Doors music and success. Naturalist was correct to
say those studio albums from 1967 to 1971 are the Doors legacy and they
will remain so long after the musics over. The true shame is the Oliver Stone
movie that made Morrison out to be a buffoon. No doubt some of those
outrageous incidents happened but it certainly was not constant as was portrayed
In the film. Due to this film, this may be how Jim is remembered. Similar to
Mr. Stones's JFK film were a number of revelations were simply not true. Unfortunately an audience along with future generations tend to view these films as fact.
Robbie and Ray were to the Doors music and success. Naturalist was correct to
say those studio albums from 1967 to 1971 are the Doors legacy and they
will remain so long after the musics over. The true shame is the Oliver Stone
movie that made Morrison out to be a buffoon. No doubt some of those
outrageous incidents happened but it certainly was not constant as was portrayed
In the film. Due to this film, this may be how Jim is remembered. Similar to
Mr. Stones's JFK film were a number of revelations were simply not true. Unfortunately an audience along with future generations tend to view these films as fact.
Re: OT: John Densmore's The Doors Unhinged-Credibility Issues
Posted by:
djgab
()
Date: September 2, 2015 00:09
I saw the Olivier Stone's movie as a kid and I did not like at all the Jim character ...
it took me years to realize how good in fact the Doors are.
it took me years to realize how good in fact the Doors are.
Re: OT: John Densmore's The Doors Unhinged-Credibility Issues
Posted by:
swimtothemoon
()
Date: September 2, 2015 04:07
I agree he was not likable in the movie. Actually slightly nausiating to watch when they poured on the excess.
Re: OT: John Densmore's The Doors Unhinged-Credibility Issues
Posted by:
keefriffhard4life
()
Date: September 2, 2015 18:23
Quote
djgab
Queen did the same, didn't they ?
I think the good question could be :"did the musician enjoy playing together and did the audience enjoy the show ?"
if the vibes are good, why not ?
queen always bills themselves as QUEEN+ (insert singer). they have said queen will always be just the 4 guys who started it so the new guys get added as the +
Re: OT: John Densmore's The Doors Unhinged-Credibility Issues
Posted by:
keefriffhard4life
()
Date: September 2, 2015 18:25
Quote
djgab
I saw the Olivier Stone's movie as a kid and I did not like at all the Jim character ...
it took me years to realize how good in fact the Doors are.
that movie is more like a hollywood version of how things were not reality
Re: OT: John Densmore's The Doors Unhinged-Credibility Issues
Posted by:
watts fan
()
Date: September 2, 2015 18:39
I saw Ray & Robby with Ian in 2003. I'm glad I got to see them, but it was a little hokey -- Ray rambling on & on, preaching his Gospel According to St. Jimbo, and the high-fiving bros around me going on about how the band was as good as they were in 1968 (sound familiar?). Ray was playing a very modern-sounding keyboard. Bad move - should've toured with a Vox Continental.
I dug the Vh1 Storytellers episode from 2001, with the 3 surviving members playing their asses off on period-correct equipment.
No disrespect to Ty Dennis, but he could not capture the feel of Densmore's drumming. John's contributions were just as important as the other 3, and I believe that Jim would agree with that.
I dug the Vh1 Storytellers episode from 2001, with the 3 surviving members playing their asses off on period-correct equipment.
No disrespect to Ty Dennis, but he could not capture the feel of Densmore's drumming. John's contributions were just as important as the other 3, and I believe that Jim would agree with that.
Re: OT: John Densmore's The Doors Unhinged-Credibility Issues
Posted by:
batcave
()
Date: September 4, 2015 06:46
This is just sad. Its one thing for Ray and Robbie to go out and play the old hits for fans, but to have what can only be called a second rate Morrison tribute singer to front them was pretty pathetic.
Imagine if Mick died and the Stones went out on tour with the lead singer of the Blushing Brides?
video: [youtu.be]
Imagine if Mick died and the Stones went out on tour with the lead singer of the Blushing Brides?
video: [youtu.be]
Re: OT: John Densmore's The Doors Unhinged-Credibility Issues
Posted by:
keefriffhard4life
()
Date: September 4, 2015 07:08
Quote
batcave
This is just sad. Its one thing for Ray and Robbie to go out and play the old hits for fans, but to have what can only be called a second rate Morrison tribute singer to front them was pretty pathetic.
Imagine if Mick died and the Stones went out on tour with the lead singer of the Blushing Brides?
video: [youtu.be]
can't watch it at work but who is singing? ever person who sang with manzarek and kreiger the last 15 years were in successful bands before they sang any doors tunes
Re: OT: John Densmore's The Doors Unhinged-Credibility Issues
Posted by:
batcave
()
Date: September 4, 2015 07:28
Quote
keefriffhard4lifeQuote
batcave
This is just sad. Its one thing for Ray and Robbie to go out and play the old hits for fans, but to have what can only be called a second rate Morrison tribute singer to front them was pretty pathetic.
Imagine if Mick died and the Stones went out on tour with the lead singer of the Blushing Brides?
video: [youtu.be]
can't watch it at work but who is singing? ever person who sang with manzarek and kreiger the last 15 years were in successful bands before they sang any doors tunes
Dave Brock who was in a tribute act called "Wild Child"....
Re: OT: John Densmore's The Doors Unhinged-Credibility Issues
Posted by:
keefriffhard4life
()
Date: September 4, 2015 07:53
Quote
batcaveQuote
keefriffhard4lifeQuote
batcave
This is just sad. Its one thing for Ray and Robbie to go out and play the old hits for fans, but to have what can only be called a second rate Morrison tribute singer to front them was pretty pathetic.
Imagine if Mick died and the Stones went out on tour with the lead singer of the Blushing Brides?
video: [youtu.be]
can't watch it at work but who is singing? ever person who sang with manzarek and kreiger the last 15 years were in successful bands before they sang any doors tunes
Dave Brock who was in a tribute act called "Wild Child"....
wow I missed them having that guy. never knew that
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